The perception of excellence.

[JeffSjo]

I've been thinking about excellence for a while. It's not that I have any excellence to boast of that I can think of, but I'm happy to say that my conscience is clear as it pertains to TWI and my former splinter group. But I know that for myself that boasting about my own excellence is often followed by me being put in a place with more humility. I like when relearning this lesson is easy, but some of the times where it has been hard for me to relearn this make for some petty fun stories.

I've been aware from my early days with TWI that it was common for Wierwille and Martindale to boast of their own excellence. And I was aware to that one of the methods of teaching people and leading them was to convince their followers of their own excellence. These people seemed to become committed followers IMO. And of course I remember Wierwille controlling people by telling them that they would be nothing without him. Martindale's own big mouth about the Greasespot statement was calculated IMO to play once again on their own perceived debt to TWI and this perception of excellence that was part of the bread and butter of TWI control, and the related sentiment of, without us you will be nothing, as well.

But the thing is, that while my former splinter group puffed people up in the same manner, I was often pointing out that for their own perception of excellence that they were in reality only mediocre or even comical. They did not seem to like this! But as I was trying to keep them in a healthier form of reality than the one that Barnard was leading them into, I fear I only managed to earn his hatred.

I can tell you all, that after a while it was kind of sad in this respect. I found bursting their bubble became like shooting fish in a barrel, I mean all too easy. But every darn time Barnard would tell them how great he was, or convince them once again how great they were and how bad I was. It was easy to take them down a notch, but they would over and over again climb to the great heights that Barnard convinced them to live in. That is as long as they in every respect give him the preeminence of course. Once one of his thugs and his wife brought Barnard a loaf of bread and a bottle of wine, and Barnard reproved them for bringing him the bread and the wine, because as the Apostle, Barnard provided the "bread and the wine." You see, he told them they were stepping out of line because of Barnard's exalted position. This same thug moved my wife and son out of my house and told me that I was no longer welcome at fellowship until this shameful situation was resolved.

I think that Barnard teaches people to be just as harmfully and stupidly exalted as he is. That is as long as they remember to kiss his butt in almost every way. Otherwise he will be willing to destroy what he himself built in them and made them.

Now I find that seeing TWI perceptions of excellence for what they really are. Those perceptions of excellence that are built on the same perceptions of excellence that Wierwille led people into tend to not be the reality. They are just unrealistic because what they were in truth was one of Wierwille's main carrots in his manipulation of people. Of course the "stick" that went along with the "carrot" sometimes came out as people being told that without them they would end up as "greasespots" or some such thing.

Sometimes now I have to remind myself that the easy thing, to take them down a notch, is just a reflex on my part. I remind myself to think and pray. Reflexes sometimes backfire and can do more harm than good.

[Bolshevik]

It's a life of extremes. One day you're having smoke blown up you're arse, (or loved bombed), the next day, face melted, the next day, praised for renewing your mind and growing, the next day reduced to nothing. Rinse, repeat.

I think people learn to enjoy this lifestyle, if they didn't already. It's rewards at the bema one day and Armageddon the next. Even-keeled is not a description for a wayfer. Chaos addiction, maybe.

[JeffSjo]

What you say Bolshevik sounds like some kind of addiction.

Darn near an addiction to a hallucinogen. But usually the addicts don't destroy folks' lives when they are told that they were just hallucinating! Do they?

So TWI and my former splinter is actually worse than a hallucinogenic addiction.

[Jim]

Who is Barnard?

As to perfection, we've had about 20 years of non-stop documentation of pretty much how imperfect TWI leadership has been. It would appear that virtually all of the TWI "followers" at least tried to live a more Christian life than the high level leadership. God will ultimately be the judge.

Personally, I am acutely aware of how imperfect I am on many levels. Convincing yourself you are perfect when you are not is a lie. Realizing your imperfections gives you the opportunity to correct your errors.

[potato]

Chaos addiction, maybe.

or the frog just gets so used to the hot water it doesn't realize when it starts to boil. maybe some people loved it for the high (I think my ex did) but most of us didn't didn't have an addiction. we just learned to keep our heads low to survive.

[JeffSjo]

Who is Barnard?

As to perfection, we've had about 20 years of non-stop documentation of pretty much how imperfect TWI leadership has been. It would appear that virtually all of the TWI "followers" at least tried to live a more Christian life than the high level leadership. God will ultimately be the judge.

Personally, I am acutely aware of how imperfect I am on many levels. Convincing yourself you are perfect when you are not is a lie. Realizing your imperfections gives you the opportunity to correct your errors.

Hi Jim,

Barnard is a 14th Corps grad who runs my former splinter group in Minnesota. I lived in and for that group for about fifteen years and had a pretty hard time of it, it seems. I recently quoted a number of things about that group; River Road Fellowship; and put it together in the "My Story" section.

It looks to me like TWI leadership managed to deal with their own sins completely and utterly disasterously while managing to use the bible to sell many people on a number of myths and misperceptions.

(added in editing)

Hi Potato!

Edited February 16, 2009 by JeffSjo

[Bolshevik]

Why would a frog be in a pot? Is it laying eggs?

[waysider]

Why would a frog be in a pot? Is it laying eggs?

The frog was lured into the pot while on a quest for better lily pads.

[Bolshevik]

ah yes, "Your pad or mine?"

then they lay eggs?

[potato]

ah yes, "Your pad or mine?"

then they lay eggs?

no, then resting in the nice cool water, the burner is turned on. the heat gradually rises until the frog is boiled to death without a struggle, not having noticed the danger it was in until it was too late.

on the other hand, if you toss a frog into boiling water it'll do it's best to escape in the seconds of life before it boils to death.

note: I haven't tested this. snopes (http://www.snopes.com/critters/wild/frogboil.asp) reports the fable is not true, but although it is false it aptly illustrates what happens when things change from good to horrific over time, instead of just being visibly horrific from the get-go.

Edited February 16, 2009 by potato

[Bolshevik]

sooo,

the way was once on okay organization? Then, something went wrong?

[potato]

sooo,

the way was once on okay organization? Then, something went wrong?

sigh.

ok, l thought you were once in twi. were you not? I don't understand your line of questioning. you come across as ignorant, or baiting. which?

[Bolshevik]

. . .

I don't understand your line of questioning. you come across as ignorant, or baiting. which?

hmm . . . let's go with . . . .both I guess..

I don't understand why people joined twi. I don't understand why they point fingers so much at a handful of people. Why they play dumb, why they lie about not knowing twi had problems . . . so and so forth.

Edited February 17, 2009 by Bolshevik

[waysider]

hmm . . . let's go with . . . .both I guess..

I don't understand why people joined twi. I don't understand why they point fingers so much at a handful of people. Why they play dumb, why they lie about not knowing twi had problems . . . so and so forth.

If they don't admit that TWI had problems, they can excuse themselves from being duped like the rest of us.

[Bolshevik]

duped? but there were warnings? it's like drugs, people know they shouldn't, but they do. right?

[potato]

duped? but there were warnings? it's like drugs, people know they shouldn't, but they do. right?

so, you weren't ever "in"? were you a recruit that wouldn't commit?

[waysider]

duped? but there were warnings? it's like drugs, people know they shouldn't, but they do. right?

No. No warnings. There was no sense that it was something we shouldn't be doing. In fact, it seemed like the only right thing to do in a world that was changing at break-neck speed all around us. Society was in the midst of a chaotic upheaval. There was a very unpopular war going on. Cultural mores were being redefined at an unprecedented rate. Everything was very loose and spontaneous at the local levels. It's probably hard for you, being born into it, to comprehend because the organization you know and the one many of us remember from the 1970s are like night and day. (At least on a superficial level)

Edited February 17, 2009 by waysider

[Bolshevik]

that's what they tell me.

[potato]

that's what they tell me.

ok, I had to go back and read some of your posts, because I seriously don't get your line of questioning. you were on staff, you were involved during the lcm trainwreck. yeah, it's unbelievable that anyone would join during those years. I think I got involved before what became known as "the fog years", but only superficially. it was after I accidentally married someone with a personality disorder that I got sucked into the twi machine. I guess you maintain disbelief that people get lured into twi's inner circle of hell, like a pedophile luring a child with a tale of a lost puppy, but yeah, people are that naive, or they're willing to ignore the warning signs because IT'S A LOST PUPPY FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!

[JeffSjo]

In order to maintain their self-deception my former splinter group had to destroy anyone that had an opinion different that the leader. Not just myself, but before I left their were five divorces among the believers. I remember another man who was willing to stand up to Barnard. Even though nobody was foolish enough to say to him that Barnard was the cause of his divorce he knew darn well who moved his wife to file for divorce. This happened about a year before I was kicked out I think. I'm sad that until after my expulsion I never really talked to this man to hear what they did to him. He told me later that he cried every night of his night security job for about one year during and after his divorce.

All the while Barnard was saying things to the believers like the locals were blessed by God just because we were around. and the youngest seem easiest to believe the false estimations of themselves that Barnard has taught them.

The young believers are programed to believe that Barnard has made them world-beaters. But Barnard is best at crushing people whose lives are in his control.

Once I saw him lying on his back in a new tent that let him look up at the stars through a nylon mesh. Two married women lied next to him with their heads on either shoulder. And the two gals' husbands had to stand there and watch this. One was the wife of the thug who moved my wife out of my house and the other was the wife of the man whose oldest daughter came to twig and said,"I'm married to the Christ in Victor." This man's wife was the one who told him that Barnard was his daughters' real father, being their father in the Word and all. Of course for some stange reason both men didn't seem to mind what happened to me. All they have to do IMO is to continue to let Barnard castrate them. But then Barnard is sure to let each one know that they are somebody now, thanks to him of course. IMO this is strictly undeserved excellence. But they sure seem to be willing to believe they are big men now, thanks to Barnard rescuing them from the Way Internationals mistakes, and being as he bills himself as Wierwille's true son.

[Jim]

I think I'm going to be sick...

[Bolshevik]

This Barnard believes he is vpw's son? Like "spiritually" or something?

[geisha779]

Jeff,

What do you mean by the perception of excellence? Is that a TWI thing I forgot about?

Edited February 18, 2009 by geisha779

[Bolshevik]

I was constantly told I was better than most everyone else on earth. That's in twi.

fck twi.

[geisha779]

I was constantly told I was better than most everyone else on earth. That's in twi.

fck twi.

As was I. . . what??. . . .it's not true? We didn't have the truth not known since the first century?? We were not God's elite, true, only right, Christ replacing, household? What a bummer.

I am not Jesus. . . or His replacement. . . . who knew??