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Wait, wait...back on page one Skyrider posted a list of names of people who want to change things. Ted and Ramona Bidon? Isn't she the same Ramona who was named in a lawsuit as part of Rosie's pumpin' and pimpin' ring? You don't right the wrongs that way.

Hello all. With everything that is going on, it seems like there is an ongoing need in the household of God, body of Christ, group of disgruntled ex-way people. We want to leave a cult, but we are too brainwashed by the cult to collaborate with other human beings with similar interests like the Bible, God, and Christianity. Because it is way too hard to communicate with folks like this and peddle our influence, we really need to stick to folks that are similarly brainwashed to ourselves. So, the only logical conclusion left is we need to start our own cult. For all the people like this, I am starting this thread.

Don't forget to write your own handbook, "Power for Abundant Luring."

Order the Cult starter kit – call now, (smooth) operators are standing by Call in the next 10 millennium and you’ll also receive: Crash-course in personality make-over: become that charming narcissistic megalomaniac that you’ve always wanted to be! Lessons in Lockbox Logistics: learn the complex operation of hiding bodies, crimes, misdemeanors, witnesses, and more! Buzzword Generator app: puts you in the driver seat of any conversation! Original Research Sampling Techniques: who thought of it first? Who cares!?!? Plagiarism smagiarism. Autographed copy of “How I Did It” by Elmer Gantry. Now how much do you think a minimum required donation would be for all of the above? Well, the next caller who really believes they can’t start a cult without all of this $hit stuff will also receive the book “How to Sin Against Friends and Compromise Scruples”.

The big NO:

More NO column:

In the NO column:

Next, I think we need to start out communications, and building concepts on this "How To Start A Cult" real slow, and use lots of pictures. Sometimes some people just need a little more time for things to sink in. First off, we are going to have a YES column, and a NO column. In the YES column:

There's no non-corps signatures? How will we know who's a True Faithful Standing Believing Believer of the Household of Believers of The Way and who's just a True Faithful Standing Believer of the Household of Believers of The Way R&R? We can't scream at them, we're gonna have to think up some new rules. Inconvenient, trivial, Biblical, rules. Okay, if someone checks their cell phone during a Fellowship, that is clearly idolatry. They are not completely completely thoroughly threwly convinced. Everyone keep a sharp eye out for that sort of thing.

Thanks tonto........yeah, more pieces to the puzzle. Another thing that intrigues me is........what was wierwille doing near Gunnison, CO when he stumbled upon "Sleepy Hollow" aka camp gunnison? I remember that wierwille commented on a handshake deal to buy the rustic campground on the gunnison river, but why there? why Colorado? Could it be that wierwille was taking a nostalgia trip to his ole Pikes Peak Seminary and then, continued west and stumbled upon this remote campgrounds? Perhaps, another one of his "revelations" to have a spot like Glenn Clark's "camps farthest out".......or similar. Wierwille, the forever plagiarist, was always in the market for copying someone else's successes. Heck, he could build Camp Gunnison into the greatest Christian camp in the whole, darn country.........couldn't he? /s

Yeah, and........how many Pharisees did the Apostle Paul try to "power grab" when he left the Pharisaic-Circle Compound? NONE THAT is the difference between the genuine and the counterfeit.

Ok now it all comes into focus. Rosie old as dirt and whats left of top leadetship are either doing a power grab from within or starting their own splinter, trying to take as many wayfers with them to their new group. Barf.

Totally. In fact studying history such as ours make us less doomed to repeat it ;) For me it is necessary to close the cycles.

Not sure why it took this long for the letter to be leaked this far... but here it is as a 7-page .pdf file. Perhaps this opening statement is where these supposed elders in the church fit into the classical story of Sisyphus, "He was punished for his self-aggrandizing craftiness and deceitfulness by..." in other words, where the authors of the letter appear to try to present themselves as humble servants of God, it's really an immense portion of hubris for them to actually think THEY are the ones who stand "according to the Word of God and the doctrine concerning Christ and the Grace Administration." Their "full intent and commitment is to bring to pass revival..." Wouldn't that really be God's prerogative, not theirs? Make no mistake, I'm not claiming to speak as a prophet or in the place of or name of God or Jesus Christ. I learned long ago that to actually accomplish that would be far above my pay grade. Nevertheless, in case you're interested, here it is... After the perfunctory standard TWIt opening statements (Greetings in the name of (as if they really are speaking on behalf of Jesus Christ)), it begins, As a result of the final three Way Corps meetings of 2016, we as fellow Way Corps ministers believe the time for action and change has come. We the undersigned, stand together according to the Word of God and the doctrine concerning Christ and the Grace Administration. Our full intent and commitment is to bring to pass revival and restoration for our ministry according to the Word of God in this Grace Administration. Our goal is not destruction, but edification. The following may be difficult to read at times, but to the best of our ability we are setting forth the truth in love, so help us God. Letter to BOD 2016-08-12-1.pdf

well, I just Wiki'd Noebel ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_A._Noebel This was just one of the brilliant minds our Wicktor admired. Sorry, didn't mean to derail the thread, but it still amazes me how the pieces of the puzzle of insanity we escaped keep turning up.

I hear he doesn't worry a lot because he prefers to be happy. Can't blame him. I don't know what VF was like before 1989, but I can honestly say that he became a very humble man who took his faith seriously.

I think we all struggle with what we should believe. A friend of mine on social media posted this quote from Paulo Coelho, a famous Brazilian author. To me it fits this struggle.... "None of us can be in the present and the past at the same time, not even when we try to understand the things that happen to us. What has passed will not return: we cannot for ever be children, late adolescents, sons that feel guilt or rancor towards our parents, lovers who day and night relive an affair with someone who has gone away and has not the least intention of coming back. Things pass, and the best we can do is to let them really go away. That is why it is so important (however painful it may be!) to destroy souvenirs, move, give lots of things away to orphanages, sell or donate the books you have at home. Everything in this visible world is a manifestation of the invisible world, of what is going on in our hearts - and getting rid of certain memories also means making some room for other memories to take their place. Let things go. Release them. Detach yourself from them. Nobody plays this life with marked cards, so sometimes we win and sometimes we lose. Do not expect anything in return, do not expect your efforts to be appreciated, your genius to be discovered, your love to be understood. Stop turning on your emotional television to watch the same program over and over again, the one that shows how much you suffered from a certain loss: that is only poisoning you, nothing else. Nothing is more dangerous than not accepting love relationships that are broken off, work that is promised but there is no starting date, decisions that are always put off waiting for the "ideal moment." Before a new chapter is begun, the old one has to be finished: tell yourself that what has passed will never come back. Remember that there was a time when you could live without that thing or that person - nothing is irreplaceable, a habit is not a need. This may sound so obvious, it may even be difficult, but it is very important. Closing cycles. Not because of pride, incapacity or arrogance, but simply because that no longer fits your life. Shut the door, change the record, clean the house, shake off the dust. Stop being who you were, and change into who you are." Paulo Coelho

Apparently, he got a hair cut. See. Wayfers ARE capable of change.

Okayyyyyyyy............... I also suffered through the entire hour of this video. And let me tell you, sticking with Ed Horn3y's 3rd grade rhetoric explained over and over again different ways real slow certainly convinced me I got off the short bus years ago when I left the Way. All dubious repeated accounts of how the BOD has been confronted and hasn't responded. Or they did respond, but not in an Acts 15 council way, they wanted to meet with couples alone. Boob didn't want to subject themselves to this. When a question was asked "what specific details" complained about, Shelton says he was a VP and as such was under an NDA so can't discuss the specifics. They vaguely refer to the letter, which as you can read has about one point. Rosalie is usurping authority, needs to step down. Democracy in the ministry I guess is the underlying point. Which has never been there in any format since the Youth Caravan Chimes Hour chimes player asked VP if he could play a solo and VP told him no. Next, all sorts of crapola about how they are working within the Way to reform and revitalize, and haven't even thought of the next step, but they will all be believers. Then Doody quoted the "I know who holds tomorrow" poem and I just about tossed cookies. Again, like the paper, have never seen so many people speaking while saying so little. They closed out with someone asking Boob how they were planning to do reform after he was marked and avoided. They all laughed. Then they closed observing they couldnt' do reform while marked and avoided, and this was the first step. All in all, apparently nothing they covered all the Corpse didn't complain about 10 years ago. It didn't change. Thankfully, I've now only lost an hour of my life, not 10 years. Carry on.

"Boob and Doody" HA HA!

Like I said on the other thread that referred to this letter, the delusion continues. For one thing, the "accuracy of The Word," is a mirage. If you don't believe that, try looking at any number of different versions of the Bible and see the differences. It's pretty obvious to anyone who reads carefully. To me, this letter is evidence that the signers are so enmeshed in the ideology that VPW dreamed up, I doubt they will ever change. But I am proof people can extricate themselves and really change, so I can't predict what will happen with these folks, despite the decades they've invested. I can tell you that in about 1998 or 1999, I contacted Do+tie Mo*nihan, who was at the time the Limb leader of Florida with her husband, Bob. I had found their phone number in the telephone book (ah the pre-internet days, at least for me). I was divorced, attending college, and working full time. I had been out of TWI for more than 10 years. The reason I called was to ask how her experience in graduate school for mental health counseling had helped her help people in TWI. I was considering going into that field. I also wanted to find out how she could justify continuing with TWI knowing of its extreme problems. At the time LCM was still president. She met with me, but she had asked if she could bring another 3rd Corps grad, a TWI-ordained woman with her, someone I had known over the years, too. Understand, I had not seen either of these women since 1987 at HQ just before I escaped. I said sure, bring her. We met in a café in Winter Park, FL. During a friendly, but surreal conversation, at least for me, I asked Do+tie why she had stayed with TWI. She said she wanted stand with her ordained husband. She also said she was a simple believer. Let the research be done by others, she would believe it,. like Uncle Harry used to say. It was then I told her flat out that TWI had never been a research ministry. I had been on the research team, which she knew because she was at HQ when I resigned from the team. I told her that "The Word" was whatever Wierwille said The Word was. Period. She looked shocked. She turned to her friend and they exchanged a glace I knew too well. I'm sharing this because it is not news to at least one of the signers of this document (Do*tie) that The Word was of Wierwille's making, yet she and the others persist in their delusional beliefs about Wierwille and the Bible. Those two things combine to make a strong tonic. In my view, this letter is proof of mind control if there ever was proof. Any ideology that tells you that your feelings do not matter, only The Word matters (which VP said all the time) is abusive. No one deserves to be abused. No one. People who were abused and continue to rationalize it, continue to name it something else, continue to dismiss it, will only continue to perpetuate it. What I recommend is that we keep sharing our stories here. You'd be surprised who might be reading them. There is another way of life, a better way, than offered by The Way International. We need to share our stories with our children and grandchildren. I can't tell you how many second generation Wayfers (or who they are) have contacted me about my story in Undertow, thanking me for shedding light on TWI, telling me it has helped heal them. If TWI was so great, then why do they need healing? Why do we need healing? Isn't it a pity that it's all come to this? That VPW's legacy is pain, confusion, and destruction? My hope is that the generation my daughter is a part of will someday see these GSC posts and learn from them, look through this window into their parents' pasts and understand the seriousness of mind control and its collateral damage. Sadly, they are a part of it in some form or other, some more than others, but many are still in denial just like their parents. Spread the word about helpful resources. I'm hoping to be part of a healing solution, which I think involves serious education. In my view, one of the best books for understanding all this is Bounded Choice by Janja Lalich. To those interested, you can check out Lalich's book and others at your local public library. In 1987, libraries were the immediate source of my healing. Then came people I could trust who did not have any stake in my life other than to encourage things that served my best interest, not their ego. Cheers, Charlene Lamy (former married name: Bishop) Edge former marked and avoided 2nd Corps Grad

It may be a bit longer than what some people care to read. I'll hit the high points. "Dr. said." something, something, something. "Snow on the gas pumps" something, something, something. "Dr. also said." something, something, something. God Bless

One of them on my list is my bro-in-law....So I can tell you AT LEAST one or two on that list really haven't changed. I did mention on here a way back, a list/book was being compiled to address decades long areas of concern. I mean, seriously, anyone with any even half a sense of decency have already left and moved on and enjoying their new life of 'abundance & power' I agree whole heartedly with DWBH..the ones calling for 'change', where would they even BEGIN to address the wrongs and hurts THEY THEMSELVES inflicted on those that had sense to leave ??? maybe they could start with just once again, reading Gods' Word for enjoyment and understanding ?? maybe then, verses like this would leap off the pages at them... "therefore if you bring your gift to the altar and there remember your brother has something against you, leave your gift before the altar and go your way and first be reconciled to your brother and THEN come and offer your gift before the altar" - Jesus...Matthew 5:23,24

If there were no GS then there would be one less resource for people to recover from the negative impact of the Way International. One of my relatives has a rare disease, OT - tremors. There are only a handful of people diagnosed with this disease across the world. She had great deliverance over the course of the last couple years when these folks got together and shared their stories, they even had a retreat. Hearing similar stories helped her to adjust to her disease, feel not alone, and since the two meetings she talks about them a great deal. Just seeing another human adjust to the condition and live a 'normal' life helped her so much. Like her, we who have experienced TWI also have a rare disease. I will be the first to admit I am damaged from it. The experiences there have affected aspects of my entire life into today. There aren't many people in public that can relate to me regarding this experience. it affects a lot in my life. I could ignore, that, suppress that, or admit it and heal and adjust. But admit it or not, my 'normal' life is a lot like my relative trying to adjust. To me the real heroes of The Way International experience are not the ones in lofty places, with condescending attitudes, being installed with pomp and ceremony into the highest offices of the organization that is growing less relevant every year. Not those who bury their heads in the sand, "thinking no evil" like the 3 monkey statue shows. Not those who use others to advance themselves. Not the enablers. No, the real heroes of The Way International are found on these pages. Those who tell the truth. Those who expose the lies, the control, the manipulation. Those who share real life drama about escape and adjustment. Those who say what everyone is thinking in the audience but are afraid to express to anyone - yes the STS sucks. Like every Way production. Boring, read teachings, whitewashed messages, all lies. The truth is what happens behind closed doors, where they are meeting out of fear. If you want to see a real hero from the Way experience, go look in the mirror. It's you. You survived. You told the truth. You, my friends on Greasespot, are the true heroes, not the moral midget being installed as President or any of his Pharisee buddies. Or any of the various hucksters selling versions of lies for their own profit. You are the true heroes. Even if you're damaged like me.

Not just out of the epistle, excie...left out of TWI really.

1989 should have been the end of the end of TWI, rather than the beginning or the middle. Those of us who left recognized much of what was wrong. Those who stayed recognized the opportunistic insincerity of Geer and company. Too few, far too few, recognized that both sides were engaged in a hypocritical, vain, self-centered power play. No one was right about their allegiance. All were right about the unworthiness of the side they did not choose.