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revvel

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  1. Acts 2 & Luke 21: Christ’s Precedent Peter and Jesus were both questioned. Their responses mirror one another: each presented the present tense fulfillment of prophecy and the future tense fulfillment of prophecy. Peter Acts 2:12-21 begins with Peter being asked a question, “What meaneth this?” PRESENT TENSE FULFILLMENT Peter answered directly by quoting Joel: “I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh…” FUTURE TENSE FULFILLMENT Peter also gave the crowd prophecy that went into future tense fulfillment: “the day of the Lord.” “What meaneth this?” This is what it means: Our present salvation means future salvation which will come to pass with the arrival of the day of the Lord. Peter answered a question providing present tense fulfillment, and continued to future tense fulfillment. Christ did likewise. He set the precedent. Christ In Luke 21, Christ gave us another precedent: Christ answered the questions of the disciples that addressed the first century fulfillment of prophecy (the destruction of the temple), and he gave them prophecy that would be fulfilled in a future century: Israel’s redemption. Luke 21 Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said, “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.” “Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?” (Luke 21:5-7) PRESENT TENSE FULFILLMENT: FIRST CENTURY Christ answered their questions, culminating in this: “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21:20-24) Judgment upon Israel was catastrophic in the first century. PRESENT TENSE TO FUTURE CENTURY In one prophecy—“Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled”—Jesus took the crowd from the present century to a future century. Why? Judgment was not the end of God’s plan; redemption would follow in a future century. FUTURE TENSE FULFILLMENT “There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.” (Luke 21:25-28) Israel’s redemption will come—with the fulfillment of the times of the Gentiles—and it will come by way of its redeemer: “And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord” (Isa. 59:20)—just as Paul prophesied in Rom. 11. revvel
  2. Christ’s prophecy in Matthew 24 contains prophecy already given in the Old Testament: Immediately after the distress of those days “‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’ “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Matt. 24:29-31) Christ quoted Isaiah: Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. (Isa.13:9, 10) Matthew 24:29-31 is in the context of the Day of the Lord. The generation of “this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened” is the generation of the day of the Lord—which is still future tense. Next: Luke 21 Narrative. revvel
  3. In Luke 21, Christ issued this prophecy: “Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.” (Luke 21: 24b-28) The question is: when are the times of the Gentiles fulfilled? In Romans, Christ gave revelation to Paul when he quoted Isaiah, and simultaneously Paul issued a prophecy, and he spoke of the mystery and Israel in the same breath. For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.” (Rom. 11:25–27) Paul said, “As it is written…” Christ taught Paul. The mystery pertains to Christ’s kingdom/church—those who are born again. Israel, in essence, refers to the followers of Moses (and has nothing to do with the followers of the Christ/the mystery). And Israel is partially blind during the times of the Gentiles. Note: Jacob was renamed Israel: “And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed” (Gen. 32:27, 28). Paul revealed this about when the “fullness of the Gentiles has come in”: 1. All Israel will be saved 2. The Deliverer will come out of Zion 3. He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob 4. For this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins Back to what Paul said, “As it is written…” In Romans 11, Paul quoted Isaiah 59 and Isaiah 27. First Isaiah 59: So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him. And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord. As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord. (Isa. 59:19-21) The Deliverer/Redeemer shall come out of/to Zion, and deliver Jacob/Israel when the enemy shall come like a flood. This is when the “fullness of the Gentiles come in,” or as Christ prophesied, “when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.” Now, look at the greater context of Isaiah’s prophecy of the Redeemer, which identifies when the Deliverer will deliver Israel: And thou shalt know that I the Lord am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob….The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; (Isa. 60:16; 61:1, 2) As we know, Jesus quoted Isa. 61:1, 2a in Luke 4 to proclaim His earthly ministry (the acceptable year of the Lord), but He never quoted “and the day of vengeance of our God” because it was future tense. And, Paul and Isaiah said the Deliverer come to/out of Zion. When? Joel already prophesied of it: Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great. Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision. The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. So shall ye know that I am the Lord your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk… (Joel 3:13-18) When the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, “Thy people also shall be all righteous,” “then shall Jerusalem be holy.” Was Jerusalem made holy in the first century? No. The temple was destroyed. Finally, in Romans 11, Paul also quoted Isaiah 27: “When I take away their sins.” Isaiah 27 By this, then, will Jacob’s guilt be atoned for, and this will be the full fruit of the removal of his sin: (Isa. 27:9) The context is this: In that day the Lord will thresh from the flowing Euphrates to the Wadi of Egypt, and you, Israel, will be gathered up one by one. And in that day a great trumpet will sound. Those who were perishing in Assyria and those who were exiled in Egypt will come and worship the Lord on the holy mountain in Jerusalem. (Isa. 27:12, 13) What will sound? The great trumpet (not the last trumpet). Who will be gathered? Israel. Next: Matthew 24:29-31 revvel
  4. The debate about Matthew 24 concerns the timing of the fulfillment of prophecy: "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." Is the "generation" of the first century or a future century? And we know Christ quoted Daniel in Matthew 24. This thread started by applying Christ’s precedent to Peter, Paul, and John to discern the timing and nature of the Rapture, and will continue by applying the same principle. We as Christ’s kingdom have the precedent of Christ quoting Old Testament prophets to show the present tense and future tense fulfillment of prophecy. We also have the unmistakable testimony of two witnesses—Christ and Peter—as to why an Old Testament prophet is quoted: Christ: “This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.” Luke 4. Peter: “this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel.” Acts 2. Old Testament prophets are quoted in the New Testament to demonstrate the fulfillment of prophecy in light of New Testament revelation. Thus, Christ quoted Daniel in Matthew 24 to show the fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy in the light of Christ’s New Testament revelation. Yet, also debated is Daniel’s prophecy: Was it 100% fulfilled in the first century or is a portion of Daniel’s prophecy yet to be fulfilled? This adds another layer to the debate. Thankfully, Christ gave additional revelation to Paul expounding upon His own prophecies in the Gospels. In Romans, Paul quoted an Old Testament prophet and he did so in the light of New Testament revelation—only this revelation speaks of the mystery (the church) and Israel in the same breath. Paul’s prophecy quotes Isaiah which is directly connected to Joel, and all these prophecies tie right into Luke 21, which tie right into Matthew 24. Herein, the prophets and Paul answer the question of the "generation" and the content of the generation. In other words, the answer is already given in the Old Testament, and Paul directed us where to look. As we know, Paul knew the Old Testament. Christ taught Paul what those Old Testament prophecies meant—for the mystery (the church) and Israel—and Paul (along with Peter and John) taught us. After Paul’s quote, the thread will go to Matthew 24, and how Christ quoted Isaiah, who prophesied of the day of the Lord. There will be multiple witnesses from within the Old and New Testaments who are in agreement regarding how to understand Matthew 24, and how it fits with the rest of the Bible. All that reveals this: “This generation shall not pass” cannot be from the first century, but rather, is the generation associated with the fulfillment of end-time prophecy associated with the day of the Lord. The thread will also look at Peter’s prophecy on Pentecost, how he quoted Joel to answer the question he received, and how it mirrors how Christ responded to the questions He received. Finally, the thread will end with Daniel’s prophecy. Next: Paul’s quote of Isaiah. revvel
  5. For those who might not know, this thread came out of my other thread: Treasures in Heaven. Treasures in Heaven is free book on my site thetimeline.org Chapter 4 of the book addresses the details of the Rapture. “The Epilogue: The Chronology of Prophecy” addresses the numbered chronology in Revelation, which includes the Rapture and Armageddon. I’ll be back next week on Matt. 24. revvel
  6. Paul: The Day of the Lord: 1 Thess. 4:13-18; 5:1-10 Paul began his prophecy of the Rapture in 1 Thess. 4:13 and ended his prophecy by declaring Christ’s kingdom is saved from the wrath (1 Thess. 5:9, 10). Thus, the “effect” of being saved from the wrath has an unmistakable “cause,” the Rapture. In the midst of the prophecy, Paul prophesied about the day of the Lord—just as Peter did on Pentecost. Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. (1 Thess. 5:1, 2) When Paul prophesied about the day of the Lord coming like a thief in the night, he prophesied about “times and dates,” not the lack of signs. When Christ prophesied of His return, He said: “Behold, I come like a thief!” (Rev. 16:15). This prophecy is in the context of Armageddon, which is “the battle on the great day of God Almighty” (Rev. 16:14). As prophesied, God will save Israel in this battle. Who among us would say Armageddon is a “signless” event? If Christ doesn’t use “thief” to mean a “signless” event, then what right does anyone in His church have to claim that Paul’s use of “thief” means the Rapture is a “signless” event? Christ and Paul are referring to the same subject, “timing,” not the lack of the signs. Christ’s reference to a thief speaks not of a quiet return, but of the sudden surprise of His return—just as Paul prophesied of the sudden nature of events pertaining to Christ’s descent during the Rapture: “While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape (1 Thess. 5:3). This thread has applied Christ’s precedent to the prophecies of Peter, Paul, and John. Christ’s precedent is a systematic approach to the New Testament that has no exceptions. TLC: That was a revelation. From this biblical truth, this truth is evident: the Rapture, accompanied by dramatic heavenly and earthly signs, prior to the wrath, is sound doctrine. Peter, Paul, and John all quoted Old Testament prophets, and each provided different pieces of the prophetic puzzle, painting a unified picture. If you choose to embrace Christ's precedent, you have His interpretation of our present tense salvation and our future tense salvation. I will finish this thread by circling back to Matt. 24. revvel
  7. TLC: The answer to your question is in my first post. revvel
  8. In Revelation, John quoted Isaiah: “They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.” (Rev. 7:16, 17) John quoted Isaiah (49:10; 25:8) for the same reason Paul quoted Isaiah and Hosea, and Peter quoted Joel: to reveal the future tense fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy in the light of New Testament revelation, the mystery. Paul and John both quoted from the prophecy found in Isaiah 25:8. No coincidence. Christ’s precedent. John’s Old Testament quote of Isaiah follows the sixth seal, and comes before the seventh seal. Thus, John’s quote of Isaiah is part of the sixth seal revelation: “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood. And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.” (Rev. 6:12-14) This seal presents the same signs as prophesied by Peter: the sun turning black and the moon turning blood red. John's revelation adds to Peter's signs. Following the sixth seal, there are 3 separate prophecies for 3 separate groups of people: Gentiles (Rev. 6:15–17), Jews (Rev. 7:1-8), and the church of God (Rev. 7:9-17). This is exactly how God sees His creation: “the Jews, … the Gentiles, … the church of God” (1 Cor. 10:32). The third presentation, which pertains to the church, begins with Revelation 7:9: “After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.” (Rev. 7:9, 10) “Salvation to our God….” This future tense salvation is the same future tense salvation prophesied by Peter on Pentecost: “The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Acts 2:20, 21) John’s vision of the church raptured to Heaven concludes with John’s quote of Isaiah (Rev. 7:16, 17). The plagues of the wrath begin after the seventh seal opens in Rev. 8. And with the church already raptured to Heaven, it is saved from the wrath—exactly as Paul prophesied: (Rom. 5:9; 1 Thess. 1:10; 1 Thess. 5:9). When applying the precedent set by Christ, the revelation given to us by Peter, Paul, and John reveals this: The Rapture, which is accompanied by dramatic heavenly and earthly signs, will occur before the wrath. Next: Paul’s prophecy of the Rapture 1 Thess. 4 & 5, and what Paul says about the day of the Lord coming as a thief, and what Christ has to say about coming as a “thief.” revvel
  9. Peter: Acts 2: Applying Christ's Precedent On Pentecost, Peter quoted Joel. And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this? Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Acts 2:12, 14-21) On Pentecost, Peter quoted Joel. Why? By the authority of Jesus Christ we know why: it is either the present tense or future tense fulfillment of prophecy. Or, in this case, it is both. First: Present Tense The crowd asked Peter, “What meaneth this?” And Peter quoted Joel. Peter quoted Joel for the same reason Paul quoted Habakkuk: it is the present tense fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. Peter quoted Joel because it was the present tense fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy (Joel 2:28, 29). The Spirit was poured out, and continues to be poured out on those who believe the message of faith. Second: Future Tense Peter didn’t end his quote with Joel 2:29. He continued until Joel 2:32a, prophesying about the day of the Lord: “The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Acts 2:20, 21). Peter prophesied about the day of the Lord for the same reason Paul quoted Isaiah (25:8) and Hosea (13:14): to reveal the future tense fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. By quoting Joel 2:28-32a, Peter revealed the present tense and future tense fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, and thus, he connected our present tense salvation with our future tense salvation. Peter is referring to all those who call on the name of Lord—which, in the context of Peter’s prophecy, are those filled with the Spirit. That’s us; Christ’s church. And according to the prophecy, our future tense salvation is accompanied by heavenly signs: the sun turning black and the moon turning blood red. In essence, on Pentecost, Peter revealed the mystery—which pertains to the church—hidden in Joel. And the rest of Joel’s prophecy (Joel 2:32b & following) applies to Israel’s future salvation. Next: John’s quote of the Old Testament as it pertains to our future salvation. revvel
  10. Thanks Infoabsorption for the link. FYI: In the coming posts I will be in the Book of Revelation. revvel
  11. Hi Infoabsorption, I can appreciate where you are coming from. I ask that you follow the prophets and apostles I will quote here. Eventually, this will come full circle back to Matt. 24. revvel
  12. I question what you think or intend to communicate with your use of "in the light of New Testament revelation." Perhaps you wouldn't mind explaining that for me Hi TLC. To answer your question, I will quote Paul. Paul: FUTURE TENSE FULFILLMENT: 1 Cor. 15:51-55 In Corinthians 15, when Paul quoted the Old Testament prophets Isaiah and Hosea, he did so in the light of New Testament revelation. What is the New Testament light (revelation) you ask? Good question. Paul began his prophecy by saying this: “Behold, I shew you a mystery.” That’s your answer: “a mystery” which is composed of present and future tense prophetic fulfillment (present and future salvation). The “mystery” is New Testament light. Christ gave Paul revelation about the mystery. Paul revealed it while simultaneously quoting Old Testament prophets in the same context to reveal the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. Here is a mystery and here are the Old Testament prophets, together: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? (1 Cor 15:51-55) Paul revealed a mystery, and part of that mystery was already hidden in the Old Testament. Paul revealed the mystery hidden in the Old Testament when he quoted two Old Testament prophets: Isaiah (25:8) and Hosea (13:14). In essence, Paul revealed the mystery hidden in the Old Testament, which pertained to the future fulfillment of prophecy for Christ’s kingdom/church. Like Paul, Peter and John also quoted Old Testament prophets, revealing the mystery hidden in the Old Testament. Peter’s quote will be next post. revvel
  13. Paul: Romans 1 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.” (Rom. 1:16, 17) Paul quoted an Old Testament prophet, Habakkuk (2:4), “as it is written,” “The just shall live by faith.” Why did Paul quote Habakkuk? By the authority of Jesus Christ we know why: it is either the present tense or future tense fulfillment of prophecy, placed in the context of New Testament revelation. Paul quoted Habakkuk in the context of “salvation to every one that believeth.” This applies to the present tense. Thus, Paul quoted Habakkuk to show the present tense fulfillment of Habakkuk’s prophecy, which applies to our present salvation; Paul expounded upon “The just shall live by faith” when he presented the message of faith (Rom. 10:8-10). In subsequent posts, focusing on the future tense, I will quote Peter, Paul, and John and the Old Testament prophets they quoted—and apply Christ’s precedent to each. I will start with Paul. revvel
  14. This post is about Christ's precedent. Christ established a precedent in the Gospels. When this precedent is applied to the revelation given by the apostles (Acts – Revelation), the “interpretation” of their revelation is provided by Christ. For, it is His precedent that is being applied. Christ’s precedent is found in the answer to this question: Why did Christ quote Old Testament prophets? Christ quoted Old Testament prophets to reveal the present tense fulfillment of prophecy or the future tense fulfillment of prophecy. And, He quoted the Old Testament prophets in the light of New Testament revelation. Thus, He revealed the context of the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy. Examples: CHRIST’S PRECEDENT: PRESENT TENSE FULFILLMENT: Luke 4 If you were with The Way, you heard this: Christ quoted Isaiah (61:1, 2a) in Luke 4. And after doing so, “he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears” (Luke 4:21). Christ quoted Isaiah to reveal the present tense fulfillment of Isaiah’s prophecy: “This day….” CHRIST’S PRECEDENT: FUTURE TENSE FULFILLMENT: Matt. 24 “And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, ‘Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?’” (Matt. 24:3) These questions pertain to future tense fulfillment. And in Christ’s response, He quoted an Old Testament prophet: “[T]his gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains.” (Matt. 24:14-16) Christ quoted Daniel (9:27) and, in doing so, He revealed the future fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy in the light of New Testament revelation. This precedent established by Christ is His standard—as to why an Old Testament prophet is quoted. Thus, when an apostle quotes an Old Testament prophet, it is either to reveal the present tense or future tense fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, in the context of New Testament revelation. When applying Christ’s precedent to Peter, Paul, and John, the following is revealed to be sound doctrine: the future tense fulfillment of prophecy—the Rapture—is accompanied by dramatic heavenly and earthly signs, and will come to pass prior to the wrath. Prior to posting the prophets quoted by Peter, Paul, and John, I thought it would benefit this thread to establish common ground by referring to Paul quoting the Old Testament in Romans 1. That is my next post. revvel
  15. Hi Waysider, Thanks for stopping by. I was aware of the "degree mill" stuff for the doctorate. revvel