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"God has no hands but our hands" remember this poem? Rate Topic: -----

#1 User is offline   WordWolf Icon

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 09:10 AM

vpw's thing about making changes in the work of other as suited him and
conveniently forgetting to mention their names came into play here again.


Remember this poem "written by vpw"?


"God has no hands but our hands
with which to give His people bread.
God has no feet but our feet
with which to walk amoung the almost dead.
We say that we are His,and He is ours.
Deeds are the proof of this, not words,
And these are the proving hours."



Well,
if you knew about the FOURTEENTH-CENTURY St Teresa of Avila,
this poem might have sounded oddly familiar.

After all, she said
===
""God has no hands but our hands to do his work today;
God has no feet but our feet to lead others in his way;
God has no voice but our voice to tell others how he died;
and God has no help but our help to lead them to his side." "
===

If the average person did this, I might be open to possibilities
like
"they wrote this having never seen the work of the other person"
or
"they forgot they ever read this from another person"

However,
vpw had QUITE the track record on dropping labels off
off things he liked,
whether they were entire books of Christians,
poems, etc.
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#2 User is offline   GrouchoMarxJr Icon

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 09:33 AM

VP. Cornfield would have claimed to have written the book of Ephesians if he thought that he could have gotten away with it.
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#3 User is offline   Tom Strange Icon

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 09:41 AM

...for some reason I don't ever remember having the impression that "he" wrote it... I remember the poem, but whoever I heard it from never said veepee wrote it...

is it written somewhere that he did?
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#4 User is offline   ex10 Icon

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 09:42 AM

Yeah, what tommy said. I never heard VP claim to have written this. As a matter of fact, I have heard the same adaptation read at my (Methodist) church.
"I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now." Bob Dylan
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#5 User is offline   outandabout Icon

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 09:55 AM

No hands but our hands? Talk about pressure.
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#6 User is offline   WordWolf Icon

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 10:00 AM

View Postex10, on Jul 13 2006, 10:42 AM, said:

Yeah, what tommy said. I never heard VP claim to have written this. As a matter of fact, I have heard the same adaptation read at my (Methodist) church.


"THIS SAME ADAPTATION"?
Was the person an ex-wayfer?

On all of cyberspace, I can find a bunch of references to St Teresa of Avila's
version,
but the twi version is only on ex-wayfer sites.



If someone has a copy of the poetry book
("An Album of Verses?" What was the name?),
they can check if this was in there, labelled "BY Victor Paul Wierwille".

We already had it confirmed that the "BY Victor Paul Wierwille" label
was attached to the poem "If a Million People Love You",
which, except for the last line, was in use long before by people who've
never heard of vpw.
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#7 User is offline   GarthP2000 Icon

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 10:01 AM

I've noticed this too, that he never claimed to have wrote it. But then again, true to form (I think), ever notice when he would quote somebody, he would hardly ever give verbal credit to the author(s)?

Methinks that might be a practice gleaned from his plagerism practices.
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and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 10:47 AM

WW Yeah it could have come from an exwayfer, since we have several in our church. I don't remember the specifics. Just being surprised at seeing the poem printed in our bulletin, and someone reading it at church.

This post has been edited by ex10: 13 July 2006 - 10:48 AM

"I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now." Bob Dylan
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Posted 13 July 2006 - 01:20 PM

i thought the ending went:

"...Deeds are the proof of this, not words
Meet me in the motorcoach in half an hour."


or am i thinking of something else?
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#10 User is offline   WhiteDove Icon

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 02:14 PM

WW it is not in the Album of Verse booklet. The only one I saw in there with his name on it was If a Million People love you. I don't recall VP every taking credit for the no hands poem.
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#11 User is offline   WordWolf Icon

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 03:31 PM

View PostWhiteDove, on Jul 13 2006, 03:14 PM, said:

WW it is not in the Album of Verse booklet. The only one I saw in there with his name on it was If a Million People love you. I don't recall VP every taking credit for the no hands poem.

You CHECKED the Album of Verse?

If so,
then-pending an account who specifically heard vpw claim OTHERWISE-

I'll chalk this one up to a semi-exaggeration on my part.

That is,
vpw never attached his name to it, nor said "I wrote this."

However,
I'm still waiting for any indication that he gave ANY credit to this
particular poem.
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#12 User is offline   QuietThinker Icon

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Posted 13 July 2006 - 04:06 PM

This was a very strange thread for me to return to. I related in my first post on the forum that my ex had been involved with twi since the 70s, and I took the last pfal run in our area. So, coming home after the 5th session, he made mention of the poem you shared, WW, and I said, "I had no idea you were at all familiar with early literature."

I started spouting off about early liturgical writings and poetry and all those things. I was a lit major, after all, before I quit in my senior year to be with him and twi.

He replied, rather shocked, "No, Dr. W. wrote that."

I am *sure* we're discussing the this very poem, and I remember my thought was "well, you're an <<his profession>> so why would you know?".

I was afraid to contradict him even then. I later asked the guy running the class, whose name I am afraid I don't remember, though I can see his big stocky, frame and red face in my mind...he said he didn't think vpw wrote it, but reminded me that I shouldn't be argumentative with my "head".

Yeah. My head whose idea of really fine literature was Irwin Shaw.

I shoulda known then....

QT
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#13 User is offline   WhiteDove Icon

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 07:14 AM

Yes WW I did. The Album of Verse booklet was however a reprint of some of the poems in the origional volumes 1 & 2 which were done from the Chimes Hour radio broadcasts where Dick Konkle the announcer read them. So it may have been in one of those first editions but did not make it into the reprint.

Also I missed another poem? from the book along with If a Million People Love You also was another The Masters Hand, also with VPW 's name on credits. I was not aware they considered that a poem. it was a closing remark on a SNS tape once.

There is so much in life, Man will never understand. But through it all the faithful, Will see the Master's hand.

So there are two poems credited to VPW in the booklet.
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#14 User is offline   WordWolf Icon

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 08:05 AM

View PostWhiteDove, on Jul 14 2006, 08:14 AM, said:

Yes WW I did. The Album of Verse booklet was however a reprint of some of the poems in the origional volumes 1 & 2 which were done from the Chimes Hour radio broadcasts where Dick Konkle the announcer read them. So it may have been in one of those first editions but did not make it into the reprint.

Also I missed another poem? from the book along with If a Million People Love You also was another The Masters Hand, also with VPW 's name on credits. I was not aware they considered that a poem. it was a closing remark on a SNS tape once.

There is so much in life, Man will never understand. But through it all the faithful, Will see the Master's hand.

So there are two poems credited to VPW in the booklet.


Is this the one you are referring to?
HCW told me that vpw credited this one properly,
but-like the one in the opening post-
most of us never heard that.

======
"The Touch Of The Master's Hand"
--------------------------------
'Twas battered and scarred, and the auctioneer
Thought it scarcely worth his while
To waste much time on the old violin,
But held it up with a smile.
"What am I bidden, good folks," he cried,
"Who'll start the bidding for me?"
"A dollar, a dollar. Then two! Only two?
Two dollars, and who'll make it three?"

"Three dollars, once; three dollars, twice;
Going for three..." But no,
From the room, far back, a grey-haired man
Came forward and picked up the bow;
Then wiping the dust from the old violin,
And tightening the loosened strings,
He played a melody pure and sweet,
As a caroling angel sings.

The music ceased, and the auctioneer,
With a voice that was quiet and low,
Said: "What am I bid for the old violin?"
And he held it up with the bow.
"A thousand dollars, and who'll make it two?
Two thousand! And who'll make it three?
Three thousand, once; three thousand, twice,
And going and gone," said he.

The people cheered, but some of them cried,
"We do not quite understand.
What changed its worth?" Swift came the reply:
"The touch of the master's hand."
And many a man with life out of tune,
And battered and scarred with sin,
Is auctioned cheap to the thoughtless crowd
Much like the old violin.

A "mess of pottage," a glass of wine,
A game -- and he travels on.
He is "going" once, and "going" twice,
He's "going" and almost "gone."
But The Master comes, and the foolish crowd
Never can quite understand
The worth of a soul and the change that is wrought
By the touch of The Master's hand.

-- Myra Brooks Welch.
==========
That was written in 1921.
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#15 User is offline   WhiteDove Icon

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 08:10 AM

Continued.........

There is an Audio of VP reading this poem tape #222 - 8/14/66 no author given introduced simply as "Remember that old poem" then he reads it. This poem was often read I'll see if I can find any credit for it in any of the usages.

Of more interest was a section of tape #214- 10/17/65 where VPW talks about the incident when God told him He would teach him the Word....... And then about Roselyn Rinker who came for a week to HDQT and taught VP the word which he said he did not know any of. If anyone is interested maybe it could be put into a audio database for future reference.
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#16 User is offline   CoolWaters Icon

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 08:12 AM

I'd LOVE to hear that tape #214, WD.
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Posted 14 July 2006 - 08:18 AM

View PostWordWolf, on Jul 14 2006, 08:05 AM, said:

Is this the one you are referring to?
HCW told me that vpw credited this one properly,
but-like the one in the opening post-
most of us never heard that.

======
"The Touch Of The Master's Hand"
--------------------------------
'Twas battered and scarred, and the auctioneer
Thought it scarcely worth his while
To waste much time on the old violin,
But held it up with a smile.
"What am I bidden, good folks," he cried,
"Who'll start the bidding for me?"
"A dollar, a dollar. Then two! Only two?
Two dollars, and who'll make it three?"

"Three dollars, once; three dollars, twice;
Going for three..." But no,
From the room, far back, a grey-haired man
Came forward and picked up the bow;
Then wiping the dust from the old violin,
And tightening the loosened strings,
He played a melody pure and sweet,
As a caroling angel sings.

The music ceased, and the auctioneer,
With a voice that was quiet and low,
Said: "What am I bid for the old violin?"
And he held it up with the bow.
"A thousand dollars, and who'll make it two?
Two thousand! And who'll make it three?
Three thousand, once; three thousand, twice,
And going and gone," said he.

The people cheered, but some of them cried,
"We do not quite understand.
What changed its worth?" Swift came the reply:
"The touch of the master's hand."
And many a man with life out of tune,
And battered and scarred with sin,
Is auctioned cheap to the thoughtless crowd
Much like the old violin.

A "mess of pottage," a glass of wine,
A game -- and he travels on.
He is "going" once, and "going" twice,
He's "going" and almost "gone."
But The Master comes, and the foolish crowd
Never can quite understand
The worth of a soul and the change that is wrought
By the touch of The Master's hand.

-- Myra Brooks Welch.
==========
That was written in 1921.

That one is also in the booklet and credited as you noted , the one I refered to is a different one,

The Masters Hand, also with VPW 's name on credits. I was not aware they considered that a poem. it was a closing remark on a SNS tape once.

The poem.

There is so much in life, Man will never understand. But through it all the faithful, Will see the Master's hand.

This post has been edited by WhiteDove: 14 July 2006 - 08:19 AM

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#18 User is offline   WhiteDove Icon

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 08:26 AM

View PostCoolWaters, on Jul 14 2006, 08:12 AM, said:

I'd LOVE to hear that tape #214, WD.


Well you'll have to turn off Procol Harum's A Whiter Shade of Pale then.............
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#19 User is offline   CoolWaters Icon

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 08:27 AM

Say it ain't so!

I cannot think of a better way to listen to twi teaching tapes than with Procul Harum in the background...

:evilshades:
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#20 User is offline   WhiteDove Icon

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 08:32 AM

Ha Cool ...... As my friend Cowgirl often tells me Your pushing it !
Posted Image LOVE FROM THE DOVE....

Without Coffee I Would Have No Personality At All.





TRUTHFULNESS - earning future trust by accurately reporting past facts. ***** 01*20*09 The begining of an error......
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