Potato -- I also bought that copy of Stile's book from Amazon.
Cost me a whopping 5 bucks -- or close to it.
I have the 1970 reprint, not the original 1952 edition,
but read in a twi mind-set -- docvic is all over the place. :(
Now -- If you want a REAL EYE-OPENER --- get a copy of
*HOW TO ENJOY THE BIBLE*, by E. W. Bullinger (originally published in 1916).
((COUGH!!!)) THE SAME YEAR DOCVIC WAS BORN!!!!
The entire PFAL class is in there,
way before snow settled on some gas pumps,
in Ohio, in the summer, that no one else saw.
Docvic probably didn't have an original thought, or *revelation* ever.
That's my IMO.
It seems manifestly evident, by the writings that have preceeded his *works*.
t's really, really eerie reading it. I keep feeling like, wow, he totally ripped that off from v.p. wierwille... but this material and the decade or so of teaching that predates the book came before v.p. wierwille claims to have been inspired by God to teach this material.
You can find all of docvic's teachings in the books/ writings, of
J. E. Stiles, and E. W. Bullinger.
and I'm willing to bet --
those two never saw snow on gas pumps, in the middle of the summer,
Ditto on the Bullinger "How to Enjoy..." - though I may not always agree with his interpretations of what he thought to see, he nonetheless produced some very interesting observations along the way. His system is remarkable to me in that it "resurrects" the spirit of Marcion. In so many respects, Bullinger's view of Paul and his emphasis upon the "newness" of his revelation, is identical to Marcion's view.
Check out the works of Clarence Larkin for some more "eye openers" to Wierwille's theological diet. This guy did a knock out job with his illustrations and dispensational charts.
Would you care to post any examples from Stiles' book?
I was looking for my RHST book so I could do that, but it seems that when I moved last year I didn't bother to unpack it... guess I really had one foot out the door. I'll have to post as I read, because I'm so curious now I'm going to mark up the RHST book when I find it with page numbers from Stiles' book.
When I was on Staff, one of my responsibilities was to make sure the collection of books in the Trustee conference room were the latest and greatest. One day I was thumbing through How to Enjoy the Bible. I never bought it or read it. It was weird to read because it was worded just like the PFAL class and other books VPW wrote. It struck me as odd, but I was still a good little koolaide drinker.
It seems odd that TWI marketed those books. Did VP think anyone would catch on? Or did he promote that he received the same revelation these great theologians and men did??
When I was on Staff, one of my responsibilities was to make sure the collection of books in the Trustee conference room were the latest and greatest. One day I was thumbing through How to Enjoy the Bible. I never bought it or read it. It was weird to read because it was worded just like the PFAL class and other books VPW wrote. It struck me as odd, but I was still a good little koolaide drinker.
It seems odd that TWI marketed those books. Did VP think anyone would catch on? Or did he promote that he received the same revelation these great theologians and men did??
Maybe someone else will remember, but I think the spin was that Dr. Wierwille had discovered all this stuff through his own research, and then found validation in the works of Bullinger who had seen the same things in the Word a generation or two earlier. Funny, it was like validation for us too: "see not only VPW figured out 'four crucified' - here's this guy Bullinger who came to the same conclusion - it must be true!" It never occurred to me to look at that stuff and say, "Dang, VPW sure ripped off the writings of this Bullinger guy!"
Since connecting the dots, it has amazed me that How to Enjoy the Bible is still sold in the Way International Bookstore. Why not include J.E. Stiles book as well?
Speaking of ripping off the works of others, another ironic phenomenon would occur when I found the teachings of similar to TWI. It would seem like they were ripping off PFAL and VPW. As if either of these were unique to or originated from TWI. I remember several years ago when I first saw Joel Osteen (mega-church pastor out of Houston), this guy definitely must have had "the class". LOL. You know what we'd say next, right? "The value of the counterfeit is in its likeness to the genuine."
The closer they sound to TWI teachings the more counterfeit they must be!
I remember sending my parents a copy of EW Bulinger’s book, to lend some credibility to VPW. Looking back, it is so amazing how the shyster VPW had us mesmerized into believing he was the Apostle. My parents didn’t buy into it.
Can’t wait for Potato to provide more documented evidence revealing how VPW ripped off Stiles.
Wierwille was shameless...He even stole the names "Johnny Jumpup, Maggie Muggins and Herman Baloko" from Stiles...The old poop couldn't even come up with his own names. Stole it lock, stock and barrel...and we were the marks. We bit the hook and swallowed the story of the snow on the gas pumps. Wierwille became the king of his kingdom and got filthy rich...
...This guy's rip off, switch and bait scheme was so effective that it's still in existance 21 years after his death. Enough to make Ron Pompeil proud.
Speaking of ripping off the works of others, another ironic phenomenon would occur when I found the teachings of similar to TWI. It would seem like they were ripping off PFAL and VPW. As if either of these were unique to or originated from TWI. I remember several years ago when I first saw Joel Osteen (mega-church pastor out of Houston), this guy definitely must have had "the class". LOL. You know what we'd say next, right? "The value of the counterfeit is in its likeness to the genuine."
The closer they sound to TWI teachings the more counterfeit they must be!
The Word-Faith Movement ALL stole from EW Kenyon- including vpw and Osteen.
Which is no guarantee what was stolen was WORTH stealing.
Wierwille was shameless...He even stole the names "Johnny Jumpup, Maggie Muggins and Herman Baloko" from Stiles...The old poop couldn't even come up with his own names. Stole it lock, stock and barrel...and we were the marks. We bit the hook and swallowed the story of the snow on the gas pumps. Wierwille became the king of his kingdom and got filthy rich...
...This guy's rip off, switch and bait scheme was so effective that it's still in existance 21 years after his death. Enough to make Ron Pompeil proud.
LEONARD.
He stole the names from LEONARD.
He did that when he stole Leonard's class, and his name for his publishing co,
CANADIAN Christian Press.
He stole the class' TEXTBOOK from STILES in the same year.
"Receiving the Holy Spirit Today" was what he called the textbook and
Leonard's class when he was saying it was his OWN class.
Maybe someone else will remember, but I think the spin was that Dr. Wierwille had discovered all this stuff through his own research, and then found validation in the works of Bullinger who had seen the same things in the Word a generation or two earlier. Funny, it was like validation for us too: "see not only VPW figured out 'four crucified' - here's this guy Bullinger who came to the same conclusion - it must be true!" It never occurred to me to look at that stuff and say, "Dang, VPW sure ripped off the writings of this Bullinger guy!"
Since connecting the dots, it has amazed me that How to Enjoy the Bible is still sold in the Way International Bookstore. Why not include J.E. Stiles book as well?
IIRC,
the story was that Rosal1nd R1nker (I may have the wrong person) supposedly told him
Bullinger wrote like vpw taught, and gave him his first Bullinger book.
Not much longer after that, vpw WROTE "like Bullinger wrote."
In the same sentences and chapters and books and so on.
I have the book, "How to Enjoy Reading the Bible." I promise you it is so incredibly dry and boring that I would have never read it. Yes, almost everything in the book is in PFAL. But I would have never acheived the understanding or belief in or of the Bible by reading that book.
Hence, when I am in conversation and people ask me where I learned so much, I tell them I knew a bunch of people that had studied a 19th century theologian who was more high tech for his time than IBM was for the '50's.
I then describe the desk Bullinger had and the scripts he would compare and the commentaries he sifted through and checked.
I simply give credit to whom it's due. When Christmas comes around, I refer to the authors of JCOPS and Bullinger's Witness of the Stars.
I never thought of VPW or LCM as a substitue for God or Jesus Christ. But I was always thankful someone else studied the material before me and found the relevant items required for me to be able to keep God first and avoid getting hoodwinked by the fairy tales of the religious Christians of my day and time.
I also bought the Stiles book about 2 weeks ago from amazon, there's still a few left there, if anyone else is interested. Yes, it is a carbon copy of what we were taught by VP, even the cadence of the book is familiar.
I also bought a few other books by bullinger for comparison, and a copy of the House of Acts.
It makes me wonder what would have happened if VP never went to California and recruited Jimmy Do*p and Steve He*fner. I wonder how much further the Word could have moved with just God backing them, rather than VP. I wonder what their ministries were like, how their ministries worked, how they were so succesfull, before Wierwille injected himself into their ministies.
I feel that so much of what I've learned thru twi was so tainted by Wierwille's slant, his egotism, his hatered of women, blacks, jews, organized religion, his drambuie revelations, his lusts, and his self amassed conglomeration of teachings plagerized from other's works.
I don't even trust my own knowledge of what I thought I knew the Word to mean. Which really sucks....
But I still want to know the truth, I still want a relationship with God....I just wish I had opened my eyes sooner.
bnis, I question all my beliefs as well. it helps that I get to talk them over with my kids and with another person who left twi at the same time. we both have waybrain but it's sorting out. it's just gonna take some time.
My step-father (who witnessed to my entire family before marrying my mother) has had all those books for many years. Funny how perspectives differ here, isn't it. I have no particular need to blame TWI or VPW for anything, as I was affected in a totally different way. So I have the luxury of being open minded on the 'rip-off' theme. Seems to me that VP gave credit where credit was due in all of his writings as I recall. I don't look at WAY books very often anymore, but I'm sure that in reading them over a 20+ year span that I've come across many footnotes and appendices giving credit to these workers of the Word. I suppose my ex is correct in her signature here on the board where she says something to the effect of "isn't it funny how God usually hates the same people YOU do?" I gotta admit- I love that phrase and could never discredit her for using it!
Seems to me that VP gave credit where credit was due in all of his writings as I recall. I don't look at WAY books very often anymore, but I'm sure that in reading them over a 20+ year span that I've come across many footnotes and appendices giving credit to these workers of the Word.
Thumbing through the books I have here --
MOST credit is given to quotes from the Way magazine,
I don't look at WAY books very often anymore, but I'm sure that in reading them over a 20+ year span that I've come across many footnotes and appendices giving credit to these workers of the Word.
In keeping with your signature line, perhaps you could/should revisit those books and refresh your memory. It seems to be in keeping with what you wish to believe to be the truth as opposed to what really is the truth.
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DontWorryBeHappy
"I find it interesting that everybody here attacks me personally. Nobody address the things I say about the word. You keep wanting to make it about VP. Nobody here really knows my thinking on VP or th
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Robs, I think you should STFU.
waysider
OOPS!
excathedra
dear sweetie maybe you're just a bit frenchfried ..... like so many of us......
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dmiller
Potato -- I also bought that copy of Stile's book from Amazon.
Cost me a whopping 5 bucks -- or close to it.
I have the 1970 reprint, not the original 1952 edition,
but read in a twi mind-set -- docvic is all over the place. :(
Now -- If you want a REAL EYE-OPENER --- get a copy of
*HOW TO ENJOY THE BIBLE*, by E. W. Bullinger (originally published in 1916).
((COUGH!!!)) THE SAME YEAR DOCVIC WAS BORN!!!!
The entire PFAL class is in there,
way before snow settled on some gas pumps,
in Ohio, in the summer, that no one else saw.
Docvic probably didn't have an original thought, or *revelation* ever.
That's my IMO.
It seems manifestly evident, by the writings that have preceeded his *works*.
You can find all of docvic's teachings in the books/ writings, of
J. E. Stiles, and E. W. Bullinger.
and I'm willing to bet --
those two never saw snow on gas pumps, in the middle of the summer,
before they published their works.
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potato
hahahahaha!! exxie, well done! now I'm going to be good old fashioned steakhouse fries so I can ask "where's the damned beef?"
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TheInvisibleDan
DMiller,
Ditto on the Bullinger "How to Enjoy..." - though I may not always agree with his interpretations of what he thought to see, he nonetheless produced some very interesting observations along the way. His system is remarkable to me in that it "resurrects" the spirit of Marcion. In so many respects, Bullinger's view of Paul and his emphasis upon the "newness" of his revelation, is identical to Marcion's view.
Check out the works of Clarence Larkin for some more "eye openers" to Wierwille's theological diet. This guy did a knock out job with his illustrations and dispensational charts.
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WordWolf
Would you care to post any examples from Stiles' book?
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potato
I was looking for my RHST book so I could do that, but it seems that when I moved last year I didn't bother to unpack it... guess I really had one foot out the door. I'll have to post as I read, because I'm so curious now I'm going to mark up the RHST book when I find it with page numbers from Stiles' book.
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Nottawayfer
When I was on Staff, one of my responsibilities was to make sure the collection of books in the Trustee conference room were the latest and greatest. One day I was thumbing through How to Enjoy the Bible. I never bought it or read it. It was weird to read because it was worded just like the PFAL class and other books VPW wrote. It struck me as odd, but I was still a good little koolaide drinker.
It seems odd that TWI marketed those books. Did VP think anyone would catch on? Or did he promote that he received the same revelation these great theologians and men did??
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shortfuse
Maybe someone else will remember, but I think the spin was that Dr. Wierwille had discovered all this stuff through his own research, and then found validation in the works of Bullinger who had seen the same things in the Word a generation or two earlier. Funny, it was like validation for us too: "see not only VPW figured out 'four crucified' - here's this guy Bullinger who came to the same conclusion - it must be true!" It never occurred to me to look at that stuff and say, "Dang, VPW sure ripped off the writings of this Bullinger guy!"
Since connecting the dots, it has amazed me that How to Enjoy the Bible is still sold in the Way International Bookstore. Why not include J.E. Stiles book as well?
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shortfuse
The closer they sound to TWI teachings the more counterfeit they must be!
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MountainTopCO
I remember sending my parents a copy of EW Bulinger’s book, to lend some credibility to VPW. Looking back, it is so amazing how the shyster VPW had us mesmerized into believing he was the Apostle. My parents didn’t buy into it.
Can’t wait for Potato to provide more documented evidence revealing how VPW ripped off Stiles.
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Sudo
Mountaintop,
VPW's plagiarism has been documented here before. I think Raf was the one who did it. Line for line Doc Vic stole.
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GrouchoMarxJr
Wierwille was shameless...He even stole the names "Johnny Jumpup, Maggie Muggins and Herman Baloko" from Stiles...The old poop couldn't even come up with his own names. Stole it lock, stock and barrel...and we were the marks. We bit the hook and swallowed the story of the snow on the gas pumps. Wierwille became the king of his kingdom and got filthy rich...
...This guy's rip off, switch and bait scheme was so effective that it's still in existance 21 years after his death. Enough to make Ron Pompeil proud.
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doojable
No snow?????
Now I'm so disillusioned...
NOT!
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WordWolf
The Word-Faith Movement ALL stole from EW Kenyon- including vpw and Osteen.
Which is no guarantee what was stolen was WORTH stealing.
LEONARD.
He stole the names from LEONARD.
He did that when he stole Leonard's class, and his name for his publishing co,
CANADIAN Christian Press.
He stole the class' TEXTBOOK from STILES in the same year.
"Receiving the Holy Spirit Today" was what he called the textbook and
Leonard's class when he was saying it was his OWN class.
(Later termed pfal.)
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WordWolf
IIRC,
the story was that Rosal1nd R1nker (I may have the wrong person) supposedly told him
Bullinger wrote like vpw taught, and gave him his first Bullinger book.
Not much longer after that, vpw WROTE "like Bullinger wrote."
In the same sentences and chapters and books and so on.
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WordWolf
Actually, Raf would tell you it was Juedes that covered this one...
http://www.uia.net/~messiah7/vp_stiles.htm
http://www.uia.net/~messiah7/vp_stolenrthst.htm
But I'd like to see what else was found.
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YIdon'tgotochurch
I have the book, "How to Enjoy Reading the Bible." I promise you it is so incredibly dry and boring that I would have never read it. Yes, almost everything in the book is in PFAL. But I would have never acheived the understanding or belief in or of the Bible by reading that book.
Hence, when I am in conversation and people ask me where I learned so much, I tell them I knew a bunch of people that had studied a 19th century theologian who was more high tech for his time than IBM was for the '50's.
I then describe the desk Bullinger had and the scripts he would compare and the commentaries he sifted through and checked.
I simply give credit to whom it's due. When Christmas comes around, I refer to the authors of JCOPS and Bullinger's Witness of the Stars.
I never thought of VPW or LCM as a substitue for God or Jesus Christ. But I was always thankful someone else studied the material before me and found the relevant items required for me to be able to keep God first and avoid getting hoodwinked by the fairy tales of the religious Christians of my day and time.
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now I see
I also bought the Stiles book about 2 weeks ago from amazon, there's still a few left there, if anyone else is interested. Yes, it is a carbon copy of what we were taught by VP, even the cadence of the book is familiar.
I also bought a few other books by bullinger for comparison, and a copy of the House of Acts.
It makes me wonder what would have happened if VP never went to California and recruited Jimmy Do*p and Steve He*fner. I wonder how much further the Word could have moved with just God backing them, rather than VP. I wonder what their ministries were like, how their ministries worked, how they were so succesfull, before Wierwille injected himself into their ministies.
I feel that so much of what I've learned thru twi was so tainted by Wierwille's slant, his egotism, his hatered of women, blacks, jews, organized religion, his drambuie revelations, his lusts, and his self amassed conglomeration of teachings plagerized from other's works.
I don't even trust my own knowledge of what I thought I knew the Word to mean. Which really sucks....
But I still want to know the truth, I still want a relationship with God....I just wish I had opened my eyes sooner.
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potato
bnis, I question all my beliefs as well. it helps that I get to talk them over with my kids and with another person who left twi at the same time. we both have waybrain but it's sorting out. it's just gonna take some time.
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now I see
Potato,
My sentiments exactly, it's gonna take some time and some work.
Hey, do You realize you're member #2109, and I'm member #2110? It also looks like we joined the same day. ;)
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Stub1
My step-father (who witnessed to my entire family before marrying my mother) has had all those books for many years. Funny how perspectives differ here, isn't it. I have no particular need to blame TWI or VPW for anything, as I was affected in a totally different way. So I have the luxury of being open minded on the 'rip-off' theme. Seems to me that VP gave credit where credit was due in all of his writings as I recall. I don't look at WAY books very often anymore, but I'm sure that in reading them over a 20+ year span that I've come across many footnotes and appendices giving credit to these workers of the Word. I suppose my ex is correct in her signature here on the board where she says something to the effect of "isn't it funny how God usually hates the same people YOU do?" I gotta admit- I love that phrase and could never discredit her for using it!
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dmiller
Thumbing through the books I have here --
MOST credit is given to quotes from the Way magazine,
and articles found there-in. Go figure.
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Belle
In keeping with your signature line, perhaps you could/should revisit those books and refresh your memory.
It seems to be in keeping with what you wish to believe to be the truth as opposed to what really is the truth.
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twinot
Anyone ever hear tell of Stiles finding out of how VPW used his material?
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