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JeffSjo

My splinter group experience as I've shared it here.

101 posts in this topic

I may not have dates like so many of you all but the hurt, pain and anger is still the same. :(

That's OK. It all seems like one of those "Once upon a time" kinda fairy tales after a while, anyhow. (At least my own personal story does.) :P

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Some of your expeience seems familiar to me Oldskool. While for me those types of experiences happened in the splinter group "River Road Fellowship" instead of TWI, it seems to me that in many respects my splinter group has simply continued many of the worst TWI practises.

And now even though everybody ackknowledges that mistakes were made many of my old friends don't have a freaking clue how far Barnard pulled them away from honest and transparent ministerial dealings. Currently I have heard some of them are saying Barnard deserves patience, love, and getting God's Word spoken to him. In the mean time he's cut and run taking many of the young women with him along with some of his most pliable cronies, both men and women.

And consequently I've heard some of my old friends saying of me things as, "I can't talk to Jeff and still expect to help people." But it seems to me as one who saw Barnard use some of my old friends to completely screw ME over that I have the right to expect them to be willing to deal with how they treated me while under Barnard's influence. A sound scripture reference seems to me to expect them to win or lose me as a brother according to their willingness to be honest about what happened to me. If it were Barnard expecting as he did to have the man that he spit on apologize for falling asleep and disrespecting his ministry I would know it was a wicked and abusive power play, but since I want to talk with them about how they helped Barnard and were part of me losing my wife and son that I am being reasonable in expecting their forthrightness. GOD WILL JUDGE.

And that while they say they are holding on to things that Barnard did that are far scumier than anything anyone has the courage to share with me so far they simply have been bamboozled into another pointless and false nobility that has been styled after TWI's lockbox. And furthermore, since they refuse to handle these true events with honesty and transparency they simply hide the damage thay have aided Barnard in committing to many individuals and families. And similar to TWI ex-leadership I am fairly certain that they would not be encouraged to be honest as a witness in any kind of lawsuit as is fairly common such as "Estrangement of Affection" and other things.

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I might as well put this one here. It applies, former friends who keep your mouths shut.....

TWI is concerned about GSC. Many people here share about vile and nasty things that TWI did that led to broken families, PTSD, and even suicide among victims of TWI leadership abuse and delusion.

And while I would be willing to not cast doubt on your intentions as I shared in my first post on this thread...how is it that you are not at all concerned about casting doubt on the motives of TWI victims who decide to keep the truth about the nasty, rotten garbage that was at the rotten center of TWI, which organization once had many of us believing that it was an honest and good organization?

Yeah, I believe you are right about the relatively decent folks who may be involved with TWI doctrine still, but it seems likely to me that they most likely never had Wierwille or Martindale sexually abuse their wives or daughters. They might find themselves a little perturbed in that case, right _______? And then only to have some doofuss come in here to accuse them of wallowing in poop?!

And considering what some of these folks who keep their experiences out there for all of us to see suffered at the hands of TWI leadership it is evident to me that your intentions must come from a place in your mind that ranges somewhere between incredibly f'in insensitive to legitimate victims who suffered much at TWI's hands to, on the other hand, deliberately and intentionally deluded and desiring to keep newbies away from the experiences shared at GSC for you own misguided reasons.

The poop that we see at GSC started with that sociopathic sexual predator by the name of Wierwille and flowed downhill to his own sh!tty children and eventual splinter groups all over the world. If you don't like the smell _______ I would suggest picking a side that is not identical to the TWI loyalists...braniac.

Edited by JeffSjo
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It's too bad people are such good liars, it's too easy to believe somebody who claims to be taught by God. I happen to be, for instance, that the Apostle Paul really was taught by God as the scriptures say, and I happen to believe that the signs from God in the book of Acts in the Lord's name really happened.

But ever since joining TWI in the early eighties up through my time in River Road Fellowship my life seems like a sometimes exceedingly slow education in how much people who claim to be "of God" can be liars. And even through very recently the skill and tools of the lying that went into my personal experience of "River Road Fellowship's" methods of leadership has me wondering just how skillful the leaders or puppetmasters really are, and how gullible and trained the followers are to recognize certain catch phrases and mannerisms as signals for authority regarding whover is doing the leading.

I'm telling the truth, I think some of my old aquaintances would even believe a twenty year old kid that led as TWI leadership did, as long as he was charming and said authoritative things in a certain manner. But all such who learn from the TWI leadership rulebook or any close copy I believe are only destined to lead others into a ditch.

I'm telling you, it can be sickening to consider just how nasty and dishonest the manipulators who successfully hold onto the hearts of many really are.

And is discouraging to realize how gullible others still are.

And it can be maddening to think too long about what is really, really going on with people who obviously are not telling you but a small part of the whole story.

How much easier to simply get the fark away from absolutely everybody associated with these people in any way, form, shape, or manner and start from scratch with a few trusted family and/or other folks. I think such a one would be very fortunate indeed.

(edited for clarity and spelling, a little added too.)

'nuff said for now!

Edited by JeffSjo
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And here I was just thinking about religious groups who are trained like dogs this last weekend too, I'm serious.

I know a group of people (some of who are much younger) who know no other way to relate to authority figures other than responding to few sound bites that the leadership uses to very effectively lead them around by the nose.

I think that for people who know no other way of dealing with authority figures than responding to certain techniques with all the thinking of Pavlovs trained dogs they are bound to be ignorantly led around by whoever knows how to obtain firstly, their affection, then secondly, their unthinking obedience.

And most unfortunately to me, these trained individuals know no other way to percieve the events of the last few years other than following core beliefs that were deliberately planted in them by their trainers....(grumble, mumble, maybe even cuss a bit on my part.)

In my case, it seems that they have virtually no conception of basic honesty issues, and they have a very hard time dealing with simply directness.

And it seems that they cannot deal with people without automatically going along with the deliberate doubts thaty were skillfully implanted in them by their puppetmasters. They quickly are suckered into shutting out anyone who obviously goes against the grain of these things. And even if they don't realize it, they automatically discount anyone who questions those who they have given the power over their lives to be in effect, THEIR DOGTRAINERS.

My perception is that anyone who habitually leads people about like a TWI of RRF leader is revealed by their commands and the skill whereby they effectively control peoples' perception of reality by the way they lead people about exactly like a dog trainer leads about his dogs.

Fortunately for us; dogs do not have the ability to question whether or not they should allow people to lead them about in such a fashion, but we do.

And even leaders who seem to satisfy our needs and make us feel content are not immune to anyone eventually learning to decide not to allow themselves to be led about in such a fashion. But in my experience it is difficult to learn to think again for one's self. But the harm that will eventually and inevitably be done to those being led about exactly as a dog-in-training is much higher! It is worth the fight to first recognize the signs and then change.

Edited by JeffSjo
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While I have been considering just exactly what I will or will not do as concerning the folks I know still involved in the nasty splinter River Road Fellowship rather heavily of late, confusion does not seem to be a present concern of mine. The ones no longer directly involved seem mired in some hidden trained response involving in part, me and my RRF history. And their situation, while different still occupies some concerns of mine and at present very little frank back and forth communication.

My feeling sometimes may be justified by the circumstances but quite often they do not have the most impact on my decisions. I don't trust them, it's just a part of what I work through.

And God will eventually sort it all out, for me and everyone else I believe. But in my experience I often consider that while remembering my many missjudgements.

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Jeff, great posts. Sounds like you've been through a lot. But I can tell that you have a lot of heart. Hang in there. And thanks for sharing.

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Thank you soul searcher and you're welcome.

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To me the sad part about all of this is that I gave my loyalty firstly to TWI and then that nasty little splinter group I was involved in after TWI called River Road Fellowship (Look to the "MY Story" section for the details.) And for me it is evident that not only did I not hold onto the warnings in order to consider them, but add to that that the scum in charge in both cases had my support too.

But the especially galling part for me is that as these groups had my loyalty, my natural zeal for spiritual things was totally misdirected in terms of doing much of anybody any real long term good. In other words everybody that I witnessed to I also ignorantly directed straight into the clutches of an abusive organization whose sickos in charge kept their true proclivities relatively hidden.

Now looking back on it all I remember many things that should have warned me, but even now there are several people whose supposed spirituality will in the long run end up being simply a product of leadership spin and self-serving misdirection. It would be better to never have to learn to recover from being misled in such an evil fashion. And now for me the same cliches that used to hold me captive now sound as empty and hollow as any other blatant lie.

At least something can be said for having the experience to at least possibly giving somebody an effective warning so they need not see the same kind of misdirection that many of us spent our youthful zeal in for lack of wisdom and experience IMO.

You are completely right about these bastards too from my experience. As if doing such terrible things to a family were just a simple matter of excersizing their authority according to their own little twisted world and whim.

And after they do it to folks they paint the ones who complain as "haters" or some such thing therebye more or less insuring that nobody still associated with the group will even listen to their righteous anger.

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My former splinter group leader, Victor Barnard, has at least ten younger women in his control through vows that were taken in their relative youth.

One of them actually came to twig and said,"I'm married to the Christ in Victor." And now I have heard uncomfirmed reports that her parents have left the group and moved back home to Pennsylvania. If I were a betting man I'd bet they didn't leave with their oldest daughter though. :(

Yeah, those stinking vows as pertains to a supposed ministry and supposed MOG, not just gaining followers, but messing with young heads for the rest of their life.

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For the very first time, an old friend of mine has just come out and said it. I heard ABOUT it a little while back, but I just can not talk about stuff that didn't happen to me as boldly as I can share my own stuff, huh?

You know what, there is at least one of my former frinds in RRF who have been cruising GSC for more than a year now. And after all I shared that little ____ has not freakin contacted me. Not only that, Dawn told me that he wouldn't even talk to me because he still wanted to help people.

So I don't freakin know exactly what these people who used to know me are thinking, but some of them are the very ones who told Granddaughter about how bad Victor Barnard has been with the women. These very same people used to believe Victor when he succesfully had them believing that I was the one that was devilish. And many of them had their hand in helping Barnard break up MY FAMILY and make my life in RRF a living hell for several years.

And now the little douchebag GSC lurkers don't even want to talk to me after they made my life hellish.... I don't know what their reasoning is, but IMO it must be seriously messed up, especially the ones who won't talk to me even after they found out how nasty VB is.

This rant has been brought to you by a former River Road Fellowship victim.

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Hi Bride,

The clothing add is still here and funny for me too.....MWAAAHAHAHA. And on top is an add for Minneapolis area singles and an add for earmuffs. chuckle, snort, chuckle

For me it's enough to find that I can reign in those sometimes natural urges treating people with respect and decency is far more important to me than any friggin dress code.

I think the reason why this topic came up for me is because of what Victor Barnard put the women through in River Road Fellowship.

For a while the women were not allowed to wear jeans, and the men were told to not wear them either. The women were told to wear long dresses until in the heat of the summer Barnard decided to be merciful to them and allow them to wear tasteful shorts in the summer heat while they were doing gardening and other outside chores.

Then for a while everybody in leadership was trying to watch everybody's (especially the guys) eyes and where they came to rest. They sought to accuse us foul men of lusting after Barnard's women. What a freakin mess, especially as Barnard has been the one reported to be sleeping with women of all ages and marital staus within the group.

So while I have been put through a bit of a wringer with the rest of River Road Fellowship I hope everybody can understand why some people maybe could use a view of this topic that may help them get away from the insanity in River Road Fellowship.

If I may add another aspect of this... in the splinter group I was in and I will only speak of this because I can from first hand experience, anyhow besides me I have heard that Victor Banard who was the MOG(blah blah blah) has slept with almost all of the women in the ministry. Yes he is his fathers son. But heres my point. As the saying goes you never truely forget your first love...meaning the one you give yourself to. Alot of these girls I have heard he slept with (possibly even my own daughter) were definately virgins, what better way for him to steal, and control their minds and hearts? It's first love and apple trees my foot its more like I'm your first love forget Jesus Christ I have all you need. Yuck!!!!!

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The following I received as a facebook pm from somebody who I used to know in River Road Fellowship. Since I am letting this person remain anonymous I trust that will prove sufficient for me to not have to face charges of "playing unfair" or some such thing.

________________________________

After all, you've never liked me much, Jeff, so why do you want to be my "friend" now? Frankly, I've read some of your stuff on greasespot cafe. I may not be in the ministry any longer, but most of it makes me want to take a shower when I'm done. Try some forgiveness, Bud, before you pass all that anger and bitterness onto your son, whom you obviously love quite a bit. Get on with your life and let it go. You can't change the past.

_________________________________

MY ANSWER:

Well, first of all you are wrong about me not liking you and your mistakes get worse and more presumptions from there, but other than that I guess everything just peachy, huh?

__________________________________

THE FOLLOWING I'M POSTING HERE AT GREASESPOT:

I have decided to just post the best information that I have so that everybody can feel free to confirm or deny things. Victor Barnard and some of his followers, especially most of the younger women have moved to Sedro-Woolley, Washington.

It strikes me as no accident that a look at any map of the U.S. places Barnard's new local places him in the farthest possible corner of the U.S. After all, this guy once was entertaining the possibility of moving River Road Fellowship to Brazil. Considering the broken families that he has left behind I guess Sedro-Woolley is as far away as some of his followers can move considering the divorces and children still involved with him.

Id like to warn the residents of Sedro-Woolley, but this information I still consider uncomfirmed. And besides, after River Road Fellowship kicked me out I found out that the residents of Finlayson, Mn. had a better idea of what Barnard really was than I did. I'm seriously hoping that the residents of Sedro-Woolley can read him and his followers too. but I am worried that he may find fresh followers, uh, er victims.

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THIS IS A SMALL PART OF AN ONLINE CONVERSATION THAT I HAD RECENTLY. I WILL EDIT OUT THE OTHER FELLA'S IDENTITY FOR THE SAKE OF PERSONAL CONSIDERATION.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________

THIS WAS POSTED AT THE GREASESPOT BY SOMEBODY WE BOTH KNOW "name deleted".

If I may add another aspect of this... in the splinter group I was in and I will only speak of this because I can from first hand experience, anyhow besides me I have heard that Victor Banard who was the MOG(blah blah blah) has slept with almost all of the women in the ministry. Yes he is his fathers son. But heres my point. As the saying goes you never truely forget your first love...meaning the one you give yourself to. Alot of these girls I have heard he slept with (possibly even my own daughter) were definately virgins, what better way for him to steal, and control their minds and hearts? It's first love and apple trees my foot its more like I'm your first love forget Jesus Christ I have all you need. Yuck!!!!!

______________________________

(This is where I start to reason w/ him, FYI"

I think that this woman is a ballsy woman. While at the greasespot I have fairly regularly had to confront people who for misplaced religious considerations were either bullying them, casting doubts as to the character of ballsey women who said similar things about Wierwille and "his kids", and made it clear that I would not willingly allow anyone to refer to them as anything other than victims.

And to be perfectly honest I would have great joy in these confrontations if they were needful in person even more than if they happen over the internet...just saying!!!

Now I believe this woman and I believe that some of the next generation after ours that know of River Road Fellowship events commonly talk amoungst themselves of things that you will not even admit to here on facebook "____" I also feel free to point out that I DO NOT BELIEVE YOUR DENIALS "____".

I remember when V.B.'s doctrine was telling us men that we should be eunuchs and he's the man. I now believe that he was twisting scriptures to sate his own lusts. Even then I decided that I was not giving up my balls for V.B.and consequenty it led to the reality that refusing to give in led to me being an outcast with people that I thought of as my brothers.

This is my helpful suggestion for you "____", grow your balls back. I wish that you believed that one of the things that we can do now is to carry out the word of the REAL WORD IN THE FLESH and see that these things are shouted from the housetops and give the younger generation a better example of a living faith than scurrying into the darkness away from the truth of these things everytime somebody tries to shine the true light of day on our darkness.

I will not hold the many people who are content to imply that I can read in between the lines to know what V.B. did to this standard "____", but I choose to present it to you because I really do believe that you are a decent man at heart. and even if I am mistaken about some things at least I am not offering you an alternate path that I myself have not already went down myself.

As far as the things between just you and me, I really don't want to discuss them hear and now with you because I don't believe you are even being honest about these other things that many people seem to know full well as being true.

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THIS IS WHAT I FOUND HAS BEEN POSTED AT THE FACEBOOK PROFILE AFTER THE LAST POST THAT I SHARED WITH YOU ALL HAS BEEN DELETED. AND THIS MAN IS NOT THE SAME ONE THAT I ADDRESSED WITH MY LAST POST.I ALREADY TOLD HIM I'D LEAVE HIM ALONE IF HE DIDN'T QUIT TALKING DOWN TO ME..... I guess some leopard's just cannot change their spots.

_________________________________

"Jeff is an idiot for thinking he can just post anything on my wall.

Somethings are better discussed in private. To bad he didn't "learn" that along with everything else he knows :P

i feel like this is all you talk and think about jeff and prolly most of your friends (if you have any) are people that are like you, find fulfillment in exhausting the subject of religious abuse. you were the one that fell for the things that have upset you so much and thats on you dawg.

do you even wanna be happy?

you got your life, your health, a shot at a really awesome chunk of time before the curtain closes. why not move to the beach and do some mad surfing and party it up for awhile :P

that was a joke but the point is you're clearly unhappy and tho on one hand i could give a dang and am bout to kick you off this bitch cause of ur gloomy side of life you like to push like it's going outta style, i feel like i understand ur position and if nothing else, wish you'd think about gettin a little more positive about things. i doubt you'll be disappointed"

________________________________

(The rest I am posting just here at GSC)

I was already surprised that this guy let the conversation go on so long as he did because it did not go well for them at all.

I was just happy to finally get to talk to a few of the adults who I used to consider as family from River Road Fellowship.

It appears that they can not face the truth of what happened to us without resorting to insulting characterizations of me even though I am only try to help them and am being as freaking gentle as I possibly can considering how badly they were mistreated.

(Edited for the sake of clarity)

Edited by JeffSjo
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THIS ONE I POSTED AS AN ANSWER TO THE OBNOXIOUS,ABUSIVE MAN ON MY OWN PROFILE BECAUSE I WILL DO AS I SAID AND LEAVE HIM ALONE.

Jeff Sjolander----- "NAME DELETEED", I told you I'd leave you alone if you didn't quit talking down to me. Yeah I get religious abuse, you ain't got religion but you got the abuse down. I commented on your last post referring to me in the "My Story" section of the GSC forums.

This one is on my wall too------------------

Jeff Sjolander Thought for the day.....DO NOT INSULT PEOPLE OVER AND OVER WHILE ACCUSING THEM OF BEING HATEFUL!

(Added in editing)

I am not making this up.......

This guy started his facebook thread out by asking if anyone ever considered why he was such an a$$.

Edited by JeffSjo
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In the case of this man who gave me this gem from his experience in RRF I believe it's pretty evident who taught him how to look at people and how to use...uh...er...(I mean) lead them.

"i actually love it when people relate me to my dad... he's a boss on a level that you only wish you could be Jeff S. and if he abused the authority than that's his problem and believe me, he takes responsibility..."

(edited for clarity)

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God first

thanks JeffSjo

God loves you a lot and I do too

with love and a holy kiss Roy

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I deleted the original post and left one with some comments.

Thank you Shellon :wub: for the comment. Now it applies to the post of mine that follows your comment.

Edited by JeffSjo
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Even though I've read this elsewhere before you shared with us here, this one just kills me, still and maybe always........

"my peer"

Jeff Sjo in the whole time you have posted on GSC you have never once taken responsibility for your own problems but have played the poor me card and blamed others. I'd say until you face the t"#2' mom"of yourself that you have no business trying to fix anyone else. You've allowed bitterness to eat away at you so long I question your ability to have a truly spiritual thought.

This arrogance reminds me why I don't like the words 'always' and 'never' when we speak to others or refer to ourselves. He says you've "never once.." and my question to him would be how he could possibly know that.

And therein also lies his assumption that you want to "fix anyone else".

How could he possibly know your motive or intent if he won't participate in some form of communication exchange.

He paints you with a terribly wide brush, if ya ask me.

Maybe he can go the cowards journey and run back a few times, as witnessed in the exchange you have put here, hollar a few ill placed accusations and ASSumptions then run again, but I think we already know that it's sneaky and fearful and such a pizzpoor way of dealing with uncomfortable situations.

I've been looking for another place to use the word douchenozzle and I think it fits here.

(edited cuz the cussing thing would not let me say urine)

Edited by Shellon
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THIS IS MOST ALL OF A RECENT ONLINE CONVERSATION THAT I HAD. I HAVE REMOVED THE NAMES FOR PERSONAL CONSIDERATION AND MOST EMOTICONS BECAUSE THERE WERE TOO MANY. IT WAS NOT A PRIVATE CONVERSATION, EVEN MORE FOLKS COULD READ IT THAN SAW THE RESURRECTED LORD IN HIS NEW BODY.

I'M SURE I WILL COMMENT ON IT LATER WHEN I CAN.

“The father’s son” raddest mother%!$@er in the village at least it feels like it ever wonder why some people are to be taken more seriously than others? cause some of us are more serious than the rest of you why am i such an a$$? maybe cause it's the way of the future folks

“The father’s son”

or maybe i'm just messin with ya.

“The father’s son”

it is not! it's the truth”#2’ mom” lol

Jeff Sjolander

I don't mind a young guy crowing a bit, I want to chuckle about this kid, really. Considering our past though I feel oblidged to point out that once you get people to buy into your version of the future, that is the only future they will have

Jeff Sjolander

and you are not bada$$ to the point where I'm concerned to talk to you about these things

“#2’ mom”

“The father’s son”, “The father’s son”. And here I thought I was the raddest "mother" in the village...

“The father’s son”

lol you are “young man #2’s mom”! for sure... Jeff you gotta listen to some rap brother gettin all serious on us wtf? lmao merry christmas

December 25, 2009

Jeff Sjolander

Gotta call em as I see em. Somebody's gotta, it's about time too IMO.

Jeff Sjolander

considering all the b.s. that we were led into that is....seems reasonable to me.

“Youngman #1”

One conversation. 2 men. 2 different viewpoints. Gotta love it!

Jeff Sjolander

Aww “YM1”, It takes some getting used to; to have differing viewpoints without having to crush the other. For some of you younger folks, that's all you've ever seen!

“The father’s son”

Jeff can we just call you 'thou who imparts wisdom' for awhile? where did you learn all this stuff? lol

Jeff Sjolander

If you can't deal with my points and my intentions “The father’s son” you could stick with the sarcasm. It was often enough for your dad to sway everybody's opinion

“The father’s son”

first of all leave my dad outta this... ya dork that was so outta context freude is rollin over in his grave right now speaking of freude, isn't *sarcasm* the best way to address really smart people?

Jeff Sjolander

As a rule, as I remember things your dad's methods of crowd/ministry control is one of the things that I'm concerned about as far as some of you guys, because.....

#1. Those methods worked on us for the most part.

#2. that is all that some of you have known from an authority figure.

#3 Because of #1 and #2 I'm worried that any number of you are still prone to be led into toxic and possible damaging things....AGAIN!...

“The father’s son”

just bow dawg i think it's time you give me a thumbs up fer bein able to mock you!

Jeff Sjolander

O.K. young man, ha, you get a hearty thumbs up from me, no sweat!

Now, if you'd prefer to get in a conversation where we actually accomplish something.........MWAAAHAHAHA

“The father’s son”

see mr. this is where i think we gotta clarify things... NOTHING NEEDS TO BE ACCOMPLISHED... ur the one that takes after my dad lol... something always has to be addressed and fixed and changed and people need to always be guided and changed and taught and have profitable convo's... not that it matters but it's actually a f___ed up way to approach people.

All he did in the last one was still try to laugh me off but told me my view was F'd up to...another insult.

Jeff Sjolander

Is this the part where you talk about what an azz you are in your first post?

Jeff Sjolander

I guess being concerned about you all is something you say,"Let it the f___ go " to.

Just keep going kiddo, and talk to me about stuff when you are ready.

“The father’s son”

never

“The father’s son”

why are you such a “d---”?

Jeff Sjolander

Because I'm concerned about you and your friends who I know too from back in the day.

Because I know what it's like to have somebody slander me by falsely likening me to my dad, and “my ex” and "you know who" did it to me deliberately and it is a huge part of what led to my broken family.

And because I think for all your bravado you really don't know what you are doing.

Jeff Sjolander

And going back to your first post, do you REALLY know why you are an a$$?

“Youngman #1”

Wow guys.

This is umm... really, serious?

i can appreciate both sides of the argument, i think that's why i'm so intrigued.

but i think one statement that has been heard throughout all of history is applicable- "Every man for himself."

But one point i have to make is this; I've been "out in the real world" long enough now to know a lil bit about life. (and by "a lil bit" i mean more than what most expect of me) He11, I knew a lil bit more about life even before all this, yet is was the adults that refused to give me, or any of the younger people, any credit. Teach, drill, indoctrinate but don't even trust you to know how to handle a situation? Seems a lil like indentured servitude to me?

Think about it.

“The father’s son”, i feel ya.

“Youngman #1”

Why thank you “young man #2”.

Very straight-forward and to the point... I like that.

Haven't heard from ya in awhile, so I'm glad to see that we can still agree on some things.

Jeff Sjolander

I'm happy as you guys stand on your own two feet and one of the things I enjoy after RRF is the ability to think for oneself and make up our own minds. And part of that for me is not quaking even a teeny little bit at vigorous opposition... And I usually face it without making juvenile "just bow..." comments and empty posturing for the sake of self aggrandization.

But if we do not remember history we are only doomed to repeat it and that is definitely something we can all agree that we do not want to happen. and like it or not that guy you don't want to be brought up is a big freaked up part of our past.

So fine you guys, do what you want. But choosing to point out bullsh!t cost me a lot already and it happened in real life and was painted over with a bunch of posturing and bullsh!t so just don't think your opinions back me down even a little bit

But in a free society you have the right to think and do anything you want. In an oppresive and overly controlled environment all opposition must be crushed and/or silenced in the ears and eyes of the public. So yu guys go ahead and do whatever you need to, but this conversation was my attempt to talk with “The father’s son” about sh!t that really matters and I always liked him.

“Youngman #1”

i just never understood one thing:

Who said it's your's, or anybody's, place or position to teach, or even point out things that YOU think might be wrong-doctrine or a problem.

If it's working for him, then why should anybody attempt to intervene? "Don't fix what's not broken."- i like to keep it simple.

Jeff Sjolander

Why bother talking at all, huh?, My motives I state pretty plainly. At least I'm honest about em, and you have the right to decide for yourself.

Jeff Sjolander

And for whatever it's worth, I don't

have a freakin thing to gain from this conversation. Looking back on it isn't that one of the big problems?

“my peer’s wife”

I may not agree completely about everything with these young men but they are definitely onto something. Jeff Sj. maybe you can learn something from them. Forgive and get on with your life. It hard to get on with your life when you wallow in yesterdays mire.

“#2’ mom”

Seems to me Jeff, that three people in the last few days have told you to get over it and get on with your life. Since three is the Biblical number for complete, maybe you ought to at least take it under consideration.

This is what happens when a small group of people cut themselves off from everybody else and can not think outside of the things that get told to them by TWI style leadership. Those years I was there it grew progressively easier for them to keep fooling themselves as to what is significant.

When she tells me that since three people have told me to be quite it is a reference to Bullinger's number in scripture book and I guess cause it was three of them that is suppose to make it significant to me, but IMO it only reveals a mind that hasn't thought outside of it's own little fishbowl in far too long a time.

“my peer”

Jeff Sjo in the whole time you have posted on GSC you have never once taken responsibility for your own problems but have played the poor me card and blamed others. I'd say until you face the truth of yourself that you have no business trying to fix anyone else. You've allowed bitterness to eat away at you so long I question your ability to have a truly spiritual thought.

Apparently this peer of mine thinks I am incapable of a sound thought, like he has a frikin clue! A small man who knows of much nasty sh!t that isn't angry at the abuser, but one of the guys who years ago tried to say, "Barnard is full of sh!t!"

And now he thinks it's ok to continue to think of ME as unfit, while women all around him have been abused and he apparently did nothing to stop it!

IMO it's just a well worn version of TWI highminded, puffed up twerpy judges who don't really know their a$$ from a whole in the ground.

“young man #3”

I hate to budge in on this lovely conversation and put my opinion in but life is too short be ....ed off about sh!t in the past... you just gotta move on no matter how much your life was !@#$ed up in the last 10 years cause b!tch!n about it on facebook isn't gonna change anything

I am still completely ok with youngman#3's take. His family is up the creek without a paddle and I only support him as he attempts to come to grips with a very bad situation.

“The father’s son”

wow...

well i'm gonna go waay deep here.

River Road had a way of prioritizing ministry and tho i'm not going to comment on it i'd like to point out that some ( including Jeff S) still hold this mentality... and it's actually the point of this whole conversation...

i can understand the argument from that angle ( i held it for 18 years but Jeff S. what you have to understand is that not everybody is gonna want to build friendships on the basis of religion or a spiritual standpoint. some of us just wanna be friends despite our religious views... some of us are skeptical about religion and i think for good reason... some of us are just straight up done with the whole idea...

where do i stand?

doesn't matter... k? ... sun's coming up tomorrow regardless...senior's gotta pay the rent ... gotta chill with my friends... gotta text my girl ;) gotta eat... gotta sleep ... gotta think ahead... gotta figure life out you know?

Jeff Sjolander

Well let me just say that after a few years where I was actively resisting the direction and seeking to improve the directions of things in RRF and then after “my ex” and my son were moved away from me and then spending seven months living alone in my house even though you all were around me every day it is actually good for me to get a chance to talk with you all.

Even though you adults still do not approve of the direction I have taken it is good to at least have you come out and actually speak directly with me.

I have much to consider from all of you and this won't be done too quickly, but I'm on it now so here goes

Jeff Sjolander

first you “The father’s son”,

I absolutely do not intend to vex you with your dad's reputation, actions, or any other things. That was done to me and I know how that kind of stuff can hinder honest and open relationships.

FYI, one of the things that has happened to me at GSC that has actually helped me was learning how to relate to people that after getting screwed without the benefit of lube who also chose to walk away from anything bible related. More than once I told uncompa$$ionate douchebag Christians that after what happened to an individual that moved them to leave Christianity after The Way International they deserved empathy, compa$$ion, and/or undestanding.... After what you grew up around I don't think any the less of you for making your choices. But FYI I do find it annoying how you relate to me as "Mr. old-ways" and make reference to your views as "The Future."

But I also consider that maybe this is the kind of break from the past that you need to do. I wish you'd lay off the judgemental parts of your words as pertaining to me though.

Sincerely, Jeff

Jeff Sjolander

"“my peer”

Jeff Sjo in the whole time you have posted on GSC you have never once taken responsibility for your own problems but have played the poor me card and blamed others. I'd say until you face the t”#2’ mom”of yourself that you have no business trying to fix anyone else. You've allowed bitterness to eat away at you so long I question your ability to have ... See Morea truly spiritual thought. Maybe if you let all that sh!t go, you'll have a better shot at doing it right next time.

It's called forgiveness and it's for YOUR benefit regardless of anyone else's response to it. There you go ... you just got some benefit from this conversation, if you take it to heart.

BTW, I am in no way making any excuses for wrongs that have been done, because they have... it's called SIN and we all fall short if you haven't guessed."

“my peer”,

For somebody who had an active part in vexing me about my life and specifically my marriage during those years when life was fighting and resisting every mind game that RRF leadership through at me every day, day after day you are entirely too aggressive you little douche!

For somebody who apparently knows a lot of specific details of "a certain somebody's" sexual activity you seem to have misplaced your aggression. Try directing at someone who has actually done many evil things repeatedly and without turning.

Were those sexual activities reprehensible, disgusting, abusive and sick...ONLY, or were they illegal too? How young were the youngest victims

“The father’s son”

you didn't vex me one bit

i actually love it when people relate me to my dad... he's a boss on a level that you only wish you could be Jeff S. and if he abused the authority than that's his problem and believe me, he takes responsibility...

life breaks you the f___ down. the strongest people think for themselves which is why i refuse to buy into your bullsh!t Jeff. I'd appreciate if you stopped pitching it to me....

if i thought you were on to something i'd listen but ur not and i'm bored as f___

we're all on a quest for t”young man #2’s mom”... we're all playin a game i like to call 'figuring out life'' and the best part is....

you guessed it...

i was born to play

good luck dawg

I can understand why anybody would have a hard time with anybody criticizing their dad, but this young man thinks that his dad's methods are good. And his insults to me I now grow weary of....

For whatever it's worth I believe that as long as this guy leads these other young adults away from dealing with their broken families and abused mothers/friends that he is deliberately still doing his daddy's bidding.

Jeff Sjolander

“young man #3”

I hate to budge in on this lovely conversation and put my opinion in but life is too short be ....ed off about sh!t in the past... you just gotta move on no matter how much your life was !@#$ed up in the last 10 years cause b!tch!n about it on facebook isn't gonna change anything... take care yall

Dear “young man #3”,...

I have worked hard to come to terms with things and I have absolutely nothing against you at all. I hope things stay good between us.

For your consideration I will simply say as a counter point that in the face of broken lives and terrible abuse that sometimes life is too short and too precious to not get a good mad on and desire change and/or accountability.

Jeff Sjolander

Wierwille was an abuser too, and many people still think highly of him too “The father’s son”. Not me......

How is it that I am not letting you think for yourself, by having a contrary opinion?

If you refuse to quit speaking down to me I will leave you be. What other choice do I have?

“young man #3”

i hear ya man, believe me i was ....ed to... seeing that the last 10 years of my life feel like a wasted piece of time but i can't go back and change it so im just moving on.

Jeff Sjolander

Do what you have to do “young man #3”, you'll get no fight from me on that account.

PEACE.

“The father’s son”

d-bag

Jeff Sjolander

“#2’ mom”

Seems to me Jeff, that three people in the last few days have told you to get over it and get on with your life. Siince three is the Biblical number for complete, maybe you ought to at least take it under consideration.

Dear “young man #2’s mom”,

I have taken it under consideration and whether three people of 400 prophets want me to be quite I will not.

And FYI, I will not be quite AND get on with my life.....just watch.

Maybe I should have said,"Do you see how freakin stupid it is to think that just because three of you have said something to me that it is Godly?"

Jeff Sjolander

“young man #2”

it seens that u jeff entered a conversation and took a route that u wanted it to go huh that sounds like what your so against hmm

Hi “young man #2”,

It's been a while and pretty much the first thing I recall every time I think of you is that time that that woman heard how we were when we were working together and then asked us if we were brothers...LMAO. Especially as we really bear absolutely no pyisical resemblence that I can tell....

Still of the same opinion after reading this stuff? If it gets deleted or something no problem, you can still read it in it's entirety because I have been saving it.

“my peer”

Jeff Sjo. How on earth do you place me as someone who had an active part in vexing your life and marriage?

You also insinuate that I know "a lot of specific details" which I do not.

You also imply I am "in the know" regarding illegal activity which I am not. ...

You make all these suggestive comments about me as if they were true... they are NOT!

Then you resort to calling ME a "little douche"? LMAO!

Jeff Sjolander

THIS WAS POSTED AT THE GREASESPOT BY SOMEBODY WE BOTH KNOW "my peer".

If I may add another aspect of this... in the splinter group I was in and I will only speak of this because I can from first hand experience, anyhow besides me I have heard that Victor Banard who was the MOG(blah blah blah) has slept with almost all of the women in the ministry. Yes he is his fathers son. But heres my point. As the saying goes you never truely forget your first love...meaning the one you give yourself to. Alot of these girls I have heard he slept with (possibly even my own daughter) were definately virgins, what better way for him to steal, and control their minds and hearts? It's first love and apple trees my foot its more like I'm your first love forget Jesus Christ I have all you need. Yuck!!!!!

______________________________

Jeff Sjolander

I think that this woman is a ballsy woman. While at the greasespot I have fairly regularly had to confront people who for misplaced religious considerations were either bullying them, casting doubts as to the character of ballsey women who said similar things about Wierwille and "his kids", and made it clear that I would not willingly allow anyone to refer to them as anything other than victims.

And to be perfectly honest I would have great joy in these confrontations if they were needful in person even more than if they happen over the internet...just saying!!!

Now I believe this woman and I believe that some of the next generation after ours that know of River Road Fellowship events commonly talk amoungst themselves of things that you will not even admit to here on facebook "my peer" I also feel free to point out that I DO NOT BELIEVE YOUR DENIALS "my peer".

I remember when V.B.'s doctrine was telling us men that we should be eunuchs and he's the man. I now believe that he was twisting scriptures to sate his own lusts. Even then I decided that I was not giving up my balls for V.B.and consequenty it led to the reality that refusing to give in led to me being an outcast with people that I thought of as my brothers.

This is my helpful suggestion for you "my peer", grow your balls back. I wish that you believed that one of the things that we can do now is to carry out the word of the REAL WORD IN THE FLESH and see that these things are shouted from the housetops and give the younger generation a better example of a living faith than scurrying into the darkness away from the truth of these things everytime somebody tries to shine the true light of day on our darkness.

I will not hold the many people who are content to imply that I can read in between the lines to know what V.B. did to this standard "____", but I choose to present it to you because I really do believe that you are a decent man at heart. and even if I am mistaken about some things at least I am not offering you an alternate path that I myself have not already went down myself.

As far as the things between just you and me, I really don't want to discuss them hear and now with you because I don't believe you are even being honest about these other things that many people seem to know full well as being true

“The father’s son”

Jeff is an idiot for thinking he can just post anything on my wall.

Somethings are better discussed in private. To bad he didn't "learn" that along with everything else he knows :P

i feel like this is all you talk and think about jeff and prolly most of your friends (if you have any) are people that are like you, find fulfillment in exhausting the subject of religious abuse. you were the one that fell for the things that have upset you so much and thats on you dawg....

do you even wanna be happy?

you got your life, your health, a shot at a really awesome chunk of time before the curtain closes. why not move to the beach and do some mad surfing and party it up for awhile :P

that was a joke but the point is you're clearly unhappy and tho on one hand i could give a sh!t and am bout to kick you off this b!tch cause of ur gloomy side of life you like to push like it's going outta style, i feel like i understand ur position and if nothing else, wish you'd think about gettin a little more positive about things. i doubt you'll be disappointed

“#2’ mom”

Amen, “The father’s son”!

It is not stupid to repost our little talk at GSC "My father's son and my "in need of re-masculation (I just made that word up :) ) peer." At least here the mod's do their best to be fair.

COME AND PLAY, OUT IN BROAD DAYLIGHT WITH ME!

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THIS IS PART OF A CONVERSATION (quoting my own words)THAT ALL IN ALL I BELIEVE ENDED UP GOING PRETTY WELL. :) The comment in brackets I added just for here at GSC.

_________________________________

Jeff Sjolander

I am commited to being angry and sinning not "____". And as I have such two very, very good examples in front of my eyes and mentioned in this thread I will continue to do so.

And since we seem to disagree that anger is an acceptible emotion in the face of lies and abuse I guess we'll just have to see how it all comes out in the wash "____".

The "River Road Fellowship" that I remember seemed to relegate anger to the top-dogs and thereby allowed the top-dog to show himself as an avenger/real man. I think the repulsive truth is that his anger being shown off in front of everybody castrated the men and seduced the women into his bed and I AM NOT HAPPY ABOUT IT.

But for my own conscience's sake I work real hard to also inform them as to my view as it pertains to how things really are/was. In order to provoke something a little better in them than the lies and coverup they have simply chosen to live in, not to mention the abandoning of family and friends who have been put through hell in order to party and have a good time. I DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT I AM FIGHTING FOR IS POINTLESS.

At least I'm not holding anything back, that way everybody can make up their own mind. I have no secret knowledge or hidden agenda that I am aware of. And I do not want to bed the women or control anybody's life. And I am certainly not starting another screwed up and abusive ministry like Barnard did where everyone was beaten down and twisted around because of his glaring faults and the insane views he learned from Wierwille.

I think it is far more stressful for me to simply stuff my feelings and not share fully. Especially when these guys have nothing more constructive to bring into the conversation than repeated insults, lies, and halftruths (Which IMO is a more subtle form of lieing). So my stress is doing fine, thank you very much.

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I'm going to go back over the things that I've shared about my little splinter group in the last year-plus since I've come to the greasespot. I hope my quoting of things that I've said before makes sense.

Well, here goes.

What do you say to someone that apparently blames others for every bad thing in his life?

May I make a couple suggestions?

1-get a life

2-get your facts straight

3-get spell check

I am doing just fine thank you

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Welcome to Greasespot Cafe doingjustfinethankyou

Your post here reminds me of the "every and never" words again. I don't see where Jeff blames others for every bad thing in his life. Every bad thing? Sometimes when someone expects others to take accountability for their actions that altered our life other say "you chose to be there, why blame them". That is an excuse, again, so that the one excusing doesn't have to interact, consider, converse or, perhaps, help.

Read what he's said, he lost his wife ! His marriage ! Why would he not want someone to have some sort of accountability for that massive loss in his life? Could he have walked away and given up and not fought for his wife and marriage and their son? Sure he could have and likely saved himself a helluvalot of grief and torment, but it seems to me he's got more integrity and scrap in him than that.

Then he'd be accused of "allowing it to happen" or some other silliness. He took vows with a woman he loved and they bore a son; that's not a small deal and he had every right to not accept the loss of either. I believe that blame is a good thing; maybe it's the word we don't like: blame. Call it whatever works, but he has the right to understand and put the spotlight on those that harmed, hurt, wracked and ruined his, and it seems many others', lives. And by all accounts continue to do so.

Why not? Wouldn't you? Would you lie down and watch your family be ripped out from under your heart and just say "ho hum, whatever"? I hope not.

These forums are tricky in that we can't know a whole lot about a person unless we hang here quite a bit and get a feel for their words, ideas, watch for consistency, and listen with our reading, as it were.

So much for my introduction to you; I do welcome you here. And add that this is the My Story section of this forum; of course implying that it's that person's story. Unless you or I or anyone has actually lived a part of the writers life, we can't possibly refute or contradict or argue with their telling, can we?

Jeff has been given the freedom, here, to tell his story and he's done so with the information he's got, in fact looking for discussion and exchange, but not to be confused with argument of his facts.

I'd bet if you told one of your life's stories here, you attempt to do so with the assurance that it's your story and therefore you hold the copyright to it, by default, 'cuz it's yours; who's to argue with you.

Am I to assume by your 'get your facts straight' comment that you are familiar with Jeff and his story? Then, by all means, share as he's invited.

Again, when we write out a story in a forum such as this, we do have to practice some form of edit for the sake of time, the readers attention span and our own other obligations. I'm 50 years old and if I were to tell EVERY fact of my story, there would be much snoring; it's just too long.

I know, you would suggest that he "tell the story he's told here" with his facts straight. I would again say 'how do you know'.

Get a life. Why is that the quickest retort available; seems like one of those "get over it" excuses, rather than actually giving someone the courtesy of your time and consideration to his story.

Get spellcheck. Read his posts and you'll see how often he edits for "spelling and clarity". Again, isn't it rather unkind to make such a comment as "get spellcheck". Perhaps you are an Editor by trade and spelling errors pizz you off. Understandable but still not neighborly to point out anothers' errors.

I add again, we don't really know each other here, save for a small handful of those that have met, or have been hanging here and elsewhere before Greasespot, so we only have each other's written words with which to get aquainted. We have to exercise patience and kindness.

If someone chooses to tell their story around here, it's not how they do it, it's that they do it. That, as I understand it, is the purpose of this part of the forum.

Get to know us, wander around and see that we're not perfect, there are not a whole lot of judgement calls in this part of the forum. Alot of Greasespot Cafe, in my opinion, is telling what happened, with the eye toward finding the places our experiences fit in our life so that we can live with them and not err on the same side again OR telling what happened so as to perhaps assist another in not having it happen to them.

One voice can carry a long way towards healing if that's what is needed, understanding which is always helpful and clarity as needed.

Regardless, it's his story, my story and you have one; tell us.

Edited by Shellon
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