LIVING HOPE INTERNATIONAL MINISTRIES

[WhiteDove]

Tell ya what, WD.

How's about you tell us all what it was like to live in a Way commune.

You have lived in a Way commune, no?

Indeed I have.

See, the point you can't quite seem to grasp is that it's not about geographic location, it about what happened at those geographic locations. Sure, you may have been to this place or that stringing chairs and what-not, but you were a visitor, plain and simple. You have no concept of what it's like to live a communal lifestyle 24 hours a day. If you do, then please supply some supporting information.

Really?

By the way what does this smoke and mirrors exercise have to do with the question at hand? Did stringing chairs qualify you to decide what someone does 20 years later, Does setting tables in the dinning room give you a clue as to anyone's crimes, at best you learned how to do a mundane job. All this commune living experience amounts to zero credibility for the question at hand. Moving mattresses and mowing grass some 20 years ago, hardly qualifies you to know what a person thinks or does in this time frame. Not to mention by their own admission many have said that they completed the whole program without a clue what was going on. If communal living and being there was the key to credibility in speaking as to guilt, or repentance, then by admission in the posts they prove the lack of relationship. No they relied on others words to do that which no communal living experience could do. One can obviously be geographically present and still not have a clue then again those not present can.

I've never been to Spain-----but I've been to Oklahoma.

[rascal]

One can be geographically present and be clueless, of course, how silly, nobody disputes that. But to claim that our experiences on the wow field or in the way corpes or teachings heard and standards enforced in other states...are false, and our testimonies exaggerations...that you have a realistic understanding as to the real nature of Wierwille and martindale...what was undernieth their public persona and company manners.....well that isn`t very realistic to believe that you have an accurate picture of the entire ministry. So it appears that you try to diminish the value of everybody elses experience and testimony

You Dove, are the one that remains clueless as to the suffering and misery inflicted ministry wide by very cruel, evil men.

[WhiteDove]

He can`t. But he still wants folks to believe that his second hand information is better than everybody elses first hand experiences. He has lost most of his credibility to call into question our testimonies, as we now know that he was not ever an active participant in these programs, so it appears that he is doing his damndest to attempt to destroy or discredit everyone else who present information and experience that is contrary to how he wishes to believe twi had been.

You are incorrect in your assumptions I was quite active. That's why I know what I do and it bothers you so ,because it is not incorrect unlike some quotes posted here....... If I'm so uninformed kindly correct the quote. And exactly what first hand information do you speak from? someone's post, no different than someone's phone call all words, that are not documented. How many crimes were you present at first hand , you got your info from the internet. How would you know what a man has or has not done when you have by your own admission no relationship with his work? Hardly creditable information there. Just a clue here, just because you say it does not mean it is true. Clearly you were not there yet you suppose to tell us how it was. The standard works both ways Rascal if presence is the key to creditability you lack any.

[WhiteDove]

One can be geographically present and be clueless, of course, how silly, nobody disputes that. But to claim that our experiences on the wow field or in the way corpes or teachings heard and standards enforced in other states...are false, and our testimonies exaggerations...that you have a realistic understanding as to the real nature of Wierwille and martindale...what was undernieth their public persona and company manners.....well that isn`t very realistic to believe that you have an accurate picture of the entire ministry. So it appears that you try to diminish the value of everybody elses experience and testimony

You Dove, are the one that remains clueless as to the suffering and misery inflicted ministry wide by very cruel, evil men.

More made up BS show me a post where I have made such a claim on the WoW field . I have consistantly pointed out the obvious that the claims are undocumented and actually gone out of the way to note that does not negate or verify any such claims only records the facts as undocumented.

Edited March 30, 2009 by WhiteDove

[rascal]

Gosh Dove, you changed what I said and attacked me on what YOU say I said. I never intimated that you weren`t active. Please read my quote. What I ACTUALLY said was that you were not active participant in those programs.

You also attack me on the made up premiss that I claimed to know a man or his work. I never ever said that. Are you being deliberately dishonest? Do you feel thathave anything goes in your smack downs? Why is it you feel that such nastiness is acceptable? I corrected you on your misrepresentation of my position, and yet you persist on your unwarranted snide and nastiness.

I think to continue to answere your silliness simply feeds into your feelings of self importance.

[WhiteDove]

Gosh Dove, you changed what I said and attacked me on what YOU say I said. I never intimated that you weren`t active. Please read my quote. What I ACTUALLY said was that you were not active participant in those programs.

And that is incorrect. as stated.

You also attack me on the made up premiss that I claimed to know a man or his work. I never ever said that. Are you being deliberately dishonest? Do you feel thathave anything goes in your smack downs? Why is it you feel that such nastiness is acceptable? I corrected you on your misrepresentation of my position, and yet you persist on your unwarranted snide and nastiness.

Really ? What a laugh.....

Quote #110

They have built their houses on rotten flawed foundations...sure sure, it looks like they have been repaired, strengthened, BUT .. no matter how pretty the structures they have erected on the flawed foundation, they cannot stand.

I think to continue to answere your silliness simply feeds into your feelings of self importance.

Edited March 30, 2009 by WhiteDove

[rascal]

I know how rotten and flawed the foundational teachings are on which this man built his ministry. no matter what he has changed. He still venerates wierwille. That is enough to indicate to me that there is a serious lack of understanding of spiritual matters, and presents credibility issue if one wants to be a representative of God.

If he is aware of wierwilles madness, which according to DWBH he was....then it becomes a character issue as well.

Sorry, I just don`t have another decade or two to invest in someone elses ministry on the chance that they might have changed... twi sucked me dry. Until VF or any other off shoot leader has the courage to publicly distance themself from wierwille, his doctrine, and his practices, then they are to be regarded with suspicion.

Edited March 30, 2009 by rascal

[waysider]

WD

Perhaps you can help me clarify some information.

On multiple occasions, you have stated you were never in the Corps, Fellow Laborers or The WOW program.

Yet, now, when I have referenced your lack of experiences living in Way style communes, you say, a few posts back, that you have, in fact, spent time living in one of these communal arrangements. Can you elaborate on the type and extent of involvement you experienced while living in said programs?

Edited March 30, 2009 by waysider

[Tzaia]

I often knew things going on at Emporia before those who were there did, when visiting I'd ask about so and so , they had no clue.....

So did that make you well informed or a busy-body?