Ministry theme 2009-10

[chockfull]

[disclaimer: I don't know RR - never met her - never plan to] The structure of TWI doesn't take into account anyone's "pull" other than the people who have the power to put people in RR's position. This dynamic was made obvious in LCM's ascension.

People do not have that power. Position is attained through political maneuvering as with any company, government, etc. Those in office have Machiavellian traits.

The "crazy" part about anyone from TWI going to a church to talk about how Jesus acted in the gospels is that:

1. TWI cherry picks from the gospels and when push comes to shove, believes they are strictly "for our learning." Therefore...

2. TWI hasn't a clue about how Jesus acted, or if it does, chooses to ignore whatever doesn't work with its doctrine.

They ought to go to churches to learn not to judge their brothers and sisters, act elitist, and be Pharisees.

Furthermore, TWI's entire "structure" is not based on the corporate worship culture, it's more about small groups, which ironically are led like mega churches where all the off-site campuses are linked through video hookup.

The idea of the small autonomous group is one of the few genuine things TWI has had to offer in its history. They are better if not under the authority of a group. Some orgs have run with that, like Promise Keepers and others.

Actually, she continues to lead everyone off a cliff, only it's far more subtle than LCM. The contrast is in the method. FWIW, LCM didn't ever make you wonder where he stood on stuff. RR strikes me as being a heck of a poker player.

Her leadership style builds lemmings. What do lemmings do? They run off cliffs. It's inevitable.

[copenhagen]

Well said chockfull !!!!!!!

[Twinky]

As I am reading this, I note the following:

17 User(s) are reading this topic

1 members, 15 guests, 1 anonymous users

The 1 member is me.

Leaves me wondering if the 15 guests and the 1 anonymous member are covert Innies seeking a way out.

Or maybe some of them are TWI "security". Hi, Mr Linder!

[markomalley]

As I am reading this, I note the following:

17 User(s) are reading this topic

1 members, 15 guests, 1 anonymous users

The 1 member is me.

Leaves me wondering if the 15 guests and the 1 anonymous member are covert Innies seeking a way out.

Or maybe some of them are TWI "security". Hi, Mr Linder!

The guests are web crawling robots indexing web pages for search engines like Google and Yahoo. At least most of them.

[Ham]

Had she said, "hey, lets all go to churches sometimes, and talk about how Jesus Acted in the gospels" I think she would have lost her position.

That's the whole point, isn't it? She LOVES her POSITION. Probably worships it every morning..

Position, money, prestige.. isn't that kinda like.. mammon?

the last picture they publicized of her.. its somewhere on the main page. I see a striking resemblence on her lips to the vicster's arse..

she's PAID for the position.. by gawd, even loy isn't going to stand in her way..

[skyrider]

Music and productions she's taken from being relatively decent Christian music to elevator music drivel that is openly mocked on The Soup. Publications the same. Teachings the same. Advances the same. Anything she touches and "organizes" basically has the life sucked out of it and is left a structured shell. She has visions of bringing all the Corps in who trained under previous leaders to see "the heart of HQ". No leaders ever go out from HQ to help develop work anywhere. Only on secretive missions.

.....She has visions of bringing all the Corps in who trained under previous leaders to see "the heart of HQ".

Wierwille kept bringing corps grads back........it's called INDOCTRINATION.

Only the narcissist leader does things right....others just don't measure up, ever!!!

Thanks chockfull, for such insightful posts.

[Twinky]

"Making God our Sufficiency"

I'd like to see the trustees putting this into practice.

Out together as a WoW family in some small Alaskan or West Virginia or Mississippi town (somewhere a little remote or Bible belt).

Let out to play with $200 in their pocket, an elderly car, and a small suitcase of clothes. No recourse to other funds.

Required to find a 4 or 5 hour/day job within a week and their own house to live in.

Given a target of getting 3 classes together in 6 months, with no-one dropping out.

At the end of the six months, THEN they might have something to share, genuinely, about making God their sufficiency - in the physical sense.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

Maybe if we address some issues about how God really is our sufficiency, it will help some innies who are still in, some who are still recovering from TWI-speak, and help them see that there is plenty of Godly sufficiency outside TWI.

Maybe if WE address some issues?...Are you assuming that we at GreaseSpot are all "likeminded" bible believers?...

Is this a Christian website?...If God is our sufficiency, He's a done a .... poor job....or maybe it's MY fault because I didn't operate the law of believing properly?...barf.

[Twinky]

No, Groucho, but you can take things the wrong way if you wish. It's your right (or wrong).

I think we can be likeminded that whatever TWI is preaching about it...is probably wrong. And that we would both like to rescue anyone still "in."

If you want to debate anything else raised in your post - see you in Doctrinal.

[Oakspear]

Wierwille built his cult by building personal power & loyalty and selling us on a fake bill of goods

Martindale wrecked his cult by assuming that the personal power & loyalty would carry over and rebuilt using fear and intimidation

Rivenbark knows that she doesn't have the charisma of Wierwille or the fire of Martindale and maintains her cult through manipulation

[Oakspear]

Something that usually annoyed me about "ministry" themes was that everything had to be jammed into them. If the theme was "Living Sanctified" no matter what you were teaching about had to have the word "sanctified" in there somewhere.

You still heard the same insipid teachings every year, they just used different terminology:

Sanctified in Outreach

Living Abundantly in Outreach

God's Sufficiency in Outreach

Prevailing in Outreach

Outreach: The Way of Holiness

Ambassadors for Christ in Outreach

ad nauseum...

All the same teaching.

Then of course the important sounding "research" into Greek words that accompanied each new theme with Way Corps who could barely speak proper English lecturing us on Greek words.

[chockfull]

Actually, having the decade long titles is the lazy man's way out from having to come up with anything original. This way they can keep recycling the same snoozefest teachings for another 10 years.

So....

Living the Word's Way in Outreach can be recycled from

Decade of Prevailing in Outreach

You see, now instead of having to take an honest look at the strategy and seeing actually what was accomplished in the "Decade of Prevaialing" in outreach, they can just change the title, bring out the old notes, update a few terms from "Prevailing" to "Living the Word's Way" and voila, 10 more years of boring people to sleep.

I could suggest an improvement. They could call this 10 years "How to Do More With Less". Then it would be actually accurate. Less people, less money, less jobs, less health, less excitement. See - "How to Do More With Less in Outreach". Awesome. Accurate.

What, Highway? You think it should be "Prevailing upon God's Sufficiency"?

No, actually it should be "Prevailing upon the Sufficiency of Any Living or Dead Relative". That would be the only way they'll buy a house and the only way many members keep cars fixed and stay out of debt. Unless of course you're on the Prez Cabinet, then your 80k+ salary siphoned off the hamsters on the wheel can prevail to sufficiently purchase you a nice fixer-upper in the thriving metropolis of New KneeKnocksville.

Edited September 16, 2009 by chockfull

[Twinky]

$80K????

That would be living on a need basis, of course....

[Bishop]

Wierwille built his cult by building personal power & loyalty and selling us on a fake bill of goods

Martindale wrecked his cult by assuming that the personal power & loyalty would carry over and rebuilt using fear and intimidation

Rivenbark knows that she doesn't have the charisma of Wierwille or the fire of Martindale and maintains her cult through manipulation

Rev. Rivenbark is a good person . . . . a pastor . . . . she heals peoples hearts.

[waysider]

She was an integral part of the process that supplied VPW and LCM with innocent young woman to drug, rape and otherwise abuse.

She has never offered a public apology or acknowledgment of her complicity.

In fact, she flat out lied about it when confronted by legal personnel.

What, pray tell, has she done that absolves her and sets her in the position of pastoring?

How can she help people "heal their hearts" when she was a key player in the origination of their sorrows?

Allow me to state it a bit more bluntly.

"Can a pimp change its spots?"

Edited September 17, 2009 by waysider

[Oakspear]

Rev. Rivenbark is a good person . . . . a pastor . . . . she heals peoples hearts.

<_< :unsure: :blink: :wacko: :o

[Bishop]

She was an integral part of the process that supplied VPW and LCM with innocent young woman to drug, rape and otherwise abuse.

She has never offered a public apology or acknowledgment of her complicity.

In fact, she flat out lied about it when confronted by legal personnel.

What, pray tell, has she done that absolves her and sets her in the position of pastoring?

How can she help people "heal their hearts" when she was a key player in the origination of their sorrows?

Allow me to state it a bit more bluntly.

"Can a pimp change its spots?"

Well she IS a healer of God's ppl. The prophesy declared it when she took over the ministry. Idk why or if she did those things . . . maybe she changed, or didn't understand what she was doing. No way to know for sure. The important thing is that was in the past. right?

[Bolshevik]

Rev. Rivenbark is a good person . . . . a pastor . . . . she heals peoples hearts.

Uh, have you met her?

She crushes people from afar. When she can.

[geisha779]

Well she IS a healer of God's ppl. The prophesy declared it when she took over the ministry. Idk why or if she did those things . . . maybe she changed, or didn't understand what she was doing. No way to know for sure. The important thing is that was in the past. right?

How do you not understand what you are doing when you are pimping young girls for someone? Seriously. . . . how? Bring a man a young girl for sex. . . . simple enough premise. . . . . . show her the ACORN tapes.

True Pastors know not to pimp the flock. Pretty straight forward.

If she had changed. . . . TWI would have renounced their false teachings and reached out to the Christian church. . . . similar to what a faction of the Church of God did when they changed.

Edited September 17, 2009 by geisha779

[Oakspear]

Well she IS a healer of God's ppl. The prophesy declared it when she took over the ministry.

Put aside for a second my personal belief that these types of "prophecies" are fake, who spoke this prophecy over her? Why should we trust the words of whoever that was?

Of course you can believe whatever you want, but if you're going to engage in a discussion, then you're going to have to produce more evidence of her being a healer than somebody said that she would be one. can you say "circular reasoning"?

Idk why or if she did those things . . . maybe she changed, or didn't understand what she was doing.

You don't care? That statement says a lot right there.

No way to know for sure.

Some of it you can know for sure because she admitted it while being deposed for a court hearing.

The important thing is that was in the past. right?

No, that's not the important thing! TWI abusers have long used the tactic of declaring something "in the past" to avoid taking responsibility for their actions.

[Bishop]

Put aside for a second my personal belief that these types of "prophecies" are fake, who spoke this prophecy over her? Why should we trust the words of whoever that was?

Of course you can believe whatever you want, but if you're going to engage in a discussion, then you're going to have to produce more evidence of her being a healer than somebody said that she would be one. can you say "circular reasoning"?

You don't care? That statement says a lot right there.

Some of it you can know for sure because she admitted it while being deposed for a court hearing.

No, that's not the important thing! TWI abusers have long used the tactic of declaring something "in the past" to avoid taking responsibility for their actions.

Alright mr. evidence. How about this sample video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VPcPCwK_G0

These guys look happy as larks . . . no abuse there.

Obviously there has been a lot of healing under her leadership . . .

[Oakspear]

Well larks have very small brains...

These guys look happy too

[Tzaia]

Alright mr. evidence. How about this sample video:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=0VPcPCwK_G0

These guys look happy as larks . . . no abuse there.

Obviously there has been a lot of healing under her leadership . . .

I'm pretty sure God himself told them to stop doing that.

[waysider]

Are we really using this atrocious video to "prove" RR is a "good person"?

I was hoping for something a bit more concrete and directly connected.

[RumRunner]

Wow - finally some entertainment again! Keep going Bishop - your posts in support of the vicious bag of excrement in Ohio are really great - livens up my evening and everything. Kinda like listening to someone with severe Stockholm Syndrome...tragic but darned entertaining. Wadaya want next - maybe to try and pimp out some GSC ladies for the sexual entertainment of Rivenbark et al? Bring 'em back into that great sexual submission they were subjected to in that con job cult of exploit and derision of women who had some guts?

Poor baby you - read the mission statement here - it's to "tell the other side of the story"

Anyway - lookie here Bishop - if you send me a bank cashier's check for $1500.00 (USD) I'll let you visit my tent of doom and even give you a "word of wisdom."