[sky4it]

Most people don’t know that Ozzie Osbourne is a confessed member of the Christian church. Ozzie got the bad rap for the now famous horned fingers sign, but the truth was Ozzie mostly flashed the peace sign, and the horned finger devil sign was flashed by more so by other members of his band. Ozzie has always denied being a Satanist. According to the record Ozzie was fired by his own band. The questions is what really happened that Ozzie collected all the grief for going along with things, he never wanted or did?

Ozzie made one big mistake, that was it, and after that he was the worst person ever to sing a song. The mistake was the naming of his original band, Black Sabbath. The question is, how it happened. Nobody knows, Ozzie has never said. It’s my theory that Ozzie, a man who loved Jesus Christ, got up one morning after reading his bible and had a real real hard time, with the fact that Jesus in the bible was always taking abuse on the Sabbath. It was on the Sabbath after all when most of the murder plots to arrest Christ happened. It’s my belief, that Ozzie did it as a pun. He did it to poke fun at all of us, for what happened to Jesus Christ on the Sabbath some two millenium ago. And the thing is, you can’t say that is not what happened. Ozzie has taken more abuse, more hate, more ranting at him, than any man in history for one mistake. I bet you if someone asked Ozzie if he had one do over what would it be? I can’t imagine that it would be anything else. You know the man is really a talented singer too, he has a gifted voice for song.

Everytime I see Ozzie on TV, I am actually shocked at a man who is hurting as bad as Ozzie. You know the bible verses that talk about Jesus coming to save that which is lost, and they were condemning Jesus for that? I can’t imagine that the same situation has ever unfolded anymore than in the person of Ozzie. When Ozzie talks some time he can only get about 3 sylables out of his mouth. And then people stand around and mock and laugh at him. And then they think its because he has lost his mind. I don’t think so. I think Ozzie just can’t or won’t or doesn’t want to say to many more syllables because of all the abuse he has taken by gossip and misplaced hate over the years. The question is was Ozzie wrong to name his band Black Sabbath? He certainly wasn’t notifying people that something good happened there two thousand years ago. Futhermore, one would think that would be up to God and Jesus Christ. Based upon the love God and Jesus showed people who were considered sick because of there sin in the Bible, I hardly see where the same Jesus would shame Ozzie for it. But there is a much larger issue here than the naming of the band Black Sabbath. The larger issue is how people through gossip have destroyed the life of a man who really is just a down and out really nice descent guy. Ozzie has been married twice, and he is very much into doing things to help his kids and family. Ozzie loves his family, he will hardly do one thing without them. Sounds like a pretty descent guy to me. Ozzie with all the gossip he has taken, should just have a sign on him that reads, this is what happens when you make a mistake and how you get perpetually blamed for it for a lifetime. The unthinkable thing is, is how do you know, God didn’t give Ozzie a ticket just like that to show everyone how awful with our mouths everyone can be for just one thing. Here is the goofy thing, since Ozzie has never said why he did that, it’s possible Ozzie may have wanted exactly that one for his Saviour Jesus Christ. I have met a few people in my life that are Ozzie like. They say three words and can’t choke out another one because they are so full of other peoples anger, venting and rage. And the goofy thing is these people, are perfectly well balanced citizens that hold down full time jobs and work hard all the time. I actually know this one guy who talks in such a soft low voice nobody can hear anything he says. I think he does it because nobody ever cared a lick about anything he ever said or did.

When you think about it, it really kind of makes sense. Ozzie has always been kind of a prankster. You know, when you do something a certain way, but have your own reasons why you did it, and you wont let know body else in on why you did. And people that do that, do it, because they want to teach everybody a lesson, that they are not easy business on the issue at all. If that is why Ozzie did it, it kind of makes Ozzie the biggest and greatest prankster of them all.

The other thing is that Ozzie is hardly ever sensible about things that he takes seriously. Ozzie is not sensible about them, because nobody takes what is important to Ozzie seriously. The proof of that is what happened on Sabbath days two millenium ago, isn’t or hasn’t been so much as a remote issue, anywhere you go. What I mean by that is nobody takes all the various murder scheming that went on particularily on Sabbath days, with any particular reason as to why it happened just so. The fact that those events occurred mostly only on Sabbath days, and that its has some incredible relevance, I only learned through watching the life of Ozzie Osborne. Also if one ever reads the story of what happened in Ozzie’s life, he is pretty much like a pin ball that bounced off other people whose deeds were considered evil or of Satan, he bounced off them and landed in another spot.

Ozzie rode one horse, and only one, into this life and he is going to ride that same horse out. The crazy nutty thing is, that he may have taught people a lesson about the horrors of gossip that you couldn’t possibly fathom any other way. You pretty much have to fall asleep to understand Ozzie Osborne, and I think that is the one he has been trying to tell everyone all along, that we are all asleep on what were doing.

What all this means, I think, is your pretty much way better off having one Ozzie like friend who rarely if ever says a bad word about anyone, then 10 friends that are running around gossiping about you behind your back.

Ozzie is like the only person on the planet that if you tell the wrong person that you like Ozzie, you pretty much knock yourself out or dismantle yourself just for that. Of course, by saying that I am excluding people who are notorious criminals and such. The problem is that Ozzie has never harmed, damaged or ruined another person his entire life. Ozzie has kind of been like a large wing of a hospital ward his entire life, showing care for people who are wrecks or total messes, the kind of people others totally ignore. That is pretty much the story of his entire life. That people that really like Ozzie are pretty much the people that cannot find any reason, as in so much as 1,2, or 3 words, to explain the corruption, anger, evils, and horrors of life in and around them. They can’t find the reason in it, because there really isn’t any single good one.

[Twinky]

I heard him talking, okay slurring, on the radio the other day. He can't speak at all clearly. Apparently he has had a stroke.

The real powerhouse in that family is his wife Sharon. You don't want to get in her way.

Is he a Christian? We'll all find out one day. You can ask him why he called the band Black Sabbath, at that time. Maybe it's "long" for BS.

[cheranne]

I love Ozzy!

[Shellon]

I don't understand the "sometimes, always and never" thinking of Ozzy. I'm not sure he needs such defense. I don't understand what's the difference between him or you or me.

We all live our lives, we all get misunderstood. He was or is some celebrity that has to carry the title seems the only difference to me.

I don't see him as any more iconic than you are or I am.

Nor do I assume anything about him or his life or his medical concerns.

I guess I don't get it; what is the point you wish to make, I'd like to understand.

[GarthP2000]

Actually, Ozzie was fired from Black Sabbath cuz he often showed up so damned stoned/drunk during recording/playing sessions.

"Vocalist Ozzy Osbourne's drinking led to his firing from the band in 1979 and was replaced by former Rainbow vocalist Ronnie James Dio." - from Wikipedia

And if that's your example of a Christian artist, .....

[waysider]

From the same Wiki:

"While playing shows in England in 1969, the band discovered they were being mistaken for another English group named Earth, and decided to change their name again. A movie theatre across the street from the band's rehearsal room was showing the 1963 Boris Karloff horror film Black Sabbath. While watching people line up to see the film, Butler noted that it was "strange that people spend so much money to see scary movies".[10] Following that, Osbourne wrote the lyrics for a song called "Black Sabbath," which was inspired by the work of occult writer Dennis Wheatley,[11][12] along with a vision that Butler had of a black-hooded figure standing at the foot of his bed.[13] Making use of the musical tritone, also known as "The Devil's Interval",[14] the song's ominous sound and dark lyrics pushed the band in a darker direction,[15][16] a stark contrast to the popular music of the late 1960s, which was dominated by flower power, folk music, and hippie culture. Inspired by the new sound, the band changed their name to Black Sabbath in August 1969,[17] and made the decision to focus on writing similar material, in an attempt to create the musical equivalent of horror films."

[sky4it]

waysider, on 06 October 2009 - 06:54 PM, said:

From the same Wiki:

"While playing shows in England in 1969, the band discovered they were being mistaken for another English group named Earth, and decided to change their name again. A movie theatre across the street from the band's rehearsal room was showing the 1963 Boris Karloff horror film Black Sabbath. While watching people line up to see the film, Butler noted that it was "strange that people spend so much money to see scary movies".[10] Following that, Osbourne wrote the lyrics for a song called "Black Sabbath," which was inspired by the work of occult writer Dennis Wheatley,[11][12] along with a vision that Butler had of a black-hooded figure standing at the foot of his bed.[13] Making use of the musical tritone, also known as "The Devil's Interval",[14] the song's ominous sound and dark lyrics pushed the band in a darker direction,[15][16] a stark contrast to the popular music of the late 1960s, which was dominated by flower power, folk music, and hippie culture. Inspired by the new sound, the band changed their name to Black Sabbath in August 1969,[17] and made the decision to focus on writing similar material, in an attempt to create the musical equivalent of horror films."

Yesteryear WAS SO MUCH FUN, for people like Ozzie.

I don’t know a thing about that, but the more relevant thing is that whatever it is, it is lifeless. The more significant relevance is that the Sabbath day 2000 years ago was a day of heaviness continually for Jesus Christ, where murder plots against his life were done continually on the Sabbath.

As far as steeping Ozzie into the occult, Ozzie has always denied that. I also read a report that Ozzie threw or gave( not sure) a book of Alister Crowley’s at/to someone else. Did he give it to the guy or throw it? I dunno, but one thing is certain about the era. Alsiter Crowley’s writings, who was a devout Satanist were commonly around rock bands of that era. The most stunning story that is out there was that of Jimmy Page of Led Zepplin, who was reported to be deeply involved in the occult, which according to the story I read was after the band broke up. I have always loved the music of Led Zepplin, and Robert Plant is one of my favorite performers. Do I hold contempt against Robert Plant because of Jimmy’s Pages involvement in the occult? Not at all, not one bit, they are different people. BTW, there are zillions of people who loved Led Zepplins music, I don’t see ANY as in not one single person smashing the group because of Jimmy Page’s alleged involvment in Satanism. (Oh there might be a few, but those that do call Led Zepplin Satanists, are basically on the fringe or extreme of what most people consider ordinary contemporary views.) If people are going to be fair you might as well go paint some Satan symbol on ALL the Led Zepplin members too. Why is the black eye on Led Zepplin and not Ozzie Osborne? Chiefly because of the involvement of Jimmy Page in the occult that is why. According to the story I read, Jimmy Page at one time sounded like an occult practionier, at least at one time. Which is simply the reason that: Led Zepplin was way more deeply involved in the occult than Ozzie Osborne ever was. You know there might be some guy who lives two blocks down the road from me too who is into some weird stuff, but that hardly makes me or anyone around him responsible for what he is doing.

Would I be not interested in music by Jimmy Page if he was a Satanist? I would not be interested in it at all, I wouldnt want to hear a lick of it, BECAUSE IT WAS WEIRD WACK OFF THE PLANET. The story that circulated about Page was that he was writing music under the influence of the occult and the lyrics were so bizarre and disfunctional, to call it a song would have been an disgrace. Of course, I am paraphrasing somewhat from doing some browsing on the subject that I did sometime ago at my local bookstore.

Or how about the Rolling Stones? The rolling stones have songs that the lyrics are spent in glorifying and honoring the Devil or Satan. “Dancing with Mr. D.” People sing these lyrics, does anyone ever stop and know what they are singing too? Most people don’t even care. But the same people always have to worry about Ozzie and why he named his band Black Sabbath. Astonishing logic there.

But in some peoples minds Ozzie always has to be close to the Prince of Darkness. It’s a bunch of hooey and baloney about Ozzie always has been, otherwise why was he always so careful to out and out deny involvement in Satanism. In fact, Ozzie has always acted hurt and appalled by the allegation that he was in any way shape or form involved in the occult at all.

This post has been edited by sky4it: 06 October 2009 - 11:53 PM

[waysider]

I'm not sure where you're going with this.
Can you explain?

[sky4it]

cheranne, on 06 October 2009 - 01:49 PM, said:

I love Ozzy!

Me Too.

You know how there is that clique “holier than thou?” If you ask a person wether they like Ozzie or not, (I think), it’s the perfect litmus test. If they no, then they are holier than thou, if they say yes, then definintely not holier than thou. The ones that say NO would say, well I haven’t done the things Ozzie has done. Maybe so Maybe not. But if one didn’t commit the sins Ozzie did, what are they then jealous? Because sin is supposed to be harmful and how can someone be jealous of someone who is harming themselves? That is the great distinction to in the bible, between sinners who need salvation from harming themselves, and those who think sin is adorable and something to get by with for fun. It’s also the gleeful sinner, that doesn’t care a lick about God and Jesus, except for safety belt sake with others and to put on a big show about it. Also. facts are facts, and very few people have spent there entire lives helping the down and out and what one of my friends called the “unloveable.” That all Ozzie was ever about, and its pretty stinking tough day not to like a guy like that.

As far as Ozzie slurring his speech, Ozzie is rather repugnant about not repeating himself over and over. If someone is asking him the same question over and over, maybe he figures if he slurs his speech they will get it that way. Ozzie is a character that way, always has been, and maybe maybe he’s just plain hurt that they keep asking.

Did it bother Ozzie that he named his band Black Sabbath,? Not only did it bother Ozzie, he was in fact PARANOID about it.





It’s rather unusual that you hear any singer sing one of there songs live and perform better than there soundtrack. Its simply hard to repeat, because they get to stroke the flame just right in the studio. Ozzie actually outperfomed his own soundtrack with that performance. Sometimes I listen to that song and it puts goosebumps on me. That song, without a live performance from Ozzie doesn’t do the song justice.

[waysider]

I don't dig his music.
Never have. Not my cup of tea.
Does that mean I'm anti Ozzy?
I don't think so.
It just means I don't dig his music.

It's important to distinguish the difference between art and the artist.

[GarthP2000]

Quote

In fact, Ozzie has always acted hurt and appalled by the allegation that he was in any way shape or form involved in the occult at all.

Then he shouldn't have 'dressed the part'. 'Played the part'. It's like someone saying that they are against all the _bloody violence_ depicted in horror flicks, then going to see just about every horror flick you can get your hands on. ... Ie., Ozzie was no 'Christian'.

Oh by the way, I like a good part of Ozzie's music, so spare me the "you're holier-than-thou" argument. But lets be honest about where the guy is coming from, okay? Ie., Ozzie's no practicing Christian, at least not in the fundamentalist sense of the term. And such is the case with a lot of musicians/celebrities. Ie., they put up that 'spiritual facade' as a front. ... to get more sales.

At least Kirk Cameron was more honest about his 'spirituality' in this respect.

[Shellon]

Again with the 'always and never' stuff. Few things are so black or white sky4it, it's just not realistic.

I liked some of Ozzy's music too, grew up on that stuff, other of his stuff didn't do it for me and I rarely, if ever, listen to it now. Regardless, my relationship with God or lack thereof, is not related at all, nor is it a necessary connection.

Since this is America, we get to choose; both our music and our God. Or not.

Regardless, one can not just say "if you......, then you're ....."

[geisha779]

I don't like Ozzy. . . . I must be holier than thou( ). . . . as an aside. . . . my son met Sharon Osbourne when he had his final audition for America's Got Talent. She had been a little under the weather and production stopped cold on her say so. . . . that is a big operation. . . . she has some serious clout. It was right before my kid's performance. . . . he waited until the next night.

This post has been edited by geisha779: 07 October 2009 - 09:27 PM

[bowtwi]

Geesh, geish! Your kid was on America's Got Talent? How'd he do? How'd he like it?

[geisha779]

bowtwi, on 07 October 2009 - 10:27 PM, said:

Geesh, geish! Your kid was on America's Got Talent? How'd he do? How'd he like it?

He made it through the round of auditions to get to try out for the panel on the show. . . . . it starts locally and then you try out a few times with the producers. . . . then they fly you to CA. to audition for Hasselhoff, Osbourne, and the other guy. . . . he didn't make it on the show. . . . he is a really talented kid. . . . a musician. . . . but, it is kind of random. . . . he enjoyed the experience.

My son became friendly with the guy who eventually won this year. . . . Ian, my son, auditioned right after him and they hung out together. . . . the man who won and his wife are genuinely nice people. . . . Ian was thrilled for them.

This post has been edited by geisha779: 08 October 2009 - 06:12 AM

[sky4it]

waysider, on 07 October 2009 - 06:24 AM, said:

I'm not sure where you're going with this.
Can you explain?

Is this really necessary? Mention the name of Ozzie with anything good, and you have to be directional about it, flumes of smoke start pouring out in differing directions. Case in point: I started a thread about Suzane Somers business, not one reply. Ok then, I will be directional about it. Perhaps its best to start with Garth’s (aka AndersonCooper’s) comments which when an athiest speaks about what a Christian must look like, seem sacrificially aimed at best. No matter, Garth is in general mostly a gentlemen. Ok then ergo, here goes, see response posted under Garths comments.

[sky4it]

GarthP2000, on 07 October 2009 - 05:10 PM, said:

Actually, Ozzie was fired from Black Sabbath cuz he often showed up so damned stoned/drunk during recording/playing sessions.

"Vocalist Ozzy Osbourne's drinking led to his firing from the band in 1979 and was replaced by former Rainbow vocalist Ronnie James Dio." - from Wikipedia

And if that's your example of a Christian artist,

Then he shouldn't have 'dressed the part'. 'Played the part'. It's like someone saying that they are against all the _bloody violence_ depicted in horror flicks, then going to see just about every horror flick you can get your hands on. ... Ie., Ozzie was no 'Christian'.

Oh by the way, I like a good part of Ozzie's music, so spare me the "you're holier-than-thou" argument. But lets be honest about where the guy is coming from, okay? Ie., Ozzie's no practicing Christian, at least not in the fundamentalist sense of the term. And such is the case with a lot of musicians/celebrities. Ie., they put up that 'spiritual facade' as a front. ... to get more sales.

At least Kirk Cameron was more honest about his 'spirituality' in this respect.

I never said or pretended to say that Ozzie especially in his early years was a role model of Christian values. All I am saying is that over the years he has become a wholesome and likeable person, who seems to see caring as way more important than any outward vices he might have(The outward vice being excessive drinking. BTW, the bible never says you can’t drink, it just warns against being a drunkard. Because if you do, your not even going to like yourself. Most people know that some one who drinks continually is a constant social aggravation. A drunkard is one who is hitting at it pretty much out of control a lot. Drunkards have happy feet and like to be in peoples faces all the time. I suppose you could have someone who drank all the time and stayed away from people so as not to be a drunkard, but that would be an unbelievably horrific life). The other thing is Garth, that Wiki says he was fired by band members for DRINKING, certainly a better vice than pot, crack cocaine and heroin. You know the members of a rock band firing one of there own for substance abuse is absurd. It would be like if you saw some raging substance abusers mocking a guy who was sitting at a bar stool for having a night out. Did the members of the Black Sabbath band teach seminars on the excesses of substance abuse? That’s hysterical. Um lets see, we only do one joint, one line of coke, and one heroin needle per day, anything else is not tolerated and anyone who does that will be dismissed.

But Ozzie as a role model? Well, NO, I think your right, I am quite sure Ozzie probably wouldn’t want to repeat his life again either. But is it fair to hold Ozzie to role model conduct so that he can’t be a Christian? I thought the entire idea behind salvation was for those that are and were hurt to get healing for themselves. (I also thought the entire idea of starting early in life with the concept of salvation was too avoid lifes pitfalls and not have to learn everything the hard way.) There are people who are like the “prodigal son” types in this life. I highly doubt some of them who are honest with themselves are proud of there own errors or would like to return to where they were. The larger point being, it’s not fair to take the gospel away from them early in life either, or else, you might as well tell them they have no chance to be a forgiven son at all. But Ozzie Osborne is not even remotely like a prodigal son. Ozzie got smoked and shamed from every where for one act, one single act- that of naming his band Black Sabbath. Perhaps that smoke and shame had something to do with his heavy drinking. Perhaps there is no excuse ever for doing anything wrong. The problem with me is with only respect to Ozzie, I can’t make the call on that one. I just simply don’t know how because it seems he carried an excessive burden that almost all people I have seen never had to carry. And the larger point for somebody like Ozzie is this: I think the pain and suffering Ozzie suffered for that single act, is sufficient in judgement for anything Ozzie has ever done. For what purpose, to make Ozzie a saint that is what purpose. Because the man has a heart of gold, that he probably couldn’t have gotten any other way. There is also another particular side to all this stuff to that people don’t consider fully, its about the reason that we are all here in the first place. It is called in life peoples callings, and they are not all even remotely the same at times from person to person. You are called in one hope of YOUR calling, people are not called in one hope of somebody elses calling. Which is why its just wrong wrong wrong, to hold such a person Ozzie, in contempt and judgement in the first place.


And finally, Ozzie to my knowledge has never responded to why he was fired. When its three or four to 1, maybe he just felt outnumbered. In addition, the Ozzer is a gentlemen, he’s not a guy who likes to trade back quips if he felt he was wronged. Ozzie is precisely that nice of a guy. BTW, like the Ozzer, I know what its like to have some people hate you for no good particular reason, and yes, it helps me every week or two to visit some Jim Bean or Jack Daniels or American bourbon whiskey. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But drinking a lot? I can’t, I don’t want to & I never do, I can’t stand myself to drink more than on a few times a month on occasion. But I also thank the grace of God , and am happy for my lucky stars, that I don’t like to drink more than I do. Because if I did, I know I would become awful. The other thing is, most people who like to drink once in while, really don’t like drugs at all. I know I don’t.

The entire thing has a hysterical component. Mention the name of Ozzie Osborne along with anything that is good, and there always somewhere from someone flumes of smoke going off. It’s one of those strange things, nobody seem to be able to figure out. It’s not that hard to understand, never has been.

This post has been edited by sky4it: 08 October 2009 - 11:16 AM

[waysider]

sky4it, on 08 October 2009 - 12:13 PM, said:

The other thing is, most people who like to drink once in while, really don’t like drugs at all. I know I don’t.

Where do you get your information?
I dare say, not from mental health care professionals.

BTW---Ozzie wasn't fired because he drank.
He was fired because his behavior was unacceptable.

[Shellon]

I'm sorry, I just..........

This post has been edited by Shellon: 08 October 2009 - 01:57 PM

[GarthP2000]

Sky4it,

You (again) seem to get this impression that I'm judging Ozzie because he drank (be it once or a thousand times) and thus hold it against him.

Read ... what ... I ... said ... again.

My point was a response to the spiel of here you were holding up Ozzie as a member of a Christian church, flashing peace signs and taking all kinds of crap and being all persecuted and all. A Christian who is just misunderstood. Ie., you were making him out to be this persecuted Christian who doesn't deserve all his grief.

Hey, he's a hard rock performer (who's early work with Black Sabbath I happened to like -- I, uhh, _did_ mention that earlier, did I not? ) and got involved in sex, drugs, and rock n' roll. Standard fair for rockers, especially of his musical genre. And it was a genre that was, to say the least, not exactly of the 'wholesome', Ned Flanders, Family Channel variety of Christianity cultural style. And this opinion isn't just voiced by all the tight-a**ed fundies, but among more mainstream-to-moderately-liberal religious crowd, ... more or less.

So you come along, and try to portray him as a misunderstood Donnie Osmond-wannabee (an image that Ozzie himself would throw up at, and I wouldn't blame him!) inside at heart, ... ok so maybe not _that_ sickening. But a lot of what he's undergone in that heavy metal world, he went thru with eyes wide open, so he shouldn't be surprised if he's involved in stuff that you don't find on the TV Land channel.

Clear as mud now?