Slave Labor - Building the Pyramids

[chockfull]

Another discussion about tithing has brought up how TWI uses that tithe - this is very enlightening as it is a way to examine the fruit of an organization. This leads to focusing in on a subsection of that discussion. TWI demands and expects greater than 10% tithe. What else? The volunteering of your time.

How do you calculate the net worth of time spent, and compare it to what you receive?

In the times of Egypt, the Pharoahs used slave labor to build the pyramids. Generations upon generations performed back-breaking labor, survived ill-treatment, and had low quality lives all for the purpose of building the pyramids. These were elaborate burial chambers for the rich. The great pyramid of Giza is one of the 7 wonders of the world, but of what value was that to all of the slaves that built it? The sacrifice of many to serve the egotistical goals of the few.

How about TWI?

WOWs spent year of canvassing neighborhoods for pfal registration.

Fellow-Laborers and volunteers worked near Limb properties to upkeep grounds and help at ministry events.

Corps worked 4-hour workday schedules -- 200 X 4 X 2(yr) = 1600 (hrs)

Interim Corps worked for $75 a month (plus room/board)

Adv Class grads and Set-up Crews helped to run pfal classes.

Etc. Etc. Etc.

So to quantify some of that - "Corps worked 4 hour workday schedules" - minimum wage has varied over years, from $4/hr years ago to $7 - $9 currently. Even in residence the value of the work each person provides is a bare minimum of 20 hrs a week x 51 weeks a year (there is no 2 week vacation). That amounts to current values at $7/hr of $7140 a year. Actual values would include working weekend hours (all have chores on Sundays, many times work on Saturday too, as well as no study hall days and full workdays). The Corps trainees are also not average low skill workers. Many are worth much more than that. In addition to that - thousands paid in tuition as well.

Adv. Class grads - work/study to provide augmented staff for Adv. Classes. Volunteer work to run fellowships, setup / crews for all ministry events unpaid, etc.

Staff - the opportunity cost of minimum wage based payment for years versus developing a profession that will provide for your family, children, and future. Living in trailers or mobile homes, 2 families to one mobile home. Even your poorest welfare recipient in the worst neighborhood in any city would at least get to live in their own mobile home with one family.

Running a fellowship - 3 meetings per week - 1.5 hours per meeting, 1 hour physical setup, 2 hours meeting prep = 13.5 hours per week. In addition, administrative - 2 hours, coordinator meetings - 2 hours, weekly phone calls with leadership = 19.5 hours per week (very conservative). Every fellowship - it's a part time unpaid job to run it.

Running a branch/limb - most of those positions are unpaid as well. Same time spent - except for now it's 3 hours of Corps teachings (on color of poop, how to read labels, how to breathe, and very fundamental scriptural teachings), weekly phone calls with fellowship coords plus next higher leader. 25 - 40 hours a week to do those jobs in addition to needing to make a living.

Yes, TWI is built upon slave labor. The end result - some video classes, a boring magazine, more boring weekly teachings devoid of any personality, and an org with $52 million worth while the followers are on welfare.

What are your experiences with slave labor building the pyramids of TWI?

[OldSkool]

What are your experiences with slave labor building the pyramids of TWI?

That about sums it up for me, Chock. I have to say all along I used to wrestle with where Jesus taught "The laborer is worthy of his hire." It used to chap me that I received so little, while giving so very much.

I literally rerouted the course of my life for that organization, for what turned out to be empty promises. The promises are constant though - give, give, give and you shall receive a hundred fold. Then of course the fine print clauses that come about when you aren't receiving like promised. "You are going to get rewards at the gathering together that eye has not seen neither ear hear" - to paraphrase. I could go on. I've been had by them, thats for sure.

In the depth of my soul I knew what they were doing was wrong, but I thought I could change it all for the glory of God. I realize now that God never ordained the way international to do anything for him, and he doesn't need people to go there and straighten it out so he can use it for his purposes. Nope, Jesus is doing just fine as the head of the Church and as God's right hand man without any help from wierwille and the like.

[krys]

I see many of our twi brethren being rewarded according to their gifts of time over the years. Of course these are people I know and knew face to face, otherwise how would I have any knowledge of what they did?!

The principles of God are, in fact the principles of God. Out of a clean and pure heart, I know many individuals who gave money, household goods, time, physical work, and even individual expertise to twigs, or twig coordinators, or limb leaders etc. God has blessed many of these individuals in various ways. At least 2 have developed and prospered in their own individual businesses. At least one of them was unusually well versed with business acumen, but his business far exceeded his own abilities. Because of his financial and time gifts to what he believed at the time was "a godly" thing..he was blessed back. How many times were we told that God is not a respecter of persons, but he does respect conditions.

It was unusual when I was in, but there were those who did gripe about service of one type or another, and guess what....I've never seen any profit in their lives (not that I know everything - - but I think you get the idea)

[OldSkool]

Krys, to be clear my gripe is not against the Bible and scripture's regarding giving. They are against the organization that lauds those scriptures and ignores other scriptures that define their responsibility towards those that serve them. God is true, keeps account, and will make it right. To put it mildly, the way international ignores their fiduciary responsibility as an employer.

Your post makes it seem that people you know were rewarded by not griping. I disagree with that, if I understand correctly, because many people were wronged by TWI and speaking out when wronged is not wrong. A person on the short end of the stick needs to vent, process the emotions, or they may have even more problems. That's the way I see it anyway and I speak from personal experience.

I also do not think that God punishes people by withholding what is owed them because they had grievances.

Hebrews 6:10 God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them.

[excathedra]

my dear dear friend and "corps brother" (as we used to say) is a genius when it comes to computers (i know, how vague). one of his assignments in Emporia was climbing a ladder and taking a little wire brush to wash the bricks on the outside of the library (i believe it was that building). whenever he went back the next day, he had absolutely no clue where he left off.

isn't just sick?

[skyrider]

Yes, TWI is built upon slave labor. The end result - some video classes, a boring magazine, more boring weekly teachings devoid of any personality, and an org with $52 million worth while the followers are on welfare.

For every principle that twi teaches, they attempt to thwart IF YOU ARE WORKING FOR YOUR OWN BETTERMENT.

What about the cost of loss opportunity (when we were slaving for twi)?

What about loss of overtime pay....if one stayed working rather than rushing to pfal?

What about missing out on promotions (cause others came in on weekends, or worked late)?

Yeah, yeah.....I know that the Lord opens doors and all, but we've got to do our part too.

Twi loved it when we worked 80 hours a week FOR THEM.

May the Lord reward twi's bod accordingly -- for deception, manipulation and exploitation.

[waysider]

I'm not so quick to use the term "slave". We weren't shackled and chained....at least not physically. "Duped and exploited"...I have no problem with phrasing it that way. I think back on all we did, as FellowLaborers of Ohio, to maintain the Limb HQ and keep the wheels of the statewide machinery well greased and running. For what? Yeah, I see people on facebook, talking about how we sacrificed and spoke the word and ran the race and fought for a noble cause and blah, blah, blah. I think all that kind of talk is delusional. If it makes you feel better to think you were part of some gallant effort, who am I to take that away from you? For myself, though, it has become amazingly clear that we were mere pawns in Wierwille's personal, perverted game....puppets in a fantasy play about super feats and imaginary relevance.

Hell's bells!.... The very class we toiled and hustled and grunted to foist into the public spotlight (remember PFAL?) has been relegated to a home in the mothball drawer. So, tell me,now....How important was all we endured and sacrificed to promote it?...Duped and exploited...In some ways, worse than physical chains and shackles.

Edited April 24, 2012 by waysider

[waysider]

Maybe it's just me but this thread reminded me of this song.

[Ham]

In the times of Egypt, the Pharoahs used slave labor to build the pyramids. Generations upon generations performed back-breaking labor, survived ill-treatment, and had low quality lives all for the purpose of building the pyramids. These were elaborate burial chambers for the rich. The great pyramid of Giza is one of the 7 wonders of the world,

Hmmm. Well, twi didn't end up being one of the seven wonders of the world did it?

Maybe in the minds of those "charged with oversight" or something like that..

[krys]

Oh dear - - I didn't state that very well did I?!

Nobody get's prospered by keeping quiet and not griping. I only wanted to show that those who gave with a joyful heart were prospered.

Everything you say about time lost....education lost.....that is all true. I guess where one lived and what time period one was involved may have been more important than I thought it was.

And I was never in a situation to be quite as victimized as you, never having been Corps. Those I was closest to, likewise were just "ordinary" folks.

I'm very sorry if I lead you astray by what I wrote. Maybe I should not have posted those thoughts at all rather than let you think I thought everything was honkey dory. We all know about it now.....but I had no clue until I read WayDale - - I wasn't as educated as many of you.

[ciythog]

There is a difference between "get to" and "got to". Giving with a heart of love because you want to is I think what is important. And according to 2 Corinthians 9:7 God loves a cheerful giver.

[chockfull]

Nobody get's prospered by keeping quiet and not griping. I only wanted to show that those who gave with a joyful heart were prospered.

For sure - there are plenty of people (myself included) that God honored the heart of and they received results. I mean to stick with my original language and analogy that's true in the Bible as well - God looked on the hearts of the griping Israelites as they performed the hard labor to build the pyramids and provided them with a miraculous solution - Moses and the book of Exodus.

The problem in TWI enters in when the muckity mucks and uppity ups in high places who are professing Christians and also carry the burden of leadership requirements from God behave a whole lot more like the Egyptian slave masters than they do professing Christians. You see the same hard-heartedness towards people that Pharoah showed that the 10 plagues were sent to deal with. The same lack of concern for people's welfare and well being. The same obnoxiousness in attitude towards their little pet rules they have in place, and the failure to yield on them.

Sheesh - one particular vomit-inducing thread illustrating this was one where Rico was purported to say that "God created welfare so believers don't have to go in debt". All the while the guy is collecting a management level salary and paying cash for his house. I mean I guess in TWI God isn't powerful enough to create a leader with compassion who will pay employees enough so they don't have to go on welfare.

There will be no 10 plagues, no prophet to save them. No parting of the Red Sea. They will sit in their little cieled palaces and high seats at the lunch table and grow more irrelevant every day until nobody listens to them anymore. And then Jesus Christ will come back and they will get deflated from all their hot air.

Edited April 24, 2012 by chockfull

[Thomas Loy Bumgarner]

reminds me of the Capitol One commercial which asks What's in your wallet? If that is TWI asking, reply it's none of their bussiness

Edited April 24, 2012 by Thomas Loy Bumgarner

[OldSkool]

Oh dear - - I didn't state that very well did I?!

If only I had a dollar for every thought I typed that cyberspace mangled.

I think you made a good distinction. God keeps score and will repay, and certainly takes care of those TWI has taken advantage.

[Naten00]

I am looking for a Master Degree program in biblical studies and it is expensive..

What is the difference between paying a university for biblical education and paying TWI for "biblical" education?

[krys]

You'll get more correct information at a university.

The university will give you correct information.

[chockfull]

What is the difference between paying a university for biblical education and paying TWI for "biblical" education?

When you get done at a university you'll have an accredited degree? As opposed to a .79 cent diploma and a .39 cent wallet card?

[excathedra]

What is the difference between paying a university for biblical education and paying TWI for "biblical" education?

you won't have to do bless patrol or give anyone a blowjob

and you will probably get educated