"Corps Alumni" designation always intrigued me, as applied.
Any graduate of a (thing) that has graduats would be an "alumni/a".
The few I met at the tale end there who were being called that were basically people who SpartanDale didn't want to drop but who he liked or felt still had warm snuggly feelings for the Way but were ready to move on over rover and at least not be a pain in the foot. That would have been around '87 - ''89, I think. More a Retiree designation kind of feel.
I guess it defined the person alumnificating that they were no longer actively "learning" in the program and therefore were actually "out" of the program, as defined.....? It just seems an awkward title as Martinscale used it, and
Weird.
The old model was a young man's game.....but as I've spoken to others over the years I'm finding many hadn't quite planned far enough ahead to see how their futures might look. I wasn't early on but by the time I was getting close to 30 I was.
My interests and my own challenges with growing older probably didn't make me prime beef anymore, and I'm sure I sounded somewhat less spiritually hoo-rah and more boots-on-the-ground than most. A little less blushy at the idea of moving again and again, which we already agreed we weren't going to be doing regardless of what the Skunk Office decided or ScarfinDale hooted up. Course if you're trying to keep a full time gig in the middle of the '80's there, you imbibed whatever loogies MarbleDale was offering up and made plenty of overt overtures of love to the Way Ink so as to reassure them of your undying committment. To them.
As is known, I decided to cut my losses, leave whatever they wouldn't honestly return behind, chalk it up as line items for my next year's Spiritual-God-Keeps-Track-Anyway ABS Return Form 000 (a guitar, an amp, several dozen books, a redwood burl table, a couple 1,000 days of the best I had etc. etc. etc. etc. to those dipwads at New Knocksville) and just move on to swim the warm refreshing waters of God's Good Grace in a different land, under another sky.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at whatever those meetings are now but the warm musty smell of those walls and carpets and the site of all that old gray, pale skin would likely cause me to snarf up my last meal. I have today between 10 - ? guitars, depending on the month, have had to give away amps to make room for the ones I've got, books come and go and that table - well, I'll have to take solace that those idjuts were probably too stupid to know what to do with it and some po' Wayfer scratched their head at some point and said well donggonit, I guess it'll make good firewood, and either burned it or tossed it. So it goes.
For those wondering what's to become of them if they leave those dirt bags on the side of the road - all I could say is it works out fine in the end. There's that night when you look out and see nothing but stars and you think - what's to become of us now, what will this be tomorrow?....don't sweat it. And even if the only thing you change is their ability to influence you directly, that's enough. :wink2:/>/>
The old model was a young man's game.....but as I've spoken to others over the years I'm finding many hadn't quite planned far enough ahead to see how their futures might look. I wasn't early on but by the time I was getting close to 30 I was.
My interests and my own challenges with growing older probably didn't make me prime beef anymore, and I'm sure I sounded somewhat less spiritually hoo-rah and more boots-on-the-ground than most. A little less blushy at the idea of moving again and again...
The old model was WIERWILLE'S MODEL.
That's what astounds me when people claim wierwille was some sort of visionary for the corps program and spiritual growth. Moving again and again......moving to another city on your own dime, scoping out city maps and neighborhoods for rental homes and schools, finding employment, corps grads and twig coordinators meetings, etc, etc.......and wierwille wonders why corps are not committed to this for a lifetime?
What about finding a new dentist? another doctor? prenatal care?
With kids in tow, each passing year added exponential family concerns.
Anyone with average brain cells rubbing together could see the coming trainwreck.
Why couldn't wierwille see this? He had five kids and knew, somewhat, of the challenges of a growing family.....didn't he? Of course, he didn't move more than some 60 miles from his dad's homestead, but surely he could contemplate what challenges corps grads would face when their kids were in high school and prepping for college? Life? Finances? Colleges? Grandchildren? Retirement?
All of this was SO OBVIOUS.
Anyone with a modicum of observation and empathy for people could see that corps servitude, and moving every 3-5 years, wasn't going to work. This could NOT be God's will......a edict set in twi-stone that all corps grads would heed. How assinine! How narcisstic! Good for thee, but not for me! Talk about use and abuse. And, if wierwille was too narcisstic to see it.....where were the "multitude of counsellors in the church" to confront this? Martindale, Lynn, Finneg-n, Reah-rd, Cvmmins, ---- no one could see this???
IMO....without confronting this glaring issue, corps grads were left with two choices: 1) Climb the twi corporate ladder and get on full-time payroll status or 2) Continue to make preparations for one's own life, family and future. And, the further a corps grad was assigned from hq, the more obvious was this plan of action. And, who would blame them? It was THEIR life. I always had great respect for those california corps who, after assigned out west, never seemed to come back (haha).
So, staffers like Rivenbark or Linder, who got on payroll after their corps graduation....NEVER LEAVE.
Nice gig with creature-comfort perks and NO MOVING, EVAH......buy home, stay put, look how spiritual they are.
wierwille used to go on like the stupid idiot he was about the military requiring such and such so the least you could do for god....... blah blah blah
was in the military? did he go wow? was he allowed to see his family for christmas?
oh yeah one time he went on a mission and the left their baby for god
wierwille used to go on like the stupid idiot he was about the military requiring such and such so the least you could do for god....... blah blah blah
was in the military? did he go wow? was he allowed to see his family for christmas?
oh yeah one time he went on a mission and the left their baby for god
great parents
(snip)
Me, I thought it was interesting that he went away for over a year and left a
tiny child with family members but not Mom and Dad.
I thought it was more interesting that he described that same trip as supposedly
the first time a minister traveled there "with his WHOLE family".
Apparently, that kid really didn't count with vpw. Probably too much work.
Then again, this is the same vpw that said women were built differently- and used
an example that women can hold a baby for a while but a man will hand them over
after a few minutes- and claimed it was a difference in how their arms were
constructed.
Me, I think it's a difference in how his regard was constructed. If vpw actually
CARED for his kids or LIKED them, he could hold them for a LOT longer than he's
claiming. I can hold a kid weighing much more than that longer than he claimed-
if it's my kid. In my arms, and not just on my shoulders, I mean, just like the
people in his example.
======================
And yes,
vpw had NO military experience whatsoever and based his "understanding"
on MOVIES and TELEVISION and not REALITY.
He never entered any leadership training programs, either.
I had more leadership training in college than he had in his entire
academic career, and I never pretended I fully understood everything.
I spent 6 years in the Navy. I only went up to E-4, because I had some attitude problems, but I qualified as an engine room supervisor on a nuclear submarine, so I was like a shift supervisor for the watch section's machinists mates. That was a number of years before I got involved with TWI.
After I had taken PFAL and began participating in the organization's programs, I just assumed that its leaders were also trained in leadership. I wasn't disabused of that notion until I went into residence in the Corps training myself. It seemed to me that the leaders of TWI were praying for God to bless what they had already decided to do, which was how Wierwille defined walking by the flesh in foundational PFAL.
What clinched the whole thing for me was after the reading of The Passing of A Patriarch. Everybody in the Corps knew that there was a problem among the Trustees. Everybody was wondering "What can we do to help fix this problem?" The Trustees kept having meetings, but never would get specific about what the problem was. Then Martindale came out and said the problem arose because the people on the field were too lax about how they were running PFAL.
A leader's job is to take responsibility. When Martindale attempted to shift responsibility from the Trustees to the people at the twig level, who were doing the actual work, it was like scales fell from my eyes, and I could see what a hollow sham the whole Way tree structure was.
...snip...
And yes,
vpw had NO military experience whatsoever and based his "understanding"
on MOVIES and TELEVISION and not REALITY.
He never entered any leadership training programs, either.
I had more leadership training in college than he had in his entire
academic career, and I never pretended I fully understood everything.
Given the disrespect for authority Wierwille demonstrated throughout his life, he would NEVER have been able to submit to the discipline required to learn real leadership.
By way of comparison, the Methodist church generally posts its ministers to a particular church or churches for a period of 3-5 years.
BUT that is done carefully, taking into account the wishes, needs and inclinations of the minister and the minister's family - and the wishes and needs of the receiving church. The 3-5 year period can be extended if that's what the need is, for either party.
For instance: my friend, when she took up her first role as minister, was carefully and thoughtfully interviewed. Her family needs included: good schools for her four children, the schools not being too far apart; that they were within about an hour's drive from a major city here where she and all the children had been born and raised - they are a very close family and have huge family Sunday lunches all together, and my friend particularly wished to maintain close contact for her children and their grandparents; her husband's hard-built-up self-employed work in the area, south of the same major city; and as to the length of time, she wanted 5 years because that would help the children settle, the two oldest would be at Uni and the two younger ones would be ready to move to other schools if necessary for the 16-18 year old period of their education. Three years would be too disruptive for the children, she thought.
All of that was carefully thought about and she was allocated to one single large church, about 45 mins south of the major city - in the heart of her husband's work area; there are two good schools for the children, the older two went to one school and the other two to another; the congregation was perfectly receptive to the human qualities that she has, and welcomed her plans to move forward (- as much as the average congregation does!). It was a perfect arrangement.
At the end of the 5 years, reviews have taken place all round. Her tenure has been (most unusually) extended for another 3-5 years, 5 I think, and after that all the children will be well away and making their own independent lives. The older two are in their 3rd and 1st years of Uni and the third child may go this year if that's what he wants to do.
I mention this in detail because she's told me about the careful and very thoughtful talks that took place before she was assigned anywhere. She has to complete a written form which asked about her specific needs, not just her needs but the needs of all those she was closely associated with - her family. There were interviews, not a short one-off interview, but a careful consideration based on her written requests. There was mutual trust and dialogue all round.
Not quite how Corps assignments work...at least, at the bottom level. Perhaps only at Prez level.
What clinched the whole thing for me was after the reading of The Passing of A Patriarch. Everybody in the Corps knew that there was a problem among the Trustees. Everybody was wondering "What can we do to help fix this problem?" The Trustees kept having meetings, but never would get specific about what the problem was. Then Martindale came out and said the problem arose because the people on the field were too lax about how they were running PFAL.
A leader's job is to take responsibility. When Martindale attempted to shift responsibility from the Trustees to the people at the twig level, who were doing the actual work, it was like scales fell from my eyes, and I could see what a hollow sham the whole Way tree structure was.
Without getting into the geer power-grab fiasco, the trustees and corps leadership had been sending mixed messages for years. In 1978, the corps numbers were swelling at a remarkable rate from the 6th corps thru 9th corps [and amassing corps signatures for another five years]....and corps leadership began to highlight that the corps program was twofold: 1)Training corps to be future twig coordinators and 2)Teaching spiritual men and women to go forth into their communities and business and give back to twi. Remember, within a couple of years, twi had FIVE corps locations with the family/children focus at the Indiana campus AND the trunk office was gearing up for Military Outreach and Medical Outreach.
IMO.....the whole structure and twi system was inadequate and unable to adapt. A thesis paper could be written to encompass the number of variables that caused the weight of this system to come crashing down upon itself, starting with wierwille and trustees. The corps program was not designed to raise men and women for spiritual leadership....but rather, *pfal-class instructors.* You see, the buzzspeak of twi was "the word moves when pfal classes were running." The more drones there were, the more "THE WORD" (pfal) would move over the world. For years, class instructors were not corps.....but hey, with the corps program, more discipline equated to more dedicatation.
But what wierwille and co. failed to recognize was THE WIERWILLE MYSTIQUE WAS FADING. As advanced class grads and corps grew older, the "old model" of roa tent camping and communes was dissipating. With each passing year, the concerns for good employment, careers, advancements, educations, families, etc. were seeping into the conscience of even the lowly dullard. It wasn't brain surgery.....it was simple reality! Where were the signs, miracles or wonders of God? Those corps weeks and rock of ages times were fun times of REUNITING WITH OLD FRIENDS......not the power of God in manifestation!!!
And really, all those military analogies fall flat when one gets past basic calisthenics. The way corps was filled with zealous volunteers, mostly, wanting to help people and serve God. Two years of inresidence and aerobic points does NOT make for an elite fight force or whatever. What a pile of bull-hooie. And, after graduation, volunteer corps were paying their own way to move year after year to different locations. I would venture to say that nearly 90% of all corps were 'on their own'.......no salary, no compensation, no healthcare, no retirement package.
Even church ministers, who are shuffled every 5 years [an apples to oranges comparison] have a church location, congregants, already in place. They are not given this nebulous set of directives.......to organize witnessing nights, public ex's, find locations and run pfal classes.
Okay, now I got a headache. That's enough. :asdf:/>
If we'd really seen the power of God in manifestation rather than the works of man (one particular man and it wasn't JC) then things would have been VERY different.
Sure some people were delivered from various illnesses, mental prisons and other predicaments. Especially at twig/branch level. We can all attest to meeting some awesome people at that sort of level.
But deliverance after being prayed for at BoD level? Nah. Though you might find you were afraid to admit to some need if any of the BoD were around.
The corps program was not designed to raise men and women for spiritual leadership....but rather, *pfal-class instructors.* You see, the buzzspeak of twi was "the word moves when pfal classes were running." The more drones there were, the more "THE WORD" (pfal) would move over the world.
Move The Word = Sell PFAL.
Word Over The World = Run lots of classes.
Even today, when I hear people talk about how they're still moving the word, what they really mean is they are promoting the contents of PFAL.
If we'd really seen the power of God in manifestation rather than the works of man (one particular man and it wasn't JC) then things would have been VERY different.
Sure some people were delivered from various illnesses, mental prisons and other predicaments. Especially at twig/branch level. We can all attest to meeting some awesome people at that sort of level.
But deliverance after being prayed for at BoD level? Nah. Though you might find you were afraid to admit to some need if any of the BoD were around.
I doubt the BOD prayed for anybody - but we had to pray for THEM
yeah, they were at the top of our frikkin lift list, outieboutie my friend. i don't think the prayers did any good lol
hey, great posts steve l and twinky and ww and sky and all the rest of you
i wonder how many "military leaders" became "way corps leaders"
i'm wondering about craig martindale being military as well as walter cummins and vince finnegan and bo reahard. i know they had what it took to sacrifice it all, did they not? like howard and donnie and ermal and all our friends out in TV land.
i know for sure, rose-o-lee and don lombardi were military commandos or something :)
One of my brothers was in the military. He was assigned to an area that had no fellowships. He was encouraged by leadership to not take the assignment (given by his superiors that would make or break his military career) because of the lack of a local fellowship. WTF?
And another one:
A dear friend of mine is married to a Marine. They were assigned to a base that was an hour and a half away from the closest fellowship. The local limb leader approached me one day and told me that he just couldn't understand their priorities by taking that assignment. I told him that when you are in the military you go where you are assigned - and that he should understand, being in a program that was based on the MARINE CORPS.
Anyone with a modicum of observation and empathy for people could see that corps servitude, and moving every 3-5 years, wasn't going to work. This could NOT be God's will......an edict set in twi-stone that all corps grads would heed. How assinine! How narcissistic! Good for thee, but not for me! Talk about use and abuse. And, if wierwille was too narcissistic to see it.....where were the "multitude of counsellors in the church" to confront this? Martindale, Lynn, Finneg-n, Reah-rd, Cvmmins, ---- no one could see this???
With the martindale lawsuit and ouster.....I think that corps grads on the field got the upper edge as well. Obviously, there was SIN IN TWI'S TRUSTEE-CAMP and the manipulation that was once there vanished. Not only were these corps grads hitting the 50-year old age grouping, they were ensconced in homes, neighborhoods, school districts, and careers that many, if not most, were unwilling to leave. At this stage of life, and especially on the heels of the martindale sex romps/lawsuit/ouster......if push came to shove, corps grads would have willingly given twi the one-finger salute and exited.
Thus, corps grads are NOT going to be moving any time soon unless they request it. And, even then, it would be to the benefit of the CORPS GRAD, because of a job change or family needs or the pleasant weather in Tampa. The annual placement meetings facillitate the one-on-one time with region coordinators more than reshuffling the deck of the 'committed.' Window dressing for the young corps to see.
Besides......what else is twi doing with that $54 Million? They might as well spend a few bucks and fly the region coordinators in for a week. Micro-managing doesn't work all that well if rosie can't manage the micro-details in her policies.
One of my brothers was in the military. He was assigned to an area that had no fellowships. He was encouraged by leadership to not take the assignment (given by his superiors that would make or break his military career) because of the lack of a local fellowship. WTF?
I heard another military gentleman tell a story that he dropped out of the military and stopped pursuing career advancement and promotion because the local region coordinator "didn't think it would be best". So the advantages that could be obtained in life including higher retirement pay for him and his family were basically forfeited because some goober with a pumpkin sized head thought they were entitled to meddle in another person's life.
This is like everyone's fault. The military guy for being naieve, the goober for being himself, the military guy's family for not giving him hell for this decision, and TWI for raising up goobers who think like that.
Here's another little bit of fact in case those reading might think there is a communication disconnect of some sort between TWI and its trained leaders regarding all this moving people around at largely their own expense and to the detriment of quality of life.
One year the leaders were asked for suggestions to improve (yes this was a day when we were all looking around for hell to be freezing over). A couple of people I knew submitted the feedback that although Corps placements were supposed to be for the good of the individual AND the good of the ministry, practically the good of the individual and the family involved were not being considered in placements.
What happened? Rosie the Riveter got ....ed that people were turning down assignments. They publicly put out that the US leaders were complaining too much and needed to be more thankful like the internationals who "put up with hardship to even get the Word". Next, the party line on placements was changed. Now it was "whatever is best for the ministry will be the best for the individual". They explained that because all were serving and doing God's will, that WAS the best for them individually.
This sounds admirable, but the bottom line is "we don't need to care about you because God will". This logical fallacy falls into the same category as "I don't need to take out my trash, God will do it". It promotes mysticism and dependency. It is also a main reason that TWI's leadership and BOD does not deserve to be trusted with the care of your life or your family.
Oh, and here's another secret. If you played politics right, then people would be left in the same area for years, allowing for a more normal integration with a community, and not spending all your life savings on moving expenses that TWI won't pay for, etc. All the placements and moves also are a great way to control people. Demote people, they won't be confident to resist you any more. Move them around and make them spend all their savings, they don't have time to think. They have to scramble to not go in debt - all imposed by this random shuffle of TWI.
Basically, the placement shuffle done by TWI is the operating of a cult. It's trading in human flesh, like you are trading a horse or a cow. The term used in the Bible for this is "menstealers". Sometimes translated "kidnappers", this also encompasses the horse trader definition. It is used for punishment and control. It is also used to prop up and magnify the exemplary bootie kissers.
You know this may sound weird, but I always knew when they were passing around my file and discussing my life. I would get this weird feeling like someone was walking over my grave. And it wasn't paranoia, although with all you know about the process that would be completely understandable. This was very specific.
Now looking back I see my own delusion and density. I mean if God is communicating to me somehow regarding the people in charge of my life in a fashion that they are walking on my grave, then possibly these people should not be trusted and not have the authority over my life to enact evil. You think?
But leaving a cult involves waking up from a slumber.
My last time in placements, there were a lot of people who had refused their assignments for one reason or another. Rosie was freakin PEEVED. I thought it was funny. I had one foot out the door, and was one of the assignment rejectors myself. I paid hell for rejecting that assignment for many months prior to placements, but that is another story.
The placements process is a joke. At HQ we would do a "informal meeting," where we would basically surprise attack the individual and endeavor to find out anything we could about what they were thinking, their needs, etc. Then we would schedule formal placement interviews. The interviews were very superficial. With HQ staff it was basically who was coming, and who was going. Interviewing way corps was more in-depth, but still artificial. It was artificial because the corps are expected to go wherever, and do whatever is needed. Anything beyond that was damage control to keep another escapee from leaving the farm. Corps who were burnt out bad enough were usually assigned something along what they requested to placate them. Corps who could be burned a little further, and served their purpose, were told to stay put another year. Corps who were out of favor were assigned whatever the hell Rosie saw fit to dole out as a punitive assignment.
Note: Field and staff assignments are handled the same way, during the same meetings.
So we would gather all this information and turn it all in. Placements would be preceded by several pre-placements meetings. It was mostly redundant and editorial. We would read all the assignments in our area, check for accuracy, put in for staff requests for vacant slots, etc. Meanwhile, in between meetings, my director would schedule meetings with me and basically tell me what I needed to staff my areas. He slashed needed positions, but never made any concession in production demands. By the time I got to placements I had been told what I needed, and it was a matter of finding a candidate to fill the slots. Candidate, because nothing final happens in placements, only recommendations from the cabinet. Rosalie has the final say and will change whatever she sees fit on a whim, and you can just deal with the consequence. She cares nothing of that.
Anyway, placements is one giant exercise in futility. TWI has shrunk substantially, and honestly, you could train three monkeys to shuffle people around, and staff whatever is needed. But, we would drag it out over four days of drudgery. Basically, we read thorough information that hads been sorted several ways, and "recommend" available people for positions. Most times, because there were so few people left, the same person would be recommended for multiple positions. Rosalie makes the final call if there is no concession reached between cabinet members. Meetings would adjourn in the afternoons to make phone calls, meet with each other to negotiate, etc.
By the time it's all said and done, the cabinet are administrative assistants for the directors, and amongst them donna and rosalie make the final say. Even though donna is on the cabinet, she is really Rosalie's secret adviser.
Field way corps positions really get buffaloed. You would get your interview, make your requests, and if the request was not what was wanted, you could bet your bottom dollar the request would never make it to HQ for consideration. I know a lot of people who fought for years to be reassigned someplace where they would have a better go of things. There were the very few limb and region guys who were honest, and would do what they could to represent people, but it was all futile. What Chock said is true. What's best for the ministry is best for you.
I remember that topic being explicitly taught at a corps morning teaching by a former VP. He gave the anecdote of himself being assigned to work the fields at HQ years ago. He grudgingly accepted the assignment, and then shared how much he learned in retrospect of God's abundance, and blah, blah, blah. The translation was plain. If you don't like your assignment, renew your mind, and deal with it. If you keep the rose colored glasses on long enough, then you too will like what you didn't like years later, in hindsight. :smilie_kool_aid:/>
When I graduated from the Corps, I requested "anywhere" because I believed that I God would send me where I was supposed to be. (confusing TWI with God)
I ended up in Mississippi and lived the two worst years of my entire life.
This reminds me - Florida. Gerald Wr enn was the goober limb boss there, and region tool at a point if I recall. After he got kicked off that job for - I think the press release version was that he'd overworked himself and his family life suffered as a result and he needed some well earned time for that - the report from the beleaguered corps in his region he'd abused for years was the usual litany of $, women and lies. In the beginning of my second year there I could vouch that he was a liar extraordinaire, a bully with a direct line to VPW and all around general purpose mook.
Great guy when I first met him, did some things together, some ministry work - great guy. Went south and sour, per anyone who relied on him or needed his assistance. Unless you had money or stuff or golfed or had something he wanted in which case you were golden.
The Corps Assignments -
I knew generally that the assignment meetings had become exercises in geo - management, some common sense strategy planning and increasing amounts of dart board on a map "who wants him" stuff. The logic of the earliest expansion discussions I heard or was a part of when we planned Way Production tours wasn't rocket science or suited for Mount Sinai - the early WOW office, and Trunk coordination were pretty straightforward IMO and down to earth.
Then when we went to Florida I became aware of what an ego driven political circle jerk it had become for the about 50 or so region, limb, area and trunk people. There were some assignments that didn't match or make sense. I had a Branch that was fairly large and one of the last years where any PFAL classes or fellowship expansion occurred down there, according to what those who came after told me. I asked GW about some of the assignments, what the thought was, the guidance, etc. on three people specifically - two who'd told me they'd requested a change and been denied without explanation - and one who'd just shown up there kind of obviously dazed but was really a nice guy who I thought deserved better than being squeezed in - it seemed he could do better with a better assignment.
I was told - course it's no surprise now - 1. it's not my place to ask 2. since you won't stop, the people who want to leave are wrong and need to stay and 3.
and this was unusual because in GW's anger he actually told the truth I think, out of sheer egotism -
That the one guys' name had been brought up, there was no obvious assignment and GW had raised his hand and said "I'll take him!" and that was how it went down. He just wanted more Corps, as many as he could get in his state - period, honest as he could be and now it was "my job" - his words - to make it work. In other words he was a total dik about it and was hell bent on bumping his numbers up to be the biggest limb, biggest region and if there was anything going on in the Way he wanted a lot of it so he'd be up front and center. He left it up to everyone else to figure out how to make that madness work.
It didn't, and by the second year in he was on the way out and everyone breathed a HUGE sigh of relief. Craig acted surprised - why hadn't he been told about all the bs sooner - and he had been but he wasn't listening and didn't have time for it. VPW was shocked - my God, this is the man who was going to help me move the WOW!!! Duh.
Anyhoo - the kindest thing I could say about these things were you have to speak up, be prepared, represent your own interests and be emphatic and passionate about what you wanted. Then flip a coin and come out swinging (metaphorically speaking of course).
Recommended Posts
socks
"Corps Alumni" designation always intrigued me, as applied.
Any graduate of a (thing) that has graduats would be an "alumni/a".
The few I met at the tale end there who were being called that were basically people who SpartanDale didn't want to drop but who he liked or felt still had warm snuggly feelings for the Way but were ready to move on over rover and at least not be a pain in the foot. That would have been around '87 - ''89, I think. More a Retiree designation kind of feel.
I guess it defined the person alumnificating that they were no longer actively "learning" in the program and therefore were actually "out" of the program, as defined.....? It just seems an awkward title as Martinscale used it, and
Weird.
The old model was a young man's game.....but as I've spoken to others over the years I'm finding many hadn't quite planned far enough ahead to see how their futures might look. I wasn't early on but by the time I was getting close to 30 I was.
My interests and my own challenges with growing older probably didn't make me prime beef anymore, and I'm sure I sounded somewhat less spiritually hoo-rah and more boots-on-the-ground than most. A little less blushy at the idea of moving again and again, which we already agreed we weren't going to be doing regardless of what the Skunk Office decided or ScarfinDale hooted up. Course if you're trying to keep a full time gig in the middle of the '80's there, you imbibed whatever loogies MarbleDale was offering up and made plenty of overt overtures of love to the Way Ink so as to reassure them of your undying committment. To them.
As is known, I decided to cut my losses, leave whatever they wouldn't honestly return behind, chalk it up as line items for my next year's Spiritual-God-Keeps-Track-Anyway ABS Return Form 000 (a guitar, an amp, several dozen books, a redwood burl table, a couple 1,000 days of the best I had etc. etc. etc. etc. to those dipwads at New Knocksville) and just move on to swim the warm refreshing waters of God's Good Grace in a different land, under another sky.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at whatever those meetings are now but the warm musty smell of those walls and carpets and the site of all that old gray, pale skin would likely cause me to snarf up my last meal. I have today between 10 - ? guitars, depending on the month, have had to give away amps to make room for the ones I've got, books come and go and that table - well, I'll have to take solace that those idjuts were probably too stupid to know what to do with it and some po' Wayfer scratched their head at some point and said well donggonit, I guess it'll make good firewood, and either burned it or tossed it. So it goes.
For those wondering what's to become of them if they leave those dirt bags on the side of the road - all I could say is it works out fine in the end. There's that night when you look out and see nothing but stars and you think - what's to become of us now, what will this be tomorrow?....don't sweat it. And even if the only thing you change is their ability to influence you directly, that's enough. :wink2:/>/>
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
that really is enough honest
no one can really assign your life. you are the beautiful inspired person who knows who you are deep inside
i hope you find yourself and understand what i'm saying
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
The old model was WIERWILLE'S MODEL.
That's what astounds me when people claim wierwille was some sort of visionary for the corps program and spiritual growth. Moving again and again......moving to another city on your own dime, scoping out city maps and neighborhoods for rental homes and schools, finding employment, corps grads and twig coordinators meetings, etc, etc.......and wierwille wonders why corps are not committed to this for a lifetime?
What about finding a new dentist? another doctor? prenatal care?
With kids in tow, each passing year added exponential family concerns.
Anyone with average brain cells rubbing together could see the coming trainwreck.
Why couldn't wierwille see this? He had five kids and knew, somewhat, of the challenges of a growing family.....didn't he? Of course, he didn't move more than some 60 miles from his dad's homestead, but surely he could contemplate what challenges corps grads would face when their kids were in high school and prepping for college? Life? Finances? Colleges? Grandchildren? Retirement?
All of this was SO OBVIOUS.
Anyone with a modicum of observation and empathy for people could see that corps servitude, and moving every 3-5 years, wasn't going to work. This could NOT be God's will......a edict set in twi-stone that all corps grads would heed. How assinine! How narcisstic! Good for thee, but not for me! Talk about use and abuse. And, if wierwille was too narcisstic to see it.....where were the "multitude of counsellors in the church" to confront this? Martindale, Lynn, Finneg-n, Reah-rd, Cvmmins, ---- no one could see this???
IMO....without confronting this glaring issue, corps grads were left with two choices: 1) Climb the twi corporate ladder and get on full-time payroll status or 2) Continue to make preparations for one's own life, family and future. And, the further a corps grad was assigned from hq, the more obvious was this plan of action. And, who would blame them? It was THEIR life. I always had great respect for those california corps who, after assigned out west, never seemed to come back (haha).
So, staffers like Rivenbark or Linder, who got on payroll after their corps graduation....NEVER LEAVE.
Nice gig with creature-comfort perks and NO MOVING, EVAH......buy home, stay put, look how spiritual they are.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Well, it was all done by revelation so, I'm thinking the revelation must have changed.
:P
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
From having participating in two consecutive years of placements meetings, I can say that it's what Rosalie and Donna want. No revelation needed.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Rosalie to region/corps leadership: "If we string the chairs, they will come."
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
it's all very sad, isn't it?
wierwille used to go on like the stupid idiot he was about the military requiring such and such so the least you could do for god....... blah blah blah
was in the military? did he go wow? was he allowed to see his family for christmas?
oh yeah one time he went on a mission and the left their baby for god
great parents
screw you wierwilles
Link to comment
Share on other sites
WordWolf
Me, I thought it was interesting that he went away for over a year and left a
tiny child with family members but not Mom and Dad.
I thought it was more interesting that he described that same trip as supposedly
the first time a minister traveled there "with his WHOLE family".
Apparently, that kid really didn't count with vpw. Probably too much work.
Then again, this is the same vpw that said women were built differently- and used
an example that women can hold a baby for a while but a man will hand them over
after a few minutes- and claimed it was a difference in how their arms were
constructed.
Me, I think it's a difference in how his regard was constructed. If vpw actually
CARED for his kids or LIKED them, he could hold them for a LOT longer than he's
claiming. I can hold a kid weighing much more than that longer than he claimed-
if it's my kid. In my arms, and not just on my shoulders, I mean, just like the
people in his example.
======================
And yes,
vpw had NO military experience whatsoever and based his "understanding"
on MOVIES and TELEVISION and not REALITY.
He never entered any leadership training programs, either.
I had more leadership training in college than he had in his entire
academic career, and I never pretended I fully understood everything.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Steve Lortz
I spent 6 years in the Navy. I only went up to E-4, because I had some attitude problems, but I qualified as an engine room supervisor on a nuclear submarine, so I was like a shift supervisor for the watch section's machinists mates. That was a number of years before I got involved with TWI.
After I had taken PFAL and began participating in the organization's programs, I just assumed that its leaders were also trained in leadership. I wasn't disabused of that notion until I went into residence in the Corps training myself. It seemed to me that the leaders of TWI were praying for God to bless what they had already decided to do, which was how Wierwille defined walking by the flesh in foundational PFAL.
What clinched the whole thing for me was after the reading of The Passing of A Patriarch. Everybody in the Corps knew that there was a problem among the Trustees. Everybody was wondering "What can we do to help fix this problem?" The Trustees kept having meetings, but never would get specific about what the problem was. Then Martindale came out and said the problem arose because the people on the field were too lax about how they were running PFAL.
A leader's job is to take responsibility. When Martindale attempted to shift responsibility from the Trustees to the people at the twig level, who were doing the actual work, it was like scales fell from my eyes, and I could see what a hollow sham the whole Way tree structure was.
Given the disrespect for authority Wierwille demonstrated throughout his life, he would NEVER have been able to submit to the discipline required to learn real leadership.
Love,
Steve
Edited by Steve LortzLink to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
By way of comparison, the Methodist church generally posts its ministers to a particular church or churches for a period of 3-5 years.
BUT that is done carefully, taking into account the wishes, needs and inclinations of the minister and the minister's family - and the wishes and needs of the receiving church. The 3-5 year period can be extended if that's what the need is, for either party.
For instance: my friend, when she took up her first role as minister, was carefully and thoughtfully interviewed. Her family needs included: good schools for her four children, the schools not being too far apart; that they were within about an hour's drive from a major city here where she and all the children had been born and raised - they are a very close family and have huge family Sunday lunches all together, and my friend particularly wished to maintain close contact for her children and their grandparents; her husband's hard-built-up self-employed work in the area, south of the same major city; and as to the length of time, she wanted 5 years because that would help the children settle, the two oldest would be at Uni and the two younger ones would be ready to move to other schools if necessary for the 16-18 year old period of their education. Three years would be too disruptive for the children, she thought.
All of that was carefully thought about and she was allocated to one single large church, about 45 mins south of the major city - in the heart of her husband's work area; there are two good schools for the children, the older two went to one school and the other two to another; the congregation was perfectly receptive to the human qualities that she has, and welcomed her plans to move forward (- as much as the average congregation does!). It was a perfect arrangement.
At the end of the 5 years, reviews have taken place all round. Her tenure has been (most unusually) extended for another 3-5 years, 5 I think, and after that all the children will be well away and making their own independent lives. The older two are in their 3rd and 1st years of Uni and the third child may go this year if that's what he wants to do.
I mention this in detail because she's told me about the careful and very thoughtful talks that took place before she was assigned anywhere. She has to complete a written form which asked about her specific needs, not just her needs but the needs of all those she was closely associated with - her family. There were interviews, not a short one-off interview, but a careful consideration based on her written requests. There was mutual trust and dialogue all round.
Not quite how Corps assignments work...at least, at the bottom level. Perhaps only at Prez level.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
Without getting into the geer power-grab fiasco, the trustees and corps leadership had been sending mixed messages for years. In 1978, the corps numbers were swelling at a remarkable rate from the 6th corps thru 9th corps [and amassing corps signatures for another five years]....and corps leadership began to highlight that the corps program was twofold: 1)Training corps to be future twig coordinators and 2)Teaching spiritual men and women to go forth into their communities and business and give back to twi. Remember, within a couple of years, twi had FIVE corps locations with the family/children focus at the Indiana campus AND the trunk office was gearing up for Military Outreach and Medical Outreach.
IMO.....the whole structure and twi system was inadequate and unable to adapt. A thesis paper could be written to encompass the number of variables that caused the weight of this system to come crashing down upon itself, starting with wierwille and trustees. The corps program was not designed to raise men and women for spiritual leadership....but rather, *pfal-class instructors.* You see, the buzzspeak of twi was "the word moves when pfal classes were running." The more drones there were, the more "THE WORD" (pfal) would move over the world. For years, class instructors were not corps.....but hey, with the corps program, more discipline equated to more dedicatation.
But what wierwille and co. failed to recognize was THE WIERWILLE MYSTIQUE WAS FADING. As advanced class grads and corps grew older, the "old model" of roa tent camping and communes was dissipating. With each passing year, the concerns for good employment, careers, advancements, educations, families, etc. were seeping into the conscience of even the lowly dullard. It wasn't brain surgery.....it was simple reality! Where were the signs, miracles or wonders of God? Those corps weeks and rock of ages times were fun times of REUNITING WITH OLD FRIENDS......not the power of God in manifestation!!!
And really, all those military analogies fall flat when one gets past basic calisthenics. The way corps was filled with zealous volunteers, mostly, wanting to help people and serve God. Two years of inresidence and aerobic points does NOT make for an elite fight force or whatever. What a pile of bull-hooie. And, after graduation, volunteer corps were paying their own way to move year after year to different locations. I would venture to say that nearly 90% of all corps were 'on their own'.......no salary, no compensation, no healthcare, no retirement package.
Even church ministers, who are shuffled every 5 years [an apples to oranges comparison] have a church location, congregants, already in place. They are not given this nebulous set of directives.......to organize witnessing nights, public ex's, find locations and run pfal classes.
Okay, now I got a headache. That's enough. :asdf:/>
.
Edited by skyriderLink to comment
Share on other sites
Twinky
If we'd really seen the power of God in manifestation rather than the works of man (one particular man and it wasn't JC) then things would have been VERY different.
Sure some people were delivered from various illnesses, mental prisons and other predicaments. Especially at twig/branch level. We can all attest to meeting some awesome people at that sort of level.
But deliverance after being prayed for at BoD level? Nah. Though you might find you were afraid to admit to some need if any of the BoD were around.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
waysider
Move The Word = Sell PFAL.
Word Over The World = Run lots of classes.
Even today, when I hear people talk about how they're still moving the word, what they really mean is they are promoting the contents of PFAL.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
outandabout
I doubt the BOD prayed for anybody - but we had to pray for THEM
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
yeah, they were at the top of our frikkin lift list, outieboutie my friend. i don't think the prayers did any good lol
hey, great posts steve l and twinky and ww and sky and all the rest of you
i wonder how many "military leaders" became "way corps leaders"
i'm wondering about craig martindale being military as well as walter cummins and vince finnegan and bo reahard. i know they had what it took to sacrifice it all, did they not? like howard and donnie and ermal and all our friends out in TV land.
i know for sure, rose-o-lee and don lombardi were military commandos or something :)
Link to comment
Share on other sites
JavaJane
Here's a story for you:
One of my brothers was in the military. He was assigned to an area that had no fellowships. He was encouraged by leadership to not take the assignment (given by his superiors that would make or break his military career) because of the lack of a local fellowship. WTF?
And another one:
A dear friend of mine is married to a Marine. They were assigned to a base that was an hour and a half away from the closest fellowship. The local limb leader approached me one day and told me that he just couldn't understand their priorities by taking that assignment. I told him that when you are in the military you go where you are assigned - and that he should understand, being in a program that was based on the MARINE CORPS.
Stupid @$$.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ham
"snip", heh.
Maybe it was the best thing for the kid..
still ended up being a fruitcake though. In my opinion.. maybe with a closer bond to pops he would have turned out even worse..
its just a thought.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
skyrider
With the martindale lawsuit and ouster.....I think that corps grads on the field got the upper edge as well. Obviously, there was SIN IN TWI'S TRUSTEE-CAMP and the manipulation that was once there vanished. Not only were these corps grads hitting the 50-year old age grouping, they were ensconced in homes, neighborhoods, school districts, and careers that many, if not most, were unwilling to leave. At this stage of life, and especially on the heels of the martindale sex romps/lawsuit/ouster......if push came to shove, corps grads would have willingly given twi the one-finger salute and exited.
Thus, corps grads are NOT going to be moving any time soon unless they request it. And, even then, it would be to the benefit of the CORPS GRAD, because of a job change or family needs or the pleasant weather in Tampa. The annual placement meetings facillitate the one-on-one time with region coordinators more than reshuffling the deck of the 'committed.' Window dressing for the young corps to see.
Besides......what else is twi doing with that $54 Million? They might as well spend a few bucks and fly the region coordinators in for a week. Micro-managing doesn't work all that well if rosie can't manage the micro-details in her policies.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
I heard another military gentleman tell a story that he dropped out of the military and stopped pursuing career advancement and promotion because the local region coordinator "didn't think it would be best". So the advantages that could be obtained in life including higher retirement pay for him and his family were basically forfeited because some goober with a pumpkin sized head thought they were entitled to meddle in another person's life.
This is like everyone's fault. The military guy for being naieve, the goober for being himself, the military guy's family for not giving him hell for this decision, and TWI for raising up goobers who think like that.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
Here's another little bit of fact in case those reading might think there is a communication disconnect of some sort between TWI and its trained leaders regarding all this moving people around at largely their own expense and to the detriment of quality of life.
One year the leaders were asked for suggestions to improve (yes this was a day when we were all looking around for hell to be freezing over). A couple of people I knew submitted the feedback that although Corps placements were supposed to be for the good of the individual AND the good of the ministry, practically the good of the individual and the family involved were not being considered in placements.
What happened? Rosie the Riveter got ....ed that people were turning down assignments. They publicly put out that the US leaders were complaining too much and needed to be more thankful like the internationals who "put up with hardship to even get the Word". Next, the party line on placements was changed. Now it was "whatever is best for the ministry will be the best for the individual". They explained that because all were serving and doing God's will, that WAS the best for them individually.
This sounds admirable, but the bottom line is "we don't need to care about you because God will". This logical fallacy falls into the same category as "I don't need to take out my trash, God will do it". It promotes mysticism and dependency. It is also a main reason that TWI's leadership and BOD does not deserve to be trusted with the care of your life or your family.
Oh, and here's another secret. If you played politics right, then people would be left in the same area for years, allowing for a more normal integration with a community, and not spending all your life savings on moving expenses that TWI won't pay for, etc. All the placements and moves also are a great way to control people. Demote people, they won't be confident to resist you any more. Move them around and make them spend all their savings, they don't have time to think. They have to scramble to not go in debt - all imposed by this random shuffle of TWI.
Basically, the placement shuffle done by TWI is the operating of a cult. It's trading in human flesh, like you are trading a horse or a cow. The term used in the Bible for this is "menstealers". Sometimes translated "kidnappers", this also encompasses the horse trader definition. It is used for punishment and control. It is also used to prop up and magnify the exemplary bootie kissers.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
chockfull
You know this may sound weird, but I always knew when they were passing around my file and discussing my life. I would get this weird feeling like someone was walking over my grave. And it wasn't paranoia, although with all you know about the process that would be completely understandable. This was very specific.
Now looking back I see my own delusion and density. I mean if God is communicating to me somehow regarding the people in charge of my life in a fashion that they are walking on my grave, then possibly these people should not be trusted and not have the authority over my life to enact evil. You think?
But leaving a cult involves waking up from a slumber.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
OldSkool
My last time in placements, there were a lot of people who had refused their assignments for one reason or another. Rosie was freakin PEEVED. I thought it was funny. I had one foot out the door, and was one of the assignment rejectors myself. I paid hell for rejecting that assignment for many months prior to placements, but that is another story.
The placements process is a joke. At HQ we would do a "informal meeting," where we would basically surprise attack the individual and endeavor to find out anything we could about what they were thinking, their needs, etc. Then we would schedule formal placement interviews. The interviews were very superficial. With HQ staff it was basically who was coming, and who was going. Interviewing way corps was more in-depth, but still artificial. It was artificial because the corps are expected to go wherever, and do whatever is needed. Anything beyond that was damage control to keep another escapee from leaving the farm. Corps who were burnt out bad enough were usually assigned something along what they requested to placate them. Corps who could be burned a little further, and served their purpose, were told to stay put another year. Corps who were out of favor were assigned whatever the hell Rosie saw fit to dole out as a punitive assignment.
Note: Field and staff assignments are handled the same way, during the same meetings.
So we would gather all this information and turn it all in. Placements would be preceded by several pre-placements meetings. It was mostly redundant and editorial. We would read all the assignments in our area, check for accuracy, put in for staff requests for vacant slots, etc. Meanwhile, in between meetings, my director would schedule meetings with me and basically tell me what I needed to staff my areas. He slashed needed positions, but never made any concession in production demands. By the time I got to placements I had been told what I needed, and it was a matter of finding a candidate to fill the slots. Candidate, because nothing final happens in placements, only recommendations from the cabinet. Rosalie has the final say and will change whatever she sees fit on a whim, and you can just deal with the consequence. She cares nothing of that.
Anyway, placements is one giant exercise in futility. TWI has shrunk substantially, and honestly, you could train three monkeys to shuffle people around, and staff whatever is needed. But, we would drag it out over four days of drudgery. Basically, we read thorough information that hads been sorted several ways, and "recommend" available people for positions. Most times, because there were so few people left, the same person would be recommended for multiple positions. Rosalie makes the final call if there is no concession reached between cabinet members. Meetings would adjourn in the afternoons to make phone calls, meet with each other to negotiate, etc.
By the time it's all said and done, the cabinet are administrative assistants for the directors, and amongst them donna and rosalie make the final say. Even though donna is on the cabinet, she is really Rosalie's secret adviser.
Field way corps positions really get buffaloed. You would get your interview, make your requests, and if the request was not what was wanted, you could bet your bottom dollar the request would never make it to HQ for consideration. I know a lot of people who fought for years to be reassigned someplace where they would have a better go of things. There were the very few limb and region guys who were honest, and would do what they could to represent people, but it was all futile. What Chock said is true. What's best for the ministry is best for you.
I remember that topic being explicitly taught at a corps morning teaching by a former VP. He gave the anecdote of himself being assigned to work the fields at HQ years ago. He grudgingly accepted the assignment, and then shared how much he learned in retrospect of God's abundance, and blah, blah, blah. The translation was plain. If you don't like your assignment, renew your mind, and deal with it. If you keep the rose colored glasses on long enough, then you too will like what you didn't like years later, in hindsight. :smilie_kool_aid:/>
Edited by OldSkoolLink to comment
Share on other sites
outandabout
When I graduated from the Corps, I requested "anywhere" because I believed that I God would send me where I was supposed to be. (confusing TWI with God)
I ended up in Mississippi and lived the two worst years of my entire life.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
socks
This reminds me - Florida. Gerald Wr enn was the goober limb boss there, and region tool at a point if I recall. After he got kicked off that job for - I think the press release version was that he'd overworked himself and his family life suffered as a result and he needed some well earned time for that - the report from the beleaguered corps in his region he'd abused for years was the usual litany of $, women and lies. In the beginning of my second year there I could vouch that he was a liar extraordinaire, a bully with a direct line to VPW and all around general purpose mook.
Great guy when I first met him, did some things together, some ministry work - great guy. Went south and sour, per anyone who relied on him or needed his assistance. Unless you had money or stuff or golfed or had something he wanted in which case you were golden.
The Corps Assignments -
I knew generally that the assignment meetings had become exercises in geo - management, some common sense strategy planning and increasing amounts of dart board on a map "who wants him" stuff. The logic of the earliest expansion discussions I heard or was a part of when we planned Way Production tours wasn't rocket science or suited for Mount Sinai - the early WOW office, and Trunk coordination were pretty straightforward IMO and down to earth.
Then when we went to Florida I became aware of what an ego driven political circle jerk it had become for the about 50 or so region, limb, area and trunk people. There were some assignments that didn't match or make sense. I had a Branch that was fairly large and one of the last years where any PFAL classes or fellowship expansion occurred down there, according to what those who came after told me. I asked GW about some of the assignments, what the thought was, the guidance, etc. on three people specifically - two who'd told me they'd requested a change and been denied without explanation - and one who'd just shown up there kind of obviously dazed but was really a nice guy who I thought deserved better than being squeezed in - it seemed he could do better with a better assignment.
I was told - course it's no surprise now - 1. it's not my place to ask 2. since you won't stop, the people who want to leave are wrong and need to stay and 3.
and this was unusual because in GW's anger he actually told the truth I think, out of sheer egotism -
That the one guys' name had been brought up, there was no obvious assignment and GW had raised his hand and said "I'll take him!" and that was how it went down. He just wanted more Corps, as many as he could get in his state - period, honest as he could be and now it was "my job" - his words - to make it work. In other words he was a total dik about it and was hell bent on bumping his numbers up to be the biggest limb, biggest region and if there was anything going on in the Way he wanted a lot of it so he'd be up front and center. He left it up to everyone else to figure out how to make that madness work.
It didn't, and by the second year in he was on the way out and everyone breathed a HUGE sigh of relief. Craig acted surprised - why hadn't he been told about all the bs sooner - and he had been but he wasn't listening and didn't have time for it. VPW was shocked - my God, this is the man who was going to help me move the WOW!!! Duh.
Anyhoo - the kindest thing I could say about these things were you have to speak up, be prepared, represent your own interests and be emphatic and passionate about what you wanted. Then flip a coin and come out swinging (metaphorically speaking of course).
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.