WW that's a really good point, and as far as the Wow pin for the football player...That is just despicable. I really have no words for that. Nothing against the football player, he may have even been embarrassed by that. What a bunch of cornfield hicks. And nothing against cornfield hicks either...I better shut up now. But geez. Furthering the ministry. Yeah, that's the excuse they give the so called "celebrities" you're right. Unreal.
Yeah, there was Tony Collins, Jim Schoenfeld the hockey player. No scripture on how to deal with celebrities other than "no respect of persons". There were no celebs when the bible was written. Jesus was really the first celebrity who wasn't royalty or military. The people who murdered him certainly weren't respecters of persons lol.
As for JWs, I personally have never been in a discussion with one which didn't turn into an argument. Romans says as much as possible live peaceable with all, but it's not always possible.
These crackpots always have a special exception for celebrities.
They don't have to do the gruntwork, they get awards but skip the earning of them, etc.
Remember that Tony Collins (New England Patriots) was awarded a WOW pin despite never having
gone WOW or even signing up?
According to lcm's OWN ACCOUNT (vp and me),
all the local leadership in New England were AGAINST lcm showing up and giving him a WOW pin (1984),
and told him it was being a "RESPECTER OF PERSONS." lcm decided to do it after consulting
with vpw, and was convinced it would further the ministry.
This was one of the first things that really started the process of me eventually leaving TWI. If one were a doctor, a judge (you'll remember we had a Federal Judge speak at one ROA), a professional athlete, psychiatrist or the owner of a huge business, such as Buck Stoves, a Broadway actress, or professional musician, you were greatly revered in the ministry. However, if you were young and career-minded and wanted to take the time to develop yourself, you were ostracized. I knew quite a few people who quit doing things in the name of "moving the Word".
It's what I like to call "trophy mentality". We had a local/regional musician in the Cleveland area who was active in the Jesus movement. (He is now internationally known. But that's not the point.) We courted him, so to speak, in efforts to get him to take the PFAL class so we could use him as an example. It's really an old door-to-door sales technique.... "Well, Mrs. Jones, your neighbor down the street, Mrs. Smith, bought these recently and just loves them."
Richard Thomas says that when he was apprentice corps, Dr. Rawlins was his biggest sponsor. He lived in the same house she did and that she was a heavy hitter, ABS wise, and she could call VP any time about anything. She always wanted to have twig after a delivery, even if it was 3AM. Overall, Richard described the experience as sometimes inconvenient, but not abusive.
Come to think of it, scripture says that God is not a respecter of persons, but people sure are. Celebrity itself is respect of persons. So is sexual attraction. But, yeah, some people acted like twi people are pure and clean and don't DO that. Uh huh.
johniam what was that about sexual attraction? didn't understand
--
excathedra, on 25 May 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:
i sold the way books door-to-door could be why i'm jaded
I dunno. Were you good at it?
George
well they taught us things like falling off our book case which we sat on to give our presentation. so people would feel sorry for us and buy the books
well they taught us things like falling off our book case which we sat on to give our presentation. so people would feel sorry for us and buy the books
johniam what was that about sexual attraction? didn't understand
--
well they taught us things like falling off our book case which we sat on to give our presentation. so people would feel sorry for us and buy the books
They taught you to fall off a bookcase? Ha ha ha ha.
This would be that same ministry that expected everything to be perfect and if the books weren't arranged absolutely symmetrically or by type or size or whatever, "decently and in order," that opened the door to devil spirits. And now you have to fall off the bookcase and disrupt the display? :confused:/>
Do the JWs sell anything, apart from giving away The Watchtower?
One of my friends from church got away from the JWs. He has a tale to tell. He wasn't "baptised" or whatever their commitment thing is, so his mother is allowed still to talk to him. His sister, who was baptised, has also walked away and his mother is not allowed to talk to her apostate daughter. There are lots of things he told me that have an oh-so-familiar ring to them.
Falling off a bookcase? OK. Got it! TWI, promoting that the law of believing works for saint and sinner alike, would occasionally advertise books and ideas that were not Christian. One such was a book called, The magic of thinking big. Remember it...anybody. I read it. In one chapter a large bodied man wanted to be a salesman. But his size was so intimidating to prospective customers that he had little success. Then he tried a trick. He even practiced this at home. He would walk into the office of a customer and deliberately spill the entire contents of his briefcase, then pretend to have given up on the sale "Oh. I'm so sorry, let me pick this up and leave, sir, I'm so sorry, etc." This strategy got the person to lighten up about his size and almost always resulted in a sale. So, at least here, it did work.
Excathedra, I was talking about how God is no respecter of persons, but people are, and sexual attraction is one way that people are respecters of persons.
Well that's the problem. I DON'T know scripture well. I mean, not to the point where I'm able to hold my own with anybody who really knows scripture. Digressing here just for a moment, one of the things I tell people is that don't let somebody who knows a lot of scripture fool you into thinking they know what they are talking about. I know a lady who is quite astute at memorizing verses but she twists things so ludicrously you have to put about 90% of what she says through the BS filter.
Anyway, I totally agree your part about knowing a specific technique with specific verses. You put that well. Because that is exactly what I felt with the guy. I ALSO was thinking of you, WordWolf, and at least a dozen other greasespotters here that would have nailed this guy in no time. But me trying to argue back would have been useless. I would have lost. lol. He still thinks he had the upper hand in that "conversation" I'm sure.
Lesson learned for me is don't engage with these type of people. I even told him I just watched a crime documentary the night before (one of these ID Discovery shows) where a family from Allentown Pa. got massacred, they were JW's. Their own sons massacred the family, mom, dad, and younger brother, and the parents were so terrified of these kids (shortly before this happened) they went to their church "elders" for help, and got no help, they were told it was a test from God and to deal with it on their own.
This young guy, Nayr (that's his name spelled backward, lol) told me, "Well, different elders deal with situations different ways." THAT's his freaking answer? Sheesh. Anyway, I digress.
But yeah, I'll leave the scripture battles for those who are better at it than me. I would just end up with egg on my face. But it was an eye opener. I'm not going to feel guilty about hiding in my hallway when they come to my door. That's for sure.
RG, when a JW starts to witness to me, I say "thank you, but I am not interested." And then, I walk away. You have the right not to listen to people. I am polite, but very firm. Usually, that is the end of it.
These crackpots always have a special exception for celebrities.
They don't have to do the gruntwork, they get awards but skip the earning of them, etc.
Remember that Tony Collins (New England Patriots) was awarded a WOW pin despite never having
gone WOW or even signing up?
According to lcm's OWN ACCOUNT (vp and me),
all the local leadership in New England were AGAINST lcm showing up and giving him a WOW pin (1984),
and told him it was being a "RESPECTER OF PERSONS." lcm decided to do it after consulting
with vpw, and was convinced it would further the ministry.
WW, I remember reading in the Way Mag about why TC, and some other football player got WOW pins, when they never went WOW. I was just a "wee" upset about it. I worked my azz off for my pin, and it really meant a great deal to me. My WOW year was a struggle for me; I didn't know at times, if I would make it through the year. Then LCM gave two professional football players WOW pins, which they didn't deserve. I was so upset about this, that I never wore my WOW pin again.
This was one of the first things that really started the process of me eventually leaving TWI. If one were a doctor, a judge (you'll remember we had a Federal Judge speak at one ROA), a professional athlete, psychiatrist or the owner of a huge business, such as Buck Stoves, a Broadway actress, or professional musician, you were greatly revered in the ministry. However, if you were young and career-minded and wanted to take the time to develop yourself, you were ostracized. I knew quite a few people who quit doing things in the name of "moving the Word".
BA, you are so right. If you were young, and were serious about starting a career, leadership looked down on you. I know when I was in college, I worked two jobs, to pay for my education. I didn't have a lot of free time, to witness, or do Ministry things. My Branch Leader treated me like dirt; but I got my degree. To Hell with him!
Exie don't feel bad, you are right. I guess I got caught up with that dude last week while I was walking around with him and didn't have the right things to say back. Now, a week later, what you said perfectly fits how I feel at the moment. Why the heck should I care? Like I said, if he comes around again, I'm planning my escape. Let my boss deal with him. />
PS exie. My friend says the same thing to me when I call him up complaining about one of my problems. He gives me some sound advice, usually, then tells me he wishes he had my problems. lol. For the last two weeks my big problem has been putting my foot down with my pot smoking neighbor who comes over here to smoke pot, cause she hides it from her husband. I finally decided I'm just going to tell her she just can't do it anymore. It drives me insane. HEY, I used to smoke pot A LOT, back in the 80s and some of the 90s. I don't care who smokes pot, JUST NOT IN MY HOUSE! OR IN MY YARD! I wouldn't just light up a cigarette in somebodies house, what makes it okay to light up your POT in my house? Sheesh! Okay, thank you. I feel better now.
PS. Plus last time she ate all my ding-dongs. :(/>
RG, she did what??!! I would kick her azz out, if she did that to me!!!
I debated with a couple of Mormon missionaries once who were trying to convert a friend. Was told later, the young man rang his parents back in the u.s.a. ( something they're not meant to do whilst on their mission ) crying telling them he didn't believe anymore...should I feel bad about it ?
Allan, hell no!! I think that's great!! A lot of people leave the Mormon Church; thank God!!
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RottieGrrrl
WW that's a really good point, and as far as the Wow pin for the football player...That is just despicable. I really have no words for that. Nothing against the football player, he may have even been embarrassed by that. What a bunch of cornfield hicks. And nothing against cornfield hicks either...I better shut up now. But geez. Furthering the ministry. Yeah, that's the excuse they give the so called "celebrities" you're right. Unreal.
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johniam
Yeah, there was Tony Collins, Jim Schoenfeld the hockey player. No scripture on how to deal with celebrities other than "no respect of persons". There were no celebs when the bible was written. Jesus was really the first celebrity who wasn't royalty or military. The people who murdered him certainly weren't respecters of persons lol.
As for JWs, I personally have never been in a discussion with one which didn't turn into an argument. Romans says as much as possible live peaceable with all, but it's not always possible.
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Broken Arrow
This was one of the first things that really started the process of me eventually leaving TWI. If one were a doctor, a judge (you'll remember we had a Federal Judge speak at one ROA), a professional athlete, psychiatrist or the owner of a huge business, such as Buck Stoves, a Broadway actress, or professional musician, you were greatly revered in the ministry. However, if you were young and career-minded and wanted to take the time to develop yourself, you were ostracized. I knew quite a few people who quit doing things in the name of "moving the Word".
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waysider
It's what I like to call "trophy mentality". We had a local/regional musician in the Cleveland area who was active in the Jesus movement. (He is now internationally known. But that's not the point.) We courted him, so to speak, in efforts to get him to take the PFAL class so we could use him as an example. It's really an old door-to-door sales technique.... "Well, Mrs. Jones, your neighbor down the street, Mrs. Smith, bought these recently and just loves them."
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excathedra
i sold the way books door-to-door could be why i'm jaded
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GeorgeStGeorge
I dunno. Were you good at it? :lol:
George
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skyrider
Yeah......celebrities, notables and deep-pocket donors.
Under the *notables* category, I would highlight someone like Dr. Carolyn Rawl!ns. In her medical field,
she had delivered somewhere in the neighborhood of 10,000 babies. She had a distinguished reputation and
purchased a home near the Rome City campus. Can't remember if she was Recognized Corps or if she did a
soft-stint, one-year inrez.....but whatever, she certainly didn't do any gruntwork or endure any face
melting confrontations.
Other notables would be the Lynn Sr. or Wineg@rner Sr. folks. Others come to mind....but you get my point.
Now.....the deep-pocket donors would give way to the subtle forms of favoritism. Included in this group,
would be Rosalie F. Shumate...er, Rivenbark, Linda McD_ffie, Moynih@ns, Freder_cks, etc. See,
right from the get-go.....they get favored staff positions. Rosalie never went WOW, never took a field
assignment, never ran a pfal class as far as I know. Yeah....the fast-track to the inner circle, baby.
Respecter of persons? Not in twi...............pfffffftttt.
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johniam
Richard Thomas says that when he was apprentice corps, Dr. Rawlins was his biggest sponsor. He lived in the same house she did and that she was a heavy hitter, ABS wise, and she could call VP any time about anything. She always wanted to have twig after a delivery, even if it was 3AM. Overall, Richard described the experience as sometimes inconvenient, but not abusive.
Come to think of it, scripture says that God is not a respecter of persons, but people sure are. Celebrity itself is respect of persons. So is sexual attraction. But, yeah, some people acted like twi people are pure and clean and don't DO that. Uh huh.
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excathedra
people with money always got special attention
johniam what was that about sexual attraction? didn't understand
--
well they taught us things like falling off our book case which we sat on to give our presentation. so people would feel sorry for us and buy the books
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GeorgeStGeorge
Seriously? That's hysterical!
George
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Broken Arrow
Did it work?
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Twinky
They taught you to fall off a bookcase? Ha ha ha ha.
This would be that same ministry that expected everything to be perfect and if the books weren't arranged absolutely symmetrically or by type or size or whatever, "decently and in order," that opened the door to devil spirits. And now you have to fall off the bookcase and disrupt the display? :confused:/>
Do the JWs sell anything, apart from giving away The Watchtower?
One of my friends from church got away from the JWs. He has a tale to tell. He wasn't "baptised" or whatever their commitment thing is, so his mother is allowed still to talk to him. His sister, who was baptised, has also walked away and his mother is not allowed to talk to her apostate daughter. There are lots of things he told me that have an oh-so-familiar ring to them.
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johniam
Falling off a bookcase? OK. Got it! TWI, promoting that the law of believing works for saint and sinner alike, would occasionally advertise books and ideas that were not Christian. One such was a book called, The magic of thinking big. Remember it...anybody. I read it. In one chapter a large bodied man wanted to be a salesman. But his size was so intimidating to prospective customers that he had little success. Then he tried a trick. He even practiced this at home. He would walk into the office of a customer and deliberately spill the entire contents of his briefcase, then pretend to have given up on the sale "Oh. I'm so sorry, let me pick this up and leave, sir, I'm so sorry, etc." This strategy got the person to lighten up about his size and almost always resulted in a sale. So, at least here, it did work.
Excathedra, I was talking about how God is no respecter of persons, but people are, and sexual attraction is one way that people are respecters of persons.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Way, not only were some us annoying, but some of us were PITAs!
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Grace Valerie Claire
RG, when a JW starts to witness to me, I say "thank you, but I am not interested." And then, I walk away. You have the right not to listen to people. I am polite, but very firm. Usually, that is the end of it.
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Grace Valerie Claire
WW, I remember reading in the Way Mag about why TC, and some other football player got WOW pins, when they never went WOW. I was just a "wee" upset about it. I worked my azz off for my pin, and it really meant a great deal to me. My WOW year was a struggle for me; I didn't know at times, if I would make it through the year. Then LCM gave two professional football players WOW pins, which they didn't deserve. I was so upset about this, that I never wore my WOW pin again.
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Grace Valerie Claire
BA, you are so right. If you were young, and were serious about starting a career, leadership looked down on you. I know when I was in college, I worked two jobs, to pay for my education. I didn't have a lot of free time, to witness, or do Ministry things. My Branch Leader treated me like dirt; but I got my degree. To Hell with him!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Way, that's what I do!! I am not interested in what they have to say, but I am polite when I deal with them.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Way, neither do I. But, I am polite when I deal with them.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Unless you have an animal!
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Grace Valerie Claire
RG, she did what??!! I would kick her azz out, if she did that to me!!!
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Grace Valerie Claire
Allan, hell no!! I think that's great!! A lot of people leave the Mormon Church; thank God!!
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