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Can a christian be possessed?


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Hey,

I have many, many christian friends who insist that christians can not be possessed by devil spirits because You have the spirit of God in you and no other spirit can reside in the same place as God is, nor would they want to. This sounds very strong to me.

And I do know what TWI taught.

Just asking, what do you think?

Thanks,

Judy

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I think this is a very complicated subject, with related sub-categories

confused for each other.

As I see it (there's no STANDARDIZED terminology),

there's demonic possession,

demonic obsession,

demonic influence,

and temptation.

With demonic possession, I'm referring to the extreme, when a person has

no more control over their body- a demon is "driving."

I don't think that could happen to a Christian for the aforementioned

reason.

With demonic obsession, the person still technically has control, but is

prepared to choose to do what the demon wants, whether eagerly or

grudgingly, but the result is the demon is in control without actually

driving the person. I see Christians as capable at this stage, and it

can look like demonic possession for most things- like if they commit

murder or something similarly heinous.

With demonic influence, the person's inviting demonic activity and may or

may not cooperate and do what the demon wants.

With temptation, the demon is trying to get some opportunity to act or

influence.

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WordWolf is very right about this not being a simple subject, but it is made even more complex by the King James translation. There are many places where the KJV talks about people being "possessed with a/the devil." So people today talk about those who are possessed BY devils, as if the demons OWN the people.

But in actuality, these verses say that people are "demonized" or influenced by demons. They do NOT say that people are owned by demons.

There are two verses where the Greek word echo, "to have" is used, Acts 8:7 and Acts 16:16. In both of these verses, the demons don't "have" the people, the people "have" the demons.

The whole modern idea of "demon possession" is in many ways bass-ackward from what the Bible actually says...

Love,

Steve

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Good point.

Poor terminology can lead to misunderstanding things because someone's trying to

shoehorn their thinking to fit it into accord with a term that is incorrect and

deceptively wrong. The Pharisees accused Jesus of having a devil.

"Demonized" is probably as good a term as any for the subject of demonic activity.

Irrelevant example of stupidity by misunderstanding terms:

Someone once was telling of the resources at their disposal. They started saying

what it was that they "possessed." vpw objected to that term because

"only the devil possesses." If it were true that A devil possesses, then it would

not be true that ONLY A devil possesses, because the term only means something

because there's other usages- like possessing your computer or cellphone or

change for the bus or things like that, or even abstracts like possessing the

ability to whistle or wiggle your ears or whatever. What makes this even MORE

egregious is- as was just mentioned- A devil doesn't actually "possess" the

person according to the Bible. I mean, really, "possessed" is "daimonizomai"

and stuff like that to even a cursory read of an Interlinear. vpw didn't know

any better?

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Within the context of the Advanced Class, it was taught that believers could NOT be possessed... and... that they COULD be possessed. Both positions are found in the AC syllabus. I have cited this contradiction in the past. Like so many other things, I think VPW simply did a cut and paste without understanding what he was copying. For that reason, I wouldn't give much credence to whatever you may have heard in TWI.

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Thanks for your posts. This has been a troubling subject to me in and out of TWI. I was repeatedly told how possessed I was in TWI....And you could probably guess how that affected me. And when Out, I questioned it all the time...am I?......am I not? Back and forth. At some time, I kind of let go of it some, but never left me. Then I started getting christian friends and they told me that a christian could not be possessed....Of course, knowing the teaching and only the teaching of TWI on this, I would discard what they said. But, as I had more christians in my life, I would hear this a lot....A christian can not be possessed because you have the spirit of God inside of you....no devil spirit can or wants to be where the spirit of God is. That made a heck of a lot sense to me and So that's why the topic. Even though, I don't know you all, I know you came from the same place as I have and have pursued truth. So, Thank-you for the truth you have shared. I can put it to rest.

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I'm glad you can put it to rest, newlife! Christians have nothing to fear from demons. Simply do your best to think and behave the way the Lord wants you to, and the demons can't gain any foothold.

The things Wierwille taught in the Advanced Class were baloney, and he was either knowingly lying or he had been hoodwinked himself.

Accusing people of being possessed was a method TWI leaders used to discredit anybody who disagreed with them, and it became the catch-all explanation for why anybody (except the leaders, of course) failed to comply with expected TWI behavior.

Enjoy the deliverance and freedom you have in Jesus Christ!

Love,

Steve

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Thanks for your posts. This has been a troubling subject to me in and out of TWI. I was repeatedly told how possessed I was in TWI....And you could probably guess how that affected me. And when Out, I questioned it all the time...am I?......am I not? Back and forth.

Mark 5:1-5 (NASB)

1 They came to the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gerasenes. 2 When He got out of the boat, immediately a man from the tombs with an unclean spirit met Him, 3 and he had his dwelling among the tombs. And no one was able to bind him anymore, even with a chain; 4 because he had often been bound with shackles and chains, and the chains had been torn apart by him and the shackles broken in pieces, and no one was strong enough to subdue him. 5 Constantly, night and day, he was screaming among the tombs and in the mountains, and gashing himself with stones.

Does that sound anything like how you acted when they were accusing you?

If not, they were f'ing morons for trying that accusation.

Me, I probably would have laughed in their faces.

At some time, I kind of let go of it some, but never left me. Then I started getting christian friends and they told me that a christian could not be possessed....Of course, knowing the teaching and only the teaching of TWI on this, I would discard what they said. But, as I had more christians in my life, I would hear this a lot....A christian can not be possessed because you have the spirit of God inside of you....no devil spirit can or wants to be where the spirit of God is. That made a heck of a lot sense to me and So that's why the topic. Even though, I don't know you all, I know you came from the same place as I have and have pursued truth. So, Thank-you for the truth you have shared. I can put it to rest.

If you want to avoid alcoholism, avoid bars.

If you want to avoid advanced demon problems, avoid minor demon problems.

If you want to avoid minor demon problems, avoid sin as best you can,

mentally and physically.

I'm glad you can put it to rest, newlife! Christians have nothing to fear from demons. Simply do your best to think and behave the way the Lord wants you to, and the demons can't gain any foothold.

The things Wierwille taught in the Advanced Class were baloney, and he was either knowingly lying or he had been hoodwinked himself.

Accusing people of being possessed was a method TWI leaders used to discredit anybody who disagreed with them, and it became the catch-all explanation for why anybody (except the leaders, of course) failed to comply with expected TWI behavior.

Enjoy the deliverance and freedom you have in Jesus Christ!

Love,

Steve

BINGO.

Edited by WordWolf
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Thanks for your posts. This has been a troubling subject to me in and out of TWI. I was repeatedly told how possessed I was in TWI....And you could probably guess how that affected me.

Standard technique, newlife.

Just about everybody who left or was thrown out had their name blackened and was denounced as being "possessed." And if those who remained in TWI dared contact or associate with the ones who had departed, they too would become "possessed" and would "weaken the ministry."

It was manipulation, pure and simple.

One Rev's daughter killed herself. The Rev and his wife were banished as being possessed and not able to care for their family - it was their fault she had done this. And anyone who contacted the Rev to offer comfort would themselves become possessed.

Does that sound loving? Where are the words of comfort? Where is the kindness?

Another Rev had questions in the fog years. Some close friends, another Corps couple (maybe he was a Rev too) contacted them; this was found out by HQ; the second couple immediately became possessed and were ignominiously thrown out.

Does that sound like kindness? Like the open response that Jesus would give to those who had doubts?

TWI built up fear of the devil, fear of devil spirits ... within TWI you could learn far more about this than about the real and healing power of God and the loving ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Did you ever see Jesus acting in this way towards those who walked away from him? Did any of the apostles behave like this? On the contrary - for example, we see Simon the Sorcerer continuing to hang around with the apostles. And Simon had packed some "big ones."

You are not, and never were, possessed, newlife.

But maybe those who remained and still remain at TWI in face of all they must know, suspect or have observed - maybe they are at least influenced by d.s.

And you could probably guess how that affected me.

Yes, they tried this on me too, and I lived with guilt and fear for years. I was afraid of other Christians - other people! - and ashamed of myself before God.

Thank God, He was not ashamed of me. He found a way to drag me out of that.

I hate those lying evil manipulators for what they have done to ruin so many lives. The best thing you can do, newlife, is to live your life fully, without fear, and love God the best you know how. He loves you and will never abandon or forsake you.

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Thank-you for your posts.......whew....you have no idea how this has really helped me out. I've been carrying this question for many, many, years, always wondering if someone would come up and tell me, hey you're possessed. It is very evil for people to tell people this.....And I wish I would of brought this to GSC a long time ago, but at least I have now. Thank you for your posts, your compassion and help. What a freedom you have given to me......Thank-you

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  • 3 years later...
On 5/29/2014 at 10:30 AM, newlife said:

Thanks for your posts. This has been a troubling subject to me in and out of TWI. I was repeatedly told how possessed I was in TWI....And you could probably guess how that affected me. And when Out, I questioned it all the time...am I?......am I not? Back and forth. At some time, I kind of let go of it some, but never left me. Then I started getting christian friends and they told me that a christian could not be possessed....Of course, knowing the teaching and only the teaching of TWI on this, I would discard what they said. But, as I had more christians in my life, I would hear this a lot....A christian can not be possessed because you have the spirit of God inside of you....no devil spirit can or wants to be where the spirit of God is. That made a heck of a lot sense to me and So that's why the topic. Even though, I don't know you all, I know you came from the same place as I have and have pursued truth. So, Thank-you for the truth you have shared. I can put it to rest.

NL, I don't know Jack about Devil Spirits.  However, I think Mental Health Specialists can help people overcome some of their personal problems.  Mine is wonderful; God bless her!!

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On 5/28/2014 at 9:37 PM, WordWolf said:

Good point.

Poor terminology can lead to misunderstanding things because someone's trying to

shoehorn their thinking to fit it into accord with a term that is incorrect and

deceptively wrong. The Pharisees accused Jesus of having a devil.

"Demonized" is probably as good a term as any for the subject of demonic activity.

Irrelevant example of stupidity by misunderstanding terms:

Someone once was telling of the resources at their disposal. They started saying

what it was that they "possessed." vpw objected to that term because

"only the devil possesses." If it were true that A devil possesses, then it would

not be true that ONLY A devil possesses, because the term only means something

because there's other usages- like possessing your computer or cellphone or

change for the bus or things like that, or even abstracts like possessing the

ability to whistle or wiggle your ears or whatever. What makes this even MORE

egregious is- as was just mentioned- A devil doesn't actually "possess" the

person according to the Bible. I mean, really, "possessed" is "daimonizomai"

and stuff like that to even a cursory read of an Interlinear. vpw didn't know

any better?

WW, I didn't know this.  Thanks for the information!

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