Not one time did I ever witness ANYTHING OF WIERWILLE in the spiritual realm.
The work program of corps training was, supposedly, to teach attention to detail and greater spiritual awareness. The wierwille-shtick went something like this....."If you can't observe and maintain details in the physical realm, then you will simply be unqualified when it comes to the spiritual realm." So, the corps-shlub plods along on the "learning curve" doing all the grunt work that twi mandates.
Ten years later......the corps grad is STILL showing up for corps week/rock of ages and cleaning the porta-potties. While the elite-spiritual heads teach from the main stage and soak in the unbridled adulation.
I think one of the lies that enabled Wierwille to pull this off was the teaching from the foundational class that there are two realms, the senses realm and the spiritual realm, and that the laws of the spiritual realm supercede the laws of the senses realm. If you learn to manipulate the laws of the spirit realm, you can control what happens in the senses realm. I know that's one of the things that stuck out for me when I took the foundational class.
The advanced class was supposed to teach us how to operate the laws of the spirit realm, but it didn't, because there IS NO SUCH THING AS A SPIRIT REALM, and the Bible nowhere teaches that there is.
If we study the word aisthesis and it's cognates, translated "perceive," "judgment" and "senses" we find that the Bible exhorts us to exercise COMMON SENSE.
Wierwille taught us to ignore our common sense about what he was doing to us, and to strive to "acquire an in depth spiritual awareness and perception" that doesn't exist.
I think one of the lies that enabled Wierwille to pull this off was the teaching from the foundational class that there are two realms, the senses realm and the spiritual realm, and that the laws of the spiritual realm supercede the laws of the senses realm. If you learn to manipulate the laws of the spirit realm, you can control what happens in the senses realm. I know that's one of the things that stuck out for me when I took the foundational class.
The advanced class was supposed to teach us how to operate the laws of the spirit realm, but it didn't, because there IS NO SUCH THING AS A SPIRIT REALM, and the Bible nowhere teaches that there is.
If we study the word aisthesis and it's cognates, translated "perceive," "judgment" and "senses" we find that the Bible exhorts us to exercise COMMON SENSE.
Wierwille taught us to ignore our common sense about what he was doing to us, and to strive to "acquire an in depth spiritual awareness and perception" that doesn't exist.
when wierwille was at the college girl way home standing NAKED when i went by, my "leader" KL said he was so spiritual (like above the senses) that the flesh didn't matter -- he wasn't a pervert
and THEN when limb leader came to visit and she told me to lie down with him (in a bed at night time) -- not sure if i lived there by then or was visiting -- just to "comfort" him -- spiritually -- nothing to do with the flesh or senses -- yes he was married -- i was not. i laid there for a few minutes and then he was feeling me up and i got the "f" out of there
but there's so much more
and i did finally buy into some of it i guess even though i became a sick nervous wreck -- like i wasn't already -- hearing the same thing from people before i got in the way -- p eople who were totally "senses realm" lol
oh man
ps. MOST people in the way corps program got their money from sponsors
The primary objective of The Way Corps, FellowLaborers and now S.O.W.E.R.S is this:
1. Acquire an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness.
What sort of success rate can a venture expect when it's #1 goal is to capture a unicorn?
The Way Corps’ success rate was abysmal. Their pronouncements of the spiritual status of a situation were totally self-serving. I remember some folks complaining about the unethical business practices of our branch leader. His response: teachings on how murmuring was sinful and that devil spirits are turning people against him.
Jump forward to being in the Family Corps – the Passing of the Patriarch is read while the wife and I are in residence; we’re not real sure what’s being done to straighten things out – but we’re often reminded that we’re really under fire from devil spirits now…. yeah, no $hi+ Sherlock and for some reason they look a lot like TWI’s top leadership!
I think this was the beginning of a major doubt growing in my mind “if this ministry has more of the rightly divided word than anyone else then why is there all this fighting and confusion?” And then there’s all the tough-talk from our corps as to how to persevere in this spiritual fight once we leave Rome City “yup, we’re gonna run PFAL back to back.” Oh yeah, I forgot about the magic bullet for every spiritual problem.
Then we’re on assignment out in the field. Away from the entanglements of corps residence, my mind seems to be festering with more questions and doubts. I buy a few commentaries at an estate sale down the block from our home. Check out some books on theology at the library, look into vp’s credentials and start dialoging with other corps in my state who have some issues with TWI too.
I start sharing some of my concerns with our corps via letters. The feedback we get implies we are deceived by devil spirits. And I mean it’s unanimous.
So to re-phrase my opening statement for those who dive deep into the spirituality of the spirited bull$hi+Uality: The Way Corps is to an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness what Walter White is to methamphetamine. They both made money by peddling their $hi+ to suckers. But from what I’ve read though it seems methamphetamine in low doses will actually increase alertness, concentration and energy.
Jump forward to being in the Family Corps – the Passing of the Patriarch is read while the wife and I are in residence; we’re not real sure what’s being done to straighten things out – but we’re often reminded that we’re really under fire from devil spirits now…. yeah, no $hi+ Sherlock and for some reason they look a lot like TWI’s top leadership!
:biglaugh:
Twi's corps program was an absolute devil-spirits-everywhere-cluster-fest.
HAS ANYONE NOTICED......that every corps coordinator [except moneyhands]
has headed for the hills, far away from twi !!!!
Yet...the doctrines of devils remains. Suspicion, manipulation, abuse, seduction,
exploitation, isolation, containment, slander, demagogue, etc.
In spiritualizing EVERYTHING, twi has mocked the essence of "walking by the spirit."
If mowing grass is spiritual, lining chairs is spiritual, etc......how come leaders
never seemed to discern any "possessed" people and CAST OUT DEVIL SPIRITS? Heck,
these were the leaders who, supposedly, walked with all-nine-all-the-time and yet
everyone of them got bamboozled by wierwille and the poop-master, geer.
Yeah....corps coordinators scattered to the four winds.
Teaching sound doctrine in the corps program? Ppppppffffftt.
If mowing grass, cleaning toilets and scrubbing floors could really build spiritual acumen, the leaders should have been falling over each other for opportunities to grow. Instead, what we witnessed was a glowing example of what a toxic, hostile workplace should look like. They were nothing more than a bunch of bullies, despite their ability to smile and say, "God bless, you're the best.".
VPW was an expert at keeping everyone around him off-balance. This was one way he kept control.
Just when you thought he was going to turn left, he'd turn right. Then he'd give a deep supposed spiritual reason why and berate and belittle others for not having "seen" it.
This kept those under him questioning themselves and their assessment of what was really going on. Just when they thought they were growing spiritually and had a grasp of the spiritual side of life VPW would tell them they were wrong.Then when those under VPW suspected something wasn't right they would correct themselves because they didn't want to become the next example held up in front of the rest as someone who was spiritually dull or worse.
Eventually everyone celebrated VPW's unpredictable nature touting how spiritual he was since it seemed to defy the senses information. That's how you build a nice little cult.
And regarding "possessed" people, most of TWI leadership's way of dealing with them is to kick them out of fellowship, not minister to them like Jesus Christ did. In fact the people doing the kicking out probably had some "spiritual problems" of their own.
VPW was an expert at keeping everyone around him off-balance. This was one way he kept control.
Just when you thought he was going to turn left, he'd turn right. Then he'd give a deep supposed spiritual reason why and berate and belittle others for not having "seen" it.
This kept those under him questioning themselves and their assessment of what was really going on. Just when they thought they were growing spiritually and had a grasp of the spiritual side of life VPW would tell them they were wrong.Then when those under VPW suspected something wasn't right they would correct themselves because they didn't want to become the next example held up in front of the rest as someone who was spiritually dull or worse.
Eventually everyone celebrated VPW's unpredictable nature touting how spiritual he was since it seemed to defy the senses information. That's how you build a nice little cult.
Wierwille was a master manipulator.
As a child, even his own family KNEW that he hid in the woods to avoid work.
Already, we was testing the boundaries of his father's patience and goodwill.....and seeing
how much work he could sidestep without punishment. He was manipulating the situation.
Wierwille was a showman. In studying homiletics, he did his best to alter outcome by "listen to me."
Words and fair speeches was vpee's playground. He loved the spotlight, but not the accountability.
EVERYTHING about twi......its class-structure, headquarters, targeting the youth, buzz-words,
skewing family values and holiday traditions, isolation of corps program, keeping WOWs separate
from Limb activity, etc. was to build a following dependent on direction/management.
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skyrider
Take, for instance......The Renewed Mind class.
In twi's presentation.....in listing the "four fronts of the enemy"
one of the devil's fronts is YOU.
See, twi cherry-picks a few verses and them injects private interpretation
to pervert their meaning....to subjugate individuality and insert authoritarian control.
See, twi knows best. Not you. Not your stinking upbringing. Not your conscience.
Doesn't the Book of Proverbs detail right from wrong?
And.....show the path of righteousness to those with an upright conscience?
And.....show how the wicked are led toward destruction?
And.....show how the godly man is like a tree planted by the rivers of water?
Just seemed like every "advanced studies class" provided by twi took us further
into a groupthink, let-them-tell-you-what-to-do mindset.
.
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waysider
....having sex is hardly any different than sticking your finger in someone's ear.
Fortunately, I never had to chose between the two.
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GrouchoMarxJr
I've often thought about telling the current "leadership" of twi to stick it in their ear.
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skyrider
1) stringing chairs
2) mowing grass
3) clearing wood and brush
4) sweeping and buffing floors
5) upholstering chairs
6) food prep and kitchen detail
7) cleaning toilets and driving honey wagons
8) drywall prep and chinking corps chalet
9) hitchhike and climb rocks
10) etc, etc, etc,
Where was the demonstration of God's power?
Where was the manifestations in operation?
Where did any twi leader miraculously heal the sick, raise the dead,
or cast out any devil spirits?
Talk, talk, talk.....blah, blah, blah.
On and on and on and on.
Yet, they wanted to clone the masses to their beady-eyed corner of spiritualizing everything?
I was around wierwille SEVERAL TIMES when his outbursts fumed of someone 'possessed'.....YET
HE NEVER CAST OUT ONE SPIRIT. NOT ONE IN ALL THOSE YEARS.
Smoke, smoke, smoke.....drink, drink, drink.....talk, talk, talk.
Not one time did I ever witness ANYTHING OF WIERWILLE in the spiritual realm.
The work program of corps training was, supposedly, to teach attention to detail and greater spiritual awareness. The wierwille-shtick went something like this....."If you can't observe and maintain details in the physical realm, then you will simply be unqualified when it comes to the spiritual realm." So, the corps-shlub plods along on the "learning curve" doing all the grunt work that twi mandates.
Ten years later......the corps grad is STILL showing up for corps week/rock of ages and cleaning the porta-potties. While the elite-spiritual heads teach from the main stage and soak in the unbridled adulation.
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Steve Lortz
I think one of the lies that enabled Wierwille to pull this off was the teaching from the foundational class that there are two realms, the senses realm and the spiritual realm, and that the laws of the spiritual realm supercede the laws of the senses realm. If you learn to manipulate the laws of the spirit realm, you can control what happens in the senses realm. I know that's one of the things that stuck out for me when I took the foundational class.
The advanced class was supposed to teach us how to operate the laws of the spirit realm, but it didn't, because there IS NO SUCH THING AS A SPIRIT REALM, and the Bible nowhere teaches that there is.
If we study the word aisthesis and it's cognates, translated "perceive," "judgment" and "senses" we find that the Bible exhorts us to exercise COMMON SENSE.
Wierwille taught us to ignore our common sense about what he was doing to us, and to strive to "acquire an in depth spiritual awareness and perception" that doesn't exist.
Love,
Steve
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waysider
The primary objective of The Way Corps, FellowLaborers and now S.O.W.E.R.S is this:
1. Acquire an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness.
What sort of success rate can a venture expect when it's #1 goal is to capture a unicorn?
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excathedra
WHO paid good money for this training?
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GeorgeStGeorge
We Spiritual Partners, that's who! :lol:
George
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skyrider
Not necessarily....
Having money in the bank from my child/teenage farm work, I didn't believe
it was right to solicit others to pay for my corps tuition. A few from
my WOW years sent checks for my tuition, but I paid roughly 90% of it.
My "spiritual partners" were my prayer partners.....and those who liked
to hear about what I was learning in the corps.
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Twinky
And even later than that, it became "Acquire an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness of the Word."
Kinda, when they realised that common sense had totally vacated TWI thinking, they changed their definitions ... again.
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GeorgeStGeorge
Every case was different, of course, but I suspect that you were more the exception than the rule. :)
George
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Yanagisawa
Voodoo
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excathedra
love that yana
and love you steve
very enlightening and refreshing after all these yyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrssssssssss
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excathedra
ohmygosh i'm not kidding
when wierwille was at the college girl way home standing NAKED when i went by, my "leader" KL said he was so spiritual (like above the senses) that the flesh didn't matter -- he wasn't a pervert
and THEN when limb leader came to visit and she told me to lie down with him (in a bed at night time) -- not sure if i lived there by then or was visiting -- just to "comfort" him -- spiritually -- nothing to do with the flesh or senses -- yes he was married -- i was not. i laid there for a few minutes and then he was feeling me up and i got the "f" out of there
but there's so much more
and i did finally buy into some of it i guess even though i became a sick nervous wreck -- like i wasn't already -- hearing the same thing from people before i got in the way -- p eople who were totally "senses realm" lol
oh man
ps. MOST people in the way corps program got their money from sponsors
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excathedra
steve have you elaborated anywhere (and can direct me) to "spiritual realm" and "common sense"
love,e
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T-Bone
The Way Corps’ success rate was abysmal. Their pronouncements of the spiritual status of a situation were totally self-serving. I remember some folks complaining about the unethical business practices of our branch leader. His response: teachings on how murmuring was sinful and that devil spirits are turning people against him.
Jump forward to being in the Family Corps – the Passing of the Patriarch is read while the wife and I are in residence; we’re not real sure what’s being done to straighten things out – but we’re often reminded that we’re really under fire from devil spirits now…. yeah, no $hi+ Sherlock and for some reason they look a lot like TWI’s top leadership!
I think this was the beginning of a major doubt growing in my mind “if this ministry has more of the rightly divided word than anyone else then why is there all this fighting and confusion?” And then there’s all the tough-talk from our corps as to how to persevere in this spiritual fight once we leave Rome City “yup, we’re gonna run PFAL back to back.” Oh yeah, I forgot about the magic bullet for every spiritual problem.
Then we’re on assignment out in the field. Away from the entanglements of corps residence, my mind seems to be festering with more questions and doubts. I buy a few commentaries at an estate sale down the block from our home. Check out some books on theology at the library, look into vp’s credentials and start dialoging with other corps in my state who have some issues with TWI too.
I start sharing some of my concerns with our corps via letters. The feedback we get implies we are deceived by devil spirits. And I mean it’s unanimous.
So to re-phrase my opening statement for those who dive deep into the spirituality of the spirited bull$hi+Uality: The Way Corps is to an in-depth spiritual perception and awareness what Walter White is to methamphetamine. They both made money by peddling their $hi+ to suckers. But from what I’ve read though it seems methamphetamine in low doses will actually increase alertness, concentration and energy.
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skyrider
Twi's corps program was an absolute devil-spirits-everywhere-cluster-fest.
HAS ANYONE NOTICED......that every corps coordinator [except moneyhands]
has headed for the hills, far away from twi !!!!
Yet...the doctrines of devils remains. Suspicion, manipulation, abuse, seduction,
exploitation, isolation, containment, slander, demagogue, etc.
In spiritualizing EVERYTHING, twi has mocked the essence of "walking by the spirit."
If mowing grass is spiritual, lining chairs is spiritual, etc......how come leaders
never seemed to discern any "possessed" people and CAST OUT DEVIL SPIRITS? Heck,
these were the leaders who, supposedly, walked with all-nine-all-the-time and yet
everyone of them got bamboozled by wierwille and the poop-master, geer.
Yeah....corps coordinators scattered to the four winds.
Teaching sound doctrine in the corps program? Ppppppffffftt.
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waysider
If mowing grass, cleaning toilets and scrubbing floors could really build spiritual acumen, the leaders should have been falling over each other for opportunities to grow. Instead, what we witnessed was a glowing example of what a toxic, hostile workplace should look like. They were nothing more than a bunch of bullies, despite their ability to smile and say, "God bless, you're the best.".
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skyrider
Wierwille claimed to teach da verd......but really, it was nothing more
than "enticing words of man's wisdom" wrapped with scriptural bows.
Where was the DEMONSTRATION OF GOD'S POWER?
Heck, wierwille became so spiritually bankrupt of soul that he wouldn't
be seen publically ministering healing to anyone. He stood on stage
and directed the advanced class grads to minister.
In all my years on staff and in-residence, I NEVER SAW wierwille,
cummins, geer, martindale, lynn, etc. DO what I'd describe as
an unequivocal spiritual display of the power of God.
.
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PatAnswer
VPW was an expert at keeping everyone around him off-balance. This was one way he kept control.
Just when you thought he was going to turn left, he'd turn right. Then he'd give a deep supposed spiritual reason why and berate and belittle others for not having "seen" it.
This kept those under him questioning themselves and their assessment of what was really going on. Just when they thought they were growing spiritually and had a grasp of the spiritual side of life VPW would tell them they were wrong.Then when those under VPW suspected something wasn't right they would correct themselves because they didn't want to become the next example held up in front of the rest as someone who was spiritually dull or worse.
Eventually everyone celebrated VPW's unpredictable nature touting how spiritual he was since it seemed to defy the senses information. That's how you build a nice little cult.
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outandabout
And regarding "possessed" people, most of TWI leadership's way of dealing with them is to kick them out of fellowship, not minister to them like Jesus Christ did. In fact the people doing the kicking out probably had some "spiritual problems" of their own.
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skyrider
Wierwille was a master manipulator.
As a child, even his own family KNEW that he hid in the woods to avoid work.
Already, we was testing the boundaries of his father's patience and goodwill.....and seeing
how much work he could sidestep without punishment. He was manipulating the situation.
Wierwille was a showman. In studying homiletics, he did his best to alter outcome by "listen to me."
Words and fair speeches was vpee's playground. He loved the spotlight, but not the accountability.
EVERYTHING about twi......its class-structure, headquarters, targeting the youth, buzz-words,
skewing family values and holiday traditions, isolation of corps program, keeping WOWs separate
from Limb activity, etc. was to build a following dependent on direction/management.
Incremental Indoctrination 101
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Bolshevik
Weirwille was a master?
Not simply surrounded by easily suggestable, naieve youth?
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WordWolf
It took work to surround himself with easily-suggestible, naive youth!
An expert/master manipulator "primes the pump" by pre-selecting his audience
and aiming for the most gullible, the most suggestible. vpw spent long
years looking for them. As soon as he read about the House of Acts Christians
in Haight-Ashbury, he ran over there to con them into thinking that himself
was some great one and getting them to all give heed to him.
So, he prepped "the full act" for years. When he was able to hunt up the
"right" audience, he let them have his manipulation act, and many well-meaning
Christians fell for it, and worked for him, thinking they were working for God.
It's also how they ended up believing some odd doctrines he peddled, thinking
they were from God rather than a con-man.
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