Jump to content
GreaseSpot Cafe
  • Announcements

    • GT

      Log in changes   08/07/2016

      With the upgrade there is no longer separate login ids and display names.  Your login ID is now your display name.
Sign in to follow this  
Raf

Super Hero TV

Recommended Posts

Raf    228

Original first post on this thread:

Is anyone else watching this show (The Flash)? Tuesday's episode knocked it out of the park! I've no one to discuss it with.

This thread was merged on 11/4/2015 with a new thread posted by George St. George. Here is the first post of that thread (still in place as post #92 on this thread)

Although we have a Flash thread, I thought I'd start one to cover comments on all of the super-hero shows, since there are so many of them, now.

I would include: Arrow, The Flash, Gotham, Supergirl, Marvel's Agents of SHIELD. If the Daredevil Netflix show is still running, that would be fine, too. (I haven't seen it.) If I'm forgetting any, feel free to add. I would not include super-hero-ish shows like Limitless. I'm also thinking of this thread for commentary on current shows, so none of the various Superman shows, etc., would be included.

There are only a handful of us in this forum, so feel free to "change the rules," if you think it will draw more interest.

George

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WordWolf    376

While Mrs Wolf and I have watched "Arrow" and "Flash" consistently,

we haven't seen the last episode of either.

(They haven't aired here yet.)

We can discuss the series as a whole, but before Tuesday, we should

be all caught up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it should go without saying that I watch the Flash, Arrow, Gotham, and Agents of Shield. I also watched Constantine. Though not a big fan of the character, I think that Matt Ryan was an excellent choice to portray him. It's doubtful that Constantine will return, though.

Back to the Flash. I don't know that the last episode was better than the others; I've liked them all. I especially enjoyed seeing the stars of "Prison Break," Wentworth Miller and Dominic Purcell, reunited as Captain Cold and Heat Wave. It will be interesting to see how the next episode plays out. I suspect that a lot of the events of this one will be overturned. I'll pass on saying any more, to avoid spoiling it for WW.

George

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Raf    228

Wolf, how far behind are you? Exactly one week?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WordWolf    376

Wolf, how far behind are you? Exactly one week?

We saw "Fallout." We have not seen "Out Of Time."

And thank you for holding spoilers. I'll post a notice as soon as we see the last

episode.

(We watch Agents of SHIELD, Flash, and Arrow. We haven't seen "this week's"

episode of any of them. Small surprise, since none of them have aired

here yet. I have seen all the Gotham episodes, but she's lost interest in

the series and just asks me for recaps and for the scenes with Edward.

And what's "this week's episode" depends on the local airing cycle.

All the shows I mentioned air 1-3 weeks later here than where you are,

mostly so the subtitles can be added. The same with Big Bang Theory and

Elementary, which we follow and used to follow, respectively.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Raf    228

Here's the only "spoiler" I'll give you. "Out of Time" may well have been the best single hour of superhero television I have ever seen. Excellent, excellent writing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WordWolf    376

Here's the only "spoiler" I'll give you. "Out of Time" may well have been the best single hour of superhero television I have ever seen. Excellent, excellent writing.

We just saw it. We both disagree. We were a little disappointed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WordWolf    376

I think it should go without saying that I watch the Flash, Arrow, Gotham, and Agents of Shield. I also watched Constantine. Though not a big fan of the character, I think that Matt Ryan was an excellent choice to portray him. It's doubtful that Constantine will return, though.

Back to the Flash. I don't know that the last episode was better than the others; I've liked them all. I especially enjoyed seeing the stars of "Prison Break," Wentworth Miller and Dominic Purcell, reunited as Captain Cold and Heat Wave. It will be interesting to see how the next episode plays out. I suspect that a lot of the events of this one will be overturned. I'll pass on saying any more, to avoid spoiling it for WW.

George

At the end of the episode, Mrs Wolf gave her breakdown of the ending,

and predicted that everything from the event about 6:30 into the episode

(when the clock struck 10pm) to the end will be retconned.

I agree with her, with only some disagreement as to whether the Chief

will be saved. (She says he will, I say he won't.)

Care to discuss the series as a whole, individual episodes, ruminations?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the DC universe, Cisco Ramon is "Vibe," so I doubt he'll really be killed off. It's interesting that in the "old days" (late Silver Age), Reverse Flash (Eobard Thawne) killed Barry Allen's wife, Iris (West), by vibrating his hand inside her brain. I guess that when they did the show, they thought that that might be a little grosser than having him do it inside Cisco's chest. (PS: Barry was able to prevent the murder of his wife by going back in time and breaking Thawne's neck. I doubt we'll see THAT here, either.)

George

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WordWolf    376

In the DC universe, Cisco Ramon is "Vibe," so I doubt he'll really be killed off. It's interesting that in the "old days" (late Silver Age), Reverse Flash (Eobard Thawne) killed Barry Allen's wife, Iris (West), by vibrating his hand inside her brain. I guess that when they did the show, they thought that that might be a little grosser than having him do it inside Cisco's chest. (PS: Barry was able to prevent the murder of his wife by going back in time and breaking Thawne's neck. I doubt we'll see THAT here, either.)

George

Simon Stagg and General Eiling both were killed off, so who can tell who's slated to die?

Don't forget about Reverb/Hardline. If they kill Cisco, his brother's still alive,

and we know almost nothing about him.

I'm sure the consensus is that the chest-kill is a lot less gross than the brain-kill.

(I'm in wholehearted agreement on that and am glad they didn't use the other.)

We've also read Wally West/Flash stopping Thawne by threatening to go strangle Eobard

in his cradle- and trick Eobard into fleeing the present and trying to chase Wally

through time.

We've already got some ideas as to what happened with Eobard. I've done the most

speculating. My track record with "Agents of SHIELD" has gotten pretty good,

so I'm a lot more confident about my theories of Flash-canon for TV.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Raf    228

Disappointed you did like the episode as much as I did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WordWolf    376

Disappointed you did like the episode as much as I did.

We didn't like how the subplots all suddenly piled up-

and how we expect most or all to be hand-waved away in the next episode.

What did you like so much that sliced bread has to move over?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Raf    228

The reveal on Wells. The real jeopardy that West was in. The retcon without cheating.

On Barry and Iris, Barry is going to remember what she told him, but she's not. That relationship suddenly became a lot more interesting.

And how did I not see H. Wells as a time traveler?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WordWolf    376

The reveal on Wells. The real jeopardy that West was in. The retcon without cheating.

I get suspicious of retcons because they are often cheats, and often bad ones.

The reveal on Wells was a surprise in very few ways, for us.

A) His legal name-I had dismissed the idea months ago and forgotten about it.

B) Who he tried to kill

C) the mirage thing, which I think is a cheap trick for the writers based

on how they used it earlier in the series.

On Barry and Iris, Barry is going to remember what she told him, but she's not. That relationship suddenly became a lot more interesting.

That's interesting, but we didn't think it was noteworthy-ish.

And how did I not see H. Wells as a time traveler?

Ok, I knew the character was one from the first episode.

We did NOT see the name connection, and Mrs Wolf's chagrined she missed it.

She also said she considered the "reveal then retcon" technique to be

lazy writing. "We want to tell the public some things, so we'll have

everyone learn, then everyone forgets." She thinks that was a cop-out

on revealing secrets to the viewing audience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Raf    228

don't think its cheating unless they fail to establish the mechanism beforehand. In this case time travel was teased all season long. In addition that was the mystery of the flash at the beginning of the episode.. That was laying groundwork.Not lazy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WordWolf    376

don't think its cheating unless they fail to establish the mechanism beforehand. In this case time travel was teased all season long. In addition that was the mystery of the flash at the beginning of the episode.. That was laying groundwork.Not lazy

I think the "he was a mirage in the other episode" thing was cheating.

(The other episode should have looked MUCH different.)

She thinks the "we told the audience and now we're retconning almost

all the episode so now the audience knows but not the character" thing

was cheating. (Lazy writing, a little like a deus ex machina, in a way.)

We knew there were 2 time travelers in the beginning.

Actually, Mrs Wolf worked it out in the beginning with me keeping silent

except for answering very specific questions. I consider time travel not

to be an issue, providing we complete the loop.

I think you thought I was saying the reveal on Wells was a retcon. No,

we knew he was from the future. We weren't sure if he was the present

Wells who had traveled in time more than once and was faking being his

younger self, or someone imitating his ancestor after planning it and

altering his appearance, then traveling back. (In the comic, Eobard

Thawne, actually, DID alter his appearance and acquire powers deliberately

before his first time trip. I won't post why in case, somehow, that's

the reason he did it in the show.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know when WW will see the current episode, but its resolution of last week's crises is even less satisfying than I had expected.

On the other hand, Trickster, next week!

George

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WordWolf    376

There was another episode? Give us at least 24 hours.

Apparently Agents of SHIELD aired one, also, so that's something else

to add to my dance card after the Flash episode.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In this part of the world, Flash airs on Tuesday night (7 PM Central). SHIELD also on Tuesday. Arrow on Wednesday. Gotham on Monday.

George

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WordWolf    376

Ok, we saw it. I don't know if Raf did.

I was a little disappointed about the episode's method of handling time travel.

It's inconsistent with what we already know from the series.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Raf    228

Some of it was handled ok, but in general, yeah, a letdown from the previous high

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not the time travel that bothered me. It's Captain Cold (and probably Heat Wave and Golden Glider) knowing Flash's identity, and the bizarre bargain that Barry made with him. If I understand correctly, it's basically "I won't toss you in jail while you rob stuff, as long as you don't kill anyone or bother my friends." There are a number of instances in the DC universe where a villain knows a hero's identity but doesn't reveal it (Ra's al Ghul/Batman comes to mind immediately); but the rationales never made sense to me. The only part I COULD see is the "If you're so great, you don't need to kill" appeal to CC's ego. (And, incidentally, Flash's Rogues DO have a no-killing code, in the comics.) I don't see this version of Heat Wave agreeing to that, though perhaps CC can keep him (and GG) in line.

George

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WordWolf    376

Mrs Wolf and I both agree Cold didn't tell Mick nor Lisa.

(BTW, the Mrs stopped me when Cisco was getting hit on in the bar,

and asked me if that was Snart's sister.

I stopped, noted the same name and correct hair color,

and we both figured this was the bad guys making a run on Cisco,

or at least Lisa making a run on Cisco.

The wig, BTW, makes sense since, in the comics, a brother and

sister have radically different hair colors. In this case,

that was due to a style decision and a wig.

As for Flash's deal with Len Snart, we didn't like it either.

The only time I liked such a deal was the excellent Epilogue

to the awful "Hush" storyline. Riddler was in jail, and Batman

visited him. Riddler had used a Lazarus Pit, and the bout of

insanity allowed him to figure out Bruce was Batman. So, when

Riddler threatened to tell others, Batman replied with

"What time is it when an elephant sits on a fence?"

Riddler said EVERYONE knew that one. Batman noted that the

Riddler finds riddles worthless when everyone knows the answer.

And, Batman was ready to let the League of Assassins know who

partially used up one of their Lazarus Pits if Riddler talked.

Since then, Riddler's lost that information.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to derail this thread, but I really don't think we need an "Arrow" thread...

Since when is the Atom just Iron Man? (I don't mind that this version of Ray Palmer is (yet another) genius billionaire instead of a brilliant college physics professor.) I hope he loses most of the tech/armor and works in shrinking.

George

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×