I was just told by a current/lifetime Wayster that the Way NEVER asks for money from its followers.
That's the most bizarre (and funny) thing I've heard in a long time.
Here's how it worked when i was "in".
You gave a REQUIRED "donation" to take the PFAL class. That was just the beginning. There were more classes set up the same way. Lots of them. They made money on those classes but it was a short term deal.
You had to "abundantly share" (over and above the typical 10% tithe that most churches hope for) to stay in good standing. Remaining in good standing was ABSOLUTELY required to be accepted into any advanced classes or training programs. In addition, it was taught that if you didn't give at least a 10% tithe, you would be out of fellowship with God. Martindale even once said that, for anything less than 20%, God wouldn't bother to even "spit in your direction" (sic). I suppose you could say they never literally "asked". It was an UNDERSTOOD requirement.
My personal feeling is that the PFAL class was, among other things, simply a way to get people to commit themselves to giving a large percentage of their income to the organization, pay after pay, month after month, and year after year. But, hey, nobody is using the word "ask" so that changes everything. Gimme a break!
That's the most bizarre (and funny) thing I've heard in a long time.
Here's how it worked when i was "in".
You gave a REQUIRED "donation" to take the PFAL class. That was just the beginning. There were more classes set up the same way. Lots of them. They made money on those classes but it was a short term deal.
You had to "abundantly share" (over and above the typical 10% tithe that most churches hope for) to stay in good standing. Remaining in good standing was ABSOLUTELY required to be accepted into any advanced classes or training programs. In addition, it was taught that if you didn't give at least a 10% tithe, you would be out of fellowship with God. Martindale even once said that, for anything less than 20%, God wouldn't bother to even "spit in your direction" (sic). I suppose you could say they never literally "asked". It was an UNDERSTOOD requirement.
My personal feeling is that the PFAL class was, among other things, simply a way to get people to commit themselves to giving a large percentage of their income to the organization, pay after pay, month after month, and year after year. But, hey, nobody is using the word "ask" so that changes everything. Gimme a break!
Maybe they have so much money now they don't have to ask anymore.
Yup, you're right. According to a recent 990-T tax return (on the web), they had about $65,000,000 (that's million) in assets at the end of '14. They had no business income (sales, etc.)??? But took a $1,000 deduction even though they had $0 for Charitable contributions.
More semantics: Should. Your abundant share "should" be at least equal to what the govenment takes outa your gross pay or it "should" be at least 15%, which ever is greater. That's the dogma we were told to follow and teach for years back in the 70's.
The only asking I can recall on the WOW field were WOW families asking their landlords for an extension on the late rent. Do the math of a typical WOW family of working at near or slightly above minimum wage at 30 hours a week (our mandated work limit back then)and gave 15% to twi HQ. Rarely did any WOW family have all members working at the same time.
A vow of poverty - Oh, now I know why they taught us the ingredients of familia and only to use water on it and never milk (I cheated).
Yup, you're right. According to a recent 990-T tax return (on the web), they had about $65,000,000 (that's million) in assets at the end of '14. They had no business income (sales, etc.)??? But took a $1,000 deduction even though they had $0 for Charitable contributions.
Yup, you're right. According to a recent 990-T tax return (on the web), they had about $65,000,000 (that's million) in assets at the end of '14. They had no business income (sales, etc.)??? But took a $1,000 deduction even though they had $0 for Charitable contributions.
I think the Word states a return on your giving, if not in "this" life, then later; I prefer the later option. Just give and forget about twi, they are mostly greedy for themselves at the top while the miniuns who work in the trenches only keep sending them $. What a great statement about Christianity. We have been screwed over by twi in so many ways, taking our money, our youth or family values.
I think the Word states a return on your giving, if not in "this" life, then later; I prefer the later option. Just give and forget about twi, they are mostly greedy for themselves at the top while the miniuns who work in the trenches only keep sending them $. What a great statement about Christianity. We have been screwed over by twi in so many ways, taking our money, our youth or family values.
And then there's the verses in II Corinthians about a cheerful giver.
Hard to be cheerful when you understand the organization to be as your comment described.
However, it IS available to be a cheerful giver when one has an abundance of money and is thoughtful (conscious) about finding places to give where you can
feel confident that good works will be accomplished with what you donate.
I really never saw that to be the case with twi.
A full 40 years ago, while stationed overseas in the US military, I had actually started to save some money for when I finished my active duty. But, because
a fool and his money were soon parted, twi had my savings before I became a civilian. It wasn't difficult to talk a 20-year old airman out of money on the basis of
"it will help move the word over the world." A noble goal. But this (then) twenty-year old didn't have much understanding of the ways of the world and lecherous
Yup, you're right. According to a recent 990-T tax return (on the web), they had about $65,000,000 (that's million) in assets at the end of '14. They had no business income (sales, etc.)??? But took a $1,000 deduction even though they had $0 for Charitable contributions.
The 990-T form they filed is NOT their Tax Return for the entire operation. The form is used to report income from UNRELATED business to the 501( c )3 corporation. The IRS allows a specific deduction of $1,000 unless it results in a loss on the unrelated business income. The software used by the preparer would insert the deduction automatically.
I feel sure that twi operates under the assumption that all activities are related to the corporation. Therefore, book sales, merchandise, classes etc. are all part of their normal operations. Those are not shown on this form.
In context of being a cheerful giver and of being conscious (thoughtful) of where you give money, you might be interested in the following two websites that attempt to evaluate charities for their impact and their best use of donated moneys. Notably some of the bigger/more famous charities don't make it to the "best value" places.
It does not mean, of course, that your pet charity/ies isn't "good value" or doesn't carefully manage donations. You may prefer to donate to charities of which you have your own knowledge and involvement with. It's your hard-earned money; make it work hard for someone else when they spend it; don't let it line the pocket of a rich CEO. One of the following has a page on "tips" to consider, questions to ask, when it comes to giving, particularly of large donations.
I was just told by a current/lifetime Wayster that the Way NEVER asks for money from its followers.
Because they teach tithe/ABS consistently, ensure it's on the teaching calendar, track the donations of each individual member both at the twig level and at HQ overstepping boundaries in people's lives, and take action against people according to their perceived level of giving. And yes they still do this, in spite of trying to convince people they are a leopard that has changed its spots. Why else would they gently encourage people not to throw cash in the horn, but a check?
But no, they don't ASK people for money.
It's just part of the unspoken hidden agenda of a CULT to hide that part of how they behave and their culture, and to lure people in with good words and fair speeches.
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waysider
That's the most bizarre (and funny) thing I've heard in a long time.
Here's how it worked when i was "in".
You gave a REQUIRED "donation" to take the PFAL class. That was just the beginning. There were more classes set up the same way. Lots of them. They made money on those classes but it was a short term deal.
You had to "abundantly share" (over and above the typical 10% tithe that most churches hope for) to stay in good standing. Remaining in good standing was ABSOLUTELY required to be accepted into any advanced classes or training programs. In addition, it was taught that if you didn't give at least a 10% tithe, you would be out of fellowship with God. Martindale even once said that, for anything less than 20%, God wouldn't bother to even "spit in your direction" (sic). I suppose you could say they never literally "asked". It was an UNDERSTOOD requirement.
My personal feeling is that the PFAL class was, among other things, simply a way to get people to commit themselves to giving a large percentage of their income to the organization, pay after pay, month after month, and year after year. But, hey, nobody is using the word "ask" so that changes everything. Gimme a break!
Amirite?
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citygirl99
So why do they lie?
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waysider
Well, I never actually said "They lie".
Hahahahahahahahaha!
Ain't semantics wonderful!
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outandabout
Maybe they have so much money now they don't have to ask anymore.
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GeorgeStGeorge
I think the key word is "ask."
"Demand," "require," "mandate," etc. -- YES
"Ask" -- NO.
George
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citygirl99
Yup, you're right. According to a recent 990-T tax return (on the web), they had about $65,000,000 (that's million) in assets at the end of '14. They had no business income (sales, etc.)??? But took a $1,000 deduction even though they had $0 for Charitable contributions.
http://pdfs.citizenaudit.org/2015_01_T/34-4440110_990T_201408.pdf
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MRAP
More semantics: Should. Your abundant share "should" be at least equal to what the govenment takes outa your gross pay or it "should" be at least 15%, which ever is greater. That's the dogma we were told to follow and teach for years back in the 70's.
The only asking I can recall on the WOW field were WOW families asking their landlords for an extension on the late rent. Do the math of a typical WOW family of working at near or slightly above minimum wage at 30 hours a week (our mandated work limit back then)and gave 15% to twi HQ. Rarely did any WOW family have all members working at the same time.
A vow of poverty - Oh, now I know why they taught us the ingredients of familia and only to use water on it and never milk (I cheated).
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Rocky
Would love to see a balance sheet and cash flow statement. Oh, and an explanation of the $1,000.00 deduction.
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WordWolf
So,
they're claiming ZERO sales of books, tapes, etc
for that fiscal year?
I'm sure the IRS would disagree if there was an audit.
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WordWolf
Well,
they DEMAND it, so it's technically not "asked".
twi has mandatory tithing of at least 10% (which has been as high as 20%
and is probably 15% right now.
twi invented the term "abundant share" for money given above their
MANDATORY TITHE.
That's unique-most groups don't demand donations at that point nor
expect them.
twi invented the term "plurality giving." That's a unique CONCEPT
among supposed "Christian" groups.
Take all the money you made. Subtract all money for bills and expenses,
food and other things you HAVE to buy or pay for.
Anything left, no matter how big or small,
ALL OF IT GOES TO TWI.
No savings, no investments, no nothing.
twi gets it all.
So, anyone who thinks twi doesn't pry money out of the hands of
their drones is seriously deluded.
If your payments are not up-to-date, you're considered
second class at best and are not allowed full participation
at events where you must cover all expenses.
twi is the most money-grubbing group with which I'm personally
familiar.
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skyrider
.....with Jean Yves DeLisle's signature.
Rosalie....you are so clever to stay out of sight.
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MRAP
I think the Word states a return on your giving, if not in "this" life, then later; I prefer the later option. Just give and forget about twi, they are mostly greedy for themselves at the top while the miniuns who work in the trenches only keep sending them $. What a great statement about Christianity. We have been screwed over by twi in so many ways, taking our money, our youth or family values.
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Rocky
And then there's the verses in II Corinthians about a cheerful giver.
Hard to be cheerful when you understand the organization to be as your comment described.
However, it IS available to be a cheerful giver when one has an abundance of money and is thoughtful (conscious) about finding places to give where you can
feel confident that good works will be accomplished with what you donate.
I really never saw that to be the case with twi.
A full 40 years ago, while stationed overseas in the US military, I had actually started to save some money for when I finished my active duty. But, because
a fool and his money were soon parted, twi had my savings before I became a civilian. It wasn't difficult to talk a 20-year old airman out of money on the basis of
"it will help move the word over the world." A noble goal. But this (then) twenty-year old didn't have much understanding of the ways of the world and lecherous
cult leaders in 1975.
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Kevin Fallon
The 990-T form they filed is NOT their Tax Return for the entire operation. The form is used to report income from UNRELATED business to the 501( c )3 corporation. The IRS allows a specific deduction of $1,000 unless it results in a loss on the unrelated business income. The software used by the preparer would insert the deduction automatically.
I feel sure that twi operates under the assumption that all activities are related to the corporation. Therefore, book sales, merchandise, classes etc. are all part of their normal operations. Those are not shown on this form.
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Twinky
:offtopic:/>
In context of being a cheerful giver and of being conscious (thoughtful) of where you give money, you might be interested in the following two websites that attempt to evaluate charities for their impact and their best use of donated moneys. Notably some of the bigger/more famous charities don't make it to the "best value" places.
It does not mean, of course, that your pet charity/ies isn't "good value" or doesn't carefully manage donations. You may prefer to donate to charities of which you have your own knowledge and involvement with. It's your hard-earned money; make it work hard for someone else when they spend it; don't let it line the pocket of a rich CEO. One of the following has a page on "tips" to consider, questions to ask, when it comes to giving, particularly of large donations.
GiveWell
Giving What We Can
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MRAP
So, all that $ we gave to nefarious causes (twi). Well I trust GOD that he knew our hearts and that goes towards our accounts.
Now, I/we know better and choose who we donate to.
Bottom line: just give and don't try to figure out the %.
Rocky is right on in my thinking with the verse, be cheerfull about it. If you ain't, then don't and find a place and amount that makes you cheerfull.
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chockfull
Because they teach tithe/ABS consistently, ensure it's on the teaching calendar, track the donations of each individual member both at the twig level and at HQ overstepping boundaries in people's lives, and take action against people according to their perceived level of giving. And yes they still do this, in spite of trying to convince people they are a leopard that has changed its spots. Why else would they gently encourage people not to throw cash in the horn, but a check?
But no, they don't ASK people for money.
It's just part of the unspoken hidden agenda of a CULT to hide that part of how they behave and their culture, and to lure people in with good words and fair speeches.
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