The bully-mog wierwille escalated the confrontation to a level that few twi-followers ever saw.
It was so over-the-top that, I think, most corps refuted to process what just took place before
their eyes.....and shelved it to the further recesses of their brain cells. To actually dwell
upon the content required a critical thinking process that few wanted to engage in.
Wierwille knew how to manipulate and bully. The independent free-thinkers, and researchers,
and outspoken rabble-rousers were targets....because they posed a threat to lockstep loyalty
and cultdom. The strong, and independent, and successful......split.
What's left at twi's hq? The subservient. The lapdogs. The weak and fearful.
Those department coordinators who've been there for 30 years hardly have a thought
that they could call their own. They are pawns to rosalie's rules and regs.
Some outstanding comments.
I saw this happen to me in a post-twi workplace situation I was in... I was, in that situation, involved in labor organizing. The source material provided by Waysider is poignant and brings back vivid memories to me.
Just remember folks, I'm screaming at you and calling you names, because I love you.
Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine,
for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That would have been a great thing to do if you'd checked with me first. No condemnation, but you should be ashamed.
Where no counsel is, the people fall: but in the
multitude of counselors there is safety.
There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus
oh, that may seem like a good idea in light of all this new information, but stay the course.
Carefully consider the path for your feet, and all your ways will be established
Child abuse pure and simple. Brainwashed parents. Extreme fear of not reporting back. I never let other adults spank my kids. Thats my job. I kept that shiz out of my areas of influence but I saw it and was powerless to stop it.
Child abuse pure and simple. Brainwashed parents. Extreme fear of not reporting back. I never let other adults spank my kids. Thats my job. I kept that shiz out of my areas of influence but I saw it and was powerless to stop it.
Still probably my rationalization.
Not really referring to child abuse alone . . . but how it's likely a symptom of something else. I've seen those phrases, or similar enough ones, used on adults and kids alike. These things were often done in front of audiences.
Ham, Waysider, et.al.: We were the folks with the guts to stop it but we did not - it was folks like us who did not find the guts to stand up and change things so we should not be talking about being bullied. We failed: Period.
We had the opportunity to take control of a situation that we "knew" was going bad and did not stand on our convicions.
I am ashamed. There are plenty of rationalizations/excuses but that does not make it.
If we had done our job then there would not even be a reason for the GSC.
Ham, Waysider, et.al.: We were the folks with the guts to stop it but we did not - it was folks like us who did not find the guts to stand up and change things so we should not be talking about being bullied. We failed: Period.
We had the opportunity to take control of a situation that we "knew" was going bad and did not stand on our convicions.
I am ashamed. There are plenty of rationalizations/excuses but that does not make it.
If we had done our job then there would not even be a reason for the GSC.
I have to disagree with you. From the early 1970s (when I first became involved with twi), there WERE people who attempted to stand up to VPee. They were heavily attacked. They left the organization.
Those who remained, in my estimation, did not realize just how messed up the entire subculture was. It took me until 1986 and obtaining a bachelor's degree in accounting for me to even begin to realize there were problems.
I left with the major exodus. But as a 19-year old (when I first came in contact with the group), I didn't know better.
At that time (1986), there was a handful of clergy and other leaders who took a strong stand. Belt, T Reahard, JALVIS, Pierce and R.A.D.
The stand they took was life changing. They all were heavily vilified and attacked (verbally for the most part) for it.
The organization closed ranks, which it was able to do by controlling the news and information available to "twig leaves" until the advent of the internet.
Even then, cult tactics kept (and still do), out of fear, some people from even daring to question the culture.
No, we who left and reclaimed our lives didn't fail. We succeeded.
We had no responsibility to do any more than we could or have to undermine the evil that keeps people in emotional bondage.
I never stood up to VPW because I never interacted with him. I did, however, stand up to leadership, including the limb leader. It cost me a lot. People who know me in real life are probably chuckling because my obstinance was usually the very thing that got me in trouble. It's a mistake to assume that no one pushed back. As Rocky pointed out, there were lots of people who stood up against the system. Their voices were squelched in the process. Remember, too, at the time, most of us had no idea the problems we saw were widespread and systemic. No, I don't see it as a problem of lack of guts. Lack of common sense, sure, but not a lack of guts.
Ham, Waysider, et.al.: We were the folks with the guts to stop it but we did not - it was folks like us who did not find the guts to stand up and change things so we should not be talking about being bullied. We failed: Period.
We had the opportunity to take control of a situation that we "knew" was going bad and did not stand on our convicions.
I am ashamed. There are plenty of rationalizations/excuses but that does not make it.
If we had done our job then there would not even be a reason for the GSC.
What did you fail at? Take control of what? What job? Change what things?
"Hey, stop bullying! Check up from the neck up"
"Um, okay, thanks for the reproof man, I really missed the mark that time."
"Um, okay, thanks for the reproof man, I really missed the mark that time."
"No condemnation"
Do people even realize he sometimes surrounded himself with bodyguards? Do they know he would sometimes dispatch thugs to "have a word" with dissenters on the field?
I can't speak of any knowledge of bodyguards. VPW was dead and gone before my memory.
I can speak for the system, the culture, the way of life. Everyone was involved. Everyone participated. Everyone was bullied. Everyone was a bully.
In fact, I can't think of anyone NEW coming to fellowship that wasn't coerced to be there. It takes being bullied to get involved with TWI. It takes becoming a bully to stay involved with TWI.
And we were bullied into recruiting other people so they could too could get bullied. I was miserable so it was hard for me to be motivated to recruit others to join me in my misery.
In most cases of bullying (the adult type, not the "mean kid on the playground" type) the most effective way of coping is not "standing up to it", but rather removing oneself from the source.
I think that under VP, most were unaware they were being bullied. It became obvious under LCM as he lacked the charisma and the natural leadership of VP. VP (the one time I met him) was charming. I never got that from LCM.
I DID feel coerced and manipulated under VP.
I attended my first ROA right after I completed PLAF, and I definitely felt "led" to at least try and go WOW. Even for several months after I married my post WOW/advanced class grad spouse, I tried to see if there was a way I could swing it. Then my husband invited me to read the WOW manual. All I could say after reading that was, WOW!. I had no desire to put myself and my kid through that. It was a standard that not even Jesus could adhere to, but it did give the bullies an opening as (presumably) one agreed to the standard.
Tzaia, I went WOW, and had a horrible year; I am surprised that I lasted the entire year on the field. TWI gave us zero support, and it was hard to keep a job with all their rules, and regulations. Many of us went hungry, and TWI never cared about it. If I had been smart, I would never have allowed myself to be pressured into going WOW. I lost a lot of weight that year, because I didn't have enough money to buy food. Some people may have had a good WOW year, but most of us didn't.
Then in the mid-1990s -- BAM! -- along came the internet and VPee's protegé never knew what hit him... so to speak.
Have you ever wondered why the twi corporate culture evolved the way it did? NFWay would Wierwille have been able to get away with that crap for as long as he did he had the world wide web to contend with back then.
For sure Sky. VPW would have been exposed, and perhaps gone to prison. He probably would have been joined by some of the other big guns of TWI.
SkyRider.......the folks here at the GSC have exposed quite a bit of the soft, infected underbelly of twit. We know a lot about who the lifelong losers who took twit for themselves along with 64 million $ are. The spot has helped to knock them down to where they are now. They'll be a around as long as the money holds out to keep Gunnison and hellquarters alive and paid for. Or until they all just die off.
We know much about who did what. Vic did control all the info and communication from hq while he was healthy. There was no recourse. The propaganda machine has been in place since Van Wert. But, the Internet did open the floodgates and the river is still at flood stage. As secure and rich as Rosie and her lover Donna think they are, they live a wretched existence in guilt, shame, and revisionist denial. They can have it all. I'd never trade places with any of those lowlife criminals.
DWBH, neither would I!! I wonder how they can look into a mirror, knowing how much pain, and misery they have caused.
I have to disagree with you. From the early 1970s (when I first became involved with twi), there WERE people who attempted to stand up to VPee. They were heavily attacked. They left the organization.
Those who remained, in my estimation, did not realize just how messed up the entire subculture was. It took me until 1986 and obtaining a bachelor's degree in accounting for me to even begin to realize there were problems.
I left with the major exodus. But as a 19-year old (when I first came in contact with the group), I didn't know better.
At that time (1986), there was a handful of clergy and other leaders who took a strong stand. Belt, T Reahard, JALVIS, Pierce and R.A.D.
The stand they took was life changing. They all were heavily vilified and attacked (verbally for the most part) for it.
The organization closed ranks, which it was able to do by controlling the news and information available to "twig leaves" until the advent of the internet.
Even then, cult tactics kept (and still do), out of fear, some people from even daring to question the culture.
No, we who left and reclaimed our lives didn't fail. We succeeded.
We had no responsibility to do any more than we could or have to undermine the evil that keeps people in emotional bondage.
Rocky, well-said. I am only responsible for my behavior; you are responsible for your's.
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Rocky
Some outstanding comments.
I saw this happen to me in a post-twi workplace situation I was in... I was, in that situation, involved in labor organizing. The source material provided by Waysider is poignant and brings back vivid memories to me.
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chockfull
Child abuse pure and simple. Brainwashed parents. Extreme fear of not reporting back. I never let other adults spank my kids. Thats my job. I kept that shiz out of my areas of influence but I saw it and was powerless to stop it.
Still probably my rationalization.
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Bolshevik
Not really referring to child abuse alone . . . but how it's likely a symptom of something else. I've seen those phrases, or similar enough ones, used on adults and kids alike. These things were often done in front of audiences.
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waysider
Public humiliation. (or fear of it) It's powerful and it's effective.
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Bolshevik
I think there was a spiritual hunger to feed. How do you know if the Adversary is being defeated or not if nobody is cast before the crowd?
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MRAP
Ham, Waysider, et.al.: We were the folks with the guts to stop it but we did not - it was folks like us who did not find the guts to stand up and change things so we should not be talking about being bullied. We failed: Period.
We had the opportunity to take control of a situation that we "knew" was going bad and did not stand on our convicions.
I am ashamed. There are plenty of rationalizations/excuses but that does not make it.
If we had done our job then there would not even be a reason for the GSC.
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Rocky
I have to disagree with you. From the early 1970s (when I first became involved with twi), there WERE people who attempted to stand up to VPee. They were heavily attacked. They left the organization.
Those who remained, in my estimation, did not realize just how messed up the entire subculture was. It took me until 1986 and obtaining a bachelor's degree in accounting for me to even begin to realize there were problems.
I left with the major exodus. But as a 19-year old (when I first came in contact with the group), I didn't know better.
At that time (1986), there was a handful of clergy and other leaders who took a strong stand. Belt, T Reahard, JALVIS, Pierce and R.A.D.
The stand they took was life changing. They all were heavily vilified and attacked (verbally for the most part) for it.
The organization closed ranks, which it was able to do by controlling the news and information available to "twig leaves" until the advent of the internet.
Even then, cult tactics kept (and still do), out of fear, some people from even daring to question the culture.
No, we who left and reclaimed our lives didn't fail. We succeeded.
We had no responsibility to do any more than we could or have to undermine the evil that keeps people in emotional bondage.
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waysider
I never stood up to VPW because I never interacted with him. I did, however, stand up to leadership, including the limb leader. It cost me a lot. People who know me in real life are probably chuckling because my obstinance was usually the very thing that got me in trouble. It's a mistake to assume that no one pushed back. As Rocky pointed out, there were lots of people who stood up against the system. Their voices were squelched in the process. Remember, too, at the time, most of us had no idea the problems we saw were widespread and systemic. No, I don't see it as a problem of lack of guts. Lack of common sense, sure, but not a lack of guts.
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waysider
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Bolshevik
What did you fail at? Take control of what? What job? Change what things?
"Hey, stop bullying! Check up from the neck up"
"Um, okay, thanks for the reproof man, I really missed the mark that time."
"No condemnation"
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waysider
Do people even realize he sometimes surrounded himself with bodyguards? Do they know he would sometimes dispatch thugs to "have a word" with dissenters on the field?
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Bolshevik
I can't speak of any knowledge of bodyguards. VPW was dead and gone before my memory.
I can speak for the system, the culture, the way of life. Everyone was involved. Everyone participated. Everyone was bullied. Everyone was a bully.
In fact, I can't think of anyone NEW coming to fellowship that wasn't coerced to be there. It takes being bullied to get involved with TWI. It takes becoming a bully to stay involved with TWI.
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outandabout
And we were bullied into recruiting other people so they could too could get bullied. I was miserable so it was hard for me to be motivated to recruit others to join me in my misery.
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waysider
In most cases of bullying (the adult type, not the "mean kid on the playground" type) the most effective way of coping is not "standing up to it", but rather removing oneself from the source.
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Bolshevik
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Grace Valerie Claire
Tzaia, I went WOW, and had a horrible year; I am surprised that I lasted the entire year on the field. TWI gave us zero support, and it was hard to keep a job with all their rules, and regulations. Many of us went hungry, and TWI never cared about it. If I had been smart, I would never have allowed myself to be pressured into going WOW. I lost a lot of weight that year, because I didn't have enough money to buy food. Some people may have had a good WOW year, but most of us didn't.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Who knows why they left; but I suspect they saw a lot of unsavory aspects of TWI, and did not want to deal with them any longer.
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Grace Valerie Claire
For sure Sky. VPW would have been exposed, and perhaps gone to prison. He probably would have been joined by some of the other big guns of TWI.
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Grace Valerie Claire
DWBH, neither would I!! I wonder how they can look into a mirror, knowing how much pain, and misery they have caused.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Way, so do I!! I think many of us here at the GSC regret that we were ever associated with TWI.
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Grace Valerie Claire
Rocky, well-said. I am only responsible for my behavior; you are responsible for your's.
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