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All about the RESEARCH

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On 12/4/2017 at 4:07 AM, Twinky said:

The debt thing really should be completely changed.  TWI doesn't teach proper budgeting skills - when I was in rez we all had to write down what we spent our monthly pocket money on, and it was scrutinised when we got our next pocket money.  But budgeting skills and forward planning, as such, weren't taught.

I contrast that with what churches here are doing to help people learn about finances, and get out of debt.  No beating with cudgels, no condemnation, but instead good solid advice and help.  Contact with creditors too, to get them to hold off with their intimidating letters and visits.

Just suppose: if TWI had taught budgeting skills and debt management, how much that skill base could have been taken into the community to help people learn to balance their budgets.  It's not "research" as such, but it is practical help.
 

One possible reason TWI never taught proper budgetting: Why would they want to deprive themselves of more ABS?

It's hard to convince people to live at need when you've told them to budget 15% to ABS.

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Sometime in the 80s if not sooner, the idea of REREADING the twi books rather than actually doing your own research had made progress among leadership, About 1990, AFTER LEAVING,. a local leader was nervous about the idea of locals actually doing their own research and teaching it.  He said it would be better to go over the collaterals.  

In the 1990s, lcm began saying the word "research" meant to "search again", that is, to keep covering the same ground ad infinitum the collaterals covered.

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48 minutes ago, WordWolf said:

Sometime in the 80s if not sooner, the idea of REREADING the twi books rather than actually doing your own research had made progress among leadership, About 1990, AFTER LEAVING,. a local leader was nervous about the idea of locals actually doing their own research and teaching it.  He said it would be better to go over the collaterals.  

In the 1990s, lcm began saying the word "research" meant to "search again", that is, to keep covering the same ground ad infinitum the collaterals covered.

Of course they didn't want anyone doing their own research.  Your own research might lead to the realization that PLAF is riddled with errors and Saint Vic is a fraud. 

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8 hours ago, So_crates said:

One possible reason TWI never taught proper budgetting: Why would they want to deprive themselves of more ABS?

It's hard to convince people to live at need when you've told them to budget 15% to ABS.

Well, proper budgeting was taught under martindales reign of terror. Then it was mandated and budgets were submitted to leadership for approval. If the proper amount of abs wasnt there the confrontation and coercion followed.

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1 hour ago, WordWolf said:

Sometime in the 80s if not sooner, the idea of REREADING the twi books rather than actually doing your own research had made progress among leadership, About 1990, AFTER LEAVING,. a local leader was nervous about the idea of locals actually doing their own research and teaching it.  He said it would be better to go over the collaterals.  

In the 1990s, lcm began saying the word "research" meant to "search again", that is, to keep covering the same ground ad infinitum the collaterals covered.

That concept is so embedded into the directors thinking that the colatterals (and many other publications, classes) are considered proven ministry research and are above reproach. Thus, the biblical student is still directed to keep researching whats been taught, but not to bring up any errors because 75 years of biblical research is above reproach. 

Kinda like the accumulated wisdom line john rupp fed me when referring to decisions made by the directors concerning my life....they knew better than me concerning my own life...lol

Edited by OldSkool
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2 hours ago, OldSkool said:

Well, proper budgeting was taught under martindales reign of terror. Then it was mandated and budgets were submitted to leadership for approval. If the proper amount of abs wasnt there the confrontation and coercion followed.

OS, are you S---ting me; people had to submit a personal/family budget??  I would have told them; my money is my business, and left!!  Such nerve!!

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2 hours ago, So_crates said:

Of course they didn't want anyone doing their own research.  Your own research might lead to the realization that PLAF is riddled with errors and Saint Vic is a fraud. 

Sic, God forbid that people in TWI, see that VPW was garbage, and take their ABS with them.

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19 minutes ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

OS, are you S---ting me; people had to submit a personal/family budget??  

 

Not sure it was mandated on the same level personal schedules were, or set in stone the same as the pregnancy policy for active corps, but yes i lived through this with my branch coordinator soon after i got involved with twi. Since my "spiritual goals" were to go way disciple and way corps i was asked submit my personal budget and had it restructured and approved by my branch coordinator. I had my abs increased and my priorities realigned financially to fit more inline with what martindale was spewing from his lectern. I was expected to submit my budget on a regular basis as well as my proposed and actual schedule each week.

If u wanted to pursue ministey programs then it was expected that u fall in line with what was asked of you by leadetship. Incrementally, like orhers, my boundaries were removed and i had no idea of the steady erosion that had occured until years later.

Edited by OldSkool
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Oh yes! We had to show our budget AND checkbook (some of us) to prove it. Some folks had to produce their paycheck stub to prove they were ABSing. My twig coo'd didn't get too strict with me. We'd been around and he'd say things like..."I can tell by the quality of your life" ...yadda yadda.

And don't get me started about our schedule in 15 minute intervals. We had to produce one of those every week too.

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1 minute ago, OldSkool said:

 

Not sure it was mandated on the same level personal schedules were, or set in stone the same as the pregnancy policy for active corps, but yes i lived through this with my branch coordinator soon after i got involved with twi. Since my "spiritual goals" were to go way disciple and way corps i was asked submit my personal budget and had it restructured and approved by my branch coordinator. I had my abs increased and my priorities realigned financially to fit more inline with what martindale was spewing from his lectern. 

If u wanted to pursue ministey programs then it was expected that u fall in line with what was asked of you by leadetship. Incrementally, like orhers, my boundaries were removed and i had no idea of the steady erosion that had occured until years later.

OS, wow!!  I didn't know about the budget thing before.  I can understand why you submitted to this Hog Wash; I think you mentioned you went Corps??  I never went Corps; thank God.  But you are right; TWI did erode personal boundaries of its people. 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, krys said:

Oh yes! We had to show our budget AND checkbook (some of us) to prove it. Some folks had to produce their paycheck stub to prove they were ABSing. My twig coo'd didn't get too strict with me. We'd been around and he'd say things like..."I can tell by the quality of your life" ...yadda yadda.

And don't get me started about our schedule in 15 minute intervals. We had to produce one of those every week too.

Krys, I left before all that trash started, thank God.  

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7 minutes ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

OS, wow!!  I didn't know about the budget thing before.  I can understand why you submitted to this Hog Wash; I think you mentioned you went Corps??  I never went Corps; thank God.  But you are right; TWI did erode personal boundaries of its people. 

 

 

Yeah, if there was a ministry program that i could sign up for i did. My last assignment was on the presidunce cabinet and was an exercise in futility...but....yes...ive been all around the way tree and climbed up and down that sucker too.

The micromanagement by twi increased the deeper one went down the rabbit hole.

And why wouldnt you want leadership looking over your finances? You are keeping your spiritual goals first? Right? Arent you willing to submit to the higher powers in the church? Etc...

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5 hours ago, krys said:

Oh yes! We had to show our budget AND checkbook (some of us) to prove it. Some folks had to produce their paycheck stub to prove they were ABSing. My twig coo'd didn't get too strict with me. We'd been around and he'd say things like..."I can tell by the quality of your life" ...yadda yadda.

And don't get me started about our schedule in 15 minute intervals. We had to produce one of those every week too.

Krys, TWI started that 15 minute schedule thing, after I left.  Who wanted to know your schedule?  Was it done on a week-to-week basis? I have never heard of this being done outside, TWI.

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8 hours ago, OldSkool said:

Well, proper budgeting was taught under martindales reign of terror. Then it was mandated and budgets were submitted to leadership for approval. If the proper amount of abs wasnt there the confrontation and coercion followed.

OS, I have problems sometimes with my personal budget; sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. In my opinion, budgets are guidelines, and help me keep track of my money.  I guess everyone has his, or her view of "proper budgeting."  What works for some, may not work for others. 

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Search (or re-search) into people's pockets, what say?

Also search (and re-search) into people's daily habits, including time spent with spouses.  How prurient!

Some of the best research we (as ex-Wayfers) can do is - read other versions of the Bible.  Especially more recent ones, in more comprehensible language.  Can really bring those dry old passages into sparkling life.

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12 minutes ago, Twinky said:

Search (or re-search) into people's pockets, what say?

Also search (and re-search) into people's daily habits, including time spent with spouses.  How prurient!

Some of the best research we (as ex-Wayfers) can do is - read other versions of the Bible.  Especially more recent ones, in more comprehensible language.  Can really bring those dry old passages into sparkling life.

Twinky, bingo!!  Great post!

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22 hours ago, OldSkool said:

Well, proper budgeting was taught under martindales reign of terror. Then it was mandated and budgets were submitted to leadership for approval. If the proper amount of abs wasnt there the confrontation and coercion followed.

OS, I can understand having classes for proper budgeting; some people have no idea of how to set up a personal budget.  However, I think when the classes end, that should be the end of leadership getting involved in my personal finances.

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14 hours ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

OS, I can understand having classes for proper budgeting; some people have no idea of how to set up a personal budget.  However, I think when the classes end, that should be the end of leadership getting involved in my personal finances.

And hence you have pinpointed the #1 problem with a cult.

Boundaries.

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On 12/10/2017 at 11:12 PM, krys said:

Oh yes! We had to show our budget AND checkbook (some of us) to prove it. Some folks had to produce their paycheck stub to prove they were ABSing. My twig coo'd didn't get too strict with me. We'd been around and he'd say things like..."I can tell by the quality of your life" ...yadda yadda.

And don't get me started about our schedule in 15 minute intervals. We had to produce one of those every week too.

I think if someone demanded I show them my checkbook and paycheck stub to prove I was properly ABSing, I'd tell them,"Good idea, you want to show me you checkbook and paystub to prove to me YOUR properly ABSing?"

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