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revvel

a revelation

34 posts in this topic

In Revelation, John quoted Isaiah:

“They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.” (Rev. 7:16, 17)

John quoted Isaiah (49:10; 25:8) for the same reason Paul quoted Isaiah and Hosea, and Peter quoted Joel: to reveal the future tense fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy in the light of New Testament revelation, the mystery.

Paul and John both quoted from the prophecy found in Isaiah 25:8. No coincidence. Christ’s precedent.

John’s Old Testament quote of Isaiah follows the sixth seal, and comes before the seventh seal. Thus, John’s quote of Isaiah is part of the sixth seal revelation:

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood. And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.  And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. (Rev. 6:12-14)    

This seal presents the same signs as prophesied by Peter: the sun turning black and the moon turning blood red. John's revelation adds to Peter's signs.

Following the sixth seal, there are 3 separate prophecies for 3 separate groups of people: Gentiles (Rev. 6:15–17), Jews (Rev. 7:1-8), and the church of God (Rev. 7:9-17). This is exactly how God sees His creation: “the Jews, … the Gentiles, … the church of God” (1 Cor. 10:32).

The third presentation, which pertains to the church, begins with Revelation 7:9:

“After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.” (Rev. 7:9, 10)

“Salvation to our God….” This future tense salvation is the same future tense salvation prophesied by Peter on Pentecost:

“The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:  And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” (Acts 2:20, 21)

John’s vision of the church raptured to Heaven concludes with John’s quote of Isaiah (Rev. 7:16, 17).

The plagues of the wrath begin after the seventh seal opens in Rev. 8. And with the church already raptured to Heaven, it is saved from the wrath—exactly as Paul prophesied: (Rom. 5:9; 1 Thess. 1:10; 1 Thess. 5:9).

When applying the precedent set by Christ, the revelation given to us by Peter, Paul, and John reveals this: The Rapture, which is accompanied by dramatic heavenly and earthly signs, will occur before the wrath.

Next: Paul’s prophecy of the Rapture 1 Thess. 4 & 5, and what Paul says about the day of the Lord coming as a thief, and what Christ has to say about coming as a “thief.”

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so... when do you get to the part about your revelation?

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TLC: The answer to your question is in my first post.

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Paul: The Day of the Lord: 1 Thess. 4:13-18; 5:1-10

Paul began his prophecy of the Rapture in 1 Thess. 4:13 and ended his prophecy by declaring Christ’s kingdom is saved from the wrath (1 Thess. 5:9, 10). Thus, the “effect” of being saved from the wrath has an unmistakable “cause,” the Rapture.

In the midst of the prophecy, Paul prophesied about the day of the Lord—just as Peter did on Pentecost.

Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. (1 Thess. 5:1, 2)

When Paul prophesied about the day of the Lord coming like a thief in the night, he prophesied about “times and dates,” not the lack of signs.  

When Christ prophesied of His return, He said: “Behold, I come like a thief!” (Rev. 16:15). This prophecy is in the context of Armageddon, which is “the battle on the great day of God Almighty” (Rev. 16:14). As prophesied, God will save Israel in this battle. 

Who among us would say Armageddon is a “signless” event? 

If Christ doesn’t use “thief” to mean a “signless” event, then what right does anyone in His church have to claim that Paul’s use of “thief” means the Rapture is a “signless” event?

Christ and Paul are referring to the same subject, “timing,” not the lack of the signs.  

Christ’s reference to a thief speaks not of a quiet return, but of the sudden surprise of His return—just as Paul prophesied of the sudden nature of events pertaining to Christ’s descent during the Rapture: “While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape (1 Thess. 5:3).  

This thread has applied Christ’s precedent to the prophecies of Peter, Paul, and John. Christ’s precedent is a systematic approach to the New Testament that has no exceptions. TLC: That was a revelation.

From this biblical truth, this truth is evident: the Rapture, accompanied by dramatic heavenly and earthly signs, prior to the wrath, is sound doctrine. Peter, Paul, and John all quoted Old Testament prophets, and each provided different pieces of the prophetic puzzle, painting a unified picture.

If you choose to embrace Christ's precedent, you have His interpretation of our present tense salvation and our future tense salvation.

I will finish this thread by circling back to Matt. 24.

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For those who might not know, this thread came out of my other thread: Treasures in Heaven.

Treasures in Heaven is free book on my site thetimeline.org

Chapter 4 of the book addresses the details of the Rapture.

“The Epilogue: The Chronology of Prophecy” addresses the numbered chronology in Revelation, which includes the Rapture and Armageddon.

I’ll be back next week on Matt. 24.

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The debate about Matthew 24 concerns the timing of the fulfillment of prophecy: "this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." Is the "generation" of the first century or a future century? And we know Christ quoted Daniel in Matthew 24.  

This thread started by applying Christ’s precedent to Peter, Paul, and John to discern the timing and nature of the Rapture, and will continue by applying the same principle. 

We as Christ’s kingdom have the precedent of Christ quoting Old Testament prophets to show the present tense and future tense fulfillment of prophecy. We also have the unmistakable testimony of two witnesses—Christ and Peter—as to why an Old Testament prophet is quoted:

Christ: “This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.” Luke 4.

Peter: “this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel.” Acts 2.

Old Testament prophets are quoted in the New Testament to demonstrate the fulfillment of prophecy in light of New Testament revelation. Thus, Christ quoted Daniel in Matthew 24 to show the fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy in the light of Christ’s New Testament revelation.

Yet, also debated is Daniel’s prophecy: Was it 100% fulfilled in the first century or is a portion of Daniel’s prophecy yet to be fulfilled? This adds another layer to the debate.

Thankfully, Christ gave additional revelation to Paul expounding upon His own prophecies in the Gospels. In Romans, Paul quoted an Old Testament prophet and he did so in the light of New Testament revelation—only this revelation speaks of the mystery (the church) and Israel in the same breath. Paul’s prophecy quotes Isaiah which is directly connected to Joel, and all these prophecies tie right into Luke 21, which tie right into Matthew 24. Herein, the prophets and Paul answer the question of the "generation" and the content of the generation. In other words, the answer is already given in the Old Testament, and Paul directed us where to look.

As we know, Paul knew the Old Testament. Christ taught Paul what those Old Testament prophecies meant—for the mystery (the church) and Israel—and Paul (along with Peter and John) taught us. 

After Paul’s quote, the thread will go to Matthew 24, and how Christ quoted Isaiah, who prophesied of the day of the Lord. 

There will be multiple witnesses from within the Old and New Testaments who are in agreement regarding how to understand Matthew 24, and how it fits with the rest of the Bible. All that reveals this: “This generation shall not pass” cannot be from the first century, but rather, is the generation associated with the fulfillment of end-time prophecy associated with the day of the Lord. 

The thread will also look at Peter’s prophecy on Pentecost, how he quoted Joel to answer the question he received, and how it mirrors how Christ responded to the questions He received. 

Finally, the thread will end with Daniel’s prophecy.

Next: Paul’s quote of Isaiah.

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In Luke 21, Christ issued this prophecy: 

Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.” (Luke 21: 24b-28)

The question is: when are the times of the Gentiles fulfilled?

In Romans, Christ gave revelation to Paul when he quoted Isaiah, and simultaneously Paul issued a prophecy, and he spoke of the mystery and Israel in the same breath.

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins.” (Rom. 11:2527)

Paul said, “As it is written…” Christ taught Paul.

The mystery pertains to Christ’s kingdom/church—those who are born again.

Israel, in essence, refers to the followers of Moses (and has nothing to do with the followers of the Christ/the mystery). And Israel is partially blind during the times of the Gentiles.

Note: Jacob was renamed Israel: “And he said unto him, What is thy name? And he said, Jacob. And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed” (Gen. 32:27, 28).

Paul revealed this about when the “fullness of the Gentiles has come in”:

1. All Israel will be saved

2. The Deliverer will come out of Zion

3. He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob

4. For this is My covenant with them when I take away their sins

Back to what Paul said, “As it is written…”

In Romans 11, Paul quoted Isaiah 59 and Isaiah 27. First Isaiah 59:

So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him.  And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord. As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord. (Isa. 59:19-21)

The Deliverer/Redeemer shall come out of/to Zion, and deliver Jacob/Israel when the enemy shall come like a flood. This is when the “fullness of the Gentiles come in,” or as Christ prophesied, “when the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”

Now, look at the greater context of Isaiah’s prophecy of the Redeemer, which identifies when the Deliverer will deliver Israel:

And thou shalt know that I the Lord am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob….The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; (Isa. 60:16; 61:1, 2)

As we know, Jesus quoted Isa. 61:1, 2a in Luke 4 to proclaim His earthly ministry (the acceptable year of the Lord), but He never quoted and the day of vengeance of our God” because it was future tense.

And, Paul and Isaiah said the Deliverer come to/out of Zion. When?

Joel already prophesied of it:

Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great. Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision. The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.  The Lord also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the Lord will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. So shall ye know that I am the Lord your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk… (Joel 3:13-18)

When the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled, “Thy people also shall be all righteous,” “then shall Jerusalem be holy.”

Was Jerusalem made holy in the first century? No. The temple was destroyed.

Finally, in Romans 11, Paul also quoted Isaiah 27: “When I take away their sins.”

Isaiah 27

By this, then, will Jacob’s guilt be atoned for, and this will be the full fruit of the removal of his sin: (Isa. 27:9)

The context is this:

In that day the Lord will thresh from the flowing Euphrates to the Wadi of Egypt, and you, Israel, will be gathered up one by one. And in that day a great trumpet will sound. Those who were perishing in Assyria and those who were exiled in Egypt will come and worship the Lord on the holy mountain in Jerusalem. (Isa. 27:12, 13)

What will sound? The great trumpet (not the last trumpet).

Who will be gathered? Israel.

Next: Matthew 24:29-31

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Christ’s prophecy in Matthew 24 contains prophecy already given in the Old Testament:

Immediately after the distress of those days “‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’  “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. (Matt. 24:29-31)

Christ quoted Isaiah:

Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. (Isa.13:9, 10)

Matthew 24:29-31 is in the context of the Day of the Lord. The generation of this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened” is the generation of the day of the Lord—which is still future tense.

Next: Luke 21 Narrative.

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Acts 2 & Luke 21: Christ’s Precedent

Peter and Jesus were both questioned. Their responses mirror one another: each presented the present tense fulfillment of prophecy and the future tense fulfillment of prophecy.

Peter

Acts 2:12-21 begins with Peter being asked a question, What meaneth this?”

PRESENT TENSE FULFILLMENT

Peter answered directly by quoting Joel: “I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh…”

FUTURE TENSE FULFILLMENT

Peter also gave the crowd prophecy that went into future tense fulfillment: “the day of the Lord.”

“What meaneth this?” This is what it means: Our present salvation means future salvation which will come to pass with the arrival of the day of the Lord.

Peter answered a question providing present tense fulfillment, and continued to future tense fulfillment. Christ did likewise. He set the precedent.

Christ

In Luke 21, Christ gave us another precedent: Christ answered the questions of the disciples that addressed the first century fulfillment of prophecy (the destruction of the temple), and he gave them prophecy that would be fulfilled in a future century: Israel’s redemption.

Luke 21

Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said, “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.”  “Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?” (Luke 21:5-7)

PRESENT TENSE FULFILLMENT: FIRST CENTURY

Christ answered their questions, culminating in this:

When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. (Luke 21:20-24)

Judgment upon Israel was catastrophic in the first century.

PRESENT TENSE TO FUTURE CENTURY

In one prophecy—Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled”—Jesus took the crowd from the present century to a future century. Why? Judgment was not the end of God’s plan; redemption would follow in a future century.

FUTURE TENSE FULFILLMENT

“There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.” (Luke 21:25-28)

Israel’s redemption will come—with the fulfillment of the times of the Gentiles—and it will come by way of its redeemer: “And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord” (Isa. 59:20)—just as Paul prophesied in Rom. 11.

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