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So_crates

Is PLAF theopneustos, god-breathe?

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Not singling anybody out, Mike.  But if in 20 or more years you cannot point to any practical benefit - well, it seems to me that some local self-help group might be more helpful.  Slimming World, or Assertiveness.  Or even just an Art class.  One would probably learn something practical at the very first session.

 

Apologies, Modcat.

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45 minutes ago, Twinky said:

Not singling anybody out, Mike.  But if in 20 or more years you cannot point to any practical benefit - well, it seems to me that some local self-help group might be more helpful.  Slimming World, or Assertiveness.  Or even just an Art class.  One would probably learn something practical at the very first session.

 

Did I say this?  I thought I said I am not prepared to present.

In my own life I can point to things, but many would take a long time to present. Some are so personal I'd rather do it in private, and only to some people. Some are still being researched and pondered. I know that to present anything here I have to plan like George Washington crossing the Delaware River.

I know that as soon as I post anything it's going to draw crossfire from half a dozen adversaries. Have you ever presented anything to a jeering audience? I doubt it. I use jeering and catcalls as practice for doing stand-up comedy. When I'm on mic I have no time to think and edit, like I do here.

Here's a tid-bit I'll toss out on a relatively rare impulse post: "Christ formed in you."  Anyone know anything about this topic, either in theory or in practice?  I'm still working on this great benefit, but I'm greatly interested if anyone here knows anything about it.  It's from Gal. 4:19 and a few SNS tapes.

Edited by Mike

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52 minutes ago, Mike said:

Is that a standard ploy?  Instead of dealing with the points of discussion you want to single me out for derision?  When posters start resorting to distractions from what I post I think maybe I'm hitting a nerve or something.

I admitted to you that this is something I want to think about. Are you AT ALL interested in the topic of discussion or are you trying to hustle me around?

 

Expecting negative results again. Have you checked your believing?

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1 minute ago, Mike said:

I know that as soon as I post anything it's going to draw crossfire from half a dozen adversaries. Have you ever presented anything to a jeering audience? I doubt it. I use jeering and catcalls as practice for doing stand-up comedy. When I'm on mic I have no time to think and edit, like I do here.

More negative expectations. More negative believing.

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49 minutes ago, Twinky said:

Apologies, Modcat.

I am far more guilty of that behavior than you. That's how I recognized it. ;)

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2 minutes ago, modcat5 said:

I am far more guilty of that behavior than you. That's how I recognized it. ;)

 

If it helps anyone, I feel no grudges from it. 

I realize my posting tests peoples' emotions, and I can't blame anyone.

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Continuing from before…

I realize my posting tests peoples' emotions, and I can't blame anyone.

If someone had accurately and politely presented the God-breathed PFAL idea to me a few years earlier and without the special preps I got, then I'd have been strongly against it. I try to keep this in mind. The reason I press on with presenting it is it testifies of the goodness of God in an intensity that serves as proof for me.

I can see all the negatives that abounded with the ministry and that are reported here, but the goodness of God I also see in PFAL completely overshadows all of the TWI woes.

That one paragraph can serve as my mini-manifesto on a thumbnail.

I see this overshadowing as similar to Paul’s argument in Romans that the reason God tolerated the disobedience of Adam and death that resulted was He saw the obedience of Jesus Christ as FAR OVERSHADOWING all the woes in death. Paul argues that it’s worth it, what’s coming.

The goodness of God I see in PFAL is like what I see in the stars. Atheists look at the stars and see a testimony of man’s total insignificance. I see them as being there for us, the greatly significant ones, the ones who dare to believe in a God so good that He would create the entire universe just for us.

 

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26 minutes ago, Mike said:

Continuing from before…

I realize my posting tests peoples' emotions, and I can't blame anyone.

If someone had accurately and politely presented the God-breathed PFAL idea to me a few years earlier and without the special preps I got, then I'd have been strongly against it. I try to keep this in mind. The reason I press on with presenting it is it testifies of the goodness of God in an intensity that serves as proof for me.

I can see all the negatives that abounded with the ministry and that are reported here, but the goodness of God I also see in PFAL completely overshadows all of the TWI woes.

That one paragraph can serve as my mini-manifesto on a thumbnail.

I see this overshadowing as similar to Paul’s argument in Romans that the reason God tolerated the disobedience of Adam and death that resulted was He saw the obedience of Jesus Christ as FAR OVERSHADOWING all the woes in death. Paul argues that it’s worth it, what’s coming.

The goodness of God I see in PFAL is like what I see in the stars. Atheists look at the stars and see a testimony of man’s total insignificance. I see them as being there for us, the greatly significant ones, the ones who dare to believe in a God so good that He would create the entire universe just for us

And continuing from before....

 

I've spent 42 years of my life with PLAF, following the principles of renewed mind and believing. That's ignoring ridicule for 42 years thinking: "Watch, I'll come out on top." That's 42 years of telling myself I was a super-conquer and that the best is yet to come.

Fourty-two years later, I find little in my life changed. Risks I've taken often failed and those same people encouraging me to take PLAF were no longer around to give me a sense of what I'd done wrong.

As I've related many times, PLAF failed me miserably.

Edited by So_crates

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1 hour ago, Mike said:

Here's a tid-bit I'll toss out on a relatively rare impulse post: "Christ formed in you."  Anyone know anything about this topic, either in theory or in practice? 

IF you are supposing that much silence portrays some sort of great ignorance of that particular subject matter, perhaps you'd allow me to suggest otherwise.  I don't doubt there are a few others that occasionally read here that know as much or more than I, and I'm no neophyte on the issue.  What is it, exactly, that you would like to bring up or point out about it?  

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14 minutes ago, So_crates said:

... I've spent 42 years of my life with PLAF, following the principles of renewed mind and believing. That's ignoring ridicule for 42 yeaers thinking: "Watch, I'll come out on top."

As I've related many times, PLAF failed me miserably.

I was luckier, somewhat.

I got some subtle results, but I also had lots of obvious failures in the first 15 years.  Then I got a 10 year break from all TWI officialdom. After that period, my PFAL experience has been written only for 20 years now. The results I enjoyed got better. About 5 years ago I started seeing some spectacular results.

From my varied results, and from my lucky clean separation of written PFAL out from all the TWI trappings, I would say that what failed you was a complicated mix of PFAL with a lot of TWI junk.

I think it is possible to sort it all out, but it would take time and be a lot of work. I’ll do my best to motivate you should you want to try.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, TLC said:

IF you are supposing that much silence portrays some sort of great ignorance of that particular subject matter, perhaps you'd allow me to suggest otherwise.  I don't doubt there are a few others that occasionally read here that know as much or more than I, and I'm no neophyte on the issue.  What is it, exactly, that you would like to bring up or point out about it?  

I'm interested in the fact that written PFAL does not bring up that verse but in one scant place.  I have found an edited article from an old SNS tape that looks like it was going to be a Way Magazine article. VPW did one more SNS on the verse, and Walter did one SNS on it. It looks like it was on the cutting edge of things.

What can you tell me of it? 

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8 minutes ago, Mike said:

I was luckier, somewhat.

I got some subtle results, but I also had lots of obvious failures in the first 15 years.  Then I got a 10 year break from all TWI officialdom. After that period, my PFAL experience has been written only for 20 years now. The results I enjoyed got better. About 5 years ago I started seeing some spectacular results.

From my varied results, and from my lucky clean separation of written PFAL out from all the TWI trappings, I would say that what failed you was a complicated mix of PFAL with a lot of TWI junk.

I think it is possible to sort it all out, but it would take time and be a lot of work. I’ll do my best to motivate you should you want to try.

You apparently didn't read what was written a few post back.

I was in the ministry a total of seven years of those 42 years, so your rationalization about PLAF and Way trappings falls flat.

 

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1 minute ago, So_crates said:

You apparently didn't read what was written a few post back.

I was in the ministry a total of seven years of those 42 years, so your rationalization about PLAF and Way trappings falls flat.

 

I think I was confusing you with skyrider there. Sorry.  I've been reading his thread on TWI-2.

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3 minutes ago, Mike said:

I think I was confusing you with skyrider there. Sorry.  I've been reading his thread on TWI-2.

As far as PLAF goes, here's a simple rule of life: It's easy to promise; it's a lot harder to produce.

PLAF proponents will promise you the moon and, when all is said and done, all you'll really get is excuses.

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19 minutes ago, So_crates said:

As far as PLAF goes, here's a simple rule of life: It's easy to promise; it's a lot harder to produce.

PLAF proponents will promise you the moon and, when all is said and done, all you'll really get is excuses.

Soc, :eusa_clap:

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1 hour ago, Mike said:

I'm interested in the fact that written PFAL does not bring up that verse but in one scant place.  I have found an edited article from an old SNS tape that looks like it was going to be a Way Magazine article. VPW did one more SNS on the verse, and Walter did one SNS on it. It looks like it was on the cutting edge of things.

What can you tell me of it? 

Why complicate it beyond when his (Christ's) thoughts become our thoughts?

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2 hours ago, Mike said:

Did I say this?  I thought I said I am not prepared to present.

In my own life I can point to things, but many would take a long time to present. Some are so personal I'd rather do it in private, and only to some people. Some are still being researched and pondered. I know that to present anything here I have to plan like George Washington crossing the Delaware River.

Mike, in a few words, I could present quite a number of things I learned whilst in TWI.  Possibly, probably, even from the Orange book.  Things I learned then, and continue to believe now.  And I know that it's in TWI that I learned those things, because I never learned them in the church I walked out of years before, because it was so boring.

So, then, I find it astonishing that you won't share anything that you learned.  You are "not prepared to present" anything.   Even though you have seen "spectacular results."  Most Christians love to share when they've seen "spectacular results" from seeing God at work.

The difference between you and me (and other Christians), however, is that I (and other Christians) use the Scriptures as the basis for what I believe.  And we give thanks and glory to God.  Whereas, you use the Orange book as the basis of your beliefs.  And give thanks and glory to a man.

Edited by Twinky

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