Just to let you know...I have never ever even thought, "If I were to do it all over again, I wouldn't have any."
What I have thought is, "If I were to do it all over again, I would NEVER listen to 'leadership' or anyone else who didn't have any kids."
Why? Because if someone doesn't live with a child day in and day, if someone hasn't invested their very breath into a child's well being, if the child is somebody else's....well, it's very, very, very, very easy to turn into the quintessential W C Fields type of person...and decide that kids are not worth the problems...and give bad advice from lack of experience....and manipulate parents with smug condescension about their lack of ability...so that parents end up trying to please the childless twig leader...or the childless branch leader...or the childless school teacher...or the childless social worker...or the childless legislator...
I congratulate people who have chosen not to have children just as much as I congratulate people who have chosen not to marry or not to own a home or not to do all of the other "American Dream" things...
But I do have to wonder about the truth behind the "choice" when people condescend towards those who have not made the same choice.
I understand the whole being judged because you are childless thing. I know your frustration. Believe it or not, you are not spared because you have a child. I have a little girl. I have been berated by ignorant women that have three or more children because I do not want another child. As I sat there letting them get to me and feeling less of a woman, I wondered Gosh if they do this to me....I wonder what they do women who do not want any children. I cried on my husband's shoulder when I got home. It was very painful and til this day,I do not know why I let them get to me.
Not all parents expect others to care for their children. I have seen some parents act the way you described, but most of us are not that way.
The reason why parents talk about their kids when asked how are you? Is because they are our lives. Its a 24 hour 7 day a week gig. That I would not trade for the world. I know it is hard for those without kids to understand. Most of us can't imagine what our lives were like before we had kids.
I applaud you for working with kids. When I was motherless, I ran away from children. They gave me the creeps. . Boy has my life changed!
I was "creating" a day for the rest of us, and somehow, it seems, a few of you feel attacked.
You know, Adios...it's almost like we can never be "good" enough. If you don't have any, why? If you "only" have one...that's not enough...If you have 4 people think you're crazy...yada yada yada
Seems to me, people just like looking for excuses to put other people down.
Never satisfied...never enough...or too much...or not good enough...
We want it bigger, brighter, better...and we want it NOW.
Live and let live is what I say ...we are such critics and judgers, aren't we?
You make good points, about the good parents that is. However, if you look at Wacky's post again, she's referring to the ones who either aren't the good parents, or the good ones who have had enough raising kids after theirs are grown.
True I'm not a parent, and I never had the experience of raising young'uns, but my mom related this to me as an example of the exception that many times challenges the 'norm' of which you speak.
When she (my mom) was little, she had an abusive father. I won't bore you with the personal details, but suffice it to illustrate, she never called him 'dad, only called him by his initials, "A.B.". That should give you a clue as to how low that boy went.
Anywho, she finally went off to live with her uncle, who wound up being devoted and an excellent 'father' to her. A.B. on the other hand, was totally irate as to this fact, and one day he went to, forceably if need be, take her back. A.B. thundered on as to the fact that he was her father and that he had the right to take her back, no questions asked. My great-uncle derisively retorted that A.B. was only her biological father, but it takes a real man, who is there for the child, takes care of the child, doesn't abuse the child, etc., who is the *real* 'daddy'. Hell, a dog could be a better 'father' than A.B. was.
And ya know, Ginger, there are *plenty* of examples that are similar to the one I gave here. Even examples of 'baby sitters' being better examples of parents than the alchoholic, and/or abusive, and/or 'devote their entire lives to their jobs/political cause/whatever', and/or "gotta make a big name for myself at the country club/PTA/whatever social event" biological ones.
"but, it doesn't make others who love their children clueless, nor ones without clued in"
Uhh, I believe that Wacky was referring to them being clueless as to how THEY were doing.
Actually, Wacky's post makes the case that there are more examples of not-so-loving parents than many folks feel comfortable knowing about.
Oh and by the way, Wacky would make an excellent mother *despite* what you said about her. Despite her not having the desire to have kids.
And it is a fact that there are parents who either look down on or are jealous of those of us who never had kids, and sometimes run off at the mouth about how we singles don't have as much capacity to love and care and yadayadayada, despite the all-too-many previous examples that clouds their side as well. Quite a bit of a selfish attitude there, y'think?
I know pretty well about the benefits of parents that aren't biological
... and so forth and so on ...
I'd go on but you have disappointed me...I need to get over it...
Ginger
Frankly, Ginger, the main reason I posted what I did was in response to your rather bad taste derision of Wacky.
Maybe her timing was off, but her post wasn't derogatory by any means to the good parents of which you speak. She was trying to make a point re: from her observations. And simply because it didn't fit with yours, or your experience doesn't make it derogatory. Or as the saying goes, "If the shoe fits, wear it".
You know your parenting example, and how good it is. So there is no need to feel threatened by Wacky's post.
The only 'Hate Crime' (tongue planted firmly in cheek) Wacky is guilty of is bad timing.
So as the immortal Sgt. Hulka once said, "Lighten up, Frances!"
When the above incident happened, I was at a dear friends house. Her little girl had her first communion and I was trying to help her entertain all her guest One lady just found out she was with child and she already had two. There was a lady with her second baby and then they ganged up on me. I have a ten (going on eleven) daughter who does not need me to change her diapers.
Anyway, later that month my dear friend invited my husband and I over for some vino, cheese and conversation. I found out that the preggos lady was very upset and did not want another child and that the one with the baby was in the same boat. Well! said I ....I guess they were taking their frustrations out on me. Be happy with where you are.
Garth,
Condesend? I hope you did not mean me. I must admit that when I first read Wacky posts, I was offended. I know she did not mean people like me and Ginger but, it still stung a little. (I do know that she did not intend to that) If I hadn't experienced the above, I probably would not have understood her frustration.
Bottom line the "haves" have one lifestyle that is rewarding and makes them happy. the "have nots" have a lifestyle that is rewarding and makes them happy. There are those in the "haves" and the "have nots" that are f*ked and are overall a pain in da b*tt!
Timing for unparents day? How about some time in July? The third Sunday? Is that good?
This is Dad's day. May they find a new grill or tools under the shade tree.
I was pleased to see Wacky's post because as a married person without children, I often have had to deal with feelings of inadeqecy about my childless state it and wondering if I am a selfish person.
I didn't read anything condescending about Wacky's post towards parents since I know her pretty well I can say that she and I both agree that being a parent is the worlds hardest job, And who, being a parent, in a public forum, would say anything negative about being a mom or dad? But since Wacky is a massage therapist it is likey that some worn out mommy or daddy might tell her what they would never tell anyone else.
I am fortunate to have some friends- couples- none that were in twi, that I socialize with several times a year. Two couples have one child and another on the way, (and one father who is 48 is not too happy about it) another just had their third child, another had their third but the first had died, one couple has one child, and another couple is desperate to have one and is undergoing artifical insemination etc.
I was the last of this group of become a couple- I have only been married since 9/98 --I was 38 and married a man I met in twi who is over 12 years my senior. We do not own a home, have no family here like my friends do, and do not forsee ever being able to stop working to raise a child. I am 42 now and he is 55- my husband does not want a child at this late time in his life. Plus he has been very ill in the past and could not work for year.
And you parents, please don't tell me I can and should still have a child because I have not reached menopause, I have had to defend myself against that many many many times.
I would have preferred to get married when I was younger and to have a child but things just didn't work out that they way for me. I am sometimes envious of my friends and their families and the fullness of their lives.
One of the greatest things about not being in twi is that I no longer have to deal with the "I'm ok, you are not ok" bs. This is the first time I have read a post from someone who said "it is ok not to have children". I deal with guilt about this often and on mothers and fathers day which is just another day for us childless adults I am reminded on that I am not ok for not having children.
I felt some relief at reading Wacky's post and some feeling of, you are ok on fathers day and frankly Ginger, I don't understand your defensive attitude and why you took it like Wacky was accusing you when she was clearly reaching out to the other childess people. And frankly, the ok feelings I had, well, you spoiled it for me.
i found this thread unusual especially on father's day.
when i read it, i thought about the greatest miracle God ever gave me in my life is my child.
i have always always wanted children. i wanted many children, but because of the way things worked out with the way ministry and my age, i have one. but i am so so so grateful i can't even express it. i have tears in my eyes just thinking about how lucky i am.
**
one person who did more for me than almost anyone was my great aunt. she was more than a grandmother to me. she never married and had no children. growing up i spent many weeks in the summer with her. she loved me so much my heart still aches. she always always admired my mother and said, "i don't know how your mother does it, she is a saint." i miss my great aunt terribly. i promised her i would take care of her when she got old and i didn't do it, another way thing. too painful.
**
if you can help nurture children who have parents that are messed up, what a great gift. there are so many that need role models.
**
i do treasure paw and mstar and pam (i'm sorry i have to go back to read who else is mentioned).
Perhaps my timing was in bad taste...but, then again...perhaps not.
I think your post made me feel like...not only is it ok for you and I not to have kids...but...it's even ok to feel it, and voice it on father's day...or mother's day...it doesn't matter. Feelings are feelings, and this is what came up for me today. Feelings have no boundaries, and no direction, and usually are always in poor timing
For those of you offended by this thread, it wasn't my intention...and if you feel the "Father's Day" thread should be pronounced, by all means...start posting in it, and bring it to the top. Let this one fall off the end of the page into oblivion...
Ginger, I wondered exactly why this was posted on Father's Day, too. To me it felt kinda like somebody saying, "Happy Halloween" on Christmas...sorta detracts from the whole point of the celebration.
I came to this thread because I thought I was going to find one of those deep and touching stories passed around emails. You know...a little boy really screwed up and ended up nearly killed...and his dad went off the wall at him and made a really stupid remark out of fear about how stupid the boy was...so, on the next Father's Day, the little boy, still stinging from that stupid remark the father probably had forgotten, gave his father an "UnParent Day" card...and then the father realized just how horrible he had been to the boy...
Guess I've learned not to judge a post by its title.
About...oh....40 years ago...I gave my dad a rose bush for Father's Day, which he planted right outside the kitchen bay window. I was daddy's "little girl"...so, when I went off to college and left the house for good, every Father's Day, when I'd call, or visit...the rose was in bloom. One big pink rose...and he would ALWAYS make mention of it...very proud of that rose.
Unknowingly, when I bought my house and started planting my gardens, I planted a pink rose outside my back door.
This morning, when I arose, and went out to feed the bunnies...I saw, consciously for the first time, that I had a rose bush there...and that today, of all days...there is ONE PINK SINGLE ROSE on it.
Perhaps I was thinking progeny today...dunno why I thought about being childless today...
It all started with my dad...and the pink rose he bloomed in my back yard.
i agree there is no wrong and right timing and place when feelings come out. i know that too well.
i think the way you expressed it, wacky, may have come across like there are so many parents who are sorry they had children so this is good not to have children
to be happy in your own life is wonderful, honest, but i took how you said it differently -- so many bad things about parents and how they feel about their children. i just wanted to speak as a parent and how i feel
wacky and hopeful and anyone else, i have never thought about a person being good or bad based on whether or not they are married or have children
the person's heart is what shines through and -- for me -- ginger's heart is pure gold
At first I too thought, "sheesh, what a snot-head".
But upon reading further posts I see how some of you have been bitten by others who place their value (and others') on how many children, and what gender they produce.
Sheesh, sounds like a few of them women that jumped Adios and Hope are in a competition to excellerate world hunger and overcrowding.
I believe I do see the intent of Wacky's post, and even though we may have had our own unforunate "spat" a year or two ago, I value HER as a PERSON, as well as everyone else here...more or less.
so as a Father of three with a vasectomy...HAPPY UN-PARENTS DAY!!
I noticed that I was mentioned in the original post…
I concur and appreciate Wacky’s, Garth’s and Hopefull’s posts.
Yesterday was father’s day. I received no cards or phone calls that acknowledged the holiday.
Sometimes I’m happy that I don’t have any children, at other time I wonder what it would be like to be a parent.
Of course I am the happiest that I have no kids, is when I am at the store (any and all), I see (and hear) the behavior of some children. That behavior, IMO goes beyond that the child should be punished, to the point that the parents should be punished for allowing the child to get to that point.
Wacky and others have brought up an interesting point that I will attempt to paraphrase…
Some parents have lost (if they ever had) their own identity (of course parents are not exclusive either). The identity for some is limited to being a parent, part of a group, having a title etc… Some can never go beyond those identities to being their own person. Some people need the safety of a “group”, because a group can offer a “sense” of belonging and/or being needed. Even if this group is an informal group called “parents”. I have noticed that parents love to talk about “parenting” with other parents.
Historically, Men have been identified with their jobs and Women have been identified as being “mommy”. For some, this may be all they want and/or need.
I think that being without children gives some an opportunity to develop their own identity.
This may sound very selfish, and perhaps it is…
Being without children give you the opportunity to expand your own horizons, develop your own interests, pursue your own goals, and do things that you enjoy.
Having children, you lose some the things mentioned above, for the simple reason, a good parent should have the needs of their child above some (if not most or all) personal needs. The health, safety, and protection of a child should be paramount in a parents thinking.
Recommended Posts
Wacky Funster
"Sorry you weren't loved enough...as a child"
Did I say that? I was very loved...
???
Ginger, no offense, but, as always, I could ????? Your whole reply...
Oy Vey
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CoolWaters
Wacky,
Just to let you know...I have never ever even thought, "If I were to do it all over again, I wouldn't have any."
What I have thought is, "If I were to do it all over again, I would NEVER listen to 'leadership' or anyone else who didn't have any kids."
Why? Because if someone doesn't live with a child day in and day, if someone hasn't invested their very breath into a child's well being, if the child is somebody else's....well, it's very, very, very, very easy to turn into the quintessential W C Fields type of person...and decide that kids are not worth the problems...and give bad advice from lack of experience....and manipulate parents with smug condescension about their lack of ability...so that parents end up trying to please the childless twig leader...or the childless branch leader...or the childless school teacher...or the childless social worker...or the childless legislator...
I congratulate people who have chosen not to have children just as much as I congratulate people who have chosen not to marry or not to own a home or not to do all of the other "American Dream" things...
But I do have to wonder about the truth behind the "choice" when people condescend towards those who have not made the same choice.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
AdiosMiCorazon
Dear Wacky,
I understand the whole being judged because you are childless thing. I know your frustration. Believe it or not, you are not spared because you have a child. I have a little girl. I have been berated by ignorant women that have three or more children because I do not want another child. As I sat there letting them get to me and feeling less of a woman, I wondered Gosh if they do this to me....I wonder what they do women who do not want any children. I cried on my husband's shoulder when I got home. It was very painful and til this day,I do not know why I let them get to me.
Not all parents expect others to care for their children. I have seen some parents act the way you described, but most of us are not that way.
The reason why parents talk about their kids when asked how are you? Is because they are our lives. Its a 24 hour 7 day a week gig. That I would not trade for the world. I know it is hard for those without kids to understand. Most of us can't imagine what our lives were like before we had kids.
I applaud you for working with kids. When I was motherless, I ran away from children. They gave me the creeps. . Boy has my life changed!
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wacky Funster
Geez...interesting responses.
I was "creating" a day for the rest of us, and somehow, it seems, a few of you feel attacked.
You know, Adios...it's almost like we can never be "good" enough. If you don't have any, why? If you "only" have one...that's not enough...If you have 4 people think you're crazy...yada yada yada
Seems to me, people just like looking for excuses to put other people down.
Never satisfied...never enough...or too much...or not good enough...
We want it bigger, brighter, better...and we want it NOW.
Live and let live is what I say ...we are such critics and judgers, aren't we?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GarthP2000
Hey Ginger,
You make good points, about the good parents that is. However, if you look at Wacky's post again, she's referring to the ones who either aren't the good parents, or the good ones who have had enough raising kids after theirs are grown.
True I'm not a parent, and I never had the experience of raising young'uns, but my mom related this to me as an example of the exception that many times challenges the 'norm' of which you speak.
When she (my mom) was little, she had an abusive father. I won't bore you with the personal details, but suffice it to illustrate, she never called him 'dad, only called him by his initials, "A.B.". That should give you a clue as to how low that boy went.
Anywho, she finally went off to live with her uncle, who wound up being devoted and an excellent 'father' to her. A.B. on the other hand, was totally irate as to this fact, and one day he went to, forceably if need be, take her back. A.B. thundered on as to the fact that he was her father and that he had the right to take her back, no questions asked. My great-uncle derisively retorted that A.B. was only her biological father, but it takes a real man, who is there for the child, takes care of the child, doesn't abuse the child, etc., who is the *real* 'daddy'. Hell, a dog could be a better 'father' than A.B. was.
And ya know, Ginger, there are *plenty* of examples that are similar to the one I gave here. Even examples of 'baby sitters' being better examples of parents than the alchoholic, and/or abusive, and/or 'devote their entire lives to their jobs/political cause/whatever', and/or "gotta make a big name for myself at the country club/PTA/whatever social event" biological ones.
"but, it doesn't make others who love their children clueless, nor ones without clued in"
Uhh, I believe that Wacky was referring to them being clueless as to how THEY were doing.
Actually, Wacky's post makes the case that there are more examples of not-so-loving parents than many folks feel comfortable knowing about.
Oh and by the way, Wacky would make an excellent mother *despite* what you said about her. Despite her not having the desire to have kids.
And it is a fact that there are parents who either look down on or are jealous of those of us who never had kids, and sometimes run off at the mouth about how we singles don't have as much capacity to love and care and yadayadayada, despite the all-too-many previous examples that clouds their side as well. Quite a bit of a selfish attitude there, y'think?
Please!
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GarthP2000
That attitude, as you can readily see by the posts that followed, comes both ways.
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wacky Funster
"They probably already have a day for that!
Someone could check a calender, like Hallmark, who'll make a card for any occasion...
I'm sure it isn't celebrated on Mother's Day or Father's Day ~ what would be the sense of it?????"
I'm curious to know why you even came into this thread?
What's the point?
It was to be a nice thread acknowledging people who made other choices.
You attitude doesn't shock me, but...why bother with it here?
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wacky Funster
Yeah....good idea
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GarthP2000
Frankly, Ginger, the main reason I posted what I did was in response to your rather bad taste derision of Wacky.
Maybe her timing was off, but her post wasn't derogatory by any means to the good parents of which you speak. She was trying to make a point re: from her observations. And simply because it didn't fit with yours, or your experience doesn't make it derogatory. Or as the saying goes, "If the shoe fits, wear it".
You know your parenting example, and how good it is. So there is no need to feel threatened by Wacky's post.
The only 'Hate Crime' (tongue planted firmly in cheek) Wacky is guilty of is bad timing.
So as the immortal Sgt. Hulka once said, "Lighten up, Frances!"
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
AdiosMiCorazon
Wacky,
When the above incident happened, I was at a dear friends house. Her little girl had her first communion and I was trying to help her entertain all her guest One lady just found out she was with child and she already had two. There was a lady with her second baby and then they ganged up on me. I have a ten (going on eleven) daughter who does not need me to change her diapers.
Anyway, later that month my dear friend invited my husband and I over for some vino, cheese and conversation. I found out that the preggos lady was very upset and did not want another child and that the one with the baby was in the same boat. Well! said I ....I guess they were taking their frustrations out on me. Be happy with where you are.
Garth,
Condesend? I hope you did not mean me. I must admit that when I first read Wacky posts, I was offended. I know she did not mean people like me and Ginger but, it still stung a little. (I do know that she did not intend to that) If I hadn't experienced the above, I probably would not have understood her frustration.
Bottom line the "haves" have one lifestyle that is rewarding and makes them happy. the "have nots" have a lifestyle that is rewarding and makes them happy. There are those in the "haves" and the "have nots" that are f*ked and are overall a pain in da b*tt!
Timing for unparents day? How about some time in July? The third Sunday? Is that good?
This is Dad's day. May they find a new grill or tools under the shade tree.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Hopefull
I was pleased to see Wacky's post because as a married person without children, I often have had to deal with feelings of inadeqecy about my childless state it and wondering if I am a selfish person.
I didn't read anything condescending about Wacky's post towards parents since I know her pretty well I can say that she and I both agree that being a parent is the worlds hardest job, And who, being a parent, in a public forum, would say anything negative about being a mom or dad? But since Wacky is a massage therapist it is likey that some worn out mommy or daddy might tell her what they would never tell anyone else.
I am fortunate to have some friends- couples- none that were in twi, that I socialize with several times a year. Two couples have one child and another on the way, (and one father who is 48 is not too happy about it) another just had their third child, another had their third but the first had died, one couple has one child, and another couple is desperate to have one and is undergoing artifical insemination etc.
I was the last of this group of become a couple- I have only been married since 9/98 --I was 38 and married a man I met in twi who is over 12 years my senior. We do not own a home, have no family here like my friends do, and do not forsee ever being able to stop working to raise a child. I am 42 now and he is 55- my husband does not want a child at this late time in his life. Plus he has been very ill in the past and could not work for year.
And you parents, please don't tell me I can and should still have a child because I have not reached menopause, I have had to defend myself against that many many many times.
I would have preferred to get married when I was younger and to have a child but things just didn't work out that they way for me. I am sometimes envious of my friends and their families and the fullness of their lives.
One of the greatest things about not being in twi is that I no longer have to deal with the "I'm ok, you are not ok" bs. This is the first time I have read a post from someone who said "it is ok not to have children". I deal with guilt about this often and on mothers and fathers day which is just another day for us childless adults I am reminded on that I am not ok for not having children.
I felt some relief at reading Wacky's post and some feeling of, you are ok on fathers day and frankly Ginger, I don't understand your defensive attitude and why you took it like Wacky was accusing you when she was clearly reaching out to the other childess people. And frankly, the ok feelings I had, well, you spoiled it for me.
Hopefull
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
i found this thread unusual especially on father's day.
when i read it, i thought about the greatest miracle God ever gave me in my life is my child.
i have always always wanted children. i wanted many children, but because of the way things worked out with the way ministry and my age, i have one. but i am so so so grateful i can't even express it. i have tears in my eyes just thinking about how lucky i am.
**
one person who did more for me than almost anyone was my great aunt. she was more than a grandmother to me. she never married and had no children. growing up i spent many weeks in the summer with her. she loved me so much my heart still aches. she always always admired my mother and said, "i don't know how your mother does it, she is a saint." i miss my great aunt terribly. i promised her i would take care of her when she got old and i didn't do it, another way thing. too painful.
**
if you can help nurture children who have parents that are messed up, what a great gift. there are so many that need role models.
**
i do treasure paw and mstar and pam (i'm sorry i have to go back to read who else is mentioned).
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wacky Funster
Your post made me cry.
(long pause)
Perhaps my timing was in bad taste...but, then again...perhaps not.
I think your post made me feel like...not only is it ok for you and I not to have kids...but...it's even ok to feel it, and voice it on father's day...or mother's day...it doesn't matter. Feelings are feelings, and this is what came up for me today. Feelings have no boundaries, and no direction, and usually are always in poor timing
For those of you offended by this thread, it wasn't my intention...and if you feel the "Father's Day" thread should be pronounced, by all means...start posting in it, and bring it to the top. Let this one fall off the end of the page into oblivion...
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CoolWaters
Garth, you made my point exactly.
Ginger, I wondered exactly why this was posted on Father's Day, too. To me it felt kinda like somebody saying, "Happy Halloween" on Christmas...sorta detracts from the whole point of the celebration.
I came to this thread because I thought I was going to find one of those deep and touching stories passed around emails. You know...a little boy really screwed up and ended up nearly killed...and his dad went off the wall at him and made a really stupid remark out of fear about how stupid the boy was...so, on the next Father's Day, the little boy, still stinging from that stupid remark the father probably had forgotten, gave his father an "UnParent Day" card...and then the father realized just how horrible he had been to the boy...
Guess I've learned not to judge a post by its title.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Wacky Funster
...here's one for you, I think you'll appreciate.
About...oh....40 years ago...I gave my dad a rose bush for Father's Day, which he planted right outside the kitchen bay window. I was daddy's "little girl"...so, when I went off to college and left the house for good, every Father's Day, when I'd call, or visit...the rose was in bloom. One big pink rose...and he would ALWAYS make mention of it...very proud of that rose.
Unknowingly, when I bought my house and started planting my gardens, I planted a pink rose outside my back door.
This morning, when I arose, and went out to feed the bunnies...I saw, consciously for the first time, that I had a rose bush there...and that today, of all days...there is ONE PINK SINGLE ROSE on it.
Perhaps I was thinking progeny today...dunno why I thought about being childless today...
It all started with my dad...and the pink rose he bloomed in my back yard.
Blame him.
There are no coincidences
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
i agree there is no wrong and right timing and place when feelings come out. i know that too well.
i think the way you expressed it, wacky, may have come across like there are so many parents who are sorry they had children so this is good not to have children
to be happy in your own life is wonderful, honest, but i took how you said it differently -- so many bad things about parents and how they feel about their children. i just wanted to speak as a parent and how i feel
wacky and hopeful and anyone else, i have never thought about a person being good or bad based on whether or not they are married or have children
the person's heart is what shines through and -- for me -- ginger's heart is pure gold
love, ex
Link to comment
Share on other sites
GarthP2000
... and so's Wacky's.
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
thank you garth and gingie and wacky
i'm starting a thread in a minute because of this thread
and i too want to say how beautiful i find your rose
edited: well, actually, i'm not starting a thread because of this one, i'm starting a thread because of gingie
[This message was edited by excathedra on June 16, 2002 at 12:42.]
Link to comment
Share on other sites
krys
Whacky:
I miss my parents too.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
CoolWaters
Wacky, thank you for sharing that with me. It adds depth to the discussion...and reveals a little more of you than before.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Invader Zim a.k.a Angry Monkey
At first I too thought, "sheesh, what a snot-head".
But upon reading further posts I see how some of you have been bitten by others who place their value (and others') on how many children, and what gender they produce.
Sheesh, sounds like a few of them women that jumped Adios and Hope are in a competition to excellerate world hunger and overcrowding.
I believe I do see the intent of Wacky's post, and even though we may have had our own unforunate "spat" a year or two ago, I value HER as a PERSON, as well as everyone else here...more or less.
so as a Father of three with a vasectomy...HAPPY UN-PARENTS DAY!!
Tony Krewson
Link to comment
Share on other sites
excathedra
why in the world did you get all 3 a vasectomy ?
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
yes happy everything to everyone
i can't believe the sheet people make people feel sheety about
i hope heaven is a nice place
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Steve!
Oh, UNPARENTS day.
Nebbermine. Sorry bout that.
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Zshot
I finally got around to reading this thread…
I noticed that I was mentioned in the original post…
I concur and appreciate Wacky’s, Garth’s and Hopefull’s posts.
Yesterday was father’s day. I received no cards or phone calls that acknowledged the holiday.
Sometimes I’m happy that I don’t have any children, at other time I wonder what it would be like to be a parent.
Of course I am the happiest that I have no kids, is when I am at the store (any and all), I see (and hear) the behavior of some children. That behavior, IMO goes beyond that the child should be punished, to the point that the parents should be punished for allowing the child to get to that point.
Wacky and others have brought up an interesting point that I will attempt to paraphrase…
Some parents have lost (if they ever had) their own identity (of course parents are not exclusive either). The identity for some is limited to being a parent, part of a group, having a title etc… Some can never go beyond those identities to being their own person. Some people need the safety of a “group”, because a group can offer a “sense” of belonging and/or being needed. Even if this group is an informal group called “parents”. I have noticed that parents love to talk about “parenting” with other parents.
Historically, Men have been identified with their jobs and Women have been identified as being “mommy”. For some, this may be all they want and/or need.
I think that being without children gives some an opportunity to develop their own identity.
This may sound very selfish, and perhaps it is…
Being without children give you the opportunity to expand your own horizons, develop your own interests, pursue your own goals, and do things that you enjoy.
Having children, you lose some the things mentioned above, for the simple reason, a good parent should have the needs of their child above some (if not most or all) personal needs. The health, safety, and protection of a child should be paramount in a parents thinking.
I might babble some more on this some other time…
Link to comment
Share on other sites
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.