[Pirate1974]

I'm curious.

Has anybody ever seen any actual, concrete evidence VP ever played basketball at any level? Anybody ever seen a picture of him in a basketball uniform or even holding a basketball?

I've been curious about this since I first sat through the class back in 1973, and he mentioned that he played professional basketball (or as he called it baska-ball.) Ever since then, I've tried to find any evidence of when and where he might have played, up to and including writing to the Basketball Hall of Fame in Springfield, Massachusetts, where they have records of everything going back to the day Dr. Naismith nailed up the first peach basket.

At the time, I wasn't trying to prove it wasn't true, just trying to find out the details.

Now with this modern miracle called the internet, you can research every professional basketball league that ever existed without bothering the Hall of Fame librarians.

Now before I spill the beans on what I've learned, I'm curious if anybody else knows any information beyond that one sentence in pfal and the "inventor of the hook shot" fairy tale.

[ToadFriend]

I have seen a picture of him as a young man wearing a basketball uniform ... it was in a fold out, light green brochure that was handed out to people during one of the anniversaries ... 35th, I think.

I did an internet search and found this: "In the late 1930’s Mission House had a star basketball player, a farm boy from Ohio, who went on to play with the Sheboygan Redskins in the NBL, predecessor to the NBA. He is probably more of a national figure today than any of his teammates or fellow alumni, but not because of his basketball prowess. He is the founder of The Way International."

TF

[excathedra]

where did you find that toadfriend ? link please

[dabobbada]

I never paid that much attention to his basketball bragging, but I do remember at the '83 or '84 ROA, VP had his college basketball coach on stage.

The way he talked, it seemed to me it was to prove he really did invent the hook shot and some of the other brag points he'd talked about.

[CM]

exc

google this

"Sheboygan Redskins in the NBL"

that's where it is

[johniam]

This isn't proof, but John Shroyer says his dad played against VP in HS

[dmiller]

quote:

The way he talked, it seemed to me it was to prove he really did invent the hook shot

Maybe, maybe not. He did master the *hook* though. -->

I too remember seeing him in the B-ball uniform at one of those way functions. Don't remember any caption that said he was a star-player, or anything like that though.

[dmiller]

quote:

 Many of us remember a college and seminary near Plymouth in Sheboygan County called "Mission House." These were schools of the Evangelical and Reformed Church. Today the place is known as Lakeland College. In the late 1930's Mission House had a star basketball player, a farm boy from Ohio, who went on to play with the Sheboygan Redskins in the NBL, predecessor to the NBA. He is probably more of a national figure today than any of his teammates or fellow alumni, but not because of his basketball prowess. He is the founder of The Way International.

      Victor Paul Wierwille heads a highly organized cult that makes much of having left the organized church. He may not realize that he is gnostic, but he is quite upfront with his gnostic approach. In Jesus Christ is Not God page 4, he writes: "We must define our terms. Many people may be misled because while using the same language or words, we don't mean the same things."

      His Way Corps Ambassadors, spreading the word over the World (WOW) are a wholesome appearing group who operate with a system of 385 Bible passages which reveal the way to "abundant living": healing, prophecy, tongues, power, overcoming fear.

From THIS SITE. -->

[GrouchoMarxJr]

Ah yes...the inventor of the hook shot. C'mon, nobody seriously believes that, do they? Karl K. covers Vic's basketball experiences in his book "The cult that snapped"...

Making up a story about inventing the hook shot is not so far fetched in the mind of someone who has stolen the works of other people and presented it as his own. It would seem that Wierwille's tall tales knew no bounds...he also claimed that Ray Kroc stole his idea for the MacDonalds chain and that God had shown him the third heaven and earth in a vision similar to John's, when he wrote the book of revelation...and who could forget the snow on the gas pumps...the stories that wierwille made up, reflect a very disturbed and insecure individual.

[simonzelotes]

I have checked with a few versions of the Basketball Encyclopedia in the past just for grins(I even looked up "Moonlight" Graham from "Field of Dreams" in the Baseball Encyclopedia)and there are stats and rosters of the Sheboygan Redskins of that era back when it was the NBL,or something like that,but I have never seen the name Wierwille as a member of that team...Maybe he meant that he invented the personal foul...

[Pirate1974]

Yeah, I've heard the Sheboygan Redskins story too.

Here's what I know about that:

The Sheboygan Redskins began play in 1938 and were members of the National Basketball League, which featured, among others besides the Redskins, the Akron Firestone Non-Skids, the Cleveland White Horses, the Toledo Jeeps and the Indianapolis Kautskys (?).

The NBL existed until 1949, when it merged with the Basketball Association of America to form the modern NBA. Sheboygan played one season in the new league before folding their tent permanently in 1950.

Now according to the Basketball Hall of Fame and the Association for Professional Basketball Research, nobody by the name of "Wierwille" ever played a game for Sheboygan, the NBL, or any other known professional basketball league going back to the very first one, the National Basket Ball League, which started in 1898.

There could be three possibilities for this situation:

1) VP was a member of the Redskins but he never played in a single game so there's no record of him. Possible but highly unlikely.

2) VP's professional basketball career is a crock. Surely not!!

3) VP played for the Redskins under an assumed name, not unusual in those pre-tv days when players sometimes played college basketball under one name and professional basketball under another. I understand he kept his marriage a secret so maybe he kept his basketball a secret at the time too.

Personally, I like #3, so, according to the official records, here is a list of every Sheboygan player from their first season, 1938-39, through 1941-42. A website called the Site for Sports Statistics, among others, has this information available.

Which one do you think might be VP incognito?

Sparky Adams
Ralph Amsden
George Blacklidge
Marv Colen
Kiernan Crowley
Ed Dancker
Charlie Epperson
Dick Evans
Moose Graf
Walter Grauman
George Hesik
Eddie Kolar
Otto Kolar
Les Kublic
Rube Lautenschlager
Slim Lonsdorf
Bill McDonald
Johnny Posewitz
Scoop Posewitz
Dave Quabius
Carl Roth
Pres Slack
Paul Sokody
Kenny Suesens
George Swanson
Jack Thornton
Stan Zadel
Babe Ziegenhorn

I'm kind of partial to Babe Ziegenhorn myself.

[GrouchoMarxJr]

...My guess is Slim Lonsdorf.

[HAPe4me]

It has to be Rube Lautenschlager. He stole his brother Reuben's first name and some schoolmate's German last name from the NK area.
~HAP

[dmiller]

My guess is Karl Barth errrr --- Carl Roth!! -->

[Mark Sanguinetti]

Pirate, if Wierwille's name is not listed then my choice for the above is #2.

[WordWolf]

Supposedly,
he studied all of Moody's courses and they have no record of him.

Supposedly,
he was on this basketball team and invented the hook shot,
and there's no record of him.

What can this mean?
Maybe he was good with aliases.
Maybe he was full of balloons.

[LG]

Wierwille got his BA at Mission House College in Sheboygan in 1938 so 1937-38 was probably his last season playing college basketball. The Sheboygan Redskins started up the next season. They likely tried out a lot of people, and possibly carried a few more people than they normally would. The stat site I looked at lists more people that year than in subsequent years.

I think Wierwille probably tried out for the team. He may even have been on the 1938-39 roster for a while, without playing in any games. That would be extremely unlikely with an established team, but not for a startup team in those days. Five people played in only one game each that season and two of them scored no points. One of those two became the 5th highest scorer the next season and the top scorer the season after that. If he got only a token appearance in one game that first season, then it seems quite possible for Wierwille to have been carried on the team for a while without getting any game time.

[lindyhopper]

lol GMJr.

Slim was the first name I thought of as well.

I guess that makes it established. -->

[hiway29]

Otto Kolar-

Maybe he took the name of his deceased brother, who was killed in a car accident. As VPW so revealingly states in "the way-living in love', he was killed by a black person, and he didn't like black people for many years after that. I wonder when (if) that changed.

[Sunesis]

When I was on staff at H.Q., I was at the local New Knoxville gun dealer one day (bet you guys didn't know there was one, he was fully licensed and ran it out of his home). I noticed a picture of him in high school with his basketball team. It was the senior class basketball team photo for the yearbook, except this was a blowup photo they all got as a keepsake. He knew I was with TWI.

I looked at the picture and he said, see if you can spot Vic there. I was very surprised. Turns out they were on the NK basketball team together - and there was VP in the photo. I asked him if I could borrow it and have our photography dept. make a copy - as VP would probably be thrilled to have a copy. He said o.k.

I had a copy made and sent it to VP - he was thrilled. The next time he saw me, he asked me to ask the guy if he remembered the names of the teammates. So, I returned the picture and the guy named the ones he could remember.

So, yes, VP did play high school basketball.