Conversations with Craig Ver 2

[GT]

Do you have anything to back up your thesis?

[T-Bone]

Freud posted April 16 2006 8:26 PM:

"Folks,

24 hours ago I didn't know this site existed nor was I aware that so many people had been deeply affected by a person who I met a few years ago. Here is my story...

A few years back....In a casual social situation I met a man named Craig Martindale. It was not a religious or work situation, just a casual social event attended by lots of other people. He asked me what I did for a living, when I told him, it became obvious that I had struck a nerve. It is important that confidentiality be maintained, so I will be vague, but some of my work centers around the various aspects of religious belief and the dynamics of cults and religious leaders. Craig was very interested in the topic and ended up in a long extended conversation on the issue. He mentioned that he had been active in a ministry and that he was a former pastor.

He was vague about his past and it was clear to me that something significant had occured in his life.

Over the next few years I had the opportunity to have several discussions with him regarding faith, reason, family, love and work. We avoided any serious discussion of his past ministry because it seemed to ellicit incredible sadness."

After reading Al Poole's post I went back to the Freud's initial post on the other thread - and bold-ed and red colored two items of note - so it makes me wonder If Freud's work centered around various aspects of religious beliefs, the dynamics of cults and religious leaders - then how come he never ran across Grease Spot Café up until April 16 2006?

Edited April 21, 2006 by T-Bone

[excathedra]

the only thing i got was he didn't know if he would encounter craig again

and then i think he said he's seeing him this weekend

?

why is it a secret where he works, freud ?

[sprawled out]

hey, al--could you be a little more vague?

[excathedra]

i thought he said he studied different kinds of cults than the way

[GT]

If Freud's work centered around various aspects of religious beliefs, the dynamics of cults and religious leaders - then how come he never ran across Grease Spot Café up until April 16 2006?

Because TWI is not a para-military cult?

Did he not state this was his area of interest?

Edited April 21, 2006 by GreasyTech

[MountainTopCO]

Freud vs Fraud

He is certainly not going to identify himself for obvious reason. However, he could list some of those many other message boards he posts on as Freud. We could look at his posts on the other boards and see if he is legit. Or he could tell us more about his area of expertise and some one that speaks psyco-bable could have a psyco-bable conversation with him and test his credentials.

If he is legit, God bless him maybe he could help Craig come clean and others get some closure.

If he is not legit, well I have heard of people who post on message boards as more then one person to give them selves support.

[Tom Strange]

After reading Al Poole's post I went back to the Freud's initial post on the other thread - and bold-ed and red colored two items of note - so it makes me wonder If Freud's work centered around various aspects of religious beliefs, the dynamics of cults and religious leaders - then how come he never ran across Grease Spot Café up until April 16 2006?

Here's how he responded when I asked him on the first "conversation" thread...

I'm kind of leaning this way as well... no offense Freud, but you mentioned in your first post that “some of my work centers around the various aspects of religious belief and the dynamics of cults and religious leaders.”

Then later you said “I have an interest in cult groups and dynamics that drive the leadership of such groups. It may seem suspicious that someone with this interest and background would by chance encounter a notorious cult leader..but that is exactly what has happened.”

And I guess I’m picking nits here, or maybe I just misunderstood… but first you referenced it as “some of your work” and the second time it was “an interest”… I suppose it could be work you are interested in, or an interest as well as your work…

I guess that’s not a big deal, I’m just a little leery here… mainly wondering how someone whose “work” or “interest” was the “dynamics of cults and religious leaders” didn’t already know about The Way International (TWI) or L Craig Martindale until accidentally stumbling on the material the other day…

As Satori said: “I hope you'll continue to post your thoughts and impressions. True or false, you have my attention.” I’m curious to see where this goes…

As you point out...interest and work are not mutually exclusive. I am vague...but not to be deceptive...but rather protective.

As far as knowing about TWI...well I must admit that my knowledge about it was pretty much ziltch...yes I had a distant recollection of the name...but nothing of substance.

My main focus has been on quasi-political cults with a passing interest in purely religious ones. I did a lot of research on the American Militia movement back in the early 90's...prior to the Waco debacle and the Oak City bombing. I have spoken extensively on the Michigan Milita and other para-military groups.

I have also spoken to several churches but my lectures concern various aspects of belief...not religious ideology. In addition I've been on Christian Radio stations discussing various aspects of belief and faith.

Anyhow....I'll be away from the 'puter for a few days...but I'll check back mid week.

Whoever LCM really is as a person...the folks here who have seen him in action over several years probably have a clearer picture of the man than the selective and filtered one that I have experienced.

I just thought that I would add my experiences into the arena of discussion. Take them and do what them whatever you will!

F

Edited April 21, 2006 by Tom Strange

[T-Bone]

Freud posted April 17 2006 3:48 AM

"As you point out...interest and work are not mutually exclusive. I am vague...but not to be deceptive...but rather protective.

As far as knowing about TWI...well I must admit that my knowledge about it was pretty much ziltch...yes I had a distant recollection of the name...but nothing of substance.

My main focus has been on quasi-political cults with a passing interest in purely religious ones. I did a lot of research on the American Militia movement back in the early 90's...prior to the Waco debacle and the Oak City bombing. I have spoken extensively on the Michigan Milita and other para-military groups.

I have also spoken to several churches but my lectures concern various aspects of belief...not religious ideology. In addition I've been on Christian Radio stations discussing various aspects of belief and faith.

Anyhow....I'll be away from the 'puter for a few days...but I'll check back mid week.

Whoever LCM really is as a person...the folks here who have seen him in action over several years probably have a clearer picture of the man than the selective and filtered one that I have experienced.

I just thought that I would add my experiences into the arena of discussion. Take them and do what them whatever you will!"

I'm sorry -I hate to be so nit picky - but if Freud has lectured at several churches and has been on Christian Radio stations - then why is he so secretive here? For protection? Did he appear at the churches with a brown paper bag over his head? Did he appear on the radio stations under an alias like Freud?...I'm not writing off Freud - I just find odd - that someone claims to have even a small interest in religious cults would say TWI never registered a serious blip on his radar.

Edited April 21, 2006 by T-Bone

[allan w.]

Maybe Freud is thinking along the lines of "if you don't want to believe it, your loss". That's how I would feel (except in stronger terms) !

At the end of the day really, who cares ? Craig is getting on with his life, you, me. Heck, even Sogwap sounds like she is carrying less 'baggage' than half of you. This is no more than 'passing interest' surely ?

You know, I know, we wont be talked, tricked, coerced, into ever going back. I just hope GS stays a place that welcomes people exiting twi.

[Goey]

I'm sorry -I hate to be so nit picky - but if Freud has lectured at several churches and has been on Christian Radio stations - then why is he so secretive here? For protection? Did he appear at the churches with a brown paper bag over his head? Did he appear on the radio stations under an alias like Freud?...

That's easy T-Bone

I don't think Craig is totally oblivious to GS. I imagine he still has some friends that look at GS and see these posts. If Fraud gave up his identity Craig would probably know about it pretty soon after. What then could happen the next time these 2 met? I can only speculate.

[jaylawt]

It wasn't so long ago that TWI was listed in TIME MAGAZINE as one of the top ten cults in America. I have to agree.....Freud is a fraud.

[waterbuffalo]

Goey, Al, T-bone, Ex10, and Tom thanks!

Edited April 21, 2006 by waterbuffalo

[Goey]

It wasn't so long ago that TWI was listed in TIME MAGAZINE as one of the top ten cults in America. I have to agree.....Freud is a fraud.

I doubt that TWI has been on anyone's Top 10 list for 15 years. What was the date of that article ?

Edited April 22, 2006 by Goey

[GT]

The Time magazine article was the early 70's.

I've never seen it. Why expect anyone else to have seen it?

[coolchef1248 @adelphia.net]

This poster isn't Freud.... it's FRAUD!

There's a certain xway that comes arouund every so often with a story.

Newest incarnation. Go back and reread the very first post in the first version.

But hey... look at all the rsponses!!! You're getting better.

sorryhow to hell do you know that!?

give the guy a break

imo he is very informative

[dmiller]

For those of you who think *Freud* is a *Fraud* --

Y'all should check out the chat-room more often. ;)

One person there know's he is *for real*, for sure.

I'll leave y'all to go Hmmmmm, and speculate.

Edited April 22, 2006 by dmiller

[jaylawt]

I doubt that TWI has been on anyone's Top 10 list for 15 years. What was the date of that article ?

There was another in the mid to late 90's used as an example for something at one of our WAP classes-it was current according to the BC, but who knows-in retrospect, he was a liar! Could've been a copy from the 70's or 80's but looked awefully new to me!

Edited April 22, 2006 by jaylawt

[Goey]

There was another in the mid to late 90's used as an example for something at one of our WAP classes-it was current according to the BC, but who knows-in retrospect, he was a liar! Could've been a copy from the 70's or 80's but looked awefully new to me!

Welcome to GS Jaylawt ....

So you are saying that you didn't actually see the article? OK.

The last one I know about from "Time" was in about 1971 or 72. Of course there could have been one that I missed. I was hoping you actually knew first hand. Time did do an expose on Scientology in the 90's. Maybe TWI got an honorable mention or something.

But TWI seems to have been off the Top 10 cult radar for quite some time. Thus my question.

Edited April 22, 2006 by Goey

[jaylawt]

Hey Goey,

The BC held it up and showed the entire class-don't remember his exact words but he led us to believe it was current-you know, the whloe attack of the adversary for our new classes type thing (don't remember exactly but that was the gist). This was around '96-'98 ish? Like I said, it could've been a preserved copy, but it looked like a new magazine from where I was sitting! Apologies if I'm wrong!

[WordWolf]

Last time I checked for references to twi in magazines was 1988, I believe.

I found 3 articles.

1) 1970 Life Magazine feature article, "the Groovy Christians of Rye".

Positive article.

2) 1971 Time Magazine short article on vpw.

Not precisely negative.

Includes a pic of him on a tourbike.

3) 1985(1986?) article in Christianity Today.

"Infighting Trims Branches at the Way International."

It was a page on the JAL/Dubovksy/et al split.

===========

Considering the tiny "blip" on the radar that translates into,

it's small wonder that the majority of US citizens have never heard

of twi, vpw, pfal, lcm, etc.

Edited April 22, 2006 by WordWolf

[see me]

Ummmmmmmm... about Freud NOT letting us know WHO he is ---- I feel 99% of you should not comment - you also keep yourself "secret"...

I put my real picture and email because I have no problem sharing "my perspective" (Because that is all I can share) And I want people in the ministry to KNOW who is giving out certain info so that they can see who it is coming from. I learned a lot from the Way (A lot of good and bad and how to make the best of life and MOVE ON!) I also like to show others that there is true happiness and PROSPERTIY after the way..... as my "signature states" I am happy to be me!

Thanks Freud for your Perspective.

[George Aar]

Well, you've found me out.

I've been hiding behind my personna of a fat, ugly, old, bald man long enough.

It's time to drop the facade and confess - I'm actually Rob Lowe.

There, I've said it...

[see me]

HAHAHAHHA YOU MAKE ME LAUGH! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[pawtucket]

Well for what it is worth, they are posting from the area that they claim to be.

IF they are not who they claim to be, time will tell that one.

BUT they should be allowed anonymity as is everyone else here, as they choose.