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I've been thinking about this record from Daniel.....

Daniel 2: (NKJV)
Nebuchadnezzar’s Dream
1 Now in the second year of Nebuchadnezzar’s reign, Nebuchadnezzar had dreams; and his spirit was so troubled that his sleep left him.
2 Then the king gave the command to call the magicians, the astrologers, the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans to tell the king his dreams. So they came and stood before the king.
3 And the king said to them, “I have had a dream, and my spirit is anxious to know the dream.”
4 Then the Chaldeans spoke to the king in Aramaic, “O king, live forever! Tell your servants the dream, and we will give the interpretation.”
5 The king answered and said to the Chaldeans, “My decision is firm: if you do not make known the dream to me, and its interpretation, you shall be cut in pieces, and your houses shall be made an ash heap.
6 However, if you tell the dream and its interpretation, you shall receive from me gifts, rewards, and great honor. Therefore tell me the dream and its interpretation.”
7 They answered again and said, “Let the king tell his servants the dream, and we will give its interpretation.”
8 The king answered and said, “I know for certain that you would gain time, because you see that my decision is firm:
9 if you do not make known the dream to me, there is only one decree for you! For you have agreed to speak lying and corrupt words before me till the time has changed. Therefore tell me the dream, and I shall know that you can give me its interpretation.”
10 The Chaldeans answered the king, and said, “There is not a man on earth who can tell the king’s matter; therefore no king, lord, or ruler has ever asked such things of any magician, astrologer, or Chaldean.
11 It is a difficult thing that the king requests, and there is no other who can tell it to the king except the gods, whose dwelling is not with flesh.”
12 For this reason the king was angry and very furious, and gave the command to destroy all the wise men of Babylon.
13 So the decree went out, and they began killing the wise men; and they sought Daniel and his companions, to kill them.

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Now I know that from this record folks go all kinds of places, liking to make snide comments about Nebuchadnezzar, the sooth-sayers, or go in any number of other directions with this.
I would like to focus on what I consider an amazing insight on Nebuchadnezzar's part.

Sheesh, the king had grown up in a culture where doubtlessly many fortune tellers, magicians, and prophets had been held in high esteem, and it seems to me that how he really felt about all of them became obvious here.

He doubtlessly knew that if he told them the dream that he would get any number of competing interpretations. He doubtlessly knew how well they could take his words and come up with something convincing, whether true or not. He was IMO fed up, and desperately wanted a true answer, even being willing to purge his entire kingdom of all the lying prophets and fortune teller types.

I really, really like his wisdom. And for the record, I have my secrets. Do you want to give me God's answer for my secrets, then tell me the secrets too. Depending on who you are when you fail will determine how I act though, but I'm not making any promises.

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I love this record too.....

2 Kings 5:
Naaman’s Leprosy Healed
1 Now Naaman, commander of the army of the king of Syria, was a great and honorable man in the eyes of his master, because by him the LORD had given victory to Syria. He was also a mighty man of valor, but a leper.
2 And the Syrians had gone out on raids, and had brought back captive a young girl from the land of Israel. She waited on Naaman’s wife.
3 Then she said to her mistress, “If only my master were with the prophet who is in Samaria! For he would heal him of his leprosy.”
4 And Naaman went in and told his master, saying, “Thus and thus said the girl who is from the land of Israel.”
5 Then the king of Syria said, “Go now, and I will send a letter to the king of Israel.”

9 Then Naaman went with his horses and chariot, and he stood at the door of Elisha’s house.
10 And Elisha sent a messenger to him, saying, “Go and wash in the Jordan seven times, and your flesh shall be restored to you, and you shall be clean.”
11 But Naaman became furious, and went away and said, “Indeed, I said to myself, ‘He will surely come out to me, and stand and call on the name of the LORD his God, and wave his hand over the place, and heal the leprosy.’
12 Are not the Abanah[a] and the Pharpar, the rivers of Damascus, better than all the waters of Israel? Could I not wash in them and be clean?” So he turned and went away in a rage.
13 And his servants came near and spoke to him, and said, “My father, if the prophet had told you to do something great, would you not have done it? How much more then, when he says to you, ‘Wash, and be clean’?”
14 So he went down and dipped seven times in the Jordan, according to the saying of the man of God; and his flesh was restored like the flesh of a little child, and he was clean.
15 And he returned to the man of God, he and all his aides, and came and stood before him; and he said, “Indeed, now I know that there is no God in all the earth, except in Israel; now therefore, please take a gift from your servant.”

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I love to consider Naaman. Here was this bigshot that had a huge problem. He was used to being treated as an important man. He was used to having his King's priests treat him with respect. He was used to a big show.

Elisha did not act like all the azzkissing sycophants he was used to, and he didn't actually treat him with disrespect either. Just told him to go wash in the river. And for the record I am not afraid to apply that analogy to us today in a figurative sense either.

I love it that God Himself proved the truth to Naaman.

FYI, it just so happens that sociopaths play people too, but in Naamnan's case there could be no doubt, HE WAS HEALED!

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Now,In this day and age shouldn't we heed these things......

2Tim 3:
13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.

Mark 13:
22For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform signs and miracles to deceive the elect—if that were possible.
23So be on your guard; I have told you everything ahead of time.

1John 2:
18Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come.

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IMO, it is soooo bad out and about that thinking or being taught we can not be fooled is probably evidence of being fooled already.

Shouldn't we become really, really good or at least try real hard to get it right this time?

KIDS IN CHURCH!
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3-year-old Reese:
'Our Father, Who does art in heaven,
Harold is His name.
Amen.'

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A little boy was overheard praying:
'Lord, if you can't make me a better boy, don't worry about it.
I'm having a real good time like I am.'


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After the christening of his baby brother in church,
Jason sobbed all the way home in the back seat of the car.
His father asked him three times what was wrong.
Finally, the boy replied,
'That preacher said he wanted us brought up in a Christian home,
and I wanted to stay with you guys.'


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One particular four-year-old prayed,
'And forgive us our trash baskets
as we forgive those who put trash in our baskets.'


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A Sunday school teacher asked her children as they
were on the way to church service ,
'And why is it necessary to be quiet in church?'
One bright little girl replied,
'Because people are sleeping.'


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A mother was preparing pancakes for her sons, Kevin 5, and Ryan 3
The boys began to argue over who would get the first pancake.
Their mother saw the opportunity for a moral lesson.
'If Jesus were sitting here, He would say,
'Let my brother have the first pancake, I can wait.'
Kevin turned to his younger brother and said,
'Ryan, you be Jesus!'


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A father was at the beach with his children
when the four-year-old son ran up to him,
grabbed his hand, and led him to the shore
where a seagull lay dead in the sand.
'Daddy, what happened to him?' the son asked.
'He died and went to Heaven,' the Dad replied..
The boy thought a moment and then said,
'Did God throw him back down?'
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Preliminary results from the post mortem examination of The Way International:

Patient shows some kind of cancerous infection and blindness going back to it's inception. Probably the result of innapropriate sexual contact, sociopathic and histrionic tendencies, obsessive cumpulsive disorder, and delusional tendencies.


In the course of the subject's growth the poisonous infections have manifested themselves in several overlapping and recurring symptoms including but not limited to:

Major structural problems being covered up by layers of lying,

Servile and useless behavior being substituted for truly talented and vital group and individual activity,

Leadership lying about every single aspect as concerning the truth of what they are/were up to,

Good people having their lives wrecked before being discarded as some kind of refuse,

Leadership's true brutality to be hidden behind several well entrenched layers of uniquely Way International meaningless religious cliches,

Complete inability to deal with honest criticism leading to the unfortunate tendency of them mistaking their disease fighting parts for the disease itself leading to the cancerous diseaes completly displacing the life giving functions,

The truth that they lead people about with now is dishonest not just simply so, but dishonest on many levels in almost every way.

These conditions led to an exreemely emaciated and wasting away reality while they console themselves with delusions of granduer.

The diseased parent organism sent out several diseased shoots in different directions varying as to the intentions and progression of the original cancerous diseases during the course of it's death throws.




COMPLETE DIAGNOSIS WILL NEED TO BE DONE BY THE CHIEF EXAMINER FOLLOWED SHORTLY BY THE BURNING OF THE DISEASED REMAINS.

(Last symptom was added in the editing function.)

Ok, lie upon lie, layer after layer.

Every time I think about getting started digging up the truth about The Way International I find a new layer of lies and spin stretching back over decades. I hesitate to make a list for fear it will never stop and many of you have seen more than me too!

Rosaline....... according to many credible reports lied about her involvement in and the extent of The Way's abusive sexual escapades; lies about her relationship with Donna M.; lies about a kinder and gentler Way while publically bemoaning the old days when they could more openly abuse the Wayfers; lies about the reasons for sending people away from HQ;......That's all I have now and I know I haven't even scratched the surface.

Geer.......Lied about Wierwille's activities and his part in them; lied about his own virtuosity to gain a larger following; lied about whatever the F was going on in Europe even blaming the lawyers for doing a good job;.....(I think the list would be shorter if I tried to list where he told the truth.)

Martindale.....Lied about the magnitude of his sexual escapades; lied about loving people; lied about the legitimacy of his supposed spiritual authority; lied about having a sound mind......

Wiewille.....LIED ABOUT HAVING A BETTER KNOWLEDGE OF GOD'S WORD TO TEACH THAN ANYONE SINCE THE FIRST CENTURY! Lied about being a lovingly fatherly/ grandfatherly man; lied about training people to be witnesses to the truth; lied about how it broke his heart to kick people out of the Way (after all, he threatened them and kicked them out to hide his own corruption)......

I'd call Wierwille the father of all the Way International lying, but that would be giving him too much credit. He was not the real father of lies, just a good son.


aaagghh, I can't edit the title, it should be "scheme"

THESE VERSES SPEAK OF "GATHERING TOGETHER":

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

John 11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

THESE VERSES REFER TO THE SAME THING IN THE GOSPELS:

Matthew 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire

Matthew 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

Matthew 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Luke 3:17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.

John 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

NOW, FROM THE EPISTLES:

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

2 Thessalonians 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,



Where does it say in the scriptures that these are different events, the gathering spoken of by our Lord in the gospels and the "gathering" referred to in the epistles? I have never found one prophet or apostle that has "SAID" they are different things.


As concerning our standing in the epistles.....
Do we not need to confess our sins to be cleansed by the blood and stay IN CHRIST?

2 Corinthians 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.



Do we need not to put away lies and hold on to a clear conscience to be fruitful?

1 Timothy 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

1 Timothy 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:

1 Timothy 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.

1 Timothy 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;


HEBREWS 6:
3 And this will we do , if God permit .
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened , and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come ,
6 If they shall fall away , to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh , and put him to an open shame .
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed , receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak .


(I THINK THE PROPER READING OF HEBREWS IS THAT EVERY WAYFER SHOULD THINK IT IS ADDRESSED TO HIM/HER. SERIOUSLY.)


HEBREWS10:
9 Then said he , Lo , I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool .
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified .
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before ,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say , his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised )
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching .
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye , shall he be thought worthy , who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified , an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said , Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense , saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.



According to Hebrews ch's 6 & 10, believing and being enlightened holds us more accountable before God than we were before we believed. And the consequences for deliberate wickedness...HOW ARE THEY ANY MORE OR LESS SEVERE THAN JESUS WARNED IN THE GOSPELS?


BOTH THE GOSPELS AND THE EPISTLES TEACH RESURRECTION, RIGHT?

And as far as the resurrection verses a TWI style gathering together.....

The epistles SAY resurrection.

The gospels teach of a GATHERING.

IN NEITHER GOSPELS OR EPISTLES DOES IT SAY THAT THE EVENTS OF GATHERING AND RESURRECTION ARE DIFFERENT!

So since the scriptures do NOT ACTUALLY SAY THEY ARE DIFFERENT it is left us to consider the matter.

But since I the scriptures in the epistles teach about the resurrection and do not say to look for anything different than what is already taught in the gospels nobody has the right to say that it is commanded by God to look for anything other than what the scriptures plainly teach.....RESURRECTION.

Once I saw this according to the scriptures it was a DUH moment for me that made it very simple to see that I was never correct in believing that Wierwille taught the Word like it hadn't been known since the first century.

The first century believers were taught the RESURRECTION and that the events of "gathering" were as the Lord had already taught in the gospels.

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection

John 5:
28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Philippians 3:10,11
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Small point, the resurrection is something Paul considered a goal, could it be when he wrote Philipians he considered it as not quite a done deal?


------Jesus said he gathers the wheat .................and the tares.
Jesus is the resurrection: of the just..................and the unjust.


Check this out if you will....The Mystery.

Romans ch8:
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off , and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast , thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off , that I might be graffed in .
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off , and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded , but fear :
21 For if God spared not the natural branches , take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell , severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off .
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in : for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits;that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in .
26 And so all Israel shall be saved : as it is written , There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer , and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

I think it is unwise to think that Paul hadn't understood our supposed mystery when he wrote Romans.

After reading these verses I conclude that as a gentile believer that Paul warns me to not think that I am in any way immune to what happened to the portion of Israel that has been blinded, albeit temporarily so. Heck he directly says that it is no problem to graft them back in again, even saying if we don't continue in His Goodness, "otherwise thou also shalt be cut off", pretty direct warning, yes?

And as concerning vs. 25, 26, & 27, ISN'T THIS THE EXACT SAME THING WE HAVE IN CHRIST? We appropriate Christ w/in the new covenant taking away our sin easy enough, heck, most people consider that truth as Christianity 101, but here Paul say THE EXACT SAME BLESSINGS ARE YET TO COME TO ISRAEL AS A WHOLE.


EPHESIANS 2:
11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Ephesians 3:
1For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
2If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:



Isn't Paul's ENTIRE point here that this mystery is that the Gentiles would be FELLOWHEIRS!

Christ's promises were there already, and just because most of Israel is presently blinded to Christ does not mean they weren't given the promise of his blessing already, heck, do we need to show the HUNDREDS of promises that were to Israel alone until it was made clear through Paul and others that the gentiles were to be brought into this blessing completely and fully.

The vail was tore between the gentiles and the court of Israel, right?

Israel was nigh and the gentiles far off, right?


And one more consideration, if Paul didn't want the Corinthians to actually look forward to their heavenly bodies without the resurrection then what was he doing teaching the believers about the resurrection soooo darn much?

38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him , and to every seed his own body.
39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men , another flesh of beasts , another of fishes, and another of birds.
40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
42 So also is the RESURRECTION of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.



To me, these verses make it plain to me that the proper application of earthly vs. heavenly/spiritual bodies is a reference to what we will recieve at the time of our resurrection.(vs. 46-49)

IMO here, the mystery Paul is refering to is that we won't all be dead at the time of the resurrection. I don't need to spiritualize it or paint a vast imaginary picture with the word mystery. he explained it to them right then and that PARTICULAR bit of insider info needn't remain a mystery to them anymore. To me the only mystery left is wondering why other than being misled would anybody insist this passage is not referring to the resurrection, it even says so. (SEE VS. 42)

To me, this topic represents a huge error in Wierwille's PFAL and puts the lie to his supposed calling.