chockfull

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/toPjST02Yg This thread talks about all the social advantages there are in being in a cult. Many “friends” easily accessible. This person talks about the JW app where they are connected to 500 people and are “friends” with 100 of them. Another insightful comment describes that as “forced connections with people whose real personalities are hidden under a facade”. I think many people trade their souls and morals for this fake connection. I certainly lost about 100 percent of those fake connections when I decided that the path of lifetime service to prop up “WOW” TM and self inflated nincompoops was not the best for my family. How many people disagree with the tenets of TWI but are too afraid to leave because of their “friends”???? Heres a tip. They are not your friends. They are less your friends than the neighbors on your street for the most part and than your average person in a community. Those ties aren’t worth the sacrifice. The juice is not worth the squeeze IMO.

If God intended every detail of Jesus life to be innerantly recorded, it is just much more logical that He would inspire the writings closer to their source in time not over 100 years later. I would postulate that the very nature of His inspiration on recording the history 100 years later would preclude it from being innerant and points to the literal mental gymnastics of fundamentalists being a waste of time and focused on their own goals not Gods. Then a focus on the Greek language which produced mathematicians not the Aramaic which is less precise in some ways of expression. So Fundamentalists always love mathematical sounding arguments and the Greek language accommodates this. Yes you can spend your whole life on this hamster wheel and yes that would be BATCRAP INSANE

VP started out with a class for helping others regardless of denomination better understand the Bible. When that failed to produce a narcissist level of attention and income he escalated to attacking the other denominations to make himself stand out. He did this on multiple fronts the biggest of which is the Holy Spirit field. To make that pill easier to swallow he spent a lot of time in harmony of the gospels endeavors, with the goal of making himself viewed as the sole authority in the field and all other Biblical scholars as untrustworthy. He himself was not that much of a detail man so he relegated the research detail to teams for Greek and Bernita Jess for Aramaic. He stole BG Leonard’s characters to spice up his class Johnny Jumpup and Maggie Muggins. He plagiarized through straight scribe copying at a motel he checked into for 10 days over 70% of JE Stiles book on the Holy Spirit field. He didn’t have a clue in most theological areas because he was a narcissist whose main interest was not in helping other people but in propping up himself as “The Doctor” a one phrase cult worship title indicating the sole authority on Biblical matters and “father in the Word” which is another scriptural acrobatic used to increase the worship and idolatry toward the person. This culture successfully embedded itself into Way International culture to the point of literally creating brazen images of VPW for every clergy desk and larger than life images created for teaching centers. This culture of idolatry and self serving focus has persisted to this day with the Way International isolating itself off from the rest of the body of Christ and worshipping its top leaders way beyond any Biblical instruction. At this point they are relegated mostly to foreign mission endeavors in 3rd world countries for the majority of the numbers today. Which brings the irony of VP full circle, as when he was leaving his denomination to start the cult, he wrote a paper criticizing the denomination’s foreign mission work calling it “cultural appropriation”. This attack on his denomination was found out to be a smoke screen thrown up as he was leaving timed to be just ahead of denominational sanctioning for having an affair with his secretary which had become known to his denominational elders. what happened between Gen 1:1 and 1:2? A whole lotta detail filled in mostly by imagination and mans goals.

The motorcycle and limited tours. Well by the 40th anniversary of TWI and the Living Victoriously teachings and extended hoopla around VPs retirement, the motorcycle would be of limited use. Historically there was an annual Harley ride at the ROA that was a photo op one time a year. VPs liver and corresponding health problems with cancer would mean that he would get little use out of a motorcycle at that stage in his life. He probably couldn’t handle a full day of riding or the road miles and the Mrs sat in that sidecar as little as humanly possible. Time magazine centered on that photo as a cult leader and the lavish gifts they receive. So a special gift for a museum is all that ever was to become. All the current decisions of the BOD seem targeted towards ignoring the outside world and getting back to nostalgia which was a rip off of the Jesus Revolution from the start. Ostrich management 101.

Yeah it was like a 40k Harley. I mean with that money you could pay cash to send a kid to college. So glad instead we could have 2 group bike rides with photos of VP looking like Hitler instead.

https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/wt8jz3TFOc Recent statistics are showing around 50% of returning Mormon missionaries are leaving the church. It seems the most devout adherents to the rules are among the ones leaving first. Those who go through motions for political gain are advancing in positions. What a testament to the long-term adverse effects of using another individual to expand your organization via free labor and outreach programs. Did I recognize these patterns in how TWI uses their “Wow” TM Ambassadors? Or “Way Ambassadors”? Or Way Corps pressured to “get a class together”? I did these programs. They isolated me from family and friends and re-enforced the cult values over individual goals. They lead to ever increasing commitment to an organization and protection of everyone and everything they represent regardless of how evil the impact is. There is long-term isolation from support groups and replacing them with more devout and controlling support groups. There is the grooming for higher programs always. In those programs there is the climbing over each other to obtain position and status. The ultimate end of this is the BOD who answer to nobody and are treated like gods. Don’t let your life be used for another’s political aspirations and control. Regardless of what group it is, what pitch they have, the results will always contain consequences.

I do remember the campaign supporting Hayes Gahagan and the Wake Up America push. If I’m not mistaken that led to a viable challenge of their tax exempt status in the 80s. I think for that reason they abandoned all efforts in that category. Because like all other cults, the “revelation” they receive seems to line up with the laws being passed in the lands they reside. Like the Mormons banning polygamy right after laws changed. Penny-ante dictators are only constrained by force, especially legal force.

With many of the forums I follow and Reddit channels those leaving cults have a high percentage that also depart from Christianity. You are among those. I do not dispute that the rules of GSC are open and I personally feel as a mod you are very accommodating to conversation even outside the rules boundaries. Many who are working through cult issues have fragility in their faith and some are going through various stages of what they term “shelf breaking”. I am also trying to be a little less direct and confrontational due to these elements. At times I do better than other times. We chase each other out of here at times by being unfiltered. Thanks for your efforts to keep this place alive and going. You deserve extra recognition for that.

Looks good - will watch - thank you!

It is interesting reading about the unfolding of historic events and GSCs involvement in them. I would note that TWIs tactics have changed over time. RFR was a technophobe and labeled technology as devilish and tried various tactics to shut down GSC. The current group has changed directions and embraced technology with multiple “positive only” scriptural sites and basically flooding the internet with as much info as possible so their followers never find this site. So with both tactics the BOD actions are obscured from the laymen they affect. The other side of the story remains valid exposing all of the BITE model control tactics used by TWI cult, and showing off the extreme ego of these leaders and their positions as they live a life with many servants attending to them while they abuse the laity ongoing. Get those volunteer workers going with all of the trademarked WOW activity put those classes together keep those hamsters running on the wheel happy and donating.

Thanks for stating it from a mod account that Christians and Christianity are welcome here. That would be one of the reasons active TWI folk would avoid it. And it gives rise to current leadership censoring us to their group also. Which they will do anyway but if we keep things open for discussion it will negate their BS. I would just take OS post as he doesn’t feel welcome here with a Christian view and he has his reasons. So hopefully focusing on the openness and not the lying or whatever other perception you are putting forth is better. I have two points. One is that this interaction is not personal and face to face. So it is semi real. It can have real elements. But it is not a real connection we have. That is due to the restricted nature of our knowing one another. Two I have my personal beliefs and do express them here. I have a personal connection I feel to Jesus Christ my Lord and Savior. People can label whatever their perception of me is in their head whatever they want. I’m not gonna get shaken by their ignorance and mistaken perceptions. I’m here on this site to help promote a healthy view towards Christianity that recognizes all who claim Jesus as Lord as part of the same body and each needing one another and having a function. I also recognize many faiths and beliefs here from denominations to philosophers to atheist or science based views. I recently got in a conversation with a Catholic going through confirmation about the Jesuit college and their views of faith and science. I feel that cultic Christianity, segmenting off from the body of Christ is harmful and leads towards other selfish goals not involved in Jesus message. That would include all cult groups from Scientology to the Christian cults - Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses, The Way International, and many splinters from that as well as other small groups. Each exhibits high control over members in thought, emotion, belief, and separates families and marriages with evil doctrine based upon compliance to leaders doctrine and ridiculous practices such as discouraging higher education and home and business ownership with an illogical and onerous interpretation of scripture related to debt. Stay out of the cults. If you love Jesus Christ then tune in and turn on as the Jesus Revolution says. If you don’t find your circle of those you can discuss high thoughts with and help each other be better in a world that gets worse. Peace

What I found in TWI is that so much was governed by unspoken rules so that people had to know these unspoken rules or face consequences. The politics side of that is one of those scenarios. You have little lemmings pulling up to little voting boxes and all pulling the same levers because that’s what good lemmings do. There was no diversity of opinion or thought. This is the biggest travesty - environments for producing Stepford robots with no propensity for freedom of thought or opinion. That describes the Ways vision of Christianity. Not a worldwide body of Christ composed of members in particular with different ideas and talents, but rather a uniform stamped copy of the perfect “believer” not Christian because that’s a bad word. They all vote the same way, hold the same opinions and it is all masked under what they call being “likeminded”. It is a mental hold on people starting with “the class” and driving towards “likemindedness” And all of it is unspoken from stages to avoid the threat of paying taxes on earnings.

Thx for the note from an experienced perspective. Maybe it’s a phenomenon with the grass being greener on the other side and the lack of options we have here that’s influencing my feelings on that front. I guess our choices are crooked party backroom deals and insurrection. Politics is messy. Thx mods for bending rhe rules to accommodate a civil conversation that discusses government and politics as related to TWI.

Ok so before this gets banned out of the gate let me set the framework. In the US of A, sometimes otherwise referred to as ‘Murica, we have a two party political system. Some other free republics also have this construct. I personally would prefer a four viable party system so that we have more options and aren’t restricted to a Tweedledee vs Tweedledum choice in geriatric medicine like we are currently. However, while I was in TWI I totally noticed a complete affiliation that was unspoken to a single political party. This was all done hush-hush and never from a stage or teaching platform. Why? Political affiliations would ruin a non-profit tax status and be grounds to disqualify TWI. I remember being on staff at TWI and the undercurrent of “suggestion” which is ever present was to get out and vote for our preferred political party. Why does TWI present a complete falsehood to our government that they are politically unbiased? How can they get away with it without losing tax exempt status? Mods this isn’t a political discussion so consider merits before ban hammering it. It is not presenting a one party opinion but discussing the attachments politically of a cult.

Yes I have a relative living at one. It’s a bit like the TWI staff. Very controlled and patrolled environment with respect to what can and can’t be said. Mostly carpentry and production for Watchtower. Education is discouraged as Jesus is coming back any minute now. They have Bethels in many countries. It is a high honor among them to live and work there. The next governing body comes from Bethel workers and the succession to those positions. Saying “I was a Bethelite” among JW gives them advanced status in a group.