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Episode 8 - Dr John Juedes Part 1 Transcript |
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Page 2 of 6
Dr. Juedes: Hmm!
Pawtucket: I remember when we got together back in, I want to say ’86
or so when you showed me all the different editions, the deception that
Wierwille had done where I spent a day out at your house and that had
just a tremendous impact on my life and I’ve been forever thankful for
that. (Laughs) I remember I was still smoking at the time and I went
hours - I don’t know if you’ve ever smoked, but smokers just, an hour
or two and that’s about the limit - and I remember going about four or
five hours and didn’t even really think about it for a long time and
then I finally snuck outside and had a cigarette. It was a great time.
Dr. Juedes: That’s a good sign.
Pawtucket: Yeah. For the audience, please pronounce your name. I’ve heard people pronounce it all sorts of different ways.
Dr. Juedes: Well, I pronounce it different ways too. If I don’t know
someone, I call it ‘Judes,’ because it’s easiest to figure out. The
pronunciation from the old country, German is “Yee-dis” where j’s sound
like y’s, like in ‘Yo–Hahn Bock’ (Johann Bach), you know, so if I know
someone I’m gonna call myself that and if I don’t know someone very
well then I say ‘Judes,’ so flip the coin.
Pawtucket: OK. Good. I was reading today. I wanted a quote that you
had. I think this was one of the earlier articles that you did with
Personal Freedom Outreach. The “What To Do Now That I’ve Left” and you
got into a section of “Where Do I Go From Here?” And you said, “Some
people have retreated into whatever religion or lifestyle they had
before taking Power For Abundant Living, others are producing near
clones of The Way Ministry that seem like a sequel to a B-movie. Two
attempts are Pacific West Fellowship with Steve Sann and American
Fellowship Services which eventually became CES with John Lynn. Of
course, they claim that they’re not like The Way International
churches, but they do intend to publish books, periodicals and
articles, to provide a network of fellowships, and traveling teachers,
and be ecumenical and educational. AFS assures us it will be different
from The Way, it will produce Christian study, not biblical research,
such as John Lynn’s 12-session class, Keys to Victorious Living. Does
that sound a lot different to you?”
And then in parentheses, “Stay tuned. We may yet see the organizations
appoint trustees, ordain clergy, open a leadership training program,
etc.” How right you were! I think one of the things that I’ve noticed
over the years is how people went from one, you know, what’s that
thing, out of the pot and into the fire, where they just immediately
went with one of these clone groups and now, 15-20 years later we’re
seeing almost identical things are happening. What do you usually give
as advice when, ‘cause you know, it’s a tough thing because you get
this stuff drilled into you and you begin to think that it’s actually
right and all of a sudden they’ve left, but they have no foundation, no
place to go.
Dr. Juedes: The hardest thing to me is I hear from people who have left
The Way, sometimes very recently, but more commonly it’s people who
left 20 years ago, 25 years ago. Now why are they contacting me 25
years after they leave the group? It indicates that there was a real
deep wounding that happened, and a real something that imprinted not
just their mind, but their heart and their spirit too, where they’re
carrying things after all these years. You wouldn’t find, for
instance, someone who left the Episcopalian church or something 25
years ago. And here, checking and reading in detail on a web site and
other things unless they’d had that happen. So that tells me that it
isn’t just a matter of the teaching that’s been different or trying to
understand, even. It’s something they’re processing in their heart
more than in their mind. And that’s much more difficult to deal with
and a lot of my web site has to do with facts and things and that’s a
starting point. But I hope that the facts are causing some kind of a
change of heart as well.
As people read the articles I write too, a lot respond to it very
emotionally. How could you, you know, even say anything negative about
The Man of God. The Teacher? You know, How could you say negatives
about this group in which I learned a lot from the Word? You know?
There’s a reaction to it that goes beyond just understanding. You
know, if you read some fact of mathematics or science you wouldn’t have
this emotional connection, but with The Way there definitely is that.
There’s a spiritual problem, you know, spiritual need that underlies a
lot of that. So I try to recognize that and I think people who have,
you know, corresponded with me, have a little different impression of
me afterward than before. To some degree, the writings impress them as
negative or strident, I don’t really see them that way, but I guess in
some ways they are, and in my personal dealings with people it’s a
little more emotional, a little bit more pastoral, I try to be, because
it’s not just a problem of the mind, it’s a problem of the heart.
Pawtucket: Right.
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Last Updated ( Monday, 05 February 2007 )
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