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Episode 8 - Dr John Juedes Part 2 Transcript
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This is the transcript of Part 2 of my interview with Dr. Juedes.  We talk about the CES Crisis.

GSRadio Interview 8 with John Juedes Part 2

Pawtucket: OK, now we’re going to talk a little bit about the CES and Spirit in Truth Fellowship.  Over the past 7 or 8 months that I’ve kind of heard about it, although I’ve heard rumblings of this for a few years, there’s been a thing called personal prophecy which I have always found very odd.  It could have biblical basis, but what they were doing with it didn’t seem to.  When it was brought to light what was going on I made GreaseSpot available to let people read what was happening and also air their concerns, differences, and get them to see what was going on.  One thing that I’ve noticed since I’ve been reading this stuff, and it hit me a few nights ago when I had read a letter that someone had sent me, all the concern was about the Board of Directors, the clergy, and I went in and read John Lynn’s letter that he wrote on the 26th and he addressed all sorts of issues that had to do with the Board, with the prophecy, with the clergy, the disagreements and things like that, but there was no real addressing of the followers, the innocent parties, I guess, would be the best way to put it.  The people that have looked up to these 10 or 12 people for guidance and that and then suddenly finding out that the guidance was not what they thought it was.

Dr. Juedes:  Yeah, I think part of what you’re talking about comes from a legacy from The Way in that they are very much organization focused.  You know, not really on the people, but on doing the research, doing the publishing, selling the classes, you know, the Way Ambassador idea of witnessing was primarily recruiting people to buy the class and I think that’s carried over to a great degree into what CES has done and I can see that in your comments just a moment ago is that the organization is the focus to a great degree.  And you know people certainly are going to be affected by this as you mentioned, because people tend to follow the way of their leaders or are influenced by them and some of the facts of the controversy or crisis have come up and people see their leaders doing different things.  In some cases they see some of them as being apathetic towards what has been going on, as not being able to reconcile.  If you think your leaders, who are supposed to be more spiritually advanced, aren’t able to reconcile with each other, who are locked in power struggles, you know, how can they lead us, you know and our fellowships be locked in power struggles or in our families or something like that.  If they see what they see as bickering among the leadership, as you know, being a big part of how they relate to each other, you know, what kind of example is that?  Or using spiritual things to manipulate others.  Now these are some real deep issues and people’s spiritual lives and their emotional lives are affected by that just to see the leaders do it or to sense there’s no help in this leadership as this is something that they’d become wrapped up in.  So there’s a lot of fallout from that.  It isn’t always apparent unless the person actually shares that, shares how it troubles them and, you know, leadership, especially in a large organization isn’t likely to hear a lot of that, directly anyway, even though it exists out there, a lot of people are unaware of that and probably so much the more in someplace like CES or any splinter group in which you know, people, in many cases, their relationships go back to when they were in The Way, you know, so it’s not just a face on a television screen or a voice on the tape.  I mean, they know a lot of these people.  I think it has all the more effect since they have that personal knowledge or personal tie at some time in the past anyway.
Pawtucket: Yeah, it’s astounded me.  As I read some of the comments that people made and the e-mails that I have gotten and things like that, I was brought back to when I went to see you, back in ’86 , ’87, and I know that one of the things that happens is you get to when you’ve learned all about the deception and things like that, you suddenly get to this point where you all of a sudden realize that you feel kind of empty.  You all of a sudden realize that maybe you trusted too much in your leadership and not enough in God and a relationship with Jesus Christ and I know for me when I think of that moment that I had, I believe it was just before I went to see you, you know, it was a point where I was virtually hopeless, I mean, in the truest sense of that word, and wondered where to go from there, and I think some of that stuff has happened, from what I’ve been reading from people and talking with people, is happening here – that all of a sudden they realized that as they start to see the pieces put together, that they realize that there is manipulation, there is control, and particularly taking something like prophecy and utilizing it to do, in my opinion, unspeakable things, to you know, we know of one marriage that was ended because of it.