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When I first came out as atheist, I started a thread you can probably still find here called "Are you more moral than Yahweh?" It took a look at a number of questionable OT positions (and I think one or two NT, but mostly OT) that are inconsistent with a God who is the author of morality. But if you are to take the position that morality is objective (spoiler alert, it's not) and that certain moral standards are absolute (like rape among humans is always wrong and the victim is the person who was raped), then you have to conclude that the God of the Old Testament is frankly not moral. Is it moral to prescribe the death penalty for picking up sticks between dusk Friday and dusk Saturday? No. Of course not. But Yahweh (allegedly) did that. It's sociopathic! "But it was another time." SO WHAT!?!?! So what you're describing here is a clash between what the Bible actually says about Yahweh (and by extension Jesus) and your own understanding of what actual morality is. And then you have to defend your own morality against the (absolutely and demonstrably false) premise that there is no such thing as morality without Yahweh because he is where we get morality from. HE MOST CERTAINLY IS NOT. Morality does not come from religion. Religion comes from morality. And it is not "objective," which is why our culture rejects a slew of Old Testament pronouncements as immoral. We may have once thought, incorrectly, that eating shellfish or mixing fabrics was immoral. We know better today.

According to Genesis 1-3, God creates a paradise and many different kinds of awesome life and everything is perfect. What a great God He is. Then everything is corrupted because of one single act of two humans (one who was deceived and the other who followed suit). All mankind has now become evil and worthy of death and is therefore in need of redemption. Now there are wars, murders, rapes, natural disasters, genocides, dreadful diseases and disorders of mind and body, hatred, lusts, etc. - SO MUCH pain and suffering century after century which God knew would happen because of Adam and Eve's disobedience. Why was such a cruel and severe punishment so necessary? All of this is explained away by saying “a loving God gave Adam and Eve free will,” so everything is their fault – not God’s. I now call that statement into question because God was GOD and so much GREATER than them: - God was incapable of doing evil, but Adam and Eve were created capable of doing evil. - God had foreknowledge of all that would happen if sin entered the world, but Adam and Eve were only told of “their death.” Who was in a greater and more powerful position to have the responsibility of the whole world placed on their shoulders – God or Adam and Eve? Yet God placed it on humans. I used to think this was how highly God thought of the perfect man He created, and they just went and blew it. Now, I’m thinking they were doomed from the beginning to fail.

It was late August of 2012 when I confronted myself about my wavering faith. I was coming to terms with my sister's impending death (from ALS) and my son's autism diagnosis. A lot of people don't believe me, but those two issues did not lead me to doubt God. Rather, they exposed the doubt that was already in my heart. How? I remember asking people to pray for my sister, but I don't remember asking to pray for her healing. And not once did I pray for my son's deliverance from autism. Just for strategies and help coping. That's how I remember it, anyway. I could be mistaken. But I do know at some point in both those experiences, the notion of a miracle was not seriously entertained. I think one of the things people don't understand about losing faith is that it's not a decision. It's never one thing. It's a realization. Over a great deal of time I realized I was not praying the way I used to. Years of asking for something and getting nothing taught me to ask for nothing. The long, slow realization about the nature of the Bible could not be overcome. And, as a straw that broke the camel's back, my search for evidence that first century believers in a position to know for a fact that Jesus was raised went to their deaths rather than renounce that faith... turned up not a solitary shred of supporting evidence. I finally realized there was no longer any belief that I held that could qualify me as a Christian. I had to sort through my thoughts and feelings. Reject God outright? No, I would have to know EVERYTHING to know that (spoiler alert: that's bulls#!t). So I told myself I was agnostic. Then I realized that being agnostic is not incompatible with being atheist. One is a "lack of knowledge" claim. The other is a "lack of belief" claim. You could be both. Most atheists are. I eventually came to the conclusion that the agnostic/atheist dichotomy was not a discussion worth having. Most people don't subscribe to it, and you end up sounding defensive for no reason. When it comes to the existence of any god worth discussing, I am an atheist. Period. When it comes to the existence of some abstract concept of gotchagod, I'm agnostic, but only to the extent that such a god defies definition and testable attributes. Why am I not agnostic? Because Yawheh is a fictional character whose attributes changed over time according to what his creators needed for storytelling purposes, much like Superman and Captain America. He had a wife once. Israel went from recognizing many gods, of whom Yahweh was fiercely jealous, to acknowledging only one, which mad His jealousy wildly irrational. All those other gods? Oh, they didn't exist. Or they were demonstrations of Satan's power. Except Satan is an imaginary character too, whose attributes are comically vague. He bad. No good things. Accuser. Needs Yahweh's permission to murder Job's family. And Yahweh GRANTS IT. What the bloody... Anyway, back from THAT tangent. So now it's been 10 years. Now and then I feel an urge to explore some facet of what I once believed. Not often. For example, I believe the 12 are largely fictional characters. Not all of them. Peter, James and John were real. Judas was a fake. Paul (who certainly existed) refers to Jesus being seen of "the 12" not because Judas was still alive after the crucifixion, but because the story of his betrayal had not been made up yet. But they're just mental exercises at this point. My main concern with religion is that government stays out of its way and that it stays out of government's way. I guess we can say it's not a phase.

I don't think there is a scripture that mentions five days. It's arbitrary, like one or two days. The implication is that one or two days of survival is enough to get the slave owner off the hook, after that (five days, two weeks...), if the slave dies from the wounds, well, too bad -- the only loss is the slave owner's money. Only need to ensure your sex slave survives one or two days.

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Glowwry! Isn't that wuuuunderful?

There is wisdom in the Bible, for sure. There are ideas worth contemplating, meditating on. There are beautiful turns of phrase, poetry. But It's not the only contemplative book of wisdom, ancient or modern, worth reading.

Yeah, well, mogadishu rafa calamari peshwari naan. I would that you all SIT as much as I do. He said Jesus sits at the right hand of God. God is sitting next to his seated son, Jesus. Neither needs to stop working at any time. They can work while sitting. Neither requires rest because neither gets tired, probably because they are sitting. Though God and Christ are absent, take comfort in knowing that they are sitting down

I look forward to Raf's answer, but I just want to say, what if you're right? Consider letting go of this sinister, manipulative dilemma. This is possible: The freedom, the liberty, to look clearly at anything, unencumbered by forgone conclusions and beleefs.

I know I know I know. Ok Johnny Jumpup tell us. So Moses was like in the middle of translating these messages in his head down to hieroglyphics enscribed on animal skins. Then just as he was finishing up 1:1 and moving on to 1:2 his scribe died of colon cancer. He said whatamigonnado? So unlike Joseph Smith who said screw the golden tablets I’m gonna stick my face in a hat and make up some BS, Moses was true to the vision and eventually replaced the scribe and continued on writing Genesis 1:2. Oh you mean the time between the events described in the verses? Well just about anything could happen. Some unknown centuries later a flim flam artist from Ohio filled it in with all sorts of imaginative drama. And then his successor not a bright man took even further liberties with imagined stories in Genesis. Genesis has all sorts of cool stuff in it. Giants. People living 700 years. Human sacrifice. Incest. But these guys needed their own flair to make $$$$. Snow in July. White and black heart visions. Conspiracy theory. And strange sex. Gen 1:1 and 1:2 has a gap in it where cult leaders designed screen doors for submarines.

Not interested in the video, but interested in sharing my thoughts on any questions you have about your journey. For instance, I would caution very much against allowing your faith to be undermined by whatever challenges your children or grandchildren are facing. My journey from faith coincided with the autism diagnosis of my son and the illness and death of my sister from ALS. To this day I struggle to explain to people that the coincidence of timing was just that, a coincidence. They think I'm angry at God for allowing my son to have autism or my sister to die. The truth is my rejection of faith had a lot more to do with the paucity of evidence for the claims of and about the first century church. Gonna stop here because I see a lot of posts have gone up since I started replying to the thread, so let me read them before I answer. But you are far from alone, Charity. I've walked this walk. Happy to discuss.

Thanks for the replies. Growing up in this cult really did a number on me. I was afraid to ask questions and instead of thinkign that was not OK, I thought I was being decieved by Satan and it was him who was putting the questions in my mind. Think about being 9 years old and thinkign Satan himself is weaponizing your thoughts as a way to attack the Way. It's soul crushing. I just wanted the devil to leave me alone. In reality the devil had no interest in me at all. ugh

https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/toPjST02Yg This thread talks about all the social advantages there are in being in a cult. Many “friends” easily accessible. This person talks about the JW app where they are connected to 500 people and are “friends” with 100 of them. Another insightful comment describes that as “forced connections with people whose real personalities are hidden under a facade”. I think many people trade their souls and morals for this fake connection. I certainly lost about 100 percent of those fake connections when I decided that the path of lifetime service to prop up “WOW” TM and self inflated nincompoops was not the best for my family. How many people disagree with the tenets of TWI but are too afraid to leave because of their “friends”???? Heres a tip. They are not your friends. They are less your friends than the neighbors on your street for the most part and than your average person in a community. Those ties aren’t worth the sacrifice. The juice is not worth the squeeze IMO.