Leaderboard

Yes - - it was originally advertised and promoted as a re-filming for a "new and improved with a modern look to it" class for us to peddle to the masses. I also was there (I almost put the word "also" after the word "there" instead of "I", but caught myself in time in order to be correct according to Bullinger and the proper placement of the word "also"), and it was evident after just the first few minutes of session 1 - - that things were not going as planned. Docvic tried to recite all the lines verbatim from the original class, and he failed completely. The folks who were all attending PFAL 77, were staying in student dorms there on campus. We were all put into twigs according to our housing assignments and once the disaster of Day 1/ Session 1 of the event took place, it didn't take long at all for our twig leader to tell us that "things had changed" and that this class was no longer a re-filming to make over the class for all to see - - but that it was "just for us". I look back on that nowadays and think B as in B and S as in S - - but back then I bought the story hook, line, and sinker, even after seeing Docvic's PAINFUL attempt trying to "teach" that first day. My memory isn't as good as it was 30 years ago, but that there is what I remember of the "re-making" of PFAL in '77. P.S. - - In each of our dorm rooms there was a Jade plant for us to take home, along with a 35th anniversary commemorative plate. The Jade plant supposedly signifies longevity. Well -- I brought mine home after the class, and it died long ago (just like my affiliation with twi). But I do still have the 35th anniversary plate. Does anyone want it??

another thought to add to the passage Rocky brought up In Matthew 18, Jesus Christ tells us there’s a whole lot more to forgiveness than just granting some kind of clemency to those who’ve wronged us - because that will frustrate the reconciliation process - which is the whole point of forgiveness anyway if you think about it. 15 “Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ 17 And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector....Matthew 18:15-17 I think even Ephesians 4:26 may be related to this: BE ANGRY, AND yet DO NOT SIN; do not let the sun go down on your anger, In other words - use the energy of your anger to work things out between you and someone else - rather than let it build up inside you - like carrying a grudge, growing resentment, etc. In my experience I’ve found that just forgiving someone who has wronged me rather than trying the reconciliation process of Matthew 18 has many times left me feeling frustrated and bitter and the wrongdoer doesn’t have a clue of the harm they have done and probably doesn’t see the need to change their ways.

The problem with these passages, is that you presented them as something you believe others should do. Have you ever considered that being more concerned with whether others are conducting themselves out of love, or being loving, or doing things lovingly (etc.) than what you yourself measure up to that standard ... may not be what the scriptures are getting at? Matthew 7:1 Do not judge, or you too will be judged. Just a thought.

rrobs, you're welcome to go and speak to my sister. Exemplary Christian that she is, she lets me know that I am a vile and unforgivable person because, it seems, I called her a name when we were both little kids, thereby totally ruining her entire life. I'm talking 50 years or more ago.

good point Skyrider and that reminds me of one PFAL ‘77 session when he was going over one of his wooden phrases “things equal to the same thing are equal to each other” - when suddenly “rev” Bob M jumps up in the balcony (we were seated near him) - cups his hands around his mouth megaphone-style and yells “the transitive property of equality”...I can’t remember the reaction of wierwille on stage because I was awe struck - or maybe aghast - that someone in the class would call out while “doctor” was teaching. This goes to show you the students knew the material better than the “teacher” - if you want to call him that...he11, he couldn’t even be a substitute teacher...he would be the last resort if you’re short handed on substitute teachers - so you get the doofus who makes copies in the admin’s office figuring maybe he’ll at least be able to parrot some of the material that he copied and wing it to fill in the rest.

Now that you mention it........I do remember that. "Things had changed" and this class was *just for us*..............TRANSLATION: Wierwille was not able to teach a LIVE CLASS. He didn't have a grasp of the scripture and materials that he had long plagiarized thru the years, nor did he function well under pressure. With cameras and lights and students in the room, wierwille couldn't have his Drambuie and drink it too. So, when wierwille eliminated the pressure of re-filming this LIVE for generations to come all the a/v pressures, camera angles and class parameters were diminished ...........and vpw could then, again, sip his Drambuie-coffee while sitting at his desk "teaching the class." And further ......by 1977, things were a'changing in twi...........THAT'S FOR SURE.

Humans evolved from non-human animals. These creatures evolved mechanisms for survival. Including instinctive reactions to various situations. A common example is that of snakes. Humans are born with some fear of snakes because their non-human ancestors adapted and evolved to fear snakes. That fear has not be selectively removed from the population. Ancient humans did not understand why this was, modern humans do. It would be logical for ancient humans to use the snake as a symbol of evil, since it felt right and so many others would have agreed that seems to be right. The Bible is a unique collection of writings which are an effort by ancient humans to express the murky truths written in our DNA.

I'm just kind of trying to soak this thread in. It casts a rather wide net (either that, or I don't get the point). So here's my journey, in a nutshell: I thought TWI had it right. I thought Wierwille had it right. Not because some voice in his office made him a promise or sent him a snowstorm in early October. I actually didn't know that story. I thought he had it right because of the stream of logic (including the many flaws therein that I failed to recognize at the time). But a lot of what happened here at GSC forced me to let go of the framework I had built up to stave off criticisms of the Bible. I think most of us have that framework in common, at least at some point in our lives. What we chose to do with it is individual, but we're here on this site because we accepted TWI's assertions at one point. You know what I'm talking about: there are no errors or contradictions. The first century church had it right, got corrupted, and we've been dealing with the repercussions ever since. The apostles all fit in a Honda. (They were of one accord. Get it?) Then came the great James debate, and my holier-than-thou effort to reconcile Galatians and James against certain people's determination to yank James from the canon. I gave it my best, but in retrospect I feel I fell short. My premise was wrong. Galatians and James do contradict each other. A lot. They don't even agree on fundamental terminology. They use the same words to mean different things. Reconciling them is exhausting work precisely because James and Paul are not just discussing different topics, but they are doing so in a way that establishes neither of them truly grasps the other's point. I finally realized that there are... contradictions? No, I preferred to call them paradoxes: two ideas that coexisted even while seeming to contradict each other. We are saved by grace. We are saved by works. It depends on what you mean by saved, grace and works. And then came the Actual Errors thread: the notion that Wierwille's writings were God-breathed was contradicted by a simple application of Wierwille's definition of God-breathed to his works. Wierwille's books could not be God-breathed if they did not meet the criteria his books set for what God-breathed means! Blah blah blah. And then someone pointed out, hey Raf, using that logic, you can't establish that the Bible is God-breathed! And that turns out to be true, using the same logic. The only way out was to use a different logic: The Bible could still be God-breathed if Wierwille was wrong about what God-breathed means, what characteristics a God-breathed document would exhibit. So now I'm looking at the Bible as a collection of writings by people who did not always agree with each other. Some other things became clear later on: Paul all but calls the author of Luke a flat-out liar. Whoever wrote Mark was barely familiar with the geography of Palestine. Job... JOB! This story could not be literally true unless God was unspeakably capricious and cruel. Who among you would compensate a man who lost his dog by giving him a new dog? Yet God compensates Job with a new wife and children. What-what-WHAT? Does God know everything? Did He know from before the dawn of time that I would scratch my left forearm as I typed this post on Nov. 9, 2017? And not only does he know everything that will happen, he knows everything that WOULD have happened had we all made different choices about everything? Do you have any idea how many contingencies (parallel universes) each person would trigger on an average day by choosing one thing over another? God knows ALL those contingencies? [Yes, I posted before I finished my thought. You didn't really want me to drone on and on, did you? We all know where this story ends...]

For those readers who have not yet subscribed to Penworks's blog, part two of her interview is now up on the American Studies blog.

Rocky, thanks for the link!!

Yes appreciate you Charlene!