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What's Missing from Power for Abundant Living and The Way of Abundance and Power? https://youtu.be/aM8uzzPVe1s description: Something very important is missing from Victor Paul Wierwille's Power for Abundant Living and The Way International's The Way of Abundance and Power classes.

That’s funny and scary – since it’s on a thread discussing best horror and Halloween movies…imagine right in the middle of a Dracula movie, the vampire-hunter turns to the camera, holds up a fancy bejeweled cross and says “I buy all my crucifixes at Saint Alphonsus’ Catholic Supply House at 3645 Main Street ”.

Their retirement accounts, of course!

Advances the illusion that Wierwille/Martindale/Rosie had a valid and legitimate model for advancing godliness but just somehow made a mistake along the way and didn't know how to right the ship. I don't believe that's what happened either in the beginning or at any time in the course of the cult's history. The social accountability was bass-ackward from the start. The model in the book of Acts seems to have been having leaders be servants of and to the followers. TWI, from the start seemed to make the followers believe that they should treat the "leaders" like gods. That's why everywhere veepee and Loy went, branch and limb leaders collected extra cash from twigs/leaves to buy exorbitant gifts and collected the prettiest young women to present for the pleasure of the MOG. That, to me (NOW) is so obviously at the core of the corruption of the organization's culture. All bow down. To Wierwille be the glory. That's not what they said, but it IS what they did.

I remember when it was forbidden to use ABS funds to buy postage ....to send your ABS funds to HQ.

That's outrageous, JCS. First, even taking a little money for ice creams - then taking more for private use for a car radio - on the field, people weren't allowed to dip into the ABS even to provide refreshments for the PFAL class, not that milk, coffee and a little cake or cookies cost a lot. Your mother sounds like she not only drank the kool-aid but wallowed in it too. I pray her head is in a better place now.

A fantasy ministry, apparently.

And to think some of the Ar$ewipes are now starting 'same $hit diffen't day ministry' at Restoration and revival (including my bro-in-law)...hmmnnn...what are they 'reviving' I wonder ?!

LOL yes I did mean adulterous. Autocorrect strikes again. I was out WOW when I walked into a certain Reverend fooling round with a 19 year old woman. I told my friend and he had seen them too. The Rev's wife was upstairs and Rev was in his office with his secretary, a new PFAL grad, "working on a teaching". I then found out from the child of this leader that this had been going on for a while. I sat on that information for a while. A few weeks later, that leader took the teen fellowship out for ice cream "his treat". He had me go to his office and grab some of the ABS to pay for the ice cream. I was taken aback when he told me to "grab a few hundred dollars". There were like 5 of us. We didn't need that much money for ice cream. When I went to get the money, the horn of plenty was not where he said it would be so I looked around and opened his desk and found marijuana and polaroid's of the secretary, nude. After taking us out, he made a stop at Radio Shack and used the money to buy a car stereo. I couldn't deal with it anymore. Shortly after LCM came to the region for a meeting and my friend and I asked if we could speak to him. He said "yes". We told him what I just told you and he said "who the F do you think you are? You think God doesn't tell me what's going on? You think I don't know my calling? I don't see a 'reverend' in front of your name you fat little f***ot." He was an inch from my face screaming at the top of his lungs. I was terrified. Then he told my mother, who gave me a beating and told her we are lucky he is letting us stay in the corps. I was 16. That was the beginning of the end for me. That summer was the Passing of a Patriarch. That was my last Rock. My mother was mad at me for months because I quit going to twig. Then was the truth started to trickle out she came around and we volunteered to DFAC. She herself was a victim of sexual assault by VPW, yet she thought I was making it up. How's that for brainwashed?

Hi WordWolf, I have thought more about that letter and that time and what you guys have said in response to my post, thanks. . I myself was pretty much sheltered from the fallout , but it must have been horrible for everybody in the way corps. Easy for me to look back from 35 years distance and think about what if, maybe, and (my personal favorite) shoulda coulda woulda. But today, I am so grateful that was then and this is now.

Exactly what I started to figure out when I decided to leave. "wait a minute...we are paying to work AND getting reproved by very angry leaders who cheat on their wives. WHAT THE..." You should have been there when a friend and I went to Craig to let him know we had "discovered" an adulatory and theft problem among some leaders. I thought he was going to punch me.

Hello, Grace and Mercy! Sadly, releasing POP back then would have accomplished little of worth. The document, if true, details vpw complaining about how twi was tossing him aside the way he'd tossed aside so many before that. So, with lcm- vpw drone 1- neglecting vpw, vpw went to cg- vpw drone 2, who soaked up everything with fervent vpw worship. So, vpw ranted about how the leadership, in forsaking vpw, the broken cistern of twi's doctrine and practice, were destroying twi. He made a bunch of predictions that ALL failed to come to pass. (It shouldn't surprise anyone that he was a false prophet by now.) He claimed they'd done wrong- but never gave any specifics because there WERE no specifics. So, POP went on for 40 pages yet lacked substance. I go on but say something, but POP goes on and says nothing.

Some misguided soul in Belize seems to have put this together. Must have taken some work. Pity the author didn't spend that amount of time doing something useful - personal Bible study, for example. Or reading this website.

Welcome to Grease Spot, Grace and Mercy ! I love your comprehensive and expressive story – thanks for sharing. You’re right, there were a lot of good folks trying to walk with God and serve others – and your last line “That the organization still exists is a wonder to me” made me re-think the upheaval of 1986 after the reading of The Passing of the Patriarch. A common analogy on Grease Spot often draws a comparison to some dedicated folks rearranging the deck chairs on the sinking Titanic. But in actuality this TWI-tanic never sank. So the survivors got off and returned to the real world to resume normal lives and the ship of fools remains adrift in an ocean of cultic nonsense. Another thing that got me was you mentioning a redacted version of the passing of the patriarch in TWI’s bookstore. That made me think of the Seinfeld episode where Elaine supposedly yada yada’d over the best part - click here > Elaine did not yada yada over the best part

The whole SP thing was yet another scam. SPs were supposed to provide for your funding and everything else. It was "godly" to support people through their Corps training. And some people who could better have used the money to support their families did help sponsor in-rez corps through the training indoctrination. A lot of money was paid for the training, which included of course the accommodation (free to TWI, they owned the land and buildings) and food (at minimal cost, since they grew quite a bit of it). But the cost for the training... it wasn't training. Your mother shouldn't have touched money that was your compensation. It should have been held in trust for you with two trustees (she'd be one). Maybe you could sue your mom to try and get the money back, if she has any assets, but that'd trash forever any relationship you have. I suppose what you really want is an acknowledgement and a sincere apology. Whether you ever get that will depend on how deeply indoctrinated she remains, after all this time.

It's hard to accept that reality. But you're right. Those of us who grew up in TWI, we didn't join. We were dragged along and then left when we got older, so it's really hard to see how this could even happen. It's hard to let go, it's hard to know how to handle this, who to be mad at, if anyone. But I saw plenty of terrible abuses, thefts and lies in TWI so why am I surprised? I know this, TWI didn't care where that money came from as long as the pyramid scheme kept the money rolling in and the vulnerable people were there for them to take advantage of.

TWI was able to influence your mother to use funds to pay for her corpse training that was not hers. She stole your rightful money. It amazes me how low TWI could get parents to stoop to. Somehow they loose all sense of right and wrong in order to follow The Man of God.

It's true. I completely lost sight of Jesus in my Way years. Big concept of God, and who God is. Lost concept of Jesus, and who he is. TWAP. Haha. That's funny, so close to ... a word that might get changed if I write it. T at the end. The Way of Abasement and Powerlessness. That'll do.

One of the most liberating things when I left TWI was the realization the Sh1t Happens.

Hi Annio… …what a courageous and honest post !!! …somehow I missed this thread - so I just wanted to add my 2 cents now… You got me thinking about a few of ways that a double standard played out in TWI. A double standard is a set of principles that applies differently and usually more rigorously to one group of people than to another group. One aspect of the double standard in TWI is the misogynistic tendencies as you mentioned. In the bigger picture as we all know, this is something not just confined to TWI – but at least in the outside world there have been some brave survivors coming forth and things like the me too movement to raise awareness and empathy and to advocate changes to laws and policies. I don’t ever see that happening in TWI. Another aspect of TWI’s double standard that you and others have touched upon is the role that gender plays in determining one’s “status” within the group and how others should relate to them. Again this is not something peculiar to TWI… “Some believe that differences in the way men and women are perceived and treated is a function of social norms, thus indicating a double standard. One claim is that a double standard exists in society's judgment of women's and men's sexual conduct. Research has found that casual sexual activity is regarded as more acceptable for men than for women” from Wikipedia - double standard And perhaps a third aspect of the double standard in TWI is a more general application of religious-grade hypocrisy – how cult leaders exercise control over followers…see Matthew 23 and II Peter 2 . Those passages lead me to believe maybe the problem isn’t always with a particular doctrine but rather how TWI puts it into practice – and even further, to what degree they enforce compliance. “Doctrine is a codification of beliefs or a body of teachings or instructions, taught principles or positions, as the essence of teachings in a given branch of knowledge or in a belief system. Practice is the actual application or use of an idea, belief, or method, as opposed to theories relating to it.” From Quora - what is the difference between doctrine and practice In my opinion there’s one big thing that sets apart an abusive religious cult like TWI from other groups. It’s not really about the sixteen thousandth teaching of “You Are Righteous Now” - although I do tend to think some teachings like that can squelch one’s conscience when genuine repentance might be a more appropriate topic. The telltale signs of an abusive and controlling cult are the methods and tactics they employ to instill and reinforce certain ideas and attitudes. I don’t believe the average Way-believer who has never seen anything more than the local fellowship, can really “appreciate” the intense indoctrination process of the way corps program. I thought it was going to be a college-level education in the Bible and shepherding the flock - you know, maybe along the lines of a seminary only much better cuz it was all based on "The Word" - - and I've even heard some corps refer to it as something like the school of the prophets mentioned in the Old Testament I Samuel 19 II Kings 2 and II Kings 4 (some translations refer to them as the school of the prophets, a group of prophets, the company of prophets, or sons of the prophets ) ... But it was more along the lines of a glorified PFAL catechism – with the student body being corralled to think in terms of predetermined questions and answers – - what does it say in PFAL about this or that? we were drilled to know all the material of PFAL frontwards and backwards...we were often randomly called upon to give 5 minute teachings during one of the three meals in the dining room - and then we were critiqued right on the spot afterward; fyi - the teachings that quoted verbatim - with very little deviation - from one of the PFAL books received the highest praise and little or no criticism - I $hit you not! Among other things what really “helped me absorb” this "doctrine" was the sleep deprivation, the work program (cheap labor - often busy-work and usually a big time-waster), the occasional tongue-lashing , being singled out for public ridicule over some minor infraction - after all details are important to God - - and the ever popular threat to throw your a$$ out the door if you didn’t comply with some directive. What is the point of all that? I’ll tell you - in case you didn’t click on the above link to Matthew 23 – I’ll quote verse 15 of it here “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.” ....I think ideally the way corps program was designed to make little clones of wierwille. On a side note – if I felt compelled to address doctrine - the biggest issue I have with TWI’s fundamentalist point of view is that it is more than just your typical strict literal interpretation of the Bible (and brushing aside any dubious teachings like the 4 crucified, the unforgiveable sin = being born again of the wrong seed, etc.) TWI’s brand of fundamentalism is also infused with magical thinking which is the belief that unrelated events are causally connected despite the absence of any plausible causal link between them, particularly as a result of supernatural effects – “the law of believing” comes to mind. Another thing you mentioned Annio, at the end of your post really resonated with me. You reflected on the good stuff you got out of your TWI experience. I think that’s a healthy way to deal with life. To NOT paint everything in broad strokes - but to think more deeply about experiences - to learn from mistakes and failures and to cherish any wins. I met my wife in TWI – besides meeting a lot of good people - and that’s where I first learned to enjoy reading the Bible. It makes me think of the duality of life – which is made up of so many different and sometimes opposite elements. That’s reality. One of the many reasons why life in the way corps was often an uphill battle for me was the heavy-handed pressure from top leadership to ignore or even deny reality. I was never salaried by TWI – so my wife and I worked regular jobs ( besides all the responsibilities we had of running a branch or area, running classes and coordinating advances, witnessing, under-shepherding, getting teachings together, counseling, visiting Twigs all over town…and in different towns…with a kid in tow ) and we made our money stretch a long way for the cost of living…sometimes coming up short since we had it drummed into our heads as corps that abundant sharing was the highest priority when budgeting finances. Over the course of some 34 years since I left TWI, I’ve learned that acceptance of reality is a lot easier than a denial of reality. Back in the day, I wasted more time and energy spinning my wheels listening to teachings on believing, making positive affirmations, conjuring up believing images of victory to try and make something happen. I’m not saying be a pushover in life. Acceptance takes some guts to acknowledge what I cannot change or what is beyond my control - but also to step up to the plate when I can do something that’s within my power. Acceptance is how we look at ourselves and others. And rather than have hostility or fear toward someone who is different from me – though I sometimes falter at that – I think it’s better to be tolerant – even open and honest to find common ground – and yes, I still have a long way to go on that one too. Acceptance is being at peace with my own imperfections and failures and not beating myself up every time I fail or disappoint myself. I think what goes along with that is to be thankful for the ordinary things in life – I’ve got a roof over my head, I have food in the pantry, I have a family and friends who accept me as I am - warts and all. I think that stuff keeps me grounded. *** bonus feature on the duality of life: Skyrider started a thread a while back - cult survivors and the duality of life ***

VPW said it. That settles it. I don't believe it.

You know why I come here? To be judged by people who don't know who we are, why we're here, what motivates us. I love being called bitter by a total stranger making a blanket statement in a drive by post. Welcome to Greasespot, Your Honor.

People it has been like 30 years since most of this stuff went down what the hell are you people doing here still discussing VPW and the rest [I noticed you "necro'd" a thread inactive more than a decade, just to say your peace on a long-dead discussion. If you cared about the subject, 30 years would be no barrier to you. But people were hurt, people died, and people are processing all the information NOW to get their healing and move on. Last of all, new people hear about twi, and they come here to learn about it- then steer clear. We help people by discussing all of this.] I see someone here mentioned this a place for healing - you are kidding right [Just as diabetes medication doesn't help someone who doesn't have diabetes, perhaps the help here is not useful to you- but it can mean life-or-death to another. You can choose to respect that and just let things run their course.] Ralph damn man revengence is mine dairy the Lord (why am I quoting scripture to you Oh My Gosh !!!) you have swallowed the bitter pill and I know you will just rationalize some argument to show I am wrong remember the scripture whatsoever things are pure of good report etc of course you do [Alexander the coopersmith did me much evil- The Lord reward him according to his works. There's warning about evildoers in Scripture. It's not all just shiny "sing Kumbayah and ignore those seeking to harm the flock."] damn you make me angry and VERY sad thwre is still time brother forgive forgive forgive the warning has been sounded long ago! [And it still needs sounding, as long as twi and its clones still exist. People are still arriving and seeking answers-and getting them. This allows them to heal, grow, and get on with their lives.] you are no helping anyone most of all Christ by continuing in this manner [Hundreds of people have posted to say the opposite. We don't know the numbers of those who never signed up to do that- but we know there have been plenty.] peace out

/> Yo Don't Worry – hey you and Waysider must have set your posts on simmer mode (the ones I quoted in post # 16) cuz I could not stop thinking about them until something finally did boil over – and so here's a few thoughts. Waysider said "When you believe for something, you become an active participant by dwelling on the desired outcome. You self delude with mental fixation (camera analogy)…" a very sharp analysis and accurate depiction of practicing TWI's law of believing - in my opinion; and then on the heels of that Don't Worry said – "…It was more of a demanded obsession to accomplish an impossible mission.......e.g. make God do what I want or think I need." I think that just shows you how incongruent the TWI mindset can be. I mean, make up your mind! Are you pulling it off or is God pulling it off? On the one hand, you're going through all the drills to believe for something (positive confessions, believing images of victory, listening to teachings on believing, speaking in tongues for it, praying in your understanding for it, yada, yada, yada). While at the same time you keep reminding yourself God is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think – so we keep asking and thinking about what we want. We keep pestering God about it while going through our believing "disciplines" and with this vague notion that is how it's all supposed to work. I almost think it goes along the lines of how the lottery works. I keep buying more and more lottery tickets because that will increase my chances of winning the jackpot. I mean what's a few positive confessions here and there, spending a little time visualizing, doing a few word studies on "faith", etc. – a "small investment" really - compared to winning the jackpot – what I've been believing for all along. Maybe that's the "pattern" magical thinking sees that Rocky talked about in the opening post. I vaguely remember some comic's routine – that he was not going to teach his son about nonsense like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny – but rather explain to him how everything worked in the real world. When his kid asked how computers work (the dad being computer illiterate) simply responded with one word "magic." While in TWI, with my "naïve understanding" of the practical application of PFAL in the real world I guess you could say the a priori of PFAL was magic too…and the world is all going to hell in an Easter Basket too /> . All the "gimmicks" we practiced were a model of believing that was suggested by VP and company – they sounded technical like some scientific formula: believing equals receiving, confession of belief equals receipt of confession, preparation is the highest form of believing, etc. I don't know – is that something like the "vain repetitions" Jesus talked about in Matthew 6 ? He said the heathens think that is how their requests will be heard. Jesus went on to say your heavenly Father already knows what you need even before you ask…interesting how that dovetails into the Lord's Prayer – which of course VP "critiqued" in PFAL as something not applicable in our day and time and hour…or administration…whichever interpretation is preferred in your belief system. Oh my - /> Thinking about all this stuff last night - one of the biggies of VP's sales pitch on the law of believing popped up in my memory; in the orange book, Power For Abundant Living, in chapter four Believing: Faith and Fear, on page 44, VP wrote: "What one fears will surely come to pass. It is a law. Have you ever heard about people who set the time of their death? When somebody says, "Well, this time next year I will not be here," if you are a betting man, bet your money; you are going to win. If a person makes up his mind that this time next year he is going to be dead, God would have to change the laws of the universe for the person not to be accommodated." Every so often I get on this kick of finding something in the Bible that contradicts PFAL - /> - so what came to mind on this was the record in I Kings 19 – the prophet Elijah utterly despondent over Jezebel's murdering all the prophets, sets the time of his own death for the next day (verse 2), travels a day's journey into the wilderness – he then asks to die – even saying to the Lord "take away my life." Read the rest of the account – instead of God supposedly forced to allow some "law" of the universe to accommodate Elijah's death wish, God sends an angel to get him fed and strengthened for another journey to an experience that would encourage him greatly....totally turned his attitude around and he was able to continue his ministry….uhm…in case you hadn't noticed Elijah didn't get his death wish.

With TWI's focus on abundance as well, I thought this youtube video by JP Sears about The Law of Attraction has some good points as well. If you accept that The Law of Attraction and The Law of Believing are essentially the same thing.