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There's no doubt the internal reward system appears hijacked. Being motivated in abnormal ways. I assume that's dopamine. And if you're not engaged in normal pursuits and achieving worthwhile goals the heaviness of some of the meetings, like face melting, rants, witness absolute BS to complete strangers, . . . . adrenaline The Twig face, the cult smile . . . something is misfiring.

It's an insatiable yearning for stretched coffee.

Yeah, that kind of makes me run out the door and never want to hear those words again. Not the strength and power I was picturing in my mind.

The renewed mind is still the key. Widely imitated, never duplicated.

A brief timeout to answer this question, which I overlooked when it was originally posted. It is correct that I put no credence in scripture as far as its truthfulness. It would be incorrect to say I don't think there is any coherent message to be found in its pages. I believe the Bible teaches what it teaches. Sometimes it's contradictory. Often it's not. But in any event, I think one can look at the Bible fairly and come to a conclusion about what it teaches, even without believing it. I believe in a very real, tangible way that the Bible teaches an absent Christ and that the Word is the only thing that takes the place of the absent Christ in a manner outside the subjective control of someone claiming to experience him. That I believe it's a bunch of hooey is rather besides the point, as OldSkool correctly noted in the remainder of the post I just quoted. To wit: [Emphasis mine] If you can't see my point scripturally, then I have failed to communicate it. If you don't agree with my point, fine by me. I'm not exactly disagreeing with yours. In doctrinal, I tend not to challenge the authority of scripture (now and then, as an aside, but not generally). This forum is trying to get at what the Bible actually teaches. That's what I tried to get at. That I don't believe it anymore has no bearing on what it teaches.

Yes this is his creative name for what is otherwise known in the Christian world as “commentaries”. ”Commentaries” are among all the other writings about the Bible in VPs collection that he took to the trash from his statement to “focus on the Word exclusively”. Apparently the 3 “commentaries” or writings about “the Word” he retained were the works of Kenyon, Bullinger, Stiles, and Leonard. Those he copied pretty literally and exactly. This is a flim flam snake oil magic trick to mask VPs ego in the “commentary”. See? It’s not VP interpreting the verse but only how the verse tells you to interpret itself. Removing the “teacher” and magically looking like you found his translation right there by obvious choice.

VPW was hard to listen to, impossible to read, and he had a very punchable face. Charismatic he was not. I attribute his "success" to the drug culture of the 60s.

It's all a facade. Like flats in a stage production.

I was stuck in a phony college at Rome City for 2 years…man, that was a close shave.

VPW invented problems that were not real and offered solutions that enslaved people with fear.

I either forgot or never knew he submitted his Master thesis for his ThD dissertation. This cop out is Family Guy-Sandler-Farley kind of stoopidity.. As to the requirements of Pike's Peak (aka Burton College), previously published articles in magazines and book reports are counted for credit. Read that again: BOOK REPORTS! COLORADO: Burton College and Seminary, 41 Lincoln Avenue, Manitou Springs. President: Fred E. Stemme. Incorporated: Chartered under laws of State of Colorado, incorporated September 17, 1927. Purpose: “To provide courses for busy pastors and Christian leaders thru the Extra-Mural method, with a minimum amount of residence work.” Facilities: “Administration” building (probably residence of president); Facilities of Hotel Grand View, Manitou Springs, to provide for housing and classes during 11-day 1960 summer seminar. Faculty and students: President Stemme and Dean Douglass (no further information about faculty); 2000 graduates reported in current announcement (“strapping the globe”). Degrees, requirements, costs: The 1956 and the 1957 programs of graduating exercises report the awarding of the following degrees: Bachelor of Theology, 4 (1956), 9, (1957); Bachelor of Arts, 0, 8; Bachelor of Science (in Education), 1, 0; Master of Arts, 3, 0; Master of Theology, 3, 10; Master of Christian Education, 0, 1; Doctor of Theology, 20, 24; Doctor of Education, 1, 0; Doctor of Philosophy, 5, 8. Costs depend upon number of “semester hours” of work to be done. “Ample credit is also allowed for books written, articles of academic value, Educational Tours, Foreign Travel, and any activity which has contributed to one’s intellectual growth.… Ministerial courses for correspondence study from various schools will be considered for credit.… Most of our students will read a text, taking copious notes on same, and then write a manuscript review from the notes.… This is ‘Extra-Mural Recitation.’ … Most texts will carry from four to six semester hours of credit.”

So, the first time you heard that vpw went to "Princeton", you immediately said "Obviously that was Princeton Theological Seminary, not Princeton University." Sorry, I can't buy that. I'm calling that an outright lie. And hardly a surprise by now.

OldSKool: "When I got answers to prayers in TWI it simply meant that God answered my prayers. Now, I used to think it was reflective of the doctrines that TWI taught....now I just understand that God loves us no matter what and he will bless his people in spite of doctrinal issues. Christianity isnt an intellectual pursuit, though wierwille tried to make it that way. God looks on the heart and scripture is filled with people who loved God, had faith, and lots of error in their minds. Moses was a pagan at the time he turned aside to see the burning bush, yet God lit the bush anyway. None of us have the full picture at this time. " This isn't difficult to understand. It might be difficult to ACCEPT if one clinging to error and encounters the truth. I am thankful that few people here actually have that problem.

"Angry Young Man", by Billy Joel. "There's a place in the world for the angry young man With his working class ties and his radical plans. He refuses to bend he refuses to crawl And he's always at home with his back to the wall. And he's proud of his scars and the battles he's lost. And struggles and bleeds as he hangs on his cross. And likes to be known as the angry young man. Give a moment or two to the angry young man With his foot in his mouth and his heart in his hand. He's been stabbed in the back he's been misunderstood. It's a comfort to know his intentions are good. And he sits in his room with a lock on the door With his maps and his medals laid out on the floor. And he likes to be known as the angry young man. I believe I've passed the age of consciousness and righteous rage I found that just surviving was a noble fight. I once believed in causes too. I had my pointless point of view, And life went on no matter who was wrong or right. And there's always a place for the angry young man With his fist in the air and his head in the sand. And he's never been able to learn from mistakes So he can't understand why his heart always breaks. And his honor is pure and his courage is well And he's fair and he's true and he's boring as hell. And he'll go to the grave as an angry old man." https://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/billyjoel/preludeangryyoungman.html

T-Bone: "What’s ironic are the times when I have admitted being young and naïve to fall for wierwille’s con – and Mike jumps on that to say how smart and discerning he was to ignore wierwille’s ‘petty shortcomings’ and just absorb ‘The Word’. A weird role reversal for sure… maybe a pot calling the kettle black thing." WordWolf: While I do believe it's true that Mike remembers it that way NOW, I'm well aware that his memory of things- including interactions here- often vary widely from what actually happened. I don't think Mike was even a fraction of the savvy he tells himself- and us- that he was back then. Part of why I say that is that his accounts of what he believed when keep contradicting each other by decades. That's either the sign of someone who's editing all his memories, a compulsive liar, or incipient Alzheimer's.

I was perfectly fine being an eclecticist, and adding the best of whatever I found to whatever twi was teaching... which, incidentally, made it a lot easier to leave twi when the truth started coming out. If vpw had openly been an eclecticist, there wouldn't be all the problems there were and there would be no GSC.

It's another example of vpw taking credit for the work of others. It's dishonest. In this case, it was also illegal since The Amplified Bible is under copyright. He could have made the same points by citing his sources and a brief quote. vpw frequently skipped his sources and insinuated he authored the work of others - Stiles, Leonard, Bullinger, twi staffers, etc. It's both illegal and immoral. But neither of those matter to Mike because he will endorse anything pfal related because he's convinced himself that all the evidence to the contrary is to be avoided, and the idea that pfal is from God Almighty is to be clung to dogmatically- all because he got blessed in twi.... as if one relates to the other at all.

WordWolf: "For those wondering, the Amplified Bible's New Testament was completed in 1958, and the bound full Bible was in stores as of 1965, published by ZONDERVAN, the same company that sells a bunch of reference books in the twi bookstore. So, yes, vpw was aware of the thing. Naturally, I'm expecting someone to claim either that vpw got that by revelation and it was an astonishing coincidence they read the same, or that God told vpw to plagiarize that version and verse and make sure to leave out any reference to the Amplified Bible. " Mike: "It amazes me how much speculation and theorizing you all do that is totally off the beam. VPW cites the Amplified Bible in: RHST - twice BTMS - once TNDC - twice GMWD - once 69-01 Mag - twice 82-11 Mag - once I first saw it in the Green Book in 1971, so I went out and bought a copy." WordWolf: It's fascinating how you can both completely miss the point, make fun of me for making a claim- and support the claim all at the same time. The only thing I needed to support was that vpw had heard of the Amplified Bible- thank you for confirming that he did! We all know he plagiarized the thing. Your point about him citing the Amplified Bible in SOME places, and plagiarizing it in OTHER places, is without merit. Raf pointed this out 20 years ago. It's like answering claims that Jeffrey Dahmer ate people by citing the people Dahmer DIDN'T eat, and standing there proudly as if this somehow affected the number of people he DID eat. I didn't speculate or theorize anything. I made a case and supported it with evidence that anyone with sense can see. Sorry if it escaped you, but I can't help that.

Oldies posted an article about the Catholic Church claiming authority on the Bible's interpretation. Martin Luther famously said "sola scriptura" . . . Which removes Catholic authority and tradition and corruption. VPW needed snow on the gas pumps. People apparently bought that. Which sounds insane. But obviously, there's a void in how to read the Bible.

I don't know. Scripture interprets itself. That is subjective?

As far as you're concerned, anybody that agrees with you has great credibility

I previously reported on the proliferation of degree mills catering to huckster clergymen of mid 20th century America. Here is just one article supporting my reporting. It’s from 1960! https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/1960/may-9/editorials-scandal-of-bogus-degrees.html Burton College is exposed in the article. Burton = Pikes Peak. One of my favorite sentences in the article: Degrees do not really tell the measure of a man, except perhaps when they are bogus.

You once again provide nothing of substance. Prove me wrong from the verses I listed....you can't. Quit name dropping Raf...it's quite pathetic...really.... You notice how on Rafs post he provided reasons and logical deductions in his argument? Since your on his jock go ahead and try and emulate how he reasons....cause youve missed that entire boat...all your trying to do is stifle conversation because you disagree...

I dont agree with this statement. I dont agree that Christ is absent. We used a goofy illustration of Christ being present/absent in reporting for class where I can readily admit Christ is not physically present, walking around in sandals and tunic on earth the way he was in the gospels. But I also followed up by saying that he has been changed and ascended and that ascended and absent arent synonamous. The problem you guys are having is you cant physically see him so he must be absent. I feel scripture points to a present, yet invisible Christ. If he is truly absent the we would be awaiting his return, and I understand some use that language, but scripture teaches we are awaiting his appearing. That makes sense when you check the records in the gospes where he disappeared out of people's sight. So a lot of this argument will depend on if you consider the Bible a true account on the subject, because without it we all sound crazy discussing any of this. The Bible directs us to a present Christ, one who is head of his Body. Can a living body have an absent head? “I am with you always, even to the end of the age” (Matt. 28:20). Jesus spoke those words to his followers after his resurrection and shortly before his ascension. He didnt say I am absent and will return later so read some Bible verses in the meantime.