Groucho

If going to church makes someone a Christian, does going to the garage make them a car?

I don't know what Juan is smokin' but I want some... ;)--> "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

Now George, you know that I very seldom question anything you say...but I just can't explain why whenever there is a full moon...I wake up in the middle of the night and find myself naked, doing the "groucho walk" in the front yard. "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

...and let me add that if the government legalizes gay marriages, then it would be consistant and logical for churches NOT to recognize them unless they so choose...and forget that crap about so-called "hate crimes"...The church or any other individual should have the right to express their moral opinion about homosexuality...this is America dammitt! You can scream all day long that they were born that way...BUT, we are still talking about a behavior...not a color, not a race, not a gender....we are talking about behavior! "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

Hypothetically...if Gay marriages are made legal, does that mean the government will force churches to recognize them? I believe that the seperation of church and state concept comes into play here. The government can provide for a legal civil union but they cannot force a church to perform or recognize such a union. There used to be folks who were legally married but unmarried in the eyes of the catholic church. The sentiment against homosexuality is religious in nature. There is no overt crime being committed other than the act itself...kinda like pot smokers. It's a moral judgement and perhaps the government should approach this issue with a more pluralistic attitude. If the government is a true democracy, representing the will of the people...gay marriages should be allowed by law. "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

Tom...I think your prediction would be a little more accurate if you switched the Redsox with NY. and put the Yanks on top... Best team money can buy.. "Thus sayeth Groucho the Yankee fan" "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

Here's one that really stuck in my craw: I entered the 10th corps after committing to a FOUR year program. This was quite clear going in. apprentice year, 2 years in residence, and one year "on the field"...That's what I signed up for, nothing more. That was the freakin' agreement that THEY drafted in writing! First year in residence, about 6 months into the year, lcm announces at a "closed" meeting that the committment we made was for a LIFETIME! If we didn't understand that, we were not spiritual enough. As I walked out of that meeting, I was mumbling to myself..."bull...., I only signed up for 4 years"...I felt that they had lied to me. I also felt that I was the only one who felt that way. Everybody else seemed to be grinnin'. Taking assigments after corps graduation was optional...that also was in writing. Suddenly I felt very betrayed by twi...I knew for the first time that I wasn't gonna be stickin' around these folks much longer... I guess we all had particular "points" at which we began realizing things were not right. I clearly saw how we were being manipulated...the seeds of discontent grew. "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

Excath...I edited it out myself. Even though I didn't use their names, my description of the events were too "detailed" ...I didn't want to embarrass some really fine people that were victimized by twi. I reconsidered after thinking about it and edited it out. But not to worry, I've got a "million" of em... ;)--> "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

Won't mention any names but did anyone ever notice that only the cute and sexy girls (in residence) were "assigned" to clean lcm's home? "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

Let's hear your favorite twi scam: "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy" [This message was edited by Groucho on March 05, 2004 at 17:19.] [This message was edited by Groucho on March 05, 2004 at 17:24.]

I was in twi for 13 years...been out for 17 years. pfal was nothing more than an indoctrinational tool that facilitated recruitment into a cult. The first thing that tipped me off about the class being wrong was the "first assignment" of the class...read the little red book "Christians should be proposterous". It seemed strange to me at the time that wierwille (while teaching about the 7 different administrations) was encouraging his followers to adhere to Jewish law from the old testament..."tithing"...first clue...follow the money. "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

Sharing wierwilles "last teaching" at the GS is like sharing mein kampf at the Jewish community center. I honestly have to question Mikes motives for bringing this diatribe here. Wierwille was a fraud whose massive ego was "enabled" by people just like Mike who hung on every word of this imposter. Mike...don't you feel foolish? "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

excathedra...I'm not aware of IMF being a pfal grad or not and I'm also not aware of anyone giving IMF a hard time because of it. My feeling (and reading other posts, I'm not alone)...is that IMF is "baiting" the other posters here. Some believe that IMF is not a woman at all but PR himself. If this is true, then it implies a certain level of dishonesty with an aim for a self serving agenda that is not plainly stated. "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

Galen...are you for real? "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

I imagine that some of Charles Manson's followers still speak highly of him too. By the way...PFAL books? I burned em all on "Uncle Harry day". "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

That's true Wordwolf...lcm was totally obedient to veepee. Nobody kissed the old mans a$$ like loy did. I also think that veepee picked him because of his "firey brand" of teaching. He could shout and intimidate...and veepee saw that as a great attribute. Whereas on the other hand, poor old Walter was too soft spoken and was passed over. "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

How right you are Wordwolf...veepee was power hungry...nobody could challenge his central authority. He was probably the most insecure man that I've ever known. Which is part of the reason that he hid his viciousness better than lcm. He needed to maintain his "benevolent father in the word" image to the masses while he bullied, intimidated and ripped apart his "leadership" in the back room. He was ruthless. "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

Hi Maure...I was away for awhile. Of course, contributing to my twi experience, was the fact that I was in an "outlying" area. Closest twig was 30 miles away. It wasn't until I went wow and then corps that I realized how much control was really being exerted on us. The hippies of twi in the early 70's became the mean-spirited, legalistic, waybrains of the waycorps in the late 70's and early 80's. Half of em were trying to emulate veepee and the other half lcm...the end result was a homogenous blend of brainwashed storm troopers. The worst of my experience was in the 10th corps at Emporia in 1979. I believe that's when my mind really went "bye bye" for awhile. I can only imagine how bad it got after I left. There really wasn't much difference between twi and old Jim Jones with his kool-aid. "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

As I read through the numerous posts on the "About the Way" forum, I am constantly amazed. You see, I was in twi from 1975-87. To me, it became too legalistic when they wouldn't let us smoke dope in twig anymore. I can't even begin to relate to selling my house and giving them the money! To observe how totalitarian it became after I left is astounding to me. When I first got in, it was a free for all. Half the ministry was dope smoking hippies. There was very little structure and the roa. looked more like a Grateful Dead concert than anything Christian. Wierwille rode around the country on his motorcycle and nobody felt that they HAD to do anything. I guess it started to become legalistic when lcm made the scene and turned the waycorps into "youth for Hitler revisited". For awhile, it was good cop, bad cop...lcm would browbeat, humiliate, and crush...and then ol' veepee would show up with a truck load of beer and a night off for everybody. A study of how lcm went from a ranting buffoon to a psycotic, sociopath with delusions of grandeur...would make most behavioral psychologists drool. "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

When I stood up at a leaders meeting and calmly announced that I could no longer, in good conscience, follow the mandates of lcm, I "tendered my resignation" and walked out the door. The following day, every wayfer in the branch was informed that I was possessed and to stay away from me. This was 1987. I was the first to walk away in my branch. Within 2 years, the entire branch had left twi and the very folks who announced my possession had joined the ranks of the Linda Blair for lunch bunch. The one redeeming quality about lcm was that he made it quite easy for me to walk away. I couldn't believe that veepee had turned the reins over to such a buffoon. "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

Is he still driving a delivery truck? What a moron...arrogant, stupid, overbearing, self serving and dishonest...a bad combination every time. "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

Actually Onion Muncher, I think that one of them might be mine...it was a blue wow pin and you were supposed to turn it into a roachclip for me...but that was a long time ago...keep it. The real question here is how in the world did Wacky hold on to $30 for 20 years!!! "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

Hmmm...I guess the challenge is to see how many different ways we can analogize our twi experience effectively. Wierwille was a grifter and a circus carney rolled into one, his "class" consisted of plagiarized work and sophmoric "research" and perpetrated massive and manipulative biblical error. Perhaps more than anything else, it was the way twi "formatted" this class. No questions allowed, strict 10 minute breaks, 3 hour sessions with a barrage of "grads" "undersheparding" the new recruits. The isolation from their friends and family began early... This "class" that so many of you think is so wonderful was the "entry point" of an indoctrination process. This is the place where you turned in your individuality for a nametag. This is where "waybrain" began to infest your mind...like maggotts on spoiled meat. If you "found Christ" through that "class"...you did it in SPITE of pfal not because of it.

Mel Gibson is a deeply religiuos man and this film has been his passion for many years. He financed the whole thing himself and will probably become obscenely rich as a result. Good for him. He is one of the best film makers anywhere around, he's made some wonderful movies. Graphic violence? Extreme from what I've heard but this is not the same kind of graphic violence you see in a horror movie. Because of the context of this violence, it could serve as a graphic illustration in the mind of the Christian believer and therefore contribute to a greater appreciation of their faith. No kids, mature folks only. ...and doesn't the bible clearly say that the Jews killed Jesus?

Happy B-day to the Wackster!