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lindyhopper

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Everything posted by lindyhopper

  1. Oh, ahahahahaha. Goodnight TWI Goodnight mush
  2. I thought it was just to go along with the style of song that it was. .. kind of show tune-esk. Growing up that was one of the more enjoyable songs sung. As a kid I always liked the fun additions to songs people did in "twig" but in the late 90's even that was cracked down on, from what I heard it was more because Mrs. Owens didn't like people doing it. Anyway, I always thought everyone should throw their arms out and jump out on one foot and sing "YEAH" at the end of that song.
  3. The key here, Kevin, is the part about something "big enough" going on to require a country coordinator. What is the standard? Glad you asked. I met the country coordinator of Germany at the last advanced class special I went to (maybe in 2000). We were on the same airport shuttle. Turns out it is a similar requirement as getting a country's flag at HQ. This guy was corps, perhaps military (don't n but it would have made sense seeing that he was American) and he along with his wife were the country coordinators of Germany. When we asked about how many people/fellowships etc were in Germany he explained it was the two of them and another guy... aaaaaaand that was it! You see all you need to have a country coordinator is to have an active corps grad in that country and BAM they're it! Oh you've gotta love VWP's vision, NAY, revelation of Word over the World and his preemptive naming of the Way International, even before it was so HUGELY international! Actually, I know someone who knows someone in what used to be Zaire, now the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and apparently there is a huge number of Wayfer-ish people there, something ridiculous like 50,000 (in part because of the patriarchal society where the family does what the head of the family does or something). Anyway, they apparently are left basically without much interaction with "the root" in NK. So I don't really know if they should still be considered Wayfers but that's what I've heard. I don't know if they get tapes or what.
  4. ... when your "spiritual leader" tells you not to communicate with your parents and you so you don't. ... when you are called to a meeting in which you know you are going to be scrutinized and criticized by a group of you peers, and you go, cause you think it is in your best interest. ... when you go to a bible advance, because they don't "retreat", and while you all listen to a song "wash my feet in the blood of the wicked" the crowd claps and cheers. ... when the leader of your church sings "Redneck Mother" at your annual get together. No wait that's you might be a redneck if...
  5. a little late on the comment but... If this was our old area, JT, then I'm sorry that was probably my fault. I did landscaping the last few years in TWI, and out of boredom and perhaps a lack of an artistic outlet I used to do this in our house every night before fellowship or a class. I would change up the lines and angles or do something like a target and yes I would do my best to keep the pattern even under the tables and chairs and around corners and down halls, even if it was on a diagonal down the hall. This was not anality, it was just personal amusement. I can see our old LC seeing it, liking it, and insisting other people to do the same. It may have started at a class we had at our house. I guess even though I never "won" anyone, I did leave a mark after all. I did also hate the changed words to Christmas songs, and even worse was that we would go out caroling singing them. Looking back it is hilarious to think of how people's faces would slowly change as they first recognized the melody but then realize something was different. The smile would turn to bewilderment and then to an uncomfortable courtesy smile.
  6. Cheers to you HCW for doing good work for people in great need in Africa. TWI doesn't have a clue.
  7. I think for some lower on the totem pole, it is also about identity and self confidence or lack there of. Remember the old affirmation: "I am what the Word of God says I am I will be what the Word of God says I will be I can do what the Word of God says I can do Therefore I do." Not necessarily a bad thing on it's own, depending on how you read the Bible, but when you've been in TWI for decades and you've heard both explicitly and implicitly that the Word is the Ministry and the Ministry is the Word, then you've got a much narrower scope of who you are and who you can be and what you can do. Plus there are folks in still that got involved when they were beginning their adulthood and are well into their years now with little defining them outside of TWI meetings, classes, programs, and "study" material. Hopes and dreams outside of TWI have faded and replaced. Plus what you guys said... It's a hard thing to leave when you're comfortable and not threatened. In that respect LCM was the best thing to happen to the Way. It was a lot easier for people to leave with him and his clones around. It's not just the TWI either. People put up with a lot worse than just lame fellowships, disjointed, stupid teachings, and "WOW mobiles" wasting their life away. A lot worse. Did you know that all of their songs were written in the stars, Waysider?
  8. Perhaps, Mark, you could outline a paradigm shift in the healthcare system and how do you imagine that shift coming about and being implemented?
  9. Yes, why did God send his "only begotten son" to save you from your sins, when he already gave you a law. If you would have only worked hard enough, you could have saved yourselves. Now he has created this system where you are reliant on Him instead of you being self reliant! Where does this welfare state come from? How dare the government take His place. Collecting your taxes due and being a "big brother" is His job not theirs!
  10. You know the Right has had the hand of the Christian right in elections for the past couple of decades. Now someone on the Left uses their faith in a positive and honest way to win an election and suddenly they are "God's partner?" Can you say double standard? In fact that is all I have heard from the right lately, double standards.
  11. Maybe some examples would make your point clearer. Like what infringements on the "American's Constitutional rights," or how exactly certain people use separation of church and state to keep Christians from being involved in government, or how the government is involved with the affairs of churches?
  12. For most of my life, ,most of the corps I knew were my family and people we were in res with. My parents did go witnessing before and after being corps. All the corps in our days went out as "light bearers" (was that it) while in res and many people "won" folks and even got classes together in a short period of time. I would say most did not get classes together though, if my memory serves me correctly. I lived with them till the early 90's and my mother did get people to come, some of which still go to fellowships, my step dad did not, but he did still go witnessing. Other corps in our area in the late 80's and 90's also witnessed but I don't remember who won who. In the 90's and early 00's I remember the corps occasionally going out with us, but never got a fish on the line. Very few people did. There was not and still is not a lot of growth in that area or most areas for TWI. I think in part it had something to do with your personality and who you chose to talk to. Some people had the knack but many people did not. As some corps increasingly became hard-asses, I think they were less likely to "win" anyone. They were more adept at running people off. Like I said though, there were still some with the attitude or personality that worked for witnessing and finding new people. To be fair, I was not one of them. In my 20ish years of growing up in TWI, I went to many organized witnessing events and witnessed to most of my friends to some degree (until college) and the only people I ever got to come to a fellowship were girls I dated or was good friends with. One got as far as the second session, then left a note with her books, collaterals, etc on my bed saying that she would not be finishing the class and that she was breaking up with me. Smart girl! The second is now my wife and she would not have lasted if I had stayed. But lucky for us I left before she made it to her second meeting
  13. I was 28 or 29 when I first stopped in here. There was another poster, PMosh, who stops by from time to time as do I, that was 25 at the time I believe. I am 34 now so he is probably 30ish. We were more or less the regular "youngins" around here when we were more regular. Here's my take on why there are not more 20 somethings here: First off it seems to take a while for someone who was raised in the Way to get out. There is the whole life long indoctrination part and the fact that they also have at least their immediate family still in TWI. Combined with the old "non-policy" policy of mark and avoid that lingers in one's mind, it is hard to break away from the family. Second, if you did get out of the Way at an early age then you just saved yourself a lifetime of therapy. Cheers to you. If you look around here, one reason people are here is for a therapy of sorts, a connection with people that know where you are coming from and a family of support so to speak. If you got out early you missed out on some wonderful things to be disgruntled about. You didn't waste the better part of your youth on a cult. You most likely didn't get involved enough to be in the corps and if you were corps you were more likely thrown out than dropped out of TWI so again it takes time to realize that it was TWI that was screwed up not you... ok maybe both were screwed up. If you are 25 years old or younger now then that means you were in your mid to early teens at the time of the Martindale blow up and even younger during the 90s when the control of TWI really came out of the closet. Those were not pretty times, but as a teen and younger these things don't usually stand out to your naive brain yet. I have chatted with many of the 18 -25 crowd over on myspace and facebook and they are clearly clueless as to how bad things were and are ready to write it off because they feel good now. The reality though is that TWI has not changed. Control has just gone back in the closet, it is much more subtle, but all the same teachings are there. The same basic flawed framework is still in place, only the faces on the package changed and they have led people to believe that it was the personalities of the past that were the problem. wrong wrong WRONG! It is only a matter of time before the old face of TWI rears it's head again... or they fizzle out. There are a few of us 30 somethings around here and we were not unlike yourself in twenties. Confident that we had the greatest thing since the first century and ragin' full on. Different organization than you, but the same doctrine more or less and the same basic attitude. So, SOWER, when ever you are ready to open up a little more about yourself and what the SOWERS program was like or if you grew up in TWI or otherwise, or there is something weighting on your heart, feel free to let loose. It is a good thing to do. peace
  14. I think perhaps the problem is in the concept of idolatry. That concept is that you can not put one thing above this other thing, thus sayeth the one true thing. So then you are convinced you've got the one true thing. Then one day you come upon a "revelation." The thing you thought was the one true thing was actually just some other thing. Damn it! You've been committing idolatry all that time. Well you'd better get back on track and put THE real one true thing back in position numero uno. This might take some adjusting of your view of things but all you know is you'd better not be committing idolatry. Thank goodness you know that you know that you know, or at least NOW you do or you'd better hope so. If not you're an idolater.
  15. I think you have it there T-Bone. But, hopefully not at the risk of changing direction here too much, I don't really see the spiritual man understanding much more than the natural man about spiritual things. They certainly believe more, and where understanding lacks, faith covers. In my experience faith covers more "things of the spirit" than understanding does. Of course, YMMV : ) It would seem if so many people understood the "things of the spirit" there would be much more agreed upon in spiritual matters. Perhaps soul and spirit are a little more muddy and are not so easily "divided assunder." We are all judged by all and we all judge.
  16. Life is as different as it could be. non-religious no fellowships or church meetings so no SITing or praying for that matter question more very few TWI contacts, mostly family married business owner, not an employee college grad I actually have a BS instead of just quoting BS I have meaningful conversations w/ people "how can I fit 'the word' into this" never comes to mind no witnessing no required reading or tape listening raise my kids the way I see fit more politically left than before care about politics and the world at large more I'm still basically the same person though. I just get to be myself more now. So much so though, that much of my adult TWI years seem like another life.
  17. If LCM is a Ghostbuster, then who ya gonna call?
  18. I know a small number of wayfers on facebook and they have plenty of pictures of events with friends etc. Although, I also know of people who have been recently told to not have pics up of people who have left the way not long ago... leaders that local people still like and converse with.
  19. My first PFAL class was at Rome City at the age of 12. I concure. Boring and after being in TWI for 7 years already I had heard and read it all several times before. So... one session the guy running the class left the room for a while and a friend on mine got up and fast forwarded the VCR through about 25 minutes of the class. No one thought about the fact that they timed the class and would notice if it ended early. The guy did notice and gave us all a stern talking too but no one ratted out my friend. Good times.
  20. Bingo. I wouldn't try to force her or argue about going or not going or seeing old friends or not. That just backfires. If you can put up with her friends then I would. I think if you have the option, as in an invite or are going with her to meet friends, then go with her. Lead by example, the way you did when she first left. Show her the difference between someone who truly loves her and someone who only cares for her if she is in their cult... by your actions. Everyone has to arrive at this at their own time and their own pace. I would say don't let the Way come between you and her. If they want to break you up then let her see that through their actions. If you really love her, be there for her. Fight for her, not with her. You obviously saw something in each other back when you first got together, when she was in the Way. I doubt the two of you have changed much. Your perceptions of each others beliefs may have changed but you're still the same people. Don't let religion destroy what I imagine was a natural attraction and affection.
  21. Those are Disney spirits. There is always one big fat blob one with another very skinny one. It's all there in the films, but to master the depth of the truth they tell, you must read the original book versions.
  22. Not sure of the exact details of districting but they were not all on campus but yes everyone went to all the normal districted schools. I just had friends that lived there, I didn't. At the Indiana campus though, dealings on an 4th to 6th grade level were fairly normal. There seemed to be some skepticism from some kids at first but if you were cool or good at something they warmed up to you, which is pretty much how it is for most people in school. If you don't fit in in some way you just won't. I had local friends with sleep overs and camp overs at their house or farm and I had couple friends stay in our campus dorm room for a sleep over too. Too funny to see this kids sit down in the middle of the west wing hallway because there was a huge S.I.T sign on the dining room door. I think at the high school level it was a little tougher. Here you were in the middle of Kenndleville, IN (where the districted high school was), in farm country, and in walk kids from all over the country, some with long skater hair or some with long headbanger hair, and all the crew cut farm boys say, 'who are these fags!) Oh, and they were in a cult too. You can image the whole Footloose scenario. .... and the dancing ensued. I think my older brother pretty much hated it, so he'd spend his nights dancing his frustrations away.
  23. Lets see as a little mini-corps type person we swept the front parking lot at the Indy Campus with straw brooms, used small sickles to cut the grass between new trees that were planted in that big field past Uncle Harry Hill, dug ditches with small shovels and spades, and raked the entire fareway and pond/island area of leaves. Those are (not sh!tting you) some good memories. How often do you get to use a sickle to cut grass. That was cool at 12 y/o. Being told that I didn't know how to properly sweep a giant parking lot, not so cool. But dammit if I'm not a fantastic sweeper... when I actually sweep. I attribute my work ethic to many of those experiences. It may have been more fun to be able to joke around about it and play a little even if you got yelled at, at least they weren't critiquing our spiritual standing by our technique. When I first started working with a contractor friend of our who was a Wayfer at age 20 or so, he had me nail the decking down to a big deck by hand. I found out later that he usually used a nail gun at a lower pressure to drive the nails just shy of flush and only finished with a hammer. Boy was my arm tired, but I learned how to swing a hammer like nobodies business. Of course, if I were an adult and were being treated like a child and screamed at for stupid stuff I would be ....ed. Or if I was told to cut down a bunch of cotton wood trees and wasn't allowed to point to the thousands of other cottonwoods that surrounded the property, I would be ....ed. I love cottonwood trees. All the house cleaning? Yeah, I'm a slob. Oh, and an infidel, so maybe there was something to that!
  24. What WW is trying to say is that he is not his virtual brother's keeper. He checked in here for a while. It seemed like maybe things were dying down with the GF but he was not getting involved with TWI. His profile isn't posting any of his recent posts or threads. He seemed to have a good head on his shoulders so I figure he is not in and the question is whether his GF is still his GF and if they are if she is still in or not. Find out next week on The Hills: The Way Edition.
  25. All I know is that shortly after posting my real name here years ago I received a call from someone you could say is almost like a brother to me. It was while he and his wife were on staff. The timing was too close to be coincidental. It was like a confrontation call, why did I leave, blah blah blah, I guess I never knew you, I'll be praying for you. Haven't heard from him since. You know, like a real brother. So I often wonder about that. Did they Way google my name and cross reference it with my family of a different name and then connected it to his. Is there some sort of WayTree Database or was he on here reading everything, or at least enough to see my random post with my name on it? Maybe I posted it on a WayGB thread just to test it, I don't remember. I think perhaps there could be a number of people of a certain status on staff or otherwise (spuritually mature enough ) that have been told that they should check in here from time to time and if they see something familiar to notify Linder, or something like that. BTW- It's Matt Wilson b!tches!
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