Karl Kahler

Hey Raf, sup! Long time, huh?

Courage to you, BlueCord. Leaving is not easy, especially with the deep social and family ties that The Way can wrap around you, not to mention the suggestions they may have planted in your head that if you leave The Way, God is "forced" to remove his hand of protection from you and you are fair game for the Adversary. That is pure manipulation and brainwashing, but it's powerful stuff. You ask me, the freedom on the other side is worth whatever it takes to break out of The Way's bondage.

Ex, I always call him V.D. Wierwille, but yes, we're talking about the same person.

Somehow I missed this thread previously! Good points all around. Victor and Stephanie Barnard and I were in the 14th Corps, not the 12th (as well as his prominent followers Ken and Amy Pacanowski and at least two other followers that I know of). Stephanie was an assistant to V.D. Wierwille the year he died, our interim year, 1985. We graduated in the summer of '86, which is when Victor and Stephanie married. I've heard one theory that Stephanie was not too perturbed by her husband's philandering because she knew how V.D. Wierwille lived his life. One of Barnard's "Maidens" was a young woman from Brazil who had to go home when her visa expired around 2008. Barnard, enforcing his rule that Maidens had to travel in pairs at all times (a very effective way of keeping them from thinking for themselves, or blabbing to others), sent a series of Maidens to Brazil to be with the Brazilian girl for six months at a time. After about 18 months, and around the time River Road Fellowship blew up in MN and relocated to WA, Barnard flew down to Brazil as well, and may have spent up to six months there before rejoining his flock in Washington. I have no idea how many followers he or his Maidens were able to win down there, but it would be a natural place for him to hide. However, my understanding is that the police are pretty sure he is in the U.S., and probably in Washington, where he has a much larger network of worshipful followers to help him hide. Here are the top people closest to Barnard that I know of: Mark and Jean Frontczak are in Bellingham, Washington. Mark allowed Victor to ordain him (wtf?), so it's Rev. Frontczak now. He used to be a big wheel in Bless Patrol at HQ, so presumably he would know a thing or two about security, and possibly about hiding someone from the police. I believe their daughter is one of the Maidens. Mark was one of the people who most vehemently resisted any effort within the group to bring Victor's sins to light or to confront him on his adultery with married women in the group. There is also a group of seven young women in Bellingham called Auriga's Band, named after a constellation. These women, who are in an all-girl band, are described as just like the Maidens, in the full service of Victor "Christ in the flesh" Barnard. Pam and Randy Roark are in Spokane. I put her name first because she is said to be extraordinarily close to Barnard, almost certainly one of his "conquests." But Randy was another person Victor ordained. Pam and Randy used to be in the Family Corps and were Branch coordinators in the Twin Cities. TWO of their daughters are Maidens — even though Pam should know what a lech Barnard is, and what service to him entails. I'm told that Randy was bothered by Victor's closeness to Pam (as was Victor's wife Stephanie), and that Victor once said they might have to deliver Randy to Satan. Pam Roark was probably the primary person who organized the Maidens, planned their day, scheduled their cooking and cleaning and sewing duties, as well as their time to attend Victor. If anyone is an accessory to Victor's crimes, Pam Roark would be my chief suspect. Craig Elmblad is another person Victor ordained who is Spokane. He was never in the Corps but was a younger brother of Judy Bedard, who was an assistant Corps coordinator when we were in the 14th Corps. When Minnesota police went to Washington looking for Victor and knocked on his last known address, Elmblad answered the door and said he had no idea where Victor was. A fourth person ordained by Victor was Ken Pacanowski, who was married to Amy, both of the 14th Corps, now back in Pennsylvania. He was one of the first people to confront Victor on his adultery, and he has since left the group, though his confrontation appears to have been rather namby-pamby, and he thought it was wrong to go to the authorities about Barnard's alleged crimes. I don't know what kind of resources the cops have to investigate this case, but I believe if they had a court order and the time and staff to tap the phones of just two or three of the above-mentioned people, it would lead them straight to Barnard before too long. Cheers to all, Karl

Tragically, Ex, Lindsay Tornambe's younger sister took her place as a "Maiden" and is still in the group.

Thanks for that, Ex. It's good to know that some people out there know what I'm talking about (and know much better than I). I vaguely remember Carmen Tornambe because he was in the 12th Corps and in residence with the 14th Corps (and was a man with a woman's name). He left Barnard's group, and talked to investigators, but his wife, Peggy, left him and stayed with Barnard. Their daughter, Lindsay, told me that Peggy didn't want to hear anything she had to say about Barnard's lechery, saying she was still standing with Victor no matter what. Lindsay doesn't speak to her mother anymore. Lindsay also doesn't speak to her father, because she says he's still in denial about what happened to her — and wants people to feel sorry for him because he lost his whole family. Well, boo-hoo. If Carmen Tornambe thinks he's the victim here, I can only pity his cluelessness.

The most disturbing story I’ve ever reported will be published Sunday in the St. Paul Pioneer Press and was just posted online here: http://www.twincities.com/localnews/ci_25783953/victor-barnard-called-girls-brides-christ-and-he It’s the story of a remarkable woman who endured nine years of sexual abuse, starting when she was just 13, by a cult leader and Corps grad named Victor Barnard who recruited a harem of 10 young “Maidens” to be “sacrificed to God” and “married to Christ.” What that meant, according to a criminal complaint filed in Minnesota last month, was that he would use them repeatedly for sex — for years — because he was “Christ in the flesh.” He’s a wanted man today, believed to be hiding in Washington state. I actually knew the guy 30 years ago when we were both in the 14th Corps, and I believe The Way is where he learned his sick tactics.

For those who are interested, I've talked to some knowledgeable ex-insiders from River Road Fellowship, and I hope to publish something soon. Stay tuned. If and when it happens, I will post a new thread.

Hello gang! Long time no play. I was in the 14th Corps with Victor Barnard and his wife Stephanie Sarro, and as one of you noted I was interviewed by Fox 9 News in the Twin Cities, as well as the Minneapolis Star-Tribune and Minnesota Public Radio. I'm an editor at the San Jose Mercury News and I'm interested in writing something about this myself. If anyone has contact info for Jeff Sjolander or anyone else who was involved in River Road, I would welcome your email at kkahler@mercurynews.com. Thanks!

I think what he meant was, "Don't you dare question anything I say, or this whole fraud could collapse like a house of cards!" What amazes me is how Wierwille elevated the worship of the Word above the worship of God or a relationship with Jesus Christ. "It's the Word, the Word, and nothing but the Word!" Here he played to his strength, such as it was - the "right dividing" of the Word that he plagiarized from so many others and enshrined in PFAL. I suspect he personally had no relationship with God, and he diminished the importance of Christ except to use his name as a magical incantation at the end of every prayer, or to rant about "Christ in me" (which is more about "me" than about "Christ"). The only angle VPW had was "the Word." He taught us to worship a book!

Yes, David, I wrote to that shyster on Amazon and asked why he was charging $139 used for a book I sell for $25 new. He never wrote back. Glad to hear it's still there, meaning nobody has bought it yet! It's not THAT good! :)

Good to hear from you again, Sudo! I'll see you in hell. = )

Yes, Groucho, my witty old pal: You say goodbye, I say hello. I enjoyed this place for a long time, but I got to the point where I couldn't keep up - and where everything I was posting was starting to sound the same. But I assumed it would always be here, and was a bit shocked to learn that it was closing. I guess we'll all meet in GreaseSpot Heaven someday. There is a GreaseSpot Heaven, right?

Yes, Bramble, Kindle is one of the formats at Smashwords. I don't know about opting out and uploading it to Amazon myself. I am waiting for the Smash folks to review it to make sure it meets their formatting standards, at which time they will put it on a premium distribution list so that it reaches all major retailers. Thanks all for your interest and kind words. I'm looking forward to Charlene's book!

Hi Groucho! (And Shellon, and Kit, and other friends old and new.) The Way was so corrupt on so many levels. The sexual abuse of trusting women by predatory leaders was perhaps the worst of it. But we were all used in so many ways - hoodwinked by a slick sales package and brainwashed by the coordinated peer pressure that was Way culture. The Way erased our personalities and gave us new ones. It told us how to think, speak and act, applying carrots and sticks to make us conform. It turned us against our parents. It talked us into going WOW instead of going to college. It required us to send rich people an absolute minimum of 10% of our income, no matter how poor we were with the crap jobs we were able to get with our non-educations. The Way made us dedicate our lives to going out and finding new, innocent people to recruit and brainwash, using the same tactics that worked so well on us. It invaded our privacy, treating grown men and women like children, supervising our finances, our romances, our life decisions. It coerced us to marry or divorce, to have children or have abortions. It told us where to live, how to live and who to live with. My anger is long gone, let alone my "bitterness," but I'll never fully get over the years that were stolen from me. I hope we can all be "ambassadors" now of a different kind, living examples of the fruits of freedom and implacable enemies of religious predators who seek to control the lives of others.

Hilarious!

Hello to all my old friends, and greetings to the ones I haven't met yet. I wanted to drop a note saying that my book, "The Cult That Snapped: A Journey Into The Way International" can now be accessed online. For those who haven't read it, it's a detailed history of The Way and a personal narrative of my seven years in the ministry (1980-87), plus a reporter's-eye view of The Way of Craig Martindale of the 1990s. If you're interested, you can order a print-on-demand copy at http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/kkahleratverizondotnet ... or download the e-book in a variety of formats for just $5.99 at http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/35199. You can also preview much of the book for free at the second site. Some people have told me this book changed their lives, and many have found it a valuable source of information for confronting current members with The Way’s true colors. And some people just told me they laughed until they cried. Happy reading! And thanks to Pawtucket for the immense public service of keeping this site going for so long. Best, Karl

You say goodbye … I say hello. Hello to all my old friends, and sorry I’ve been such a stranger. I was surprised and saddened to hear that the GreaseSpot is closing, as I know what a close community, source of information and, apparently, dating site it has become (hi Groucho!). My hat’s off to Pawtucket for the enormous labor of love he has put into this site for roughly 10 years. I know it’s an enormous undertaking, and he has my respect and thanks. From the Oddlist to WayDale to GSC, I spent a few years interacting rather intensely with this lovable bunch. It sustained me, entertained me and at times shamed me, and all in all made me a much better person. I have no doubt that some successor will arise. It takes a village … and this is one hell of a village! Cheers, Karl

Where's that guy on the Oddlist who knows Steve Keil? I went through the 14th Corps with Steve, and he used to bring a Greek Bible to Sunday night service and everything else. I don't mean a Greek interlinear with an English translation, I mean a New Testament with nothing but Greek. He could "shed some light" on a great many of these discussions, and not because he's an apostle (="sent one") but because he knows Greek like I know Eminem. Rafael, you've created a monster, cuz nobody wantsta see short lists no more, we want long lists and lots of 'em. Here's one idea. Divide your final paper into three chapters. "Actual Errors in PFAL." You're good at that. "Probable Errors in Way Doctrine." Where most reasonable people would conclude that it's probably an error, of interpretation or fact. This could take in most of the offerings on this list. And finally, "Strange Doctrines," unprovable points like masturbation as the original sin or human "seed boys" ruling devil spirits in Satan's kingdom. Here I would include 4 crucified, 6 denials of Peter, 4 temptations of Christ, 2 sermons on the mount, 4 blind men healed in Jericho in a single day. They aren't provably untrue, but the represent a very small minority position in the Christian community. I bet far less than 1 percent of all humankind has ever heard that more than two men were crucified with Jesus, and most of them are PFAL grads. That doesn't make it wrong, but it's still a "strange doctrine." It's a bit esoteric, a bit "new and different," but it smells suspiciously like something that wouldn't pass peer review in any accredited university by people with doctorates. So Rafe, while I admire your high standards, I think you should consider at least a second category, if not a third, of Way teachings that are widely open to question. This could include JC is not God, the dead are not alive now, the law of believing and a host of other minority positions invented by V.P. Wierwille or plagiarized from somebody who wasn't very smart (Lamsa) or was but invented elaborate explanations for Bible problems (Bullinger). It doesn't mean they're wrong. But they're worth questioning. It's been fun. Hopefully I'll stop soon. Thank you troubledwine and Oakspear for your enlightenment, and Zixar for your wisdom. (Four crucified, to me, is an error in the Bible, not in PFAL, but I realize we'll get nowhere if we start talking about errors in the Bible.) Tell you what, Rafael, if you don't have the patience or low standards to collect all the "questionable beliefs," I'll make my own list. First you have to hone the "actual errors" list, though. You publish that list and I'll collate all the leftovers! Happy, helpful, windy Karl

Hi Hope and Garth. Walker is a hilarious guy who posts with a logo of a cow skull. Once you get to know him he's quite a treasure. Hey QQ, a little bird told me you're actually Satori. Ha! Good to see you too. What happened to that other guy? I heard he bought a Lexus and a yacht and a house in the Caribbean. With OUR abundant sharing. How's this for your list, Rafe? VP insisted that "faith" was an inaccurate translation of the word "pistis." This is more than a matter of opinion; it's a blatant error. Every Greek linguist in the world will tell you that pistis is faith and faith is pistis. VP had a problem with "faith," and then he made it our problem. As John Juedes has said, "pistis" should no more be translated "believing" than "agape" should be translated "loving" or "elpis" should be translated "hoping." Pistis is a common noun, not a gerund. "Believing" is a gerund. It is NOT an accurate translation of "pistis." Boy, you get me started and I just can't shut up. Cheers to all, Karl P.S. Hey, how come nobody's mentioned the four crucified with Christ? Too many people still believe it? What saith Zixar?

Rafe, don't tell me you don't have a copy of my book open to Page 167, "The 'Master Student'." I used to have Craig's original "Athletes of the Spirit" tapes, and then I lost the first one but still had the crucial second. I listened to it back in 1991 or so and transcribed and started analyzing it in writing. This became Chapter 13 of my humble book (which I wish I'd titled "Cult and Consequence"). If you don't have a copy, I could send you an e-mail with the relevant passages, if I knew your e-mail address. Mine is well-known, karl@ex-way.com, thank you very much Mr. Irishman with the Blue Cup full of Bass. "Athletes of the imagination" is what I called the 10 pages I devoted to this examination of Martindale's imaginative brain. This athletes doctrine was made up out of whole cloth, it was manufactured from scratch in VP's head. Then Martindale unwisely took off with it, coerced Cummins into supporting it, and gave the teaching of his life, a tremendously inspiring teaching but dead wrong, a dreadful butchery of Ephesians 6, which contains not one athletic metaphor except, arguably, "wrestle." Garth! How ya doin, old pal? Is this what it takes to bring the likes of you out of hiding? But where is Walker? And George Aar, you don't post enough, you're too smart to be so quiet. By the way, the real history is that VP first taught "athletes of the spirit" in 1971 in the Way Woods. This teaching was not recorded, and would have been little noted and long forgotten if one of the people in the audience hadn't been Craig Martindale. Craig loved this idea, and he remembered it for 9 years, he worked it and developed it, and finally he gave this teaching that appeared to nail it, to "document" once and for all that there were NO military metaphors in the epistles, not one, not even in Ephesians 6. What a load of crap. Next day, VP and Craig and Walter Cummins call the Corps together and turn on the recording equipment to discuss the stupid teaching Craig gave last night and to endorse its every assertion. Wierwille totally believes it. He's 5 years away from being dead, so he's not senile, he's just nuts. He couldn't care less what the Bible really says. All he cares about is making a splash with a new interpretation, something racy and sexy, something that's never been tried before. "New light" to our generation, yeah, right, thank you very much "Doctor" Wierwille. Just remember, the word "athletes" appears nowhere in the Bible. The word "slave," doulos (Oakspear knows how to spell it) occurs something like 150 times in the New Testament. If you're looking for a "metaphor," Mr. Martindale, you might want to start with "slave." I know, I know, it's just not as sexy. Happy Saturday, Karl

Gang, I just spent about an hour of my precious time on a Friday night to write you a note, but then I hit the wrong button and my iMac said, “WRONG BUTTON. DELETE NOTE.” So I thought my note got deleted. It simply vanished. It simply fled into the night without being recorded or celebrated in any way at all. Ah, well. I’m a Buddhist. No, wait, I’m a Christian Hindu like that Indian dude Bishop Pillai. “If I come home and my house is burning down, I'll say to myself, I will build another house.” I think I may be a Zen Buddhist. Back when I was in college I read a book about Zen Buddhism, and apparently in their religion you’re not allowed to believe in anything. I’ve been a Zen Buddhist ever since. Zen and the art of sending e-mail. Such a new art, and so rarely mastered. “Do not aim the arrow at the bullseye. Let the arrow fly itself.” Zen and the Art of Target Shooting. I wrote for the longest time about how that verse in Acts is punctuated perfectly. I wish you could have read it, but I’m afraid it vanished. (Now I think it actually survived the jourey.) I also wrote about my personal favorite, the verse in Proverbs that says “A man’s gift maketh room for him.” I guess I might have to rewrite this stuff, if you’re ever going to see it. Whatever else happens, don’t forget about the original sin being masturbation. That’s an “actual error,” Rafe with your fine-tuned sense of same. It’s possible, I guess, but there’s absolutely nothing in the text to support the idea. Apparently VP came up with it while he was masturbating. Walker, do you have any ideas on the subject? While we’re on the subject, the word “available” does not appear anywhere in the Bible. “What’s available, how to receive it, what to do with it after you’ve got it, keeping your needs and wants parallel, I forget the fifth point but I think it was pretty lame, God will answer all your prayers or something like that — all of this is Wierwille’s invention or something he stole from somebody else. It isn’t in the Bible. “What’s available” is simply not, Wierwille fans, in the Bible. (Nor is “athletes,” LCM fans.) I better write short in case I crash the system. Cheers to all, and please don’t stop until you’ve found 100 errors in Wierwille’s work. Don’t make me submit my list of favorites again, starting with those incredibly nimble Athletes!

Headline: THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER GOD WANTED PAUL TO GO TO JERUSALEM. That is a circumlocution and error logic injected into tens of thousands of people's brains just like you and me and all our friends. It's embarrassingly simple. The Jews had a saying in Aramaic, "The will of the Lord be done." Even Wierwille doesn't dispute the translation. But he disputes the PUNCTUATION, for several minutes, acting like the removal of that one comma would separate truth from error. Well, bull-hockey. What was he drinking the night he came up with this theory? Just read the words, VP, and stop obsessing over the punctuation. Yes, we know, there was no punctuation in the Greek! So what, that means you can repunctuate any sentence in the Bible, including, "Very I say unto you, Today thou shalt be with me in paradise"? Another one for your list, alert Rafael in Florida if you aren't already nodding off. VP insisted on changing it to "Verily I say unto you today, Thou shalt be with me in paradise." Oh, yeah, and when?! When? Today? I'm going to be in paradise with you when? Not today? Not until 2 or 3000 years later when you return (yeah, right) to gather all the sleeping corpses and all the live believers? "Verily I say unto you," however you could translate this ("I'll tell you the truth" is my offering), was one of Jesus's favorite sayings. I'll tell you the truth, he said, and then he did. He told the truth every minute he lived, right down to the last few hours before he died, quoting Psalms about how God had forsaken him and all that. It's in the BIBLE. You can look it UP. PFAL IS 2/3 BS. Wierwille was full of cow turds, the smell of corn, a mediocre IQ, a very basic Ohio boy's understanding of the book called the Bible and very little else. He didn't know ****, but he still acted like he was the big it, the apostle who would save the 20th century from drowning in ignorance of the "present truth," as Wierwille's best disciple later coined the term. I hate to dis Wierwille. Hell, I hate to dis anybody, and I encourage anybody to dis me. But I think Wierwille was full of ****, from his eyebrows to his ***hole, and if the blind old man could stand up right now and speak for himself but for once be honest, I think the old cost would have to admit that he really, truly was a fake, that he was horny more than he was studious, that he loved girls and boinked several hundred of them, but he did it in absolute secrecy while maintaining the undisputed position that he was the world's most skilled master of following "The Word." What a bunch of crap. He was a drunk old lecher and we are his progeny. Well, hurray for us. At least God favored Zixar with a 150+ IQ to set us straight on what the truth is on most subjects. Just don't listen to him on the Book of Acts and you'll be fine. Love you all, No, really, I do, but where is Walker? Karl

Hey QQ, good to see you here, you look so familiar in your steaming blue cup. Do you ever use the glass of Guinness anymore? And Evan, whoever you are, happy to see you. I actually posted before I read half of what you guys wrote about Acts. I agree (apologies to my man Rafe, and good to see you too) that this is not an indisputable error, but it's still an interesting error. I bet there are VERY few Christians on VERY few websites who sit up nights debating whether this verse in Acts is punctuated correctly. I suspect this is a Way-only obsession. Zixar, of all people, the smartest man I ever met on the Internet, is an expert on a great many things, and ordinarily I would recommend him for answering just about any question correctly. Truly, he is a genius, and I'm not being sarcastic, I'm being truthful. But, having said that, I'm wondering if he slept through his Greek lessons. I think any "expert" could look at that verse, study it from every conceivable angle, and conclude that it's punctuated perfectly. Oakspear, you slay me with those Greek letters. Where do you get those? I used to know hundreds of Greek words. You and me put together probably know twice as much Greek as V.P. and Martindale multiplied together. Here, as clearly as I can explain it, is Wierwille's error. "And when he could not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done." VP says you have to remove the comma between "ceased" and "saying." Why? Well, that's a long story. To find out why you have to sit for 30 minutes listening to VP rave about how it was NOT God's will for Paul to go to Jerusalem. Wait, wait, wait. Rewind. Reread. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER IT WAS THE WILL OF GOD FOR PAUL TO GO TO JERUSALEM. VP acts like this verse, as punctuated, suggests it was God's will for Paul to go to Jerusalem. Hello! What was he smoking? In what part of the verse did he read this? It does nothing of the sort. It was a saying. Paul's pals said "The will of the Lord be done" all the time. It was a much more natural expression in the Aramaic, a Jewish saying. It's a hopeful and pious expression of faith, "The will of the Lord be done." It can be translated into any language, and no expert would dispute that it was badly translated OR punctuated. The disciples said "The will of the Lord be done." It was a saying they had. This is the way they talked. Even if the will of the Lord was about NOT to be done, Wierwille fans, then the people around Paul STILL said, "The will of the Lord be done." It's that simple. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER GOD WANTED PAUL TO GO TO JERUSALEM. Okay, I admit it's not indisputable, but to me it's pretty blatant. While I'm on the line, I'll give you a personal favorite. "A man's gift maketh room for him, and bringeth him before great men." "This verse is about gift ministries. Apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. A man's gift makes room for him, and brings him before great men. That's talking about great men of the Word." Yeah, right, Mr. Flunked Out of Algebra. He went off to college (in Wisconsin) and got his future wife pregnant, a pretty nurse. Then he married her, and while supporting a suckling he managed to get into Princeton, the same Princeton from "A Beautiful Mind," and managed to get a master's degree. You would think he knew Greek and Hebrew forward and back, but then he went and got a mail-order doctorate. Real colleges would not necessarily have flunked him out, but they would sure as hell not be offering him a doctorate the first summer he showed up. "Doctor" Wierwille. Yeah, right. If you look this proverb up in any interlinear, commentary or annotated Bible, it will tell you that the word "gift" means "bribe." A man's bribe makes room for him, and brings him before great men. The "great men" are princes, kings, prime ministers, rich men, robbers, mafiosos, etc., etc. They are not "great men of the Word" like V.P. and Craig and Ralph Dubofsky and Johnny Townsend and the rest of the pantheon. If you hunt down every usage of the word "gift" (I think it's "mattanah") in the OT, you'll find that it never, ever, ever, ever, ever implies the English meaning of "gift" as something that resides inside you. A "gift" in this verse means a wad of money, some jewelry, a present, something physical, something one person hands to another. It NEVER means "gift" as in English, where you can have the gift of gab or the gift of song or the gift of being an apostle, prophet, pastor, evangelist or teacher. It's like the word "present." "A man's present makes room for him, and brings him before great men." Meaning money opens doors, you grease the hand that feeds you, you visit a big man and you need to bring a big gift. It's inconceivable for this particular word to mean "gift ministries" or spiritual enablements of any kind. I wrote to the Research Department about this in 1986, I think, the year I graduated from the 14th Corps. I think it was Bruce Mahone who answered me. He said something like, "Every commentary in the world agrees with your observations. But if the commentaries were always right, we wouldn't need PFAL." Yeah, right. He insisted that the popular Way version of the verse was accurate. Yeah, right. Need a company yes-man who'll consistently give you wrong answers? Just dial The Way International, Research Department. Oh, but WAIT. I hope I'm not the first to mention this, but (drum roll please) my all-time favorite candidate for the list of V.P.'s most blatant errors ........ The original sin was masturbation! Where he got this idea I DON'T, don't, don't want to know. = )

Hi, Zixar and Rafael and everyone else. Good thread. I agree with almost everyone, although I think V.P. was blowing hot air when he excised that comma in Acts 21:14: "And when he would not be persuaded, we ceased, saying, The will of the Lord be done." That sentence is punctuated perfectly. It has nothing to do with whether it was the will of the Lord for Paul to go to Jerusalem. Obviously it was not. But when Paul kept overruling objections, when he said he was ready to die in Jerusalem if necessary, the disciples finally gave up. "The will of the Lord be done," they said. It's a hopeful wish that what God wants will come to pass. It's a natural thing to say. It doesn't mean it was God's will for Paul to go to Jerusalem. The disciples were just hopeful that God's will would come to pass. VP's butchery of Matthew 27:46 is my personal favorite. Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? Every Hebrew I student knows that "lama" is why. It's a quotation of the psalm, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Before he died VP knew he was wrong on this, and he taught a corrected version to the Corps at Gunnison shortly before he died, but nobody made a tape and distributed it. Thanks for the memories, Karl