LKH

Would the key be "depending on the situation?" Since pretty much none of us were actually present during Rascal's experience or anyone else's for that matter (unless you were), how the heck would we know? and therefore be qualified to assign responsibility? Maybe this is as far as Oldiesman is going to get in acknowledging VPW's role in all of this. I would think, though, that we've answered the question as to whether It was Possible or not.

I'd agree with most of that on the face of it. My understanding is that you've been posting on Greasespot for a long time. Whether they're here for "help" or here to express an opinion, wouldn't you be perceptive enough to see in their posts, that they might still be hurt, and therefore, want to consider how you express your opinion? There's a lot of words in the English language, wouldn't you be able to be get your thoughts out there in some form of honest expression without "clobbering" someone over the head with it? It is possible, don't you think?

Thanks, Wordwolf, much appreciated! Oldiesman, if your screen name were Cher, I'd still believe you were a man and have no clue what its like to be deeply violated to the core of who you are, and then on top of that, have it be by someone you respected and admired. Women in the secular world weren't running to the police either back in the '70's-'80's regarding date rape or any kind of rape. Then add pregnancy and a decision whether to abort or not!!? Women overall are often in tough spots just in everyday living, let alone extreme circumstances such as what some of these women went through. The U.S. is highly regarded as a patriarchal society and TWI was a textbook sub-culture of that environment. That said, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, as is everyone on this site and in all of life, but the overall theme of your comments seem to me to be telling these women, Its your fault and Its Past, Get Over It! If I've misunderstood, please clarify. We can't legislate the time it takes for someone to heal and forgive. We can't measure how deep the wounds are for them. This website is supposed to be a safe forum for them and others, including you, I guess, to "vent" (a little simplistic of a term, maybe) and get some comfort, direction, perspective. I suppose yours could be considered one perspective but couldn't you come up with something more compassionate and helpful than "Its Your Fault!" I don't think this should be the only source for healing for a woman who got caught up in any of VPW's behavior or any other leaders. Hopefully, they're also seeking to overcome in other ways as well. But if they're out here on Greasespot trying to help other women or themselves, couldn't we show them a little more support. Your approach would appear to be a good example of why they never spoke up in the first place.

I'm new to all of this so I don't know as much about any of you as you all seem to. Oldiesman, are you saying just because a woman did end up "sleeping" with leadership, that VPW or any leader who indulged in that kind of activity is without any blame? That is was all the woman's fault?

Am I changing the subject of the thread if I ask if anyone has seen this all repeated in the secular world since they left TWI? I've worked for at least two companies where men in charge were charming and fatherly to the outside world, screamers and yellers to those close to them, and thought it their privilege to sleep with any number of women they chose to outside of their marriage. And their conduct fostered an environment where other men then thought that was acceptable behavior. That led to an entire environment where women were sexually harassed, forced to sleep with executives to keep their jobs, and on and on it went. These founders, presidents have been men who were also worshipped for their success and skill in their respective business fields. It's been downright dejavu'ish and very creepy. We, of course, would be expecting more from VP as leader of a Christian organization but to God, its all the same sinful behavior. absolute power corrupts absolutely??

It's good to hear that history, DontWrry, I came on in the mid-70's, when all that was already in place and very much accepted. Its not how its all presented in Elena's book, Living in Love, is it? I've just started to post but have visited Greasespot for a few years. It had seemed to me that many of those posting were from having been involved in the '90's and not from the time period that you were involved. I think it's great to have your insight! Thanks!!

Hey, Twinky - thanks for reminding me. This is about Liz. I'm thrilled that WrdsnWrks found her. That is so awesome! I was about to offer my subscription to a search service but looks like its not necessary. WrdsnWrks - I wanted to ask if Liz C. started in the 11th Corps? She sounds like someone who I was in the corps with when the 9th and 11th were together.

Hey, DontWorryBeHappy, I hope your comments about the Credit Union were more directed at EB and not the Credit Union. - I was there and helped get that Credit Union started! Helped with the start-up paperwork and everything. It was the brainchild of a man named John Blake, from North Carolina. He had a finance background and had been on staff for a number of years. When I worked in Finance my apprentice year, 1977-78, he was working on it then. He was very concerned how Way Corps had nothing to start with when they graduated and how quickly they could get into debt trying to get on their feet. He'd been wanting to do the Credit Union for a long time, trying to give believers an option for credit purchases with lower interest and better relationship than with banks. He also wanted to have finance classes, teaching people how to manage their money. There was a lot of difficulty in exapnding the definition of who could join, based on the national credit union organization definition of who constituted a group and could be eligible to join. I don't remember anymore if EB was the VP who finally approved that or if he just happened to be there when John finally had all the pieces in place and had the thing ready to go. I made good use of that Credit Union as did many others. It got me a small unsecured loan to get out of HQ in '83 and get back on the field. It was into the late '80's that it came under scrutiny and leadership began discouraging its use, moving toward the No-debt-at-all logic and evenutally was disbanded. I was very appreciative of its benefits as a young and broke Corps Grad, trying to get my financial act together and John's intentions were strictly motivated by his concerns and cares for the household. He had great practical financial advice and was a good friend. Save my comments on EB for another day!