smarter

Wow...I didn't get that from that quote at all. Are you really forgiving someone if you are just thinking of yourself? That is more of being on an ego trip than forgiveness, isn't it? If you are truly forgiving someone, aren't you supposed to be doing it for them, in spite of what they did? That is my understanding, anyway. You do prevent their behavior from destroying your heart if you truly forgive.

I wasn't thinking from a doctrinal perspective when I made my post. I do like your point, though. Their behavior is certainly destroying their heart. I am of the opinion that you can also let their behavior destroy your heart if you allow it, hence bitterness, anger, and mistrust of people in general as a result of mistreatment in the past. From your statement you seem to imply that you do not let the results ot their actions get into your head and sour your outlook on life. That is a good way to live, and I attempt to live that way, also. However, if I ever find that I need to have to have a doctrinal basis to forgive someone, then Matthew 18:21-22 will be good enough for me.

Something that I read that is pertinent....."Forgiveness doesn't excuse their behavior. Forgiveness prevents their behavior from destroying your heart.":

I have been to the Crystal Cathedral, although not when services were being held. The doors to the cathedral itself were locked at that time, but the out buildings containing the giftshop, bathrooms, etc were open. I didn't see any overt security personnel.

True story. My brother was in Scotland and decided to attend a church service. He enterd a church and sat down to listen to the service. One of the ushers asked him to leave because he didn't belong to that church.

(Christianity is such a funny strange religion as practiced by so many throughout history - here a guy says He's come to draw all near, challenges exclusivity both culturally and socially, champions for the weak and sick who pretty much get screwed coming and going, respects children, women, talks to tax collectors for God's sake and even gives the wealthy a break - basically runs a shop that caters to anyone anytime.....and then ends up with followers who spend most of their time figuring out ways to exclude anyone they can lest I dunno, someone get a seat at the Heavenly Banquet that isn't dressed properly. It's weird that what is said to be the most powerful message to come down the pike since "Hey look at this! - round things roll!" gets turned into what amounts to a square hula hoop.) This should be plastered on billboards all over the country.

With apologies to Johnny Cash.......... TWI, you've been livin' hell to me You've hosted me since nineteen seventy-five I've seen 'em come and go and I've seen them die And long ago I stopped askin' why TWI, I hate every inch of you. You've cut me and have scarred me thru an' thru. But I walked out a wiser stronger man; Mister Martindale why can't you understand. TWI, what good do you think you do? Do you think I'll be different when you're through? You bent peoples' hearts and minds and you warped their soul, And your BRC walls turn my blood a little cold. TWI, may you rot and burn in hell. May your walls fall and may I live to tell. May all the world forget you ever stood. And may all the world regret you did no good. TWI, you've been livin' hell to me.

Don't know how similar my situation was to yours, but after my Way wife and I divorced, and I started dating again, I adhered to a policy of openess about my former Way association. I didn't have any problems from it. I am married again, ironically to a relative of a famous evangelist. Even she understands that the old can be cast away.

I am going to wish everyone.....MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!A whole lot better than what they tried to get us to say (happy household holidays).

By opening this site I think Paw did more good for more people than the Way ever did. Although I had learned about the abuse from one of the victims, I was able to get a better grasp of how pervasive the evil really was after joining Greasespot. My attitude grew from being glad I left and got on with my life to being glad for the others who left and hoping they are able to get on with their lives. I wish everyone well and hope your lives are filled with love, joy and happiness.

Broken Arrow gets it.

I was on the way back from a showing of that movie where Martindale danced. I realized that the Way had become a big waste of time. I did not attend ministry functions above local level after that. I still continued with the local fellowship until I heard about the womanizing among the leadership. I had only stayed with the Way because I thought that was where I could learn about God. When I realized it was a sham, I was gone. I didn't have second thoughts.

I can recall only one bad experience with anyone higher on the tree than "Twig Leader". Other than that, it was all "Joe Blow Believer" acting like they were more spiritual than others. I believe that thinking we were learning the Bible as it had not been taught since the first century made the average Wayfer arrogant. Anyone still think they are "tuned into God"? Realizing you were played for a fool is humbling isn't it?

You, Sir, have a way with words.........Every place I lived while involved with The Way, there were people who screwed around. I attributed it to people having a weak moment. When I learned that it was endemic to the organization as a whole...all the way to the top.....I ceased my association immediately. ANYONE who would use their position of authority to influence another to sexually service them is a P.O.S., no matter how caring and generous they may seem to the general public.

Waysider, thank you for posting "The Red Thread". I cut and pasted it and emailed it to Oral Roberts' niece.

I think that the potential public outrage would make it extremely difficult. I don't like the idea of making it any easier for them.

The link that was provided gave a decent breakdown of how people get appointed to the FCC. Ultimately it will be political appointees deciding who is being fair and who isn't. It would open a potential nightmare of claims that a broadcaster didn't go as far as the claimant wanted in attempting to be fair. Eventually a broadcaster could decide that airing controversial subjects isn't worth the hassle. That may not actually happen, but someone wanting to shut up someone else would have wide open avenue for doing so.

Political appointees deciding what is fair? Good luck on that. I am not a member of a political party. That doesn't mean that what I think is fair would be thought of as fair by someone else. What one person considers a moderate position, another considers as extremism. A person's own prejudices affect their decisions, even if they tell themselves otherwise.

And who decides who is on the FCC?

Who determines what is "fair"?

Well said.

Some rememberances from my mother about my father.....My father was one of eight children raised on a farm. He didn't graduate from high school until he was twenty because my grandfather needed him to help work the farm, which kept him out of school a lot. My father never liked farming, although he was very good at it. He was always talking about how he would rather own a store or some other business. My grandfather suffered a series of strokes, and had been advised by his doctor that the next stroke would probably be his last. He called his now grown children into a family meeting to ask who would volunteer to take care of their mother after he had passed. One after the other declined for various reasons, mainly because my grandmother didn't like any of the people her children had married. When my grandfather asked my father if he would stay on the farm to take care of his mother, my father said, "I will do anything you ask of me, Pa." So my father stayed on the farm and took care of his mother for the rest of her life. There was a woman who did seasonal work on the farm, mostly in the summer. After my father had died, she asked my mother if she could do some work to earn some extra money, so my mother hired her to hoe the weeds out of the garden. It was a summer day in South Carolina, and eventually the woman came to the door and asked if she could have a cloth to wipe the sweat out of her eyes as she worked in the garden. My mother gave her one of my father's old shirts to use as a rag. Later on, my mother looked out of the window and saw the woman standing in the garden crying. My mother went out to her and asked what was wrong. The woman said that one day she was getting a bucket of water out of the ditch when my father happened to drive by. He saw her and stopped and asked if she had running water in her house. She told him no. He paid someone to go to her house and drill a well for her and put a pump in for her.

The "revvie" deal was pervasive throughout the Way, leadership and twig members alike, although it was worse with Corps people. It seemed like once someone learned a little of the Way's teachings, it went to their head and arrogance ensued. They used the "revelation" spiel to try to get you to do what THEY wanted, and who knows, maybe they believed they were really getting revelation from God. Either way, it was as if they believed only they were getting revelation from God and not the people with whom they were dealing. There were plenty of Way people who weren't above spreading some story about me which was a flat out lie. If they were really listening to God, then they would have known better.