penworks
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Posts posted by penworks
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Are you writing your cult story? Do you want to learn about memory and the art of writing memoir?
Numerous books, seminars, and podcasts are available on that topic, including one huge favorite of mine by Judith Barrington, Writing the Memoir: A practical guide to the craft, personal challenges, and ethical dilemmas of writing your true stories.
HOWEVER a surprising source that gave me some in-depth understanding abiout memory and writing memories is a book by Bart D. Ehrman about the New Testament:
A bit from the introduction:
"... there are forty to sixty-five years separating Jesus' death and our earliest accounts of his life, and we need to know what was happening to the memories of Jesus precisely during that time gap. I approach these questions from fields of study that I have never written about before and that many New Testament scholars have simply never explored, including cognitive psychology, cultural anthropology, and sociology. The intriguing research done in these other fields can help us unpack some of the greatest mysteries confronting both scholars of the New Testament and general readers: what can we know about the man Jesus and about how--and why--the memories of Jesus were altered in the years before the Gospels were produced?"
Try it. You might like it.
Attached is the FREE first chapter of Undertow, also available on my website at https://charleneedge.com
Cheers!
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6 hours ago, chockfull said:
From a pure finance perspective this is a position arising from the demand for PLAF in 3rd world countries.
What's the reason for using the incorrect abbreviation, PLAF, for the name of Wierwille's Bible class, which was Power for Abundant Living? (PFAL)
Folks who read posts here who were not in The Way find things like that (also things like "Way Corpse" instead of Way Corps) confusing and incomprehensible. Just saying...
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One of the best sources I have found on this topic of control is Robert Jay Lifton's little but powerful book:
Losing Reality: On cults, cultism, and the mindset of polititcal and religious zealotry
"Lifton has spent decades exploring psychological extremism. His pioneering concept of the "Eight Deadly Sins" of ideological totalism--originally devised to identify "brainwashing" (or "thought reform") in political movements--has been widely quoted in writings about cults, and embraced by members and former members of religious cults seeking to undertstand their experiences."
When I gave my presentation "A Cult Insider's Story," which was recorded and is on YouTube, I discussed Lifton's work.
The guy wearing the red scarf, introduces me:
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Charity, to answer your question:
"but a child being told he/she must greet "all" older people with a kiss on the lips which then opened a door for being sexual abused is atrocious.
Was this expectation for children of the corps?"
My answer:
I am Charlene Lamy Edge, author of my cult memoir, Undertow. I was in the 2nd Way Corps, 1971-1973, held at Way HQ in Ohio, run by VPW himself, and I escaped HQ in 1987.
VPW never forced this kind of kiss on me, although after I left The Way, I learned that he and his brother Harry did that to other women, as recounted by Kristen Skedgell in her memoir, Losing The Way.
There was a teaching that referred to a Scripture that said to greet one another with a holy kiss, but in my experience that was a kiss on the cheek.
This kiss on the mouth business was NEVER taught to us back then, nor were we told to force our kids to do it! I do not know who originated this practice.
I have a child who was born in 1975 when I was a Way leader. She was 12 when we escaped HQ in 1987. Thankfully, she never was subjected to that kind of male behavior in The Way, for which I am eternally grateful, but believe me, I am heartbroken over those innocents who were.
I think we know by now here at GSC that Way-promoted practices of all sorts depended on your geographical location in The Way org., who your local leader was, what teachings were circulating (there never was a "quality control" process to monitor in what ways things were taught), the time period during which you were involved in The Way, and your own personal decisions.
Like any sensible person hearing this story, I am infuriated by the damage done as described by this woman on the podcast.
As awful as it is to hear it, we need it and others like it, to gain understanding and heal.
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Another survivor testimony, this one from a 2nd gen. Way org. then offshoot survivor:
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On 7/26/2023 at 6:14 AM, Twinky said:
"a right-wing gospel conflating Christianity and patriotism"
US "evangelical Christianity" is nothing like evangelism or Christianity in other countries. Thank God.
Along these lines, another great read on the topic is Stephen Prothero's book, American Jesus: How the Son of God Became a National Hero.
From the description:
"Jesus the Black Messiah; Jesus the Jew; Jesus the Hindu sage; Jesus the Haight-Asbury hippie: these Jesuses join the traditional figure of Jesus Christ in American Jesus, which was acclaimed upon publication in hardcover as an altogether fresh exploration of American history--and as the liveliest book about Jesus to appear in English in years."
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2 hours ago, chockfull said:
One other thing that came to mind reading some of the responses is that Christian Fundamentalism is a big business, and a lot of the artifacts around it support that big business. Scrolls, software, archaeology, philosophical writings and commentaries. I guess if there is a demand for something individuals will dream up ways to produce a supply to meet that demand.
Along these lines, for a while on my blog I wrote posts in a series called "Fundamentalist Fridays." Here's one about Christian Nationalism, which has become more front-and-center in this country than when I wrote this post in 2017.
Enjoy!
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Yes, there was an OED in the research room.
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Along these lines, I think of the philosopher Hereclitus saying the only thing for certain is change. Something like that.
Speaking of change ... here's a little peek into Way archives: 25th Way Anniversary brochure. Notice the PFAL "endorsement" quotes, especially one by W*alter C*ummins.
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By the way, one thing I like about The End of Biblical Studies is the well researched information about the many Bible companies, university classes on the Bible, and the tons of Christian churches promoting Bibles that keep the cycle of studying ancient Scriptures going to the exlusion of other writings.
I think it's good to read a book before we criticize or discard it.
During my post-Way journey, I learned I could actually live a good, ethical, and valualbe life without reading or staying hooked on the Bible. That's just me. I realized VPW had brainwashed me into thinking I could not live without "The Bible," (that term is meaningless because there are so many kinds of versions of Bibles there isn't just one Bible). I found I had been addicted to having a Bible be the centerpiece of my life. I let myself consider the fact that there were millions of good people over centuries and centuries who lived loving and productive lives before there were ever any Bibles in existence.
This is not to say there aren't many good and valuable lessons found in Bibles. For myself, I just had to acknowledge what these Bibles were before I attached value to them. Finally, I stepped back and saw that Bibles are anthologies of ancient writings by men, arranged in a certain order, which can vary. So, too, does content of Bibles vary. I asked myself whether they were helpful for me today? In what way are they useful to modern man?
Just for the record, here's where I'm "at" these days:
Charlene’s Post-Cult Nonreligious Alternative | Charlene L. Edge (charleneedge.com)
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Love that quote from Alan Watts. His work has meant a lot to me over the years.
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1 hour ago, Rocky said:
Avalos' book sounds VERY intriguing.
Unfortunately, I cannot find this title in either of the public libraries I regularly borrow from and Amazon sells it for (hardcover) $29 and (kindle) $31.
Do you know where I might find it for less?
Maybe used bookstores have it. I checked Thriftbooks but it's temporarily out.
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On 7/16/2023 at 8:43 PM, So_crates said:
Also, where were the gift ministries? Aren't the prophets tasked with the job of keeping the MOG on the straight and narrow?
Sounds like a question for Walt*r Cumm*ns, the one VPW put in charge of "biblical research."
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Speaking of cherry picking definitions, what would happen if folks just quit doing "word studies" and let words sit in their own context where you can see how they are used? For those seriously interested in a radical change regarding "biblical studies," one enlightening book is The End of Biblical Studies by Victor Avalos. Give it a try. It shows how Bible companies keep the cycle going, and much more.
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Glad to hear Undertow helped you, Logicisgreatstuff. Your generation of Wayfers is near and dear to my heart, since my daughter was 12 years old when we escaped HQ. She reminds me that I said over and over that I wrote Undertow for your generation, since most (certainly not all) in mine were/are too brainwashed to consider reading it.
By the way, logic, too, is near and dear to my heart. One of my favorite college courses post-TWI was Symbolic Logic.
Cheers!
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I remember when that "show" was put on in the WOW auditorium. OMG. We in research were rolling our eyes, or rather puking behind the scenes because we knew the "research" behind it was bogus. So did WJC, but he didn't confront LCM about it, just let it go ... one more nail in the coffin as far as I was concerned. I include details about this in Undertow. It was definitely a turning point.
Ugh. Found out later, including in the well researched book,The Cult That Snapped, that there was much "hanky panky" going on with cast members, some strong testimonies in the book regarding LCM and the woman who played "the seed of the serpent." Disgusting and very sad, indeed.
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15 hours ago, OldSkool said:
Penworks, can you explain wht the relationship between the way international and local towns such as New Knoxville? I always caught bits and pieces of various points of contention, both from the size of the ROA and basic pettiness. Don't know how much you had to deal with back in the day. When I came to HQ in 1999 we were told basically, in so many words, not to interact with locals. In retrospect I wonder what that was all about? Wierwille's reputation? anywho. Thanks for considering.
Oldskool, it was complicated. Back in 1971 when I was in summer school at HQ, lots of us went to Adolf's Restaurant on the main drag in N.K. for beer or a sandwich. Adolf waited on us himself and we developed a nice rapor. In a newspaper article in about 1974 or 75 that mainly featured a ROA event, Adolph was interviewed and said some nice things about Way believers. I have that article somewhere buried in a box of stuff I referred to when writing Undertow. Too lazy at the moment to dig it out...
Of course, I'm sure Adolph didnt mind the influx of money coming in from Way folks, escpecially during the first ROA in 1971. Later, while in the Corps 1971-1973, we continued to pour our tiny bit of allowance money (we got $20 a month for notepaper, shampoo, etc.) into eating there once in a while, although VPW preferred we "stay on grounds" with "the household of believers." So he started cooking hamburgers on a grill outside his house for us, taking away our excuse for going into town. Anything to keep us from interacting with outsiders who might ask too many questions, although we were supposed to "witness" to them and bring them to Sunday night services.
At least once, some rowdies from town raced down Wierwille Rd. in a car and shot a hole in the Welcome sign down at the corner of Highway 29 and Wierwille Rd. It's the odd, round Way sign featured on the cover of The Cult That Snapped by Karl Kahler. So that didn't help relations with the town.
But neither did VPW help keep things friendly, because he railed against church ministers there.
Flash forward to 1984-1987 when I worked at HQ. Many of us on staff had kids in the public school in N.K., and ironically, some of the town kids were nicer to my daughter, for instance, than Way kids because Way kids put pressure on her to "witness" to the townies and she felt uncomfortable with that. I learned this from her AFTER we escaped.
Oh, one more thing. Before the Executive Office Building was built in 1973 or maybe late 1972, while in the Corps, we had to do our laundry off grounds. The closest laundromat was in St. Mary's, so we "interacted" with locals there, but only to "witness to them," at least that was my experience. Not sure what else may have been going on with locals over the years ...
That's all that comes to mind, just now.
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To keep things interesting on this thread ... here's one of my blog posts at https://charleneedge.com dated: May 10, 2018. It's a letter from a pastor in New Knoxville, OH.
Echo in New Knoxville, Ohio: Minister Reads Undertow | Charlene L. Edge (charleneedge.com)
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Speaking of studying scripture, if you don't know, I was on The Way's biblical research team. That's where I had my realization that VPW's style of research wasn't for me (understatement).
Rather than writing more on that here, I invite you to check out my presentation on YouTube. It's the only one of the more than 20 live presentations I gave over recent years about my Way experience. I'm retired from giving talks now. This is my legacy video.
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All the best to you, T-Bone! Take good care of yourself and enjoy your life's journey.
Cheers,
Charlene
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12 hours ago, chockfull said:
Thx for the interview links C. They are interesting reads and I appreciate you doing them and sharing them.
I personally strongly connected with the feeling of getting my kids out from the influence of TWI for their lives and am thankful they have grown up outside that influence and are free to seek life liberty and the pursuit of happiness unencumbered by the bondage elements from a cult that I was faced with.
Thanks, Chockful. I'm glad to share that interview here. One of my favorite questions from Prof. Moss and my answer:
MM: In the last chapter, “Turning the Tide,” you write about the denial of feelings that had become so prevalent in The Way’s teachings. Could you please elaborate on that aspect?
CLE: One of Wierwille’s pet phrases was “Feelings come and go, but the Word of God liveth and abideth forever.” What he meant was that we were not to trust our feelings because they change all the time. And because they change, Wierwille told us they were unreliable sources for truth about ourselves. When our feelings contradicted Wierwille, we were trained to reject those feelings. One important example of this from my own life is in Undertow: Even when my gut feelings told me that the man I married had betrayed me and was not good for me, I was supposed to reconcile with him because the Bible said to forgive.
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In 2017, I was invited to speak to an American Studies class at Leuphana Universität Lüneburg in Germany. Afterwards, the professor, Dr. Maria Moss (also an editor of their American Studies Journal) asked to do a print interview with me. Here's the two-part result:
INTERVIEW
American Studies Journal.
Institute of English Studies and of the Zentraleinrichtung Moderne Sprachen (ZeMoS) at Leuphana Universität Lüneburg, Germany.
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Hello, Greasespotters.
Looking back on our experiences in TWI, I think many of us can related to the content in the attached FREE article I re-published on my website. It's by Michael Langone who holds a PhD in counseling psychology and is the now-retired executive director of International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA), which provides information, education, and help to those adversely affected by or interested in cultic and other “high-control” groups and relationships.
In my opinion, this article well describes aspects of cult ensnarement. Are we glad we escaped, one way or another?
Enjoy reading the "3-D Cult Experience."
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On 6/16/2023 at 5:01 PM, Rocky said:
What a powerful pair of sentences. When I reflect on your story (of your experience here), I can't help but try to quantify our "agency," or free will.
Reflecting back to MY "divorce" from the cult, I see how important social influences are in exercising our free will. Yet, even after having broken socially (with support from others who left at the same time) from twi, it still, for far too long of a time, kept me under its influence NOT by way of biblically-based behavioral practices, but by unwritten and highly toxic mores.It took me years to minimize twi's role in my life.
I'm very thankful you persevered in getting your story into print.
I appreciate your kind comments, Rocky.
Over the years, I've written about fundamentalism and cults on my blog. Some readers here may be interested in the background of fundamentalism and what makes The Way fundamentalist in its approach to and application of Scripture, so in the attached file, I share what I've learned about that.
Stay well everyone!
Charlene
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Over 900 men, women, and children serving as Way Ambassadors?
in About The Way
Posted · Edited by penworks
To this question, chockfull said "No."
In my view, the answer can be "Yes and No." Just saying "no" is a sweeping generalization, which I think disregards the individual journeys that many of us were on in our quest to know, love, and serve God. Yes, certainly VPW made himself the authority on the bible and the center of the organization, and yes, the Way Tree organization grew into a heirarchy of mostly men giving commands and expecting obedience, but there are other things to remember, at least about some of us who were searching for a way to fulfill our part in the body of Christ and for "truth." This was real for me and for a lot of other people throughout the years.
From my experience in 1970 when I was recruited to The Way at the East Carolina Univ. fellowship, it sure looked to me as if there was "some hype and commitment to the underlying Word of God ..." as Rocky put it. Not sure what the "underlying Word of God" means, but for me, I got hooked on the bible teachings presented as "the accurate Word of God" and the chance to make a commitment to a life pleasing to God, living according to teachings aimed at "building virtue," (again, something Rocky wrote) for instance axioms found in the Book of Ecclesiastes, and in Proverbs, and in the N.T.
In my memoir, Undertow, I try to show I was one of those people who joined not for the chance to have power over other people, but as I put it at the end of the first chapter, "Hiding in Plain Sight":
"On the drive home, nudging my car through the snowstorm, I leapt
from one memory to another, ashamed that I allowed myself to get
sucked into The Way, and that Wierwille used me to spread his propaganda.
Dr. Schaffer, an unexpected humanitarian, held me steady for
the moment, but I feared for my mental health, even my physical
well-being. I’d discovered The Way’s underbelly, bloody-black and swollen
with greed, and nothing could make me stay. In the beginning, I
only wanted to know, love, and serve God and understand the Bible.
What harm could that possibly bring?"
Hiding-in-Plain-Sight.pdf
Hiding-in-Plain-Sight.pdf