Jump to content
GreaseSpot Cafe

Broken Arrow

Members
  • Posts

    1,609
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    28

Posts posted by Broken Arrow

  1. The only time ever given to inrez corps was "self-structured."

    Note to self: THAT should have been a red flag of things to come.

    Yes! Self-structured, not "free" time! Geez louise, don't ya know that if we call it "free time" it would connote that the rest of our time was in bondage, and a good Way follower "freely" avails himself to the ministry. I said, FREELY! Now no more questions until after session 12 please!

  2. The theatrics of "Living Victoriously" and Wierwille's 40-years of ministry in 1982 had the makings

    of a small-town revival. The music, the fanfare, the buzz, the special seating, the passing of

    the mantle to craig, and wierwille riding off in his fire-engine-red twighopper.

    And, less than three years later..........wierwille was dead.

    Yes, but we were all given leather-bound Receiving the Holy Spirit Today books during that time! How benevolent!

  3. 3. Shy Away from Change. Mentally strong people embrace change and they welcome challenge.

    Their biggest “fear,” if they have one, is not of the unknown, but of becoming complacent and

    stagnant. An environment of change and even uncertainty can energize a mentally strong person

    and bring out their best.

    Wierwille proclaimed twi to be......'The New Dynamic Church.'

    Yet, NOTHING could be further from the truth. Wierwille's twi was a cyclical clone-fest

    around this cornfield cult. Run, re-run and re-rerun pfal over and over and over again.

    The doctrine was "Running pfal classes IS moving the word."

    The whole thing was a static, never-change, sham !!

    Ever notice that the strong-willed, independent souls LEFT RATHER QUICKLY.

    They saw the complacent, stagnant cesspool......and it stank.

    The strong embrace CHANGE that brings productive results.

    Skyrider I'm curious. When did you obtain these very interesting insights you have? Was it after or before you left TWI? Did you leave during one of the great purges, or did you finally personally see something and leave on your own?

    As for me, I left when it was "safe" to leave when Geer read POP. I went with that offshoot for awhile, then another, then I briefly involved myself in another cult not TWI related, THEN I finally realized not only was it all BS, but that a lot of ME was BS and I had personal issues that led me into cult-like groups. I was the one that needed to change and when I slowly did, I stopped looking for a strong leader to validate me. But I'm rambling. I'm just interested to hear if you were strong enough on your own somehow to see the "man behind the curtain".

  4. Relating to something said earlier in the thread about Wierwille not being confronted with the demonic, er I mean devil spirits, I once heard a story from a 6th Corps guy. The story goes, and I hear from others that were also present that this guy took someone to HQ for a Sunday Night Service. This person had mental issues but the Way believer thought he would be healed or at least helped by hearing "The Word".

    As Wierwille began teaching, this person stood up and yelled, "I am Jesus Christ!" One version of the story says that Wierwille tried to cast the spirit out and failed, then Walter C. and Howard A. each grabbed an arm and escorted the man out. The other story said that Wierwille did nothing and WC and HA escorted him out. I will say that I personally heard WW relate a story where he said that the devil spirit "just wouldn't leave". It was clear, though, whether he was referring to this particular incident.

    Where both stories agree is that Wierwille did nothing for the troubled person. So Wierwille was, in fact, confronted by a devil spirit and came up short. That's assuming that the problem with the individual was in fact demonization.

    I have no problem with someone who believes in the gifts of the Spirit falling short. We're human and often fall short. However he purported himself to be some sort of super spiritual expert who was so wise he was beyond failure or imperfection.

  5. If I'm remembering properly, during the advanced class Wierwille talked about going to all sorts of spiritualist demonstrations and activities where God taught him a heck of a lot of stuff about "the spirit realm." Then he told us not to try to do it ourselves, that God had been protecting him so he could learn things and teach us, but since we had the benefit of Wierwille's experiences, God wouldn't protect us the way God had protected him...

    Did anybody else come away with that impression? Or am I retrojecting?

    No Steve, you're not retrojecting. He as much said those very words. His logic was that there was no one teaching it so God had to teach him directly. Therefore he was protected.

  6. I don't recall this one at all. I do, however, remember VPW preaching, at the Advanced Class, from what we now know, thanks to the internet, to be an Oral Roberts sermon known as The Fourth Man. It contains the now famous Red Thread. As was typical of Wierwille, he gave no indication it was not his own work.

    Here is

    Here is

    .

    In my Advanced Class, VP credited Oral Roberts. But after playing the sermon he went on and on about how it broke his heart that "Oral Roberts sold out to the Methodists". Whatever that was supposed to mean. I can't remember his exact words but basically Wierwille said he the only one now standing on the Word. He didn't use those words, he was too clever for that.

  7. The only true discussion you can have with a person is to be able to look into their face and see their eyes. And if you or they are physically blind, then the voice says everything.

    Yes, it's a generational thing but also seems to encompass the older generations. I had a speech professor in college (Micheal Gilerokos) who stated that one of the best art forms one will ever master is to hold a conversation.

    Internet email, texts, etc. are all a means of communication but it (they) is not holding a conversation.

    Well said! I'm afraid it's becoming a lost art though. Really, it doesn't appear that anyone is actually interested in listening nowadays. It seems anymore that people just want to yell out their opinion. There doesn't seem be a desire to find middle ground anymore. Christians are among the worst offenders.

  8. ".....about two years earlier at a camp fire in NC vpw stated that the original sin by Adam was masturbation."

    Finally, I've *met* someone who heard the same teaching I did. I heard it in CF&S in about 1974. There was a bit more added to it, as well, by that time.

    "In all the hind sight I "believe" that twi wanted folks to fornicate within the fold and marry in order to increase the twi numbers: primarily that it would take both to agree to leave twi (one will always want to stay)or through offspring if both decide to stay."

    In FellowLaborers, we were not allowed to date outside the program and needed special permission to leave the compound for anything personal. It was never written or stated directly but we were expected to marry Way believers, preferably at the same level of commitment.(ie: advanced class grad, leadership program grad, etc.)

    I heard that same teaching about the original sin but it was the revised '75 rendition. I didn't see how VP reached his conclusion but I was told that that was because I didn't have the scope of The Word that VP had.

  9. Way International bumper stickers: I forgot all about those, Uncle Harry went around putting them on visitor vehicles at the Sunday night teachings at HQ (was that a true story?).

    I am doing a house move and have hundreds of pounds of old twi stuff (boxes of books and tapes) and I know it includes some bumber stickers (both the older dark green and the newer - at the time - lime green ones - circa 1970's). Good practical joke, provide those to your neighbors/friends to place on your car. I know it's great glue, took me a long time to scrape em off me and my wife's vehicle bumpers.

    Learning point: do not park on the street if you are overly active/informative on FaceBook.

    Anyone want an old blue song book?

    YOU HAVE CONTRABAND!!! Those songbooks were supposed to be DESTROYED years ago!! You may expect a visit from the Blue Songbook Police anytime now!

  10. I suppose it could be a political topic but I was more focused on people's mindsets. I find it ludicrous that people could be so offended because a "sacred" poem (I don't really believe it's sacred but some do) is recited in a language other than English. Even though the words mean the same thing. So I'm not really discussing the appropriateness of the Pledge of Allegiance itself in this particular thread.

  11. There's twi, and there's making sense.

    Sensibly, twi should have left groups intact until there were more than 8 regular

    attendees plus new arrivals. Then they should have considered how to make a

    division so you had at least 4 regular attendees plus new arrivals.

    Yeah, they even taught that in "The Way Tree" seminar. They just didn't do it.

  12. You're pretty good at misrepresenting yourself, Waysider.

    The deliverance that so many people got through twi can only come from God. Sometimes it was as a product, sometimes it was not. What's wrong with products? Religion is always cranking out endless rules which God does not require. Thou shalt not have products. You can't learn about Jesus in a classroom. No wonder so many people want to join "cults".

    I still say, go for it Johniam. Sex sells. You have such great wisdom. There are plenty of hurting people out there who will hang on your every word and make you their guru. I mean, why all this talk?

  13. Of course I've heard of it. Even David Craley in his book 'In search of the light;the hope of glory' said he kind of got witnessed to that way. Eew. Even the 5th WC principle, make your physical body as dynamic as possible, whatever, could be inferred as that, couldn't it?

    But it is certainly relevant that everybody believes that sex sells. I was a fast food asst mgr for 6 years and we most definitely put the hottest girls on front counter during busy periods. Yeah, we were sexist pigs. So what?

    Bottom line is, people actually got delivered, but now decades later somebody who changed their mind and thinks it was all bogus says "hair raising stories" etc.

    Deliverance is in the eye of the beholder, eh?

    Sure, in marketing sex sells. I doubt that in your fast-food scenario,however, you had the girls flirt specifically with, or go out with people to bring them in as customer.

    But your assertion that sex and sex appeal as good marketing is well taken. It just shows that the mentality of TWI and you is to market supposed biblical teaching as a product, for the sole purpose of driving sales.

    If you think that's okay, then you were in good company in TWI. Personally, it's not the way I would prefer to represent God. In the Bible, He is all about bringing people to repentance and having a relationship with them. He is also all about building moral character.

    Promoting a ministry with an appeal to one's lusts sort of goes against all of that, but that's just my opinion. You go ahead and promote your religion, ideals or whatever anyway you wish.

  14. Actually I did hear top leaders encourage using this "technique". They didn't refer to it as "date and switch", and they didn't refer to it as "whoring for Jesus". We were just told to "use what we had" and that was in reference to sex appeal and attractiveness.

    It wasn't instruction to go out and sexually seduce people but it was encouragement to be attractive with a view to attracting others in. There was no formal training or anything or anything like that.

  15. Back in the early 1970's there was actual growth taking place in Cleveland. Despite that, the phony "twig split" thing still took place, making it appear that a branch had grown from X twigs to X2 twigs. Looking back, I think some of that may have been the result of local leaders trying to pad their resumes to ensure acceptance into the Corps. (The Corps was new at that time so just being accepted into the program was seen as a major personal accomplishment.)

    Yeah, I remember that guy who came into Cleveland and the area supposedly doubled within some phenomenal amount of time. He was held up as an example of what could happen if you just had the believing. It was later that I heard in a leader's meeting that all he did was double the amount of "twigs". Some amazing growth guru, eh? Soon after he went back to where he came from.

  16. Good topic!

    When I got in, which was in 1975, it was exciting, it was growing. Twigs were wonderful. They were full of love and acceptance. I ran a twig and we had coffeehouses in our house and it was packed, I mean packed, you couldn't always find a place to sit. There were people on the floor, on the porch. But, then came the "leadership" and it was like they stepped into "God's Shoes" Instead of God being the last word on things, they were. Needless to say, all those wonderful, good things started decreasing and being replaced by "Things you need to do to be spiritual".....it became a "works" thing.

    I was a twig leader in a city in the south after a corp couple left and the fellowship doubled like to about 25 or so.....well the "leadership" decided to bring in a corps person and they split the fellowship....he got 19 of them and I got 6 people. You can get the drift of that....

    I have to say I know some corps that were absolutely wonderful.....my branch leader on my wow year was one of them.....really tuned into God and it was a time of love and grace. We had lots of growth.

    My experience......

    Probably came into the Corps with those traits. I can guarantee you it wasn't imparted to him/her.

  17. I doubt it. From what I understand, you have to be scrutinized closely before you're allowed access to the holy grounds.

    Whatever became of "You're always welcome at The Way."?

    Well, you ARE as long as you're wearing your name tag.

  18. Jeez MRAP! You expect me to actually have a point? Man, you have high standards.

    I don't think it's a horrible affront to the United State or anyone else to have the Pledge of Allegiance recited in a language besides English. If people of another ethnicity living in the U.S. are showing allegiance to the U.S. in whatever language I think it's a good thing. I've had emails come to my personal inbox saying things like we have to act NOW because folks are reciting the Pledge in Spanish, as if that's a sign of the country being overrun. In my opinion such thinking belies a bigotry that exists in a lot of people and I think that's very very sad. So I'm still at a bit of a loss as to why some people get so "jacked up" about what language someone recites the Pledge in.

    Having said that, I think you and others make a good point when you say the principal mishandled the situation. It was fairly easy to foresee that doing this would cause a stir and, right or wrong, some people would be offended. I had not thought of that.

    I also think Twinky makes a good point when she mentions that actions are more important than words. Could it be that we make too big of a deal about the Pledge in the first place? I don't think so but then again I was born and raised in the U.S. Nevertheless, to have love and respect for one's nation is a good thing as long as those things stay within bounds.

    • Upvote 1
  19. Interesting Posts.......

    My question is.....what did the military techniques have anything to do with spiritual principles. I remember hearing about the gun training at Emporia and thinking....what? Gun Training, kind of scared me that would be taught in a bible based group.....and then someone said well it's Gun Safety training. But later I had heard it was about how to be ready in case of attack. Just some strange training......LEAD........Survival training.....At Rome City......How to kill chickens.......How to string chairs, How to Teach....tell them what you are going to teach, teach it and then tell them what you taught......How to pack your suitcase......And I'm sure that some of this stuff was good to know....but I think it all got carried away and ridiculous. Especially all these exercises at Emporia to make people be unified and together......How did this have anything to do with biblical studies??

    Thanks again for your posts.....

    BTW, unless there was some clandestine training going on that I didn't know about, the "gun training" we did at Emporia was anything but military training. You went to somebody's farm where they had hay bales lined up. An instructor would hand you a shotgun. In my case it was a 12-gauge. You pointed the barrel in the direction of the hay bale and pulled the trigger. You got to do that 3 times, then you went back to the campus. Hardly military training. Before that you spent several hours in the classroom listening to someone drone on about gun safety. Stuff like, if you're walking through a pasture and you come to a fence, don't throw your over your gun because it might discharge. Or, if you're walking next to another hunter, don't walk with your gun carelessly aimed at him. Walk with the barrel down and pay attention. I'm not defending it and I have no idea what it had to do with leadership training, but I don't want to insult people that were actually in the military with saying the Corps received that type of training. If we were attacked, we were supposed to run, actually. Oh yeah, we were supposed have supplies at the ready and our car gas tanks no lower than half.

    I've concluded that that was a scare tactic to keep engender and "us vs. them" mindset.

    Karl Kahler in his book, The Cult that snapped, referred to some type of military exercises that took place, but those were supposedly with people that were former military. I never saw any of that but then again it would have been kept from me if that did in fact happen.

×
×
  • Create New...