Rocky

The answer is multifold. Sure, believing and holding forth the story for God's protection was only one part of it. The reality was more complicated. Any religion seeking to stir up the dust and challenge entrenched church empires was bound to be a magnet attracting disturbed individuals. Further complications entered when the hired heavies (official bless patrol, would get LEO certification and carry firearms). With that came another level of arrogance both on the part of the MOGs and those who carried the hardware.

It was before Loy was in charge, yes. Westboro, at the time, must have been still trying to settle on its identity, who do they hate most. It wasn't about gays for either group, as intensely as it became only a few years later.

TWI

I clearly remember one ROA night time bless patrol shift keeping an eye on the protesters from Westboro Baptist Church. This was well before the Westboro folks had become well-known throughout the country. Same flavor they retained for the decades to come. Hateful signs in abundance. It was a very cold (maybe down into the 50s F.) August mid 1970s night in rural Ohio, before The Way began holding ROAs at HQ. I remember the yellow Bless Patrol hats and standing (shivering) with a guy (who later served in the 7th corpse) for a couple of hours. It may have been boring, but I recall a sense of camaraderie on an otherwise calm night.

Raf/Modcat said (to chockfull)...

FFS... when YOU blame YOUR words/actions on what (anyone other than yourself) someone else says or does or doesn't say or doesn't do...

You can have the last word. I disagree with you, but you get/got to have your say on my thread. Congrats.

Okay, you don't like me. I accept that. Why, again, would you EXPECT (even if not demanding) me to do anything other than decline to respond to your questions? How does your insulting commenting pose anything that a reasonable person would expect me to respond to? Put another way, why do you think it is acceptable for you to hijack my thread?

Gosh, who would guess that wishing someone well could warrant such a response?

Gosh, I hope you're mood lifts soon.

Did YOU initiate this thread?

Again, who died and made you god? Put another way, what makes you think I am required to comply with your demands?

Your private interpretation of what I wrote about the cult facts website. When you write "where you like to label..." what Chockfull claims are, without making clear how/why s/he characterizes said claims as facts...," action(s) are most probably projection. I acknowledge that by directly pointing out what you said is dubious, I am inviting you, unfortunately not to a discussion of disagreement but to most likely inviting you to defend your claims. That's, to me, unfortunate. What I'm NOT doing, is characterizing YOU. And I'm NOT prescribing what I believe you SHOULD do... about anything. You are who and what you are and what you want to be. IF I were to invite you to discuss particular disagreement about it, I would ask you to define the parameters of this phenomenon you claim is FACT. Is it solely that some entity (could be human intelligence or artificial intelligence) has a source outside of itself to point to as a source? Or is it important for the source to be determined as authoritative?

Wow. "Sounds like you have some issues to sort through." How is that NOT a demonstration of projection? "I’m not arguing with you about your delusions." Oh, really? MY delusions? "Cult facts is a site about cults that contains footnotes, bibliographical info, and links to sources" Have you ever taken any courses or done any reading on the subject of logic, logical fallacies, or critical thinking/analysis? This might be a good time to start doing so. So, any presentation of claims, as long as neatly formatted and accompanied by "any ol' someone's written statement (footnotes, bibliography, etc.) attesting to the veracity of those claims" automatically qualifies that presentation as factual? Methinks thou doth protest too much.

And speaking of "Compared to What?" News today that Les McCann, jazz musician whose sole hit was thus titled, passed today at age 88.

As compared to what? The landscape on both sides of the road seems lush with mature trees.

Facts according to whom? Just because YOU claim something is a fact? As the saying goes, who died and made you God?

I would hope that freedom you enjoy and for which you are thankful extends to having no care for whether such people agree or disagree with you or see things the same way you do. THAT would be a freedom worth rejoicing about.

Not only that but also Harumph!

I find it interesting you would characterize the AI claim that way. It didn't claim "50 of the Way's past leaders coerced people..." that's what not it claimed. It claimed conspiracy. Conspiracy is a very specific word, the meaning of which is NOT encompassed by how you apparently paraphrased it. Therefore, I AM saying, your paraphrase thereof, or characterization is NOT what the AI alleged. As far as "sex outside of marriage..." consider there are approx 8 BILLION people alive on Earth at this time. Sex is universal. Pretty much everybody does it. As to your effort to pigeon-hole me into "debating" or even answering the question the way you phrased it, I am not interested and will not do so. As to the old Wierwille tactic of answering a question with a question, in this case, I explained to you why I will not "debate" the question as you asked it. Have a nice day, and a Happy New Year.

What makes you think I need to convince you on whether or not to take my words seriously or literally? I write what I write. You read what you read. You're not in my head, you're in YOUR head. I'm not concerned with whether you believe me or not; whether you agree with me or not. I'm not interested in controlling you or your perceptions. Take what I write and either accept it or not. I don't care what you decide about it. If you disregard my words, you will neither be the first nor the last person on Earth to do so.

Are you asking me to justify to you how I view that site? Why would you need me to do that? Fine, you believe/view it differently than me. I don't see that as a problem to be overcome. I don't need you to agree with me.

Why would it bother me? AI wouldn't be familiar with how wayfers talk. My favorites? What on Earth are you talking about. I am convinced the website was built by an AI. There was far more work that went into the site than any person or small group could have done. And a large group would not have been able to do it either. I also have no problem with you viewing the website differently than I do.

You and me (and many others who have survived to become "seniors") both. we[b] boast in the hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only so, but we[c] also glory in our sufferings, because we know that suffering produces perseverance; 4 perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 And hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us. From Romans 5, NIV.

I'm thankful for the POV you share on your blog, that being, for the most part, you share YOUR experience and YOUR observations on TWI.