Taxidev

On 12/16/2017 at 2:47 PM, chockfull said:

People criticize us here at the 'Spot.  We're deluded, we've lost our salt, we're dwelling on the past, we just need to get over it, we should move on and do something positive with our lives, we are devil possessed.

In other words, we are kind of like the victim side of the #MeToo movement.

What do you think?

I don't see a direct correlation.  The #MeToo movement, while possibly starting as a just cause, has turned into a political farce.  I have heard many of the claims of sexual improprieties, and many of them are just utter nonsense.  Where is the impropriety when a man asks a woman for a date?  Or compliments how she looks?  Or just watches her as she walks by?  Is that harassment?  .....

However, I have not seen anything here regarding TWI that has not already been brought to light by many.  Yes, there may be a few who's egos were bruised so they are more vehement in what they say, but there's no denying these things took place.

So, I think comparing GSC with #MeToo does you an injustice.  That's just my perception as a newbie here.

4 hours ago, T-Bone said:

Welcome to Grease Spot, Taxidev hope you stick around awhile to check out the wealth of information here.

You bring up the mechanisms of TWI - and I was wondering why you seem to ignore questioning or analyzing “the word” that is taught by TWI and R&R. Are you familiar with the lack of qualifications and gross plagiarism of TWI’s “teachers” all the way back to wierwille?

You mentioned hypocrisy with Grease Spot over donations...I am curious as to what basis the followers of R&R group receive money and distributes it as they see fit. What is the biblical basis ? Are they transparent in where the money goes? Is there overhead or salaries that it all goes to?

Another thing about hypocrisy- setting aside the intellectual and academic deficiencies of way-doctrine...I believe the moral shortcomings (hypocrisy) of TWI’s top leadership is an even bigger issue. The general public of Way followers don’t see the double-standard in play, but as one who has gone through the way corps leadership training program I can attest to how top leadership inculcates a hypocritical attitude in the leaders-in-training.

I know it’s a lot to throw at you. But stick around...mull things over...think outside the box.

 

T-Bone,

Thank you for the warm welcome.  Yes, I think I'll be here for some time.  It's interesting to hear from the old-timers of TWI.

I wasn't actually addressing TWI, but rather the R&R group.  But since you raise the point, I have questioned many of the teachings since attending fellowship my first time in 1995.  I believe I was the most questioning person in my branch.  Mostly, no one could truly explain to the point that I understood why they said what they said.  For instance, the no debt policy that was put in place.  To insist that leadership not have debt is really a matter of policy, and maybe they could see the benefit in that.  I didn't, but I wasn't in leadership, and being relatively new, I also didn't know what was entailed in the functioning of leadership in TWI.  But to say a person with debt isn't allowed to take the advanced class or any advanced level teachings on the field, was so incredibly moronic to me.  If anything, a person with debt should get even MORE of the word, to learn how to better live without debt.  But someone who was having extramarital affairs was welcome to the advanced class!

Plagiarism - I don't know if I would call it that.  I was looking at Jesus Christ Our Promised Seed, and the bibliography is almost a full 17 pages long.  As for qualifications, I know when Craig Martindale left I found out we had some incredible teachers, like Rico Magnelli and Ed Horney, and the like.  But they didn't last long.  Rosalie started screening the STS teachings, and caused a serious decline in the level and quality of the teachings on Sundays.  I felt like I had graduated from college and advanced back to kindergarten.  Keep in mind, I started with TWI in November of 1995.

The R&R group receives no money from any of us who listen to their teachings.  They don't want our money.  Instead, they want each of us to give where we see fit.  Sorry if I didn't explain that clearly.  They have taken to heart what Jesus Christ said, freely they received and freely they are giving.

There's no denying the hypocrisy of TWI.  That's one of the issues the R&R group has had with them, and a growing issue with the folks here in my area.  I personally know a long time believer that just stepped out of any association with them.  It caused quite a stir with the leadership here.

Because I am currently involved with both groups, TWI and R&R, I am able to share with all of you the most current happenings with them.  You seem interested in how things are today, and that's pretty interesting, given all the TWI bashing I have encountered here so far.  I was pretty surprised by how much R&R bashing there is already too.  They are a new group, still finding their way, and the former way leaders are working pretty diligently at undoing what was done to themselves as well as others.  They deserve a little more consideration.

10 hours ago, skyrider said:

You can't "restore" when you're not allowed in the door.

Actually, many were still involved, and were going to be leaving if they couldn't make any progress.  They didn't, so they left.  It's sad, really.  But it reminds me of the Martin Luther story.

11 hours ago, skyrider said:

All of legalistic mandates and pontificating at the bureaucratic-glut of "headquarters" was to feed wierwille's narcissism

sky, if you think it was bad before, you should see it now.  They are inches away from being equal to the Roman Catholic Church.  Don't dare question Rosalie, you'll be excommunicated.

11 hours ago, Grace Valerie Claire said:

Taxi, R&R just teaches?  I find that very interesting.  I know very little about the group.  Where do they teach?  Do they teach in one area, or do they teach in various parts of the country?

There are a good number of teachings on their FB page, and they also have a web site with chronological recorded teachings.  I'm currently up to April of this year, having started at the beginning, Aug of last year.  They also conduct a massive get together in Florida - there is one this February, but I can't make it.  It would have been my first.  They also had one this past November, also in Florida.  They seem to like the warm weather. :)

Everything they do is free.  I'm guessing they took to heart what Jesus Christ said, freely you've received, freely give.

There is no more PFAL, nor is there WAP1 or 2.  There is now version 3, which I have not seen.  But where PFAL was pretty direct, the WAP series seems to be toning down - almost becoming PC to not offend anyone - so true newbies can digest the sessions more easily.

I had PFAL foundational in the last one ever given in my area.  It was more impacting than either of the WAP classes, plus I didn't need to be attending a fellowship.  The WAP classes require one to be attending fellowship first. 

Originally, one would have to demonstrate a true interest in the Word, then would be invited to attend the class.  That has slacked off because of the pressure to run classes.  In my area they have had to run combined branch classes because neither of them has enough new students to run one of their own.  I believe there is supposed to be 5 new students, down from the original 7.

Aside from toning down the teachings, the basic flow of the WAP classes were about the same as PFAL.  Because I still attend a fellowship, and there is a good chance I'll be taking the newest WAP class, I can share my experience afterward.

On 12/12/2017 at 12:55 AM, socks said:

They disbanded, if I got it correctly. You have to wonder how long it would take for them to realize there's no "revival" or "restoration" of an organization possible, nothing in the Bible talks about that. People, yes. The Body of Christ, the Church, sure. Israel, God's people, yes.

socks, they have not disbanded, they have shifted direction.  They did realize, grudgingly, that there is no restoration of TWI when the BOD isn't interested in listening to what they have to say.  So the R&R group just teaches.  There is no more mention of restoration.

On 12/12/2017 at 10:13 AM, chockfull said:

They don't want to actually interact with the flock though.  Nobody travels to see people, nobody has personal contact - the Way ministry is all run through classes, teaching or lesson plans and weekly phone calls.   Talk at people consistently, never listen to them, and stubbornly persist ahead with a organizational plan and a thick head.  Get those butts in chairs listening to content and get them out knocking on doors getting more people in chairs to listen to content.

Chockfull, you are absolutely correct.  That is exactly how it is today, and people in my area of NY are getting really tired of it, and some have left because of it.  I don't know if you're still involved with them - I am - and they have driven many away.  I am not wholeheartedly supportive or involved, but I do enjoy the teachings in my fellowship.  Interestingly, the teachings from my fellowship coordinator are meatier than what comes from TWI headquarters on Sundays.  That's sad, actually.

I have been looking into the Revival & Restoration group since May of this year, both on their FB page and their web site, and I personally know a few that are directly involved, some from the beginning.  Most of these people were so heavily entrenched in the mechanism of TWI that it took until recently (I believe it was 2 years ago) for them to begin seriously confronting the BOD, resulting in many of them being ostracized by the BOD, calling them "Mark and Avoid", as if that is a physical condition.  Many were told to not return to a fellowship at all.

I have also seen that many of these former leaders in TWI have acknowledged their own wrongdoing, and apologized for that, and have been forgiven by some that were impacted.  My take on it is that they were so blinded that it took many years for the crap in their lap to begin to stink.  But it finally did, and they woke from their slumber.

They have made three things abundantly clear: they just want to teach the Word, they want to help anyone who wants to free themselves from the spiritual prisons they may have gotten entangled in from TWI, and they don't want anyone's money.  In fact, they have explained that our own abundant sharing should go to where we see fit, but NOT to them.

Surely it is easy to criticize them for their past actions, but are they not entitled to forgiveness?  I also notice the donation button here on the boards - R&R doesn't have one of those.  It is a bit hypocritical to criticize them for something that this group is doing.  So far, they are the purest form of Christian group I have ever seen, simply teaching anyone that wants to hear.