Hope R.

Thanks Abi – you are 100% correct in your statement. You always seem to have your head and heart in the right place and I admire you for that.

Thank you Shell for #3 on your post. I would rather speak for myself and am a bit disturbed that pieces of my conversation in the chat room were misrepresented on this thread.

And Hap – thank you, too – you tend to see things quite objectively and I appreciate that.

I will post my comments this one time because of the words that have been put in my mouth (fingers?).

I did not suggest that GSC start using real names. I said that the Corps site used real names because it is a social network and when you socialize with someone, it helps to know who they are. It is also a place to reconnect – which goes with the above statement. And it probably does keep the mean people away. No one wants to socialize with mean people anyway!

When I first came on Trancechat and Waydale I was still involved in TWI and used a pseudonym (Amie Friend). I needed to at the time for many reasons I won’t go into here.

The night we got the boot – I went into the chat room and proudly announced my real name and started using it on Waydale. It was a huge deal for me – almost cathartic. It may not be that way for anyone else and I appreciate the need for anonymity on a site like this. But I do think that when people use their real names, they may choose their words more carefully. John was called some horrible things by people who do not know him or me by anonymous posters. I always wonder whether those folks would say the same things to his face. I doubt it.

Regarding the relevance of today’s TWI… Please see Socks post #143 that was made on December 29. He says what I meant much better than I can say it.

But --- I remember when I first saw “No Way Out” in 1997 – which I believe was around about the same time as Trancechat. There was an article in it about the “gun training” class the Corps had taken in Emporia in the mid 1970’s. In 1997 it was really old news – ancient history in Way years. I don’t even think there were any Corps in residence in Emporia at the time it was posted.

In other words, the article was irrelevant to the TWI of 1997. I thought the site was out of touch and really didn’t apply to what I was looking for at the time – current TWI events! (btw… The class wasn’t militia-like gun training – it was the Kansas Safe Hunters class that the 4-H Club and Boy Scouts took. I still have the badge!)

Again - see socks post… which is also the reason I suggested a GSC social site.

As far as what I said about professional help – I believe it was taken totally wrong. My comment was that GS may have become a band-aid for some people who might need more help than a web-site can give them. I commented that folks who had been hurting for years and years might seek other forms of help if GS became a read-only site. I did not suggest that everyone who posts here needs therapy or medication! I will confess that both Waydale and GS were wonderful places to vent all my anger and frustration about my 29 years of service in TWI. Especially right after I got out. But there came a time when I knew I needed more and I got help. Period.

As far as editing goes –

I write my posts on a Word document before I put them on the forums. It’s still faster than editing on the web site over and over until I get it right (even then, sometimes I don't).

When John was lambasted on the Corps site thread, the awful names he was called were deleted, yet the answers he gave to those folks were kept on the site. He looked like a mean s.o.b. – getting angry over nothing and making crazy accusations. If those comments had been left alone the context would have been better understood and he wouldn’t have looked like he was getting po’d over nothing.

And Paw, I disagree, the Corps site is not heavily regulated. The only requirements that exist are that you use your real name and that you (or your parents) were in the Corps program for at least one year. Yes, the main forums are informational only (“how to” stuff, a memorial thread, “does anyone know where_______is?”, etc.).

But each person has their own page – which is more or less like having your own web site - and they can blog about whatever they want to. All we ask is that no one attack someone personally or make incendiary comments, much like the GSC forums state.

Anyone who wants to discuss my opinions can do so by emailing me at hoperich6@gmail.com or you can find me on Facebook (I just joined!).

This is probably my last post, and I won’t even think about coming into the chat room again.

Adios.

how cool !!!

is gerald going ?

Excie -- only if Craig shows up. :blink:

But I don't think either one of them qualify, since they weren't in the Sickth Corpse.

Don't know how to edit my post, but wanted to add my thanks to Bob Mirabito - who is also on the reunion committee.

xoxox

Hope

Hey everyone -

Just got an email regarding the 6th Corps 30th Reunion that's scheduled for next year. Check out the site at 6th Corps Reunion

Thanks to David Dougherty, Dan Stockemer, Roy Gotrik, Valerie Edwards, and Gary King

If you know any 6th Corps that may be interested in this, give them the link.

xoxox

Hope

Just when I think I'm out - Green Day keeps pulling me back. I fell in love with them in 2004 when American Idiot came out, and went backwards, starting with the pre-Dookie CD's. I continue to listen to them all the time - not sick of them yet.

I also bought the "Instant Karma - the Campaign to Save Darfur" CD - it's worth getting. About 7 of 8 of the tracks are awful (Avril Lavigne singing "Imagine" - ugh) - but to hear Christina Aguilera sing an amazing version of "Mother" makes up for it.

xoxo

Hope

My dear Ex-

Have a wonderful birthday. Relax and let everyone wait on you hand and foot! You deserve it!

Here's a "toast" to you!

xoxox

Hope

Another opinion to give some thought (on an MSNBC blog)

Since the whole series was based on Tony’s life it is appropriate to believe that the fade to black meant he was dead, I mean, when him and Bobby were talking by the lake they said, “when it happens you probably don’t even hear it, it just goes black” so that makes sense.” — Anna

Ditto on the TV going out! We have brown outs all the time in the summer. When the credits came on a few seconds later I thought - "that CAN'T be IT!" But it was.

There have been a lot of articles written about the ending this morning - and tons of blogging going on!

The NY Times is a good one, and one from Newsweek as well.

Did anyone watch "John from Cincinatti" ? Very odd.

BTW, I was mistaken - David Chase was "The Sopranos creator". David Milch produced "Deadwood". Both are amazingly good writers/directors/producers, IMO.

"Big Love" tonight- I'm going to try it again this season - I couldn't seem to wrap myself up in it last year - it was a bit too unbelievable for me.

I will miss "The Sopranos" - but there was so much time between seasons anyway, I sort of got used to it not being on TV.

Hope

PS The ending to "The Tudors" left me wanting more... but we all know what happens anyway... Poor Anne...

Notawayfer - I, too, am obviously an HBO/Showtime junkie. "Weeds" will soon be returning soon! And they also have a bunch of new shows that will be starting in the next month or so.

I faithfully watch "Ugly Betty" as well, but have also given in to "Heros" and am hooked. There are a few good non-network series like "The 4400" I'll be watching this summer because nothing else is on.

Okay - so what about the FBI guy who has continued to briefly show up week after week? I think he will have something to do with the end - perhaps something to do with the terrorism task force stuff he's been discussing with Tony? I don't know, but I thought it was strange he was around - he's been a fairly insignificant character these past few seasons. Why now?

I was upset that Bobby was killed in the toy store - and yes, Sudo, I knew it was coming, too. I'll be sad if and when Syl dies - I was hoping he'd get another job, perhaps as a guitar player for a rock and roll band! Maybe disguise himself with a bandana around his head!

Why hasn't Paulie been knocked off yet? I sure thought Tony was gonna kill him a few weeks ago! Perhaps he'll take a bullet for Tony...

What about Uncle Junior? Do you think the mention of moving him to another home was the last we've heard of him?

There's a lot of plot lines to tie up - I don't think we're going to know everything about everyone. There was an entertainment reporter on Countdown the other night who has been writing about the Sopranos in the Newark, NJ paper since the series began. He said he doesn't believe that David Milch will wrap up everything in a neat package. He also compared the scene when Dr. Melfi shuts the door on Tony to the scene in "The Godfather" where Michael Corleone shuts the door on Kay when she's visiting her kids. He thought it might be a "tribute" to the film from Milch. Interesting idea...

Okay - final thought...

Tony will wake up and he'll REALLY be the guy he dreamed about after he was shot... the whole Mafioso thing was a dream after all.

I'm sad it's over- but am anxious to see what happens.

Hope

PS - is anyone watching "The Tudors" on Showtime? It's really wonderful - great acting - beautiful costumes. You can actually view the first two episodes on Showtime.com for free.

Speaking of wrapping things up - I thought HBO was going to air two - 2 hour movies to finish out "Deadwood" - which I absolutely loved. Anyone know anything about that? (article from last summer)

Actually - it was pushed ahead! Plus - they didn't discuss the case they were going to discuss with her - they sort of blind-sided her with this horrible murder in Kansas which really had nothing to do with stalking at all. I felt sort of bad for her - she had to be vague because in cases with predatory stalkers, there really are no specifics. No one even knows if this young girl was being stalked by him or not.

The good news is that she's got her foot in the door as far as being considered an expert for the news media. Hopefully they'll use her again when the topic is more appropriate to her specialty.

xoxo

Hope

No argument of course, but can they be true friends? (ref the title of this thread)

In one case, someone who I thought was a "true friend" I met at "Waydale & GS" wound up a lot more distant after our first face to face meeting. Whoever's fault it was, it came down to a lack of trust.

Not to knock this place for that reason...maybe call it the fault of depending on cyber relations.

Well, what can I tell ya...

I can name 3 women who I know only through Waydale and/or GS - 2 whom I've met face to face. The 3rd lady and I have never met, but we talk on the phone a couple of times a month. We know so many of the same people in TWI that we figured we must have stood in the same line for a Wowburger at least once! I consider them all dear friends.

I also believe that women are generally more open to friendship with other women and can relate to each other in a more personal way - without the need for a face to face relationship.

But, having said that, I do understand that many people are afraid to get close with a cyber-friend. Had these women and I not known the same people, but just never crossed each others paths, I might have been more reluctant to get close to them.

xoxo

Hope

My sister, Ronnie Harmon, will be on Fox News tomorrow morning. They’re doing some kind of story about stalking and stalkers – which is her field. She’s the Administrative Director of the Bellevue Hospital Forensic Psychiatry Clinic in NYC. If you google her name along with “forensic” you’ll see all the info about what she’s done on the subject. (If you leave out the word “forensic” you get all the info about a San Diego Charger football player!)

Anyway – I’m very proud of my sister. My mom would be ecstatic!

The people at Fox told her she’d be on the air at 9:48 a.m. If you’re up that early (?) you can see her!

Xoxox

Hope

Kit,

GREAT point... I ditched many many many people in TWI after the P.O.P. ... pretty much turned them over to the 'devil'! How Christian of me!

Hiya ala!

As I said in an earlier post - I was determined that the friends I had in TWI would always remain my friends - in or out.... however....

We were ditched by more people who couldn't stand the fact we stayed in TWI after they'd left. Most of them were involved with a CG ministry, but a few others just cut us off for no reason. We weren't trying to convince them to come back, we never preached how great everything was (because it wasn't), we never "witnessed" to them. There was no reason to sever what we thought was a friendship at the time.

There are still folks we run into from time to time who used to be in our twig years ago! When we were still in TWI, they simply nodded at us - acknowledging the fact that they recognized us! When they found out we'd left, they actually said hello and asked how we were. Coulda knocked me over with a feather!

I stayed close to a few friends who left long before I did. We're still close. They loved me for who I was and it didn't matter what "church" I attended. I felt the same way about them.

Here is a very old poem I read when I was in elementary school. It has stayed with me for many years. To me, this is what being a true friend really is:

xoxox

Hope

TWI 1 - absolutely! I still keep in touch with many of them. When we stayed in TWI and so many of our friends left - we REFUSED to mark and avoid anyone. Friends are friends are friends.

TWI 2 - nope - none - zero. I don't think there's a person I encountered in TWI 2 that I was interested in making a friend (oops! - Except for Belle).

Waydale & GS - I've made several friends I've never met. I wouldn't know them if I walked by them on the street. I love them dearly and hope someday to see them face to face!

My best friend is a woman named Barb who I met when our 20 year olds were in Kindergarten. She never heard of TWI until she met me. Trying to explain things to her is like trying to teach her a foreign language.

For example: when I say to an ex-Way friend, "I was a WOW in Texas during the 4000 for the 40th year" - they know what I'm talking about. When I say it to my NBW* friend it has to come with a lengthly explanation - it has to be translated!

xoxox

Hope

*nbw= never been way

PS: Sushi - "A true friend stabs you in the front!" - Oscar Wilde

I've never attended - but want to tell you all about a place we've done John's family reunions in Kentucky.

It's called "The Moors". It's on Kentucky Lake and is fairly inexpensive. There are things to do - boat rentals, etc. It will be lovely there in Autumn.

Just a suggestion...

"These Are Days" - 10,000 Maniacs (Natalie Merchant)

I love the words:

These are days you’ll remember

Never before and never since, I promise

Will the whole world be warm as this

And as you feel it,

You’ll know it’s true

That you – you are blessed and lucky

It’s true – that you

Are touched by something

That will grow and bloom in you

These are days you’ll remember

When May is rushing over you with desire

To be part of the miracles

You see in every hour

You’ll know it’s true

That you are blessed and lucky

It’s true that you are touched

By something that will grow and bloom in you

These are days –

These are the days you might fill

With laughter until you break

These days you might feel

A shaft of light

Make its way across your face

And when you do

You’ll know how it was meant to be

See the signs and know their meaning

You’ll know how it was meant to be

Hear the signs and know they’re speaking

To you, to you

We stayed in TWI longer than most people. We left in July of 2000. Both our girls (now 20 & 16) were born into it.

We NEVER, EVER forced TWI's doctrine on our children. We never made them memorize bible verses. We didn't "teach" them to speak in tongues. We didn't tell them to pray for the MOG. We never made them take classes or watch TWI videos.

They went to children's fellowship when there was one - which in our fellowship was only on Sunday - and was apart from the adult fellowship. During the week either John or I would stay home with them and the other would go to fellowship. School and bedtime were the reasons, and our leaders who also had kids, seemed to understand that.

We used a wooden spoon on rare occasions - very rare. We mostly just flicked the back of their hand if they were behaving badly. Most of the time, all I had to do was give them a "look". They were (and still are) good kids, and got the message without us resorting to anything harsh.

Even the few years when we were enjoying TWI, we decided that if we forced our beliefs on our children, they'd rebel against them when they got older - which is what both of US did to our parents (John was raised Catholic, I was Jewish!). We felt that if we just lived our lives well, taught them the "golden rule" and some other simple bible teachings --and we let them know what we believed without shoving it down their throats, they'd make the right decision when it was time for them to do so.

It got more intense after LCM's class came out. When my oldest turned 12 the BC's expected her to take it. I told the BC's that while she was in school it wasn't going to happen - that it could wait until summer break. When the time approached, I arranged for her to take a 3 week "People to People" trip that happened to be at the same time the class would be running! Oops! My bad! By then - TWI was so corrupt, the teachings were so strange and the legalism was so obnoxious that there was no way I'd let my DOG sit through LCM's teachings. Shortly before we left, I told the BC that the teaching about Eve was too strange for my daughter to understand - among other things. He actually said "I know the class is not 'easy to be entreated', maybe it'll be better for her to sit through it when she's older". He never raised the issue with me again.

So we got lucky - and I believe we did the right thing. I saw too may "Way-bot" kids - it was pretty frightening - I couldn't stand it if mine were like that.

What do our girls believe now? The older one declares herself to be an atheist / agnostic / sometimes Buddahist (more philosophically than spiritually - depending on her mood). She remembers more of the TWI experiences than her younger sister and believes it was a cult. She doesn't resent us for our participation, but is glad we're no longer involved.

The younger one used to attend a large youth group on Friday night at a local, non-denominational church - but stopped attending when she started High School. She still goes to a week of the summer camp they offer - it's a lot of fun and a bunch of her friends go. The teachings can be a bit charismatic -- some kids raise holy hands. She doesn't and won't because she knows that if she did it wouldn't be sincere.

I admire both of them. They're lovely, intelligent, talented young women who (I hope) will make the right decisions for themselves. I'm a very fortunate mom!

I believe B & D are about 60 give or take a year or so.

Remember - their son and grandkids live at HQ's and have been staffers there for a few years.

Before that, Bri@n used to take care of the horses in Gunnison. Just shows ya what a college education can do for you! You too can shovel horse-sh~t in Colorado and use that 4 year degree to wipe your hands off!

How much you want to bet that they're re-assigned there once mom and dad move in? Who knows, they may already be there.

******************************************

Anyone know exactly how many Wayfers there are in the UK? I was surprised when I heard that B & D had been assigned there, thinking there weren't enough people to constitute a small branch or twig area. Perhaps that's why they're coming back - there's nothing there to coordinate!

Thanks to all -- been w/o a computer since Monday - but I'm back!

Excie - it was the most difficult b-day I've ever had... I miss my mom so much it hurts. Birthdays were a BIG deal to her - she loved celebrating them for herself and others. I always got 2 cards from her - one really funny one and one that was ridiculously mushy and sentimental.

My sister is coming down on Weds. and we're going to S. Florida to finish cleaning stuff out of my mom's condo. We decided we're going to put it up for sale. We're going to leave it furnished in order to show it - but getting all the personal stuff we left behind after the funeral. It's going to be rough for both of us.

The only good thing about the trip is that my cousin is getting married on Saturday - so we're going to her wedding. It should be a lot of fun - she and her fiancee are both in their late 40's and neither have been married before - they were both pretty wild and took their time settling down. So that's something to look forward to - and will hopefully be a distraction to all the work we have to do. I think their dog is going to be the ring-bearer!!!

Anyway - thanks to all again - perhaps next year will be a bit easier.

xoxox

Hope R.

Belle wrote: "It's been widely reported by very reputable posters that there was a contingency of 6th corps women who slept together and that there was a problem with Donna and Bill Green*'s wife sleeping together all the time."

Belle -

I was in the Sickth Corps. I never heard or saw any contincency of women sleeping together sexually (if that was the implication in your post). When Sunny S*nd*rs was the women's Corps Coordinator, she did have small groups of us over to her dorm for slumber parties. We made popcorn, told stories, and "shared hearts". Sunny was an amazing person and it is something I won't forget. I wonder what happened to her... but that's another topic.

Mrs. Green was in the 5th Corps - perhaps that's what you mean.

Regarding Donna, I do recall this...

One night during our last year, when we were getting ready to graduate, VP and Loy met with the men, and the next night VP and Donna met with the women. I believe I'm remembering this correctly...

We were discussing love and marriage -- LCM & Donna had only been married for about a year then. Lots of women were asking bs questions about "corps marrying corps" and "how do you know if it's the right man", etc.

I don't recall how it came up, but Donna shared about a time that she went to VP to talk to him about her feelings for other women. If my memory serves me right, she was concerned because she felt like she loved her women friends too much - that she wanted to spend time with them -- she was worried that she might be a lesbian (and I really think she used the "L-Word"). VP's reply to her was something like "honey, you have a big heart and a so much love to give to people -- you're misinterpreting your love for something sexual... but it's not - you just love people so much you feel like you're gonna burst!" I remember DM saying she was relieved when he told her that.

Then she went on to tell us how VP fixed her up with LCM ... and they lived happily (???) ever after.

Years later, when I started hearing the rumors about DM & RFR, I thought of that night - so I wasn't really surprised by it.

Up until then, it never crossed my mind - but after hearing it - it sorta made sense. No, there's no proof - no eyewitnesses (ugh). No one has photos or video tapes. It's all a matter of perception... like sudo said... if it looks like a duck...

Funny - I just emailed someone and told them that there's not too much about TWI that hasn't been discussed on GS - and nothing new has happened for quite a while. Here's what I wrote to them:

I think they've gotten very quiet and probably won't do anything crazy enough to attract attention to themselves. There are no more megalomaniac leaders like LCM or new, controversial teachings anymore. I think they're maintaining the status quo and living off the rewards of the past. If their lifestyle doesn't get too extravagant - they'll be able to live very well for many years

Then I suggested that it might be a good topic!! LOL!! Guess someone beat me to it.

The internet is too powerful for TWI to hide from. It's what brought them down in the first place. Waydale showed anyone who had internet access the truth about LCM and VPW and their perversions. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it was less than a year from the time the first law suit was brought to light until LCM resigned -- perhaps less than 6 months. Anything they do now, anyone they've recently wronged, can post it for all to see -- not just here, but on blogs and MySpace as well. No wonder they're acting nicer and boring and bland (oh my!). There's nothing to discuss about today's TWI other than it'll put you to sleep!

Hap - I'll get those things scanned and send them to you. I'm also going to look for a document restorer here in Tampa to try to fix that birth certificate up a bit more.

3Cents - I remember going to my grandparents' unveiling - and yes, it was the first time we went to the grave after they died. There was no party or picnic afterwards, though. Everyone just went back to my folks house and ate - like sitting shiva, but just for that day. My parents weren't religious at all - so we didn't cover the mirrors or sit on crates. The food was separated, though, no mayo at all, and no cheese on the same platter as the pastrami. That was mostly for the people who came. My mom couldn't have cared less!

xoxox

Hope

I'm overwhelmed by your reponses. Thank you so much for all you've said.

I wrote my post a few days before I put it on GS. It was something I had to write. It wasn't something I had initially meant to show to anyone except John and my sister. But I felt like I HAD to put it somewhere where anyone I knew or who ever knew me or my mom could see it. It's still pretty fresh, I don't know if I could have gotten through writing something like that now because the more time passes it seems the more it hurts, not less.

I know so many of you have had to deal with this, but honestly, this is the deepest, hardest emotional pain I've ever felt. Plus all the regrets and guilt and questions about what happened. My mom was alone when she died, so we'll never know what caused it. Jews don't do autopsies, and my sister and I thought it was an unecessary ordeal to go through. My mom died alone, probably of a stroke (she'd had mini-stokes over the past year). We just have to believe in our hearts that she was dead before she fell, and that a fall didn't cause her death. She was 82 and very independent. She never wanted to live in an assisted living facility or a nursing home; she didn't want anyone taking care of her in her home around the clock; she didn't want one of those personal alarms that "old people" wear around their necks. And she certainly didn't want to come live with us. She preferred the quiet of her retirement community to a home with a couple of teenagers and all their friends! After a few days here, she'd say she was ready to go home where the dog wasn't barking and the phone wasn't ringing so much.

So, she died as she lived, on her own terms. I've come to grips with that. I just wasn't ready. I thought she'd be around for a few more years. One of the things she said to me the last time she got out of re-hab (after a fall) was, "Don't worry about me, I'm planning on being around for the girls' weddings". I believed her.

Thanks for all your phone calls and cards. They meant and still mean a lot to me. Funny, but a few weeks before my mom died, I was cleaning out my desk at home and found all the cards I'd received from people when my dad died. I decided that it was okay to throw them out after 7 years. Now I'm putting all the cards I've received for my mom in the same place. I think I'll probably hold on to them for a long time.

Time may heal all wounds, but some wounds take a long time to heal.

Thanks for your love and your prayers -

Love --

Hope R.

My mother died 10 days ago. I will never be the same.

There have been hundreds of millions if not billions of mothers who have died before her. But it’s my mother, and I feel as if I am the only one who has ever felt such sorrow and loss – that no one could have possibly experienced this before. I know it makes no sense – but I also know it’s a feeling that won’t go away for a while – maybe years – maybe never.

The sense of loss isn’t just for her – it’s that chain of four, five or six degrees of separation that were broken with her death. I always knew what was happening with everyone in our family, all her old friends (my “aunts” if you will), their children and grandchildren.

I heard about my cousin’s lives through her – some who I haven’t seen in 20 years or more. She had women friends I knew my whole life – her Canasta friends. I remember them all as young housewives, sitting around my dining room table every week or so, playing cards, laughing and turning the room blue with cigarette smoke! Their children were younger or older than my sister and me, but I knew all about them. Even though we were never childhood friends I knew about their marriages and divorces, their successes and failures. And I knew about their spouses and children as they all probably knew about mine. All that is gone – the connection has been lost.

A couple of days after I got back home from my mother’s funeral, two of her oldest friends called me to see how I was doing. Talking to them was almost like talking to her again -- almost. They told me how much my mother loved me and my family, how proud she was of all of us. It was supposed to make me feel better, I guess. But when I got off the phone, I cried and cried and wondered who would call me when these women died. Would I ever know?

I also knew about my family history through her. There were old photos of her parents and siblings in envelopes and boxes all over her house. A few months ago, we sat down with a small pile of these pictures went through them one by one. She told me who the people were – their relationship to her or her parents, where they were when the photo was taken and sometimes what the occasion was. I carefully wrote them on Post-It notes and put them on the back of each photo.

When my sister and I were cleaning out her papers, we came upon a strong box that had 100 year old documents in it. Some were written in Polish or German, and some were in Hebrew. One of them was dated in 1894. My sister and I believe to be my grandfather’s birth certificate - and it is so fragile that we are afraid to handle it too often. Why didn’t we know they existed? Why didn’t she tell us about them, what they were and where she had them hidden? Had she forgotten about them? These are questions that will never be answered.

We also found some photos we’d never seen before. Some of them were of our family that were taken when my sister and I were children -- of times and places we vaguely recall. (“Look, there are Uncle Jerry’s candlesticks!”; “I remember that bathing suit!”). And there was another batch of sepia colored pictures of people whose names we don’t know, and now wonder who they were and why she kept them. This too will go unanswered.

So much is lost – all buried with her. All I can do is hope that I can keep these connections somehow – perhaps find out the answers through relatives or friends. It’s become so important to me that I’m starting to cry even as I type this.

The wound is still fresh. My friends who have lost their mothers say that it gets better with time, but right now I don’t believe them. I miss my mother – her sense of humor, her admiration (how good it was for my ego!), her absolute adoration of my daughters. Even her nagging and worrying will leave a void – after all, who worries about you as much as your mother? And I will miss her daily phone calls -- chit-chatting about our favorite TV shows, the results from her doctor’s appointments, the pain of my last root canal, the news about my aunts and my cousins, or her Canasta friends and their kids. Now when the phone rings at 6:00 – I know it won’t be her. And when it doesn’t ring, after some time passes, maybe it will dawn on me that she’s really gone.

I love you mom.

You can look at it in a couple of ways.

If you define an offshoot the way mstar stated it - then there may be hundreds of them. Lots of people who decided to leave TWI continued having their own home fellowships. Many still do. They do their own thing, but still teach the basic tenets of TWI. Some even have PFAL tapes and run classes.

Then there are groups that are "together with but distinctly independent of" the major spin-off (remember pros?). The one here in Clearwater comes to mind. They're affiliated with the Geerites because they offer his class, but they're autonomous in every other aspect.

If you follow Mr. Hammeroni's point of view, then there are only a handful of really large offshoot/spin-off groups.

IMO - an offshoot is a group continues to support their "leadership" in the same manner as TWI. In other words, the guys who run the split off don't have realjobs and their followers give them money so they can "do the work of the Lord".

There are several that I have heard of, and some I don't know much about - but I'd venture to say there are about 20 of them - give or take a few.

IMO, many of these so-called leaders hadn't had jobs for years because of their TWI positions. I think some of them might have been intimidated about going out "into the world" to earn a living after splitting from TWI. So they just kept on doing what they knew how to do - teach the bible and ask for money. Only this time they weren't filling out blue forms and sending money orders to New Knoxville!