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Hi CMAN! After reading some of your posts, I take it that you adhere to the past fulfillment or preterist explanation of eschatology? I may be wrong but you seem to be a full preterist by your above statement. I'm an oddball in the sense that I adhere to elements of both full preterism and partial preterism. For example, I see the first resurrection of Revelation 20 being fulfilled near to the destruction of Jerusalem at 70AD. That tends to be a full preterist point of view. However I see the "thousand years" as in progress with Rev. 20:7-10 still yet to be fulfilled in our future. This point of view tends to be more of a reformed partial preterist point of view. Revelation 21 tends to be literalized by the dispensational futurist camp which I was a member of until around 2006. Heaven and Earth to first century Jews and Christians was simply a reference to the temple. https://www.reenactingtheway.com/blog/when-heaven-and-earth-passed-away-everything-changed879420187179853150181 If the new Jerusalem were literal the dimensions of it that is described in Rev 21 would reach into outer space. I take the symbolic point of view.

I'm actually undecided on this subject. I no longer take VPW's writings as absolute truth. Another verse that appears to describe deceased people as conscious is Revelation 6:9-11: When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been. Also the Witch of Endor story in 1 Samuel. The usual explanation we were given in TWI was d.s. influence but the book of Samuel doesn't seem to indicate this incident was an evil spirit fraudulently taking on Samuel's identity.

Fascinating subject. The symbolism and figurative language can make some things in the Bible hard to decipher no doubt. One indication from the New Testament that the deceased are aware or conscious but the body is dead is from Jesus parable of the rich man and Lazarus(Luke Chapter 16:vs19-31) In the parable Jesus described the rich man and the beggar (Lazarus) dying. Lazarus went to Abraham's bosom which was a pleasant place to be. The rich man went to Hades where he was tormented. Abraham was able to speak to the rich man but there was a great distance between them. I forget how this story is described in ATDAN book by VPW. Some say that it was just a story Jesus used to make a moral point but they imply that the description of Sheol was not literal. Some commentators see Sheol with two compartments: Hades being the compartment reserved for the wicked and Abraham's bosom or paradise being the compartment where the righteous go until the resurrection.

Hi Charity, I'm coming at this from a preterist or past fulfillment perspective. It's not 100% clear exactly which coming of Jesus Peter was referring to but I'm leaning toward the Olivet Discourse (Matt. 24). It would take a book to explain in detail why I see Matthew 24 as a reference to the destruction of Judea and the temple during the Roman siege from 66-70AD. I will try to give you as brief an explanation as possible. There are 2 or 3 preterists on GSC, myself being one of them. We see the eschatological prophecies such as Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, Daniel 12 and most of the book of Revelation as happening in our past but was future to Jesus' audience when he gave them the prophecy. We take the very confusing time references to really mean closeness of time not thousands of years into the future. Here is an example: James 5:8 states - You too be patient; strengthen your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is near. Some translations use the phrase "at hand" and futurists sometimes put an amazingly long arm on James to explain that "near" in this verse doesn't really mean a short period of time. Since we have an English translation it is usually wise to look up the Greek words of certain verses especially if there is some confusion. "Near" in James 5:8 was translated from the Greek eggizó. It really does mean near in time not thousands of years into the future.. https://biblehub.com/greek/1448.htm . Another one is Revelation 1:1 & 1:3 - The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; Blessed is the one who reads, and those who hear the words of the prophecy and keep the things which are written in it; for the time is near. "Near" in Rev 1:3 comes from "eggus" which means near in place or time https://biblehub.com/greek/1451.htm . Daniel is given a prophecy that in chapter 12 describes the power of his people(Israel) being totally destroyed. Daniel is told that the prophecy would be sealed up until the time of the end because it wouldn't be fulfilled in his lifetime. In Revelation 22:10 John is told to “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. So to make a long story short, I think the coming that Peter was referring to was the destruction of the Herodian Temple in 70AD . The destruction of 70AD was not Christ's return to earth at the end of human history. This coming was a judgement coming. Isaiah uses similar language in chapter 19: A prophecy against Egypt: See, the LORD rides on a swift cloud and is coming to Egypt. The idols of Egypt tremble before him, and the hearts of the Egyptians melt with fear. It was the end of animal sacrifices...the finality of the old covenant. BTW, the old covenant and the new covenant co-existed for approximately 40 years. This is apparent when Jesus said For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. If Jesus literally meant that the Mosaic law would be in effect until the end of human history (Great White Throne) then we got a real problem. Heaven and Earth to first century Jewish people was a reference to the Temple: https://www.reenactingtheway.com/blog/when-heaven-and-earth-passed-away-everything-changed879420187179853150181

Here is an interview with Sandi Heefner regarding the beginning of the "House of Acts" commune. Sandi Heefner Interview

Mickey Mouse BS Rocky!

Dude! Your first point was " Do you know if the movie claims to be a true and factual rendering of the history in question? " and I mentioned that the movie is based on a book that claims to be factual. I agree that everybody has a different perspective. Everybody has their own filter.

Hi Rocky, I haven't seen the movie either but the movie is based on a book written by Greg Laurie & Ellen Vaughn by the same title. I'm pretty sure the book claims to be factual. It seems a lot of the criticism is coming from people who knew Lonnie Frisbee personally such as Lonnie's brother. Some of these people indicate that the reason Frisbee's involvement in the Jesus Freak movement has been downplayed is because of his occasional gay sex affairs which resulted in him acquiring HIV then eventually AIDS. If you do a YouTube search you should run across a recent interview with Lonnie's brother Stan.

Hi T-Bone! Yeah ..I agree with your assessment 100%

I haven't posted in a couple of years. My GSC name previously was "infoabsorption" but unfortunately I lost my account credentials and the email it was attached to... so I decided to create a new account. A few friends and family members of mine have already seen the "Jesus Revolution" movie. The reactions to the movie from my friends and family have been mostly positive, however, if one starts to dig around on the internet (primarily YouTube) then one notices that there is another side to this story. The biggest complaint of the movie that I've noticed is that Lonnie Frisbee isn't given the recognition that he deserves. Some say that Frisbee was the biggest catalyst of that movement. One person said that Frisbee was responsible for converting at least 85,000 people to Christianity. He would just go down to the beach and start preaching and baptizing people. Then all of a sudden there were 200 people standing around him. It didn't take long. Apparently, Frisbee roomed with Jim Doop and his wife and Steve Heefner and his wife north of San Francisco. The city may have been Novato. Not 100% sure. This was around 1967 shortly before Frisbee joined Chuck Smith's group which became Calvary Chapel. One of the old timers said that during this time Berg from the Children of God and a "member" of The Way approached Frisbee in CA both trying to get him to join their groups. I'm glad he didn't. But VPW did talk Heefner and Doop into attending "summer school" in Ohio.