OldSkool

On 3/29/2024 at 11:51 AM, modcat5 said:

That is a lie, in case you're wondering.

No it's not. You're the moderator, and you have a very nasty unchristian bias, and you allowed this post to stay in about the way for some time. There is no other side around here anymore but a push towards writing memoirs and ted talks. That some found redeeming value in those things is awesome. However, others, like myself, returned to Jesus Christ and found a great relationship that the way international and others would love to hide. So it's clear to me that when a moderator leaves an anti-Christian post in the about the way section, then there's a problem and this is no longer an objective website and no longer does it serve its stated purpose. 

Jesus Christ and most anything Christian is not welcome here, and therefore I'm unwelcome here. 

But on the other hand, let a Christian post pop up in about the way, and It's immediately moved. 

20 hours ago, RighteousRider said:

I'm not complicated enough to know what you mean by the viral deal. My only purpose in sharing this video is that I know a lot of negative things got solved in my life, without having to re-hash the details, when I started letting God love me. I thought others might like to experience that short-cut, too.

God and Jesus Christ have been excluded from this website, unfortunately. Thanks for sharing what helped you and may it help others, God Bless!

Thanks all! I really appreciate the kind words.

My work on GSC is complete. Thank you for giving me a place to vent and I wouldnt be where I am now if it wasnt for my time here. Some of you  if not all may think im crazy. I was crazy and this isnt the same. I thought I was crazy in the beginning too...its fine.

https://www.eyesupandopen.org/index.php/articles-from-various-authors/my-testimony-expanded-version

5 hours ago, Rocky said:

I also not not surprised at the hostile reactions. None of which seem to actually address what I posed in the OP.

If hostile reactions are calling you out on your bullshonta then so be it.

You taking a page out of mikes playbook now?

6 hours ago, WordWolf said:

I suspect OldSkool noticed that the initial post was only "About the Way" because of two sentences that look inserted to give the excuse to post this in "About the Way", and without them, the entire post is complete, but neither "About the Way" nor particularly respectful of Christians. 

There's somewhere in the GSC you can post and be disrespectful of Christians and have that be expected or welcome.  I wouldn't bat an eye if this thread was there.  It appears to me that the one sentence on vpw was an excuse to post it in a more popular forum instead.  That nothing will be done about it pretty much will make OldSkool's point that "Bible-bashing is a large part of what Greasespot has become" and that it's considered perfectly acceptable to shoehorn this into "About the Way" when it takes an excuse to do so.

Exactly. So if the moderators choose to let their bias rule the roost here at GSC and allow posts such as these then its pretty much a given that I will not participate here. Its intersting how others demand tolerance in their atheistic view points, yet Ive been very tolerant, yet that tolerance is used as an excuse to bash my Christian beliefs. Fair enough.

I didnt realize about the way section on grease spot cafe was made to "challenge the foundations of one's belief." I thought iit was to tell the other side of the story.  Im not here for that and neither am I here to challenge the foundation of anyone's beliefs unless those beliefs tie into "About the way". 

3 hours ago, WordWolf said:

This is "About the Way"?

Though this isnt a "Christian" website, many people here no longer have any respect for Christians or their beliefs. Bible bashing is a large part of what grease spot has become and frankly I find it offensive and seldom participate here as a result. It is what it is because Ive grown so far past the way international I have little left to say on them that I havent stated already, or has been stated by others. I feel this site is no longer tolerant of Christians and that includes me. Peace.

6 minutes ago, Ham said:

Me too.  This is pure blues on acid.. and they can play it with a smile on the face..

Those guys had so much fun n performing...they all smiled frequently on stage. Huge fan here...as if you couldn't tell.

19 hours ago, Ham said:

 

Love watching Pulse...some of the best post Roger Waters live footage ever....

On 9/29/2023 at 8:33 PM, waysider said:

I can't find my way to messages on this phone. Thank you to those who sent me messages.

Cool, your welcome and very happy to hear you are on the mend!!! 

21 hours ago, Charity said:

The topic of forgiveness came up when I visited a Christian on Thursday.  When I said I believed we are told in scripture to forgive those once they have repented, she could not accept this and gave me many reasons why I was wrong including Bible verses.  One thing she said that stuck out to me was God requires repentance because He's God - we're not God and so that condition does not apply to us.  It sounded right, and I left there wondering if it was true or not.  

The next day, I did some searches on the internet and found one that listed every reason she had given me the night before also with a Bible verse attached.    

1. God still tells me to. 1 Peter 3:8-9 

2. Jesus gave me an example when dying on the cross. Luke 23:34 (This one I accept.)

3. So my life isn’t blighted by bitterness and resentment. Hebrews 12:14-15

4. Forgiveness gives me power in my spirit. 1 Timothy 6:11

5. Most people don’t understand the significance of what they do.

6. Because I’m guilty too. John 8:7

The website is called 6 compelling reasons why you should forgive someone who isn't sorry (activechristianity.org)

There were other websites which basically said the same thing which shows how common a belief this is among Christians, including myself up to a few days ago.   Whenever they read the word "forgive" in the Bible, they automatically assume it means forgiving unconditionally, and is therefore something we must do and if we don't, we become sinners in God's eyes.  I feel it's one of those areas where wrong doctrine crept into the church that appears Godly when it's not.    

I did find two sites which do not teach the above.  They're listed below.

 Do You Have to Forgive People Who Don’t Even Ask for Forgiveness? (davidservant.com)

Do I have to forgive a person who does not apologize? - BibleAsk   

 

I think there is room to maneuver on this one because forgiving a wrong brings  up the ability to discern, or judge, right from wrong and take appropriate action according to the situation. Theres times I have forgiven unconditionally, in the case of the way international's leadership who wronged me, and thers times I havent. I feel that people equate unforgiveness with bitterness and hatred. Nothing could be further from the truth. Its a case by case scenario that has no room for black and white thinking, though modern day churchianity seems to handle the topic in said manner.

4 hours ago, chockfull said:

Honestly I am divided on this topic.  All the bickering is unpleasant.  However without it certain people control the narrative 100 percent.

This topic of “forgiveness” is among the worst for that due to how all these cults manipulate it so that they are not responsible to either ask for or to grant forgiveness from another.

False forgiveness keeps people in cults.  Genuine forgiveness releases a burden and allows for healing.

Agreed. The main point I was making is it's a bit easier to see people in person and communicate in a more intimate manner than the interweb. It does help to see people's expressions and such, body languaget, etc. But on the flip side many of our debates on GSC have yielded pleasant enough results. So we are here to discuss and debate and even argue...how else can we prove all things? Great points, Sir!

1 hour ago, Nathan_Jr said:

We are talking about forgiveness and the forgiver and the forgiven and absolution and resentment and responsibility and letting go and…

Repentance

Sincere regret or remorse; a change of mind or purpose… a change within spurred by deep regret or remorse.

This change, this repentance, will be self evident. It will be seen. It will be obvious. It will not require belief.

One may have legitimate doubts about an offender’s apology, especially if it is no sincere  apology at all, but it’s a manipulative dodge. And the apology may appear or sound sincere, especially to the good-hearted offended who wants to forgive. Anyone ever in a relationship with an NPD has heard these apologies seven times a day for 7000 consecutive days — they are mere hollow, empty platitudes. 

How can you know if someone is truly repentant? They will be changed in their heart and word and deed, they will live this change, and this change will be seen by all. 

Exactly. Right on the money. This is the cornerstone to my cult recovery and recovery from alcoholism. Im simply not the same person as I was...true repentance and forgiveness has occured. It has encouraged me to read your summation on the matter. Thanks!

We need more cow bell....

23 minutes ago, Charity said:

When you forgave all things TWI, do you think God forgave all their offences against you as well?  

The reason I'm asking OldSkool is that often the word "forgive" is used when we mean we have stopped feeling resentment against the offender which is different from "absolving" someone of any blame, guilt or responsibility for their wrongdoings. 

No I dont. I dont think that at all based on the premise that without true repentance and an actual change on the offending party God will not forgive. He allowed his son to die for the sins of all...what else does he need to do? Rhetorical of course but its food for thought. God has moved and most people wont accept God's peace offering by giving his only begotton son for remission of sins. TWI still has an unsettled account but its not my account as Ive forgiven them...from here the Lord can decide how this all sorts out and in the end they are still my brethren in Christ, even though they are a corrupt organization. It would be great, say for example, that Charity wronged me and she could obtain forgiveness by me forgiving her. Forgiveness comes by true repentance and making amends where possible. I live this way faithfully and to the letter as a recovering alcoholic. Ive spent the last several years living exactly what Im preaching. And thus, I am forgiven of my many grevious sins and am at peace with God and Christ.

1 hour ago, Rocky said:

I believe this exchange of yours and mine on this subject starkly (or not?) illustrates and illuminates the inherent limitation of communication without access to each other's non-verbal cues. i.e tone of voice, inflection, facial expressions etc.

I only point this out for your readers and mine (likely only on this topic/thread) to hold in mind that we're inherently not contradicting each other or criticizing each other or otherwise INTENDING to cause any "negative" emotion.

If I could devise a way for us to more fully communicate on GSC or any other online print only forum in ways that would be less likely to cause misunderstandings and be more likely to foster compassion and forgiveness... well, maybe I'd be able to get rich. Then again, that wouldn't be my goal/objective anyway.   

Very true. Online communications on an anon forums is difficult, especially in topics we are emotionally invested in such as those prevelant on GSC. Since the latest round of Mike wars Ive really desired to stop the bickering and I have. Im doing my best to stay objective and not get into the know you are but what am I type arguments that you guys warned me would ensue...lol. Peace all!

1 hour ago, chockfull said:

100 percent.

I haven’t talked to the splinter moglets directly.  But that bath water stinks of stolen BS and despair!

Which is probably why I haven’t talked to the splinter moglets directly.

That is the stupidest damn statement anyway.  Who here has actually bathed one of your children, but instead of using clean water you recycled it?

Thats exactly what joining a splinter would be like.

you havent missed out on anything. I reached out to them in my first 6 months out of TWI, somehow thinking something would be different. And to be clear, they are all different from each other as they have all taken what they liked from TWI and rebranded it with their own additions and spin. But at the end of the day its the same ole trap.

15 hours ago, Rocky said:

For the record, I wasn't implying anything about your take on the groups. I believed and believe you. I was only putting my point/understanding in the context of my experience. 

Clearly those spin off groups, IMO, are parasites. 

Hey, no doubt. I stated what I did not at you but to verify the authenticity of my statement with names of groups and also with the names of those who made the statements for clarity for our multitude of lurkers. I hold them no ill will and believe they meant well, but whats that saying...sincerity is no...gaurantee...o...of....truth...or something like that...

1 hour ago, Stayed Too Long said:

Allow me to say this, even though Chockfull has proclaimed to the internet I have no right to express myself because of my non belief in God, thus I am just trolling along on GSC. 

Any @sshat leader who was in TWI and is currently operating an offshoot group, should immediately close up shop until they condemn the actions of VPW.

Furthermore, any dense jackfoot former follower of VPW, especially those who have held the mantle of leadership, must immediately prostrate themselves before “somebody” and beg forgiveness.

And especially, all those disingenous jackfoot trolls, such as myself, must immediatelly surrender their license to operate a PC, to the internet policing commission, until they can demonstrate a clear understanding that there is a loving God.

 

 

I dont know about you being a troll or not and dont really care. However, there is a simple solution to said problem of former TWI leaders when it comes to wierwille and his issues. Honesty. Just admit the man was a con and some of the things he taught are true and Biblical. Repudiate the lies and distance oneself from his sins. Its not feasible to expect everyone to sit around in sack cloth and ashes in memory of wierwille. Of the three offshoots  mentioned STFI, TLTF, and CFF all three groups top leaders were the ones who told me to forgive and forget wierwille's sins and dont throw out the baby with the bath water. I dont know if these guys take notes from each other, or share the same playbook. Their last names were Gallagher, Lynn, and Guigou. All said the same thing to me. My healing depended on forgiving the way international and those who wronged me. And again, utter BS. My healing depended on my repentance and asking forgiveness for myself for being involved with a false prophet and spreading his lies. Thats where my freedom came from. Ive long since forgiven all things TWI and it made little difference in my day to day life. What made all the difference was accepting peace with my creator. God almighty, which many of you now say doesnt exist.

8 hours ago, Stayed Too Long said:

Utter BS this: 

And thats true as can be...but it is not obligatory so fake churches based on the image of wierwille can continue to bilk money from people. Context.

For offshoot groups "forgiving wierwille" and other non-penitent wierwille minions equates to forgetting the abuses and false doctrines so the cycle can continue. Not the cycle of sexual abuse started by wierwille on his congregation but the cycle of victimized parishinors caught in the same cycle of sitting in this false prophets shadow, soaking in wierwilleian false doctrines, and giving their hard earned money to corrupt organizations based on this man.

I have a picture of an offshoot practicing forgiveness as it relates to coninuing under wierwilles shadow and false doctrines...this manner of forgiveness is necessary so people are free to continue follow wierwille's doctrines in the offshoot of their choosing...

55 minutes ago, Rocky said:

They may or may not require victims to forgive. I don't have any experience with any of them to be able to say one way or another

I can say authoratatively from my own personal experiences with all three groups I mentioned that they all preached this false forgiveness doctrine they need to prop up wierwille and keep the gravy train chugging along. Perhaps require is a bit too strong of a word in this case. But all three groups hit me with the same drivel.

Its likely their defacto sales pitch to try and snag defecting way corp.

11 hours ago, Stayed Too Long said:

I didn’t realize the offshoots thought VPW did anything wrong that would to require forgiveness. They believe each is carrying on the same word of God taught by the good doctor.

The offshoots know dang good and well that victor Paul wierwille had issues as long as train smoke. They knowingly suppress this information on a false pretense of requiring forgiveness from victims when nobody has stepped up to ask forgiveness and make amends. They all do it. Cff, stfi, tltf, etc. It's just as bad as doing the deed because truth is suppressed in favor of an idolatrous lie.

There is literally no place in scripture that requires anybody to forgive so the person who was wronged can move on in life...thats utter BS. We shoudnt harbor bitterness or take vengance into our own hands, but forgiveness is given to the one who comitted the offence(s) after they repent and ask for it. Obviously, we can intercede and ask for forgiveness for someone else the same way Christ did with the malefactor or where Christ spoke of those who crucified him saying forgive them for they know not what they do.

Offshoots, and I mean all of them. Offshoots of the way international have a VESTED interest in requiring victims forgive predator victor paul wierwille, et al., because how else can they keep people roped in, giving them money so they can have cushy little jobs at the local home church office?

Jesus himself taught:

Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

23 hours ago, So_crates said:

We were told we would manifest the power of God. How many do you know really did? How many healing and miricles are you aware that news of such didn't come from a friend of a friend (a ministry urban legend) ?

You see, the truth of the matter is that we were never meant to manifest the power of God,  to become successful. Because if we ever did manifest that power we would become to Independent and, in Saint Vic's mind, might no longer need him. So it was to his benefit to keep us in a cycle of failure which would keep us dependent on the ministry.

You would think God would want you to succeed and be a shining example of his love. Yet, the ministry was based on you failing.

I dont know much about what manifesting the power of God actually is for TWI...I tend to think manifesting the power of God for TWI means a person can believe to get stuff so they can give stuff to the way international. 

What has happened in my life is God has worked mightily in my life before, during, and after the way international...especially after TWI. And yes: signs miracles and wonders. God is not bound by the way international, or anyone's believeing for that matter. God is not bound at all and the way international does not accurately represent him or know him. Most people rationalize God away and deny his existance...strange wonder they "see" no signs miracles and wonders....even if God did them they would get rationalized away as something else.