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The Skeptical Texan

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Everything posted by The Skeptical Texan

  1. Tom, Me, too. It could've been worse. I knew a couple of guys that started smoking once they learned of Dr's affinity for Kools. I can't blaming my smoking on TWI, though. I started well before that and thank God quit a decade ago. I can attest that in the '70s TWI, believers consumed alcohol in copious quantities. That was one of the attractions to TWI: no goody-two-shoes Baptist attitude on beer. I agree with Ben Franklin on the topic: "Beer is proof that God exists and wants us to be happy." SkepTex
  2. Did anybody ever hear Weirwille say that all of the "seedboys" believe in reincarnation? WRT the metronome, I don't think that's entirely unique to TWI. Mystical Christains in medieval times practices repetitive prayers and chants. Still creepy.
  3. Wow! After reading the posts on this thread, it's amazing that anybody is in TWI at all. I knew that the Rev. L Craig Martindale was a jerk back in 1981, but I didn't know he was so demented! Weird, just damn weird!
  4. Wasn't Richard T****s a roving WOW in Texas? If so, I recall him as being a really good guy back then. Disciplined, yes, but also interested in moving the Word in love. It seems that the Corps hardened hearts, or least encouraged behaviors that simulated a hardened heart.
  5. I was never in the Corps, but I did attend summer school for 3 weeks with the Corps in 1974. I can't comment on what happened after the mid-70s but I learned much in those 3 weeks. From memory I recall the courses that I took that summer and even some of the instructors. I can't do that for any semester during university! Somerville taught an excellent course in OT history. There was a worthwhile introduction to NT Greek by Cummins. D. Owens taught a class on etiquette, which was new to me and good if one didn't become too legalistic. I also attended good classes on new testament textual criticism and figures of speech, but I don't recall the instructors. I was interested in the topics. The Corps were in the same classes. In addition to the TWI classes, I attended Biblical Studies classes at a university in Texas. For time spent in class and study, I learned far more at the TWI summer school. BUT, and it's a big "but", the Corps program struck me as extreme during that 3-week summer school session. I didn't experience sleep deprivation and I agree with Mr. Lingo that there are many organizations that are far more demanding on one's stamina. But the cuisine left much to be desired -- both in quality and quantity. I don't think I've eaten "Familia" since! The only solution was to buy the "Believer Burgers" to make up for the nutritional shortcoming. Though I found the classes worthwhile, three weeks was enough. Curiously, many of the in-res Corps seemed aloof and haughty, as well as one-dimensional in their personality. I learned more than the coursework of the classes I attended, enough to resist future invitations to join the Corps. Was the Way Corps a complete scam? I don't think so ... it just turned out to be much different than what was pictured in the recruits' minds. After all, weren't you agreeing to become a "bond slave" and didn't you believe that VPW was the MOG? In my opinion, the MOG concept led to all sorts of evil. SkepTex
  6. I was disappointed in the show's content and presentation. The scholars were not particularly insightful in my opinion. Though I respect Karen Armstrong (an agnostic theologian), her written works are far better than her appearances on TV. The believing Christians were rather light on apologetics also. Yeah, there was conflict ... it's all pretty well documented in Acts and the Epistles. It probably was news for folks have a Bible in the closet somewhere.
  7. I never added it and it would be too depressing to try to add it up now. Suffice to say, it was serious money. Somewhere in the middle of the ranges listed for me, but that would include WC sponsorships. It was 20-30 years ago so ,compounded at 8 or 10%, it would be over $50K. Somehow, it still think I was blessed in doing this; it's just that the money did not go to it's highest and best use!
  8. I don't know how to cure tinnitus, but ear candling seems peculiar and dubious therapy. I've had a loud pounding noise in my ears before, but it was always related to swimming. If you ever get swimmers ear, mix up a solution of 1/2 vinegar and 1/2 alcohol and put a few drops in the ear with your head tilted to the side. This was recommended by my ENT and confirmed by my GP. The vinegar works to reduce the surface tension of the water in the ear. The alcohol makes the solution sterile. The uncomfortable sensation that you're experience may be related to the use of peroxide, which is about 97% water. The vinegar/alcohol solution might work if the problem is in your outer ear. You may have an infection in the middle or inner ear. You might have to break down and visit a real physician.
  9. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Dot Matrix: In PA, almost all my classes were filled with Catholics and "cool" searchers of the era. What do you think was the lure for the Catholics? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Poor catechesis. I remember when I was "in," I repeatedly said, "if the denominational churches were doing their job, there would be no need for TWI." I still say that this statement is true. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'd add that it had a lot to do with changes resulting from Vatican II. Vatican II may have been overdue, but it completely removed the awesome ritual, the "mystery" if you will, from the Mass. Without that, the whole enterprise seemed rather devoid of genuine spirituality. This, I think, led many to look elsewhere. I have met many ex-Catholics who deserted their Mother Church for non-denominational Bible churches. Some even went so far as to join a cult in their pursuit of genuine spirituality. The references to bongs may explain why many accepted TWI without an appropriate degree of skepticism.
  10. I don't remember Martindale saying that mountains were formed in the catastrophe between Gen 1:1 and Gen 1:3, but it sounds like something he'd say. I met Martindale in OKC a few years earlier. He impressed me as an egotistical jerk, so I pretty much tuned him out in th '79 AC. I have copious notes from the most of the speakers, but I think I must have spaced out when Martindale spoke ... no notes, just doodles in my notebook.
  11. Very seldom do I give money directly to beggars in the US. There are just too many scamsters. I have helped a few souls that have pressed me with a hard-luck story, but I usually sub-contract my eleemosynary responsibility to Salvation Army, Feed the Children, and a Catholic charity. They're responsible organizations, and they vet out the scamsters for me. Outside of the US, I'm an easy mark. Nobody is faking poverty in Mumbai or Bangkok. Their local charitable organizations are probably more fair in distributing than I am, but the amounts you give beggars are trivial and, even if it is a scam, even the scamsters are desperately poor. SkepTex
  12. EW, I, too, went to a PCA church and was greatly impressed with its Associate Pastor. When I tipped my hand on free will at Sunday school, he kindly gave me a copy of The Five Points of Calvinism. I'm sure you're familiar with this volume. The PCA impressed me with its faithfulness to 'sola scriptura' despite worldly pressures to depart from the faith. I never bought in to the concept of the 'limited atonement', but felt free to hold my own synthesis of free will and election. This doctrinal point posed no problem. However, the Associate Pastor moved on, and the church's Senior Pastor was just a bit uptight for me. I truly believe that I'll see these folks at the resurrection and will enjoy happy fellowship with them then. But, in the meantime, though, it's kind of a drag. I think there are actually several dimensions in selecting a church. The first, as already mentioned, relates to doctrine. The second, relates to the "style" of worship. Some folks really like a liturgical service; others prefer a less rote, unstructured service. Some like the old hymns; others like the modern 'praise' music. Some think communion should be every week; others, less frequently. I don't think God much cares as long as the service is truly worshipful. On doctrine, you're gonna find it hard to get around the Trinity issue if you're still a monotheist (I know, I know) and want to go to a church that believes that Jesus is the Son of God. I've developed a shaky rationalization for worshipping with Trinitarians that I know would be hard to explain and defend. My main doctrinal problem is with the immortality of the soul and the prospects of eternal hellfire for unbelievers. But, I'm one to talk ... I now attend a Nazarene Church 'cause its near my house. I attend infrequently and could hardly call it my "church home". I suppose I'm just a spiritual hitchhiker.
  13. Kit, Never heard of him (or her) before, but the first part of Francis Frangipane's analysis hits the mark for me. Thanks for posting it. I disagree with Frangipane's assertion that "Christian have not had a memorial dedicated to the sufferings of Christ". Every Roman Catholic Church I've ever been in has the Stations of the Cross. Respectful treatment of Christ's Passion was a frequent subject in religious art over the centuries. The Stations are indeed memorials dedicated to the sufferings, but they do not convey as strong of a message to people accustomed to motion pictures. Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" certainly stirred me deeply, awakened latent emotions, resurrected forgotten longings and resonated with my Christian DNA to paraphrase Frangipane. My take-away from the film was a jolting reminder of the seriousness of sin, my own sin in particular. That's why Jesus endured the punishing brutality of the Passion. As a consequence of viewing the film, I have a sense of contrition, an heightened sense of His sacrifice, and a renewed resolve to "go, and sin no more". (Of course, I won't succeed at the latter, but I'll try harder.) Weirwille's interpretation of Scripture did a good job of communicating the Jesus' redemption of sinners, but it discounted the seriousness of sin with Weirwille's dismissal of "sin consciousness" as a category of "doubt, worry, and fear". "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in thy heart that God raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved" does not contain a requirement to comprehend His suffering. However, I think understanding of the consequences of sin -- death generally and the Passion of our Lord specifically -- is an essential dimension to the Christian faith, even if it is not a requirement for salvation. Paul lays this out pretty explicitly before Romans 10:9. When I was a Wayfer, I dismissed any serious reflection of my own thoughts and behaviour as "sin consciousness". Gibson's film inspired some pretty serious reflection in this viewer. But, still, it's just a movie. If you didn't like it, well, that's a matter of taste. Some folks like the old hymns; others like the more modern praise music. SkepTex
  14. Rafael, When you noted that Nicea was not convened to put an end to the Arian heresy, you made a subtle, but accurate, distiction. Indeed, the Council was formed to unify the doctrine of the new state religion. The most objective account that I've read on the topic is in Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. Gibbon describes the build up of the doctrinal conflict at length. Athanasius argued Jesus was homo ousion (of the same substance) with the Father; Arius argued he was homoi ousion (of similar substance) with the Father. At one point, Gibbon reports that tradesmen in Constantinople would engage strangers in a diatribe about Jesus being homo or homoi ousion. Gibbon notes that never had there been such debate over a single letter; an iota at that! Arius won the first round, and Athanasius looked like he was on the way out. In the end, though, the Council determined that Jesus was homo ousion with the Father and Arius' doctrine was denounced as heresy. This dogma was incorporated in the Nicean Creed, minor variants of which are still recited routinely today. The Council's resolution marks the beginning of the Roman Catholic Church as the unifying state religion of the Roman Empire. Those who reject the Trinity hold unorthodox Christian beliefs and are, by definition, heretics. Not long ago, both Protestants and Catholics would burn you at the stake for that. The reason I say that Gibbon was objective is that he didn't care much about the Trinity debate. His thesis was the either way Christianity contributed to the fall of the Roman Empire.
  15. A super thread with lots of insight. Definitely worth a bump for anybody new to Greasespot. SkepTex
  16. LLP is entitled to his opinion that Gibson just did it for the money. That would have been my opinion if I hadn't read as much as I have and actually seen the film. Like LLP, I'm entitled to my more well-informed opinion that there was more to it than that. Having invested in media businesses before, I can tell you that nobody wanted to touch this production. "Passion" had nothing in common with money-making hits ... THE DIALOGUE WAS IN DEAD LANGUAGES FOR CRYING OUT LOUD. I've followed this film since it was originally announced. "Passion" was ridiculed in the industry when the concept was announced. It was criticized when it was in production. It was condemned when it early edits were previewed. No major studio would distribute the film; he took it to Newmarket, which would not share costs. Gibson bore distribution cost out of his own account. This is unprecedented in recent motion picture history. Personally, I wouldn't have invested in it if a partnership interest were offered -- "Passion" would be way too risky for my portfolio. "Passion" did turn out to be successful. But nobody in the business would touch it with a ten-foot pole. Gibson took the risk, and now he gets the return. It's a great film, and a great depiction of the price that Jesus Christ paid for us all. SkepTex
  17. I have two criteria for my sons to see "The Passion of the Christ": 1) They must read all four Gospel accounts of the event and be able to discuss them to my satisfaction. 2) They must want to see the film, knowing full well that it is extraordinarily violent. My 13-year-old son can do #1 but doesn't want to go. My 11-year-old son wants to go, but hasn't yet done #1. There's no way a 6-year-old can appreciate this film. I've been fairly obsessed in reading the film's reviews, and it appears to me that many adult film critics are incapable of understanding this film also. Jonny, I like the way you think about spoilt-brat American kids, but I'd be afraid that, unless they were already Christians, they'd be looking forward to the videogame version of the "The Passion". I can see it now: "From the people who brought you 'Grand Theft Auto', TakeTwo InterActive presents 'The Passionator'. You've seen the film; now get into the action. This intensely graphic game transports the player back to Jerusalem in 33 CE with two modes of play. In RPG mode, the player connives to arrest the Christ and have the Roman authorities crucify him. In 1st person mode, the player experiences the sinful satisfaction of beating the Christ and nailing him to the cross. Software also includes interactive training in using whips, rods, cat o' nine tails, chains and other instruments of torture to maximum effect. Multi-player Internet version available in March 2005. Rated M. Available at Best Buy, Circuit City, and other fine retailers." Sound outlandish? I would have thought so, too, until I learned that my 11-year-old's peers amuse themselves with GTA, the game where the player gets extra points for killing a prostitute before he has to pay for services rendered. Seriously, man, the spoilt brats need to come to Christ first. On the other hand, maybe viewing a realtime execution of a convicted murderer wouldn't be such a bad thing ... a dose of the real consequences of crime might dissuade a kid from GTA. [This message was edited by The Skeptical Texan on March 19, 2004 at 11:18.]
  18. One of the many reviews of "The Passion of the Christ" that alleges anti-Semitism actually managed to make a reasonable point. As you probably know, the mainline Protestant denominations and post-Vatican II RC Church have made compromises to further Jewish-Christian relations. Of course, many scholars made pronouncements to substantiate these compromises. One of the main compromises is the shift the burden of responsibility for Jesus' torture and execution from the Jewish religious authorities to the Roman secular authorities. (Christian doctrines have always assigned the underlying blame upon the sin nature of humans.) Modern scholarship concludes that, in order to avoid persecution from Roman authorities, the Gospel writers added stories about Jesus' rebuke of the religious authorities during his ministry and their conspiracy to have him executed. Some scholars have concluded that Pilate issued the arrest warrant without involvement of the Sanhedrin. This explains why many Jewish groups and some Christian authorities find "The Passion of the Christ" objectionable. The film protrays the Gospel account of the trial rather than the view now held by scholars. The National Council of Churches (USA) suggested an insert into weekly church bulletins that suggests "this movie might set back decades of Jewish-Christian relations". Most folks on this discussion board are probably fairly familiar with the Gospel account. In the key areas, I think Gibson got the Gospel account right. I don't think it adds much to debate the number of crosses or elapsed time between arrest and death on the cross. Anyway, it's been a long time since I reviewed that material. But one particular review made a particularly strong criticism of the timing of the arrest and proceedings. The Jewish writer noted how unlikely it would be that the chief priests would spend their Passover with Gentile legal proceedings. This, I think, is a strong argument if the Last Supper occurred at the beginning of Passover, which is the most common interpretation of the Gospels. On reading the account recorded in John, I really don't understand why the Church ever concluded that the Last Supper was a Passover meal.
  19. Thanks, Mark. That explains it! I don't much buy into the ecstatic visions of Catholic saints, so this part of the film seemed sort of bizarre. I mean, why would the victim's mom clean up the torture chambre? Even if this was strange to me, it didn't significantly detract from my appreciation of the film. It's really the only Catholic-specific scene that I found distracting. Otherwise, the film seemed to be flawless in bridging the Catholic-Protestant divide. Another site hypothesizes about the deformed child. It suggests that the Tempter, who holds the deformed child in a manner reminiscent of the Virgin and Child, is trying to tempt Jesus to recognize the futility of his sacrifice. The deformed child is symbolic of the Anti-Christ who Jesus would have known will eventually appear to tempt many. It is another symbolic reference to the Genesis 3:15 prophecy, which refers not only to bruised heals and heads, but also emnity between the Tempter's seed and the woman's seed. (Please, let's not digress in a 'seed-boy' debate.) This is heavy and, since its topic is Scripture, we're not talking about red pills and blue pills in The Matrix. I'm beginning to wonder whether the film deserves a second viewing! SkepTex
  20. Great film ... deeply moving. I particularly appreciated the fulfillment of Genesis 3:15 and God's raising Jesus from the dead. I didn't get the significance of two apocryphal scenes. Why does Mary blot up the blood of Jesus following the scourging? And, what was the devil and the deformed baby scene about?
  21. I love the story about underwithholding Federal income tax. Since the guy was in early 20s, I doubt that the amounts would have been large enough to cause a penalty. Assuming that to be the case, the kid was exercising good financial management. You should never pay taxes until the law requires it! Here's a story. Picture this: Single mom, loves God, struggles financially, has to juggle priorities with the greatest of finesse. Son, approximately 13, takes first PFAL as soon as she (and he) can save up $85. A month or two later, limb leader observes that not all believers subscribe to the Way Rag. The Way Tree goes into action: limb leader berates branch leader, branch leader berates twig leader, twig leader reproves individual twiggers in twig meeting ... including the mom, whose son already had a subscription by virtue of his recent class enrollment. She simply didn't have discretionary money lying about to buy a completely redundant subscription. Ultimately the twig leader, a bit Way-brained at the time but a really good guy, backed off.
  22. Galen, I don't think that you could beat what you wrote for a succinct, objective description of TWI. Of course, one wouldn't have a complete understanding of TWI without a bunch of wordy, subjective descriptions as well. It's pretty much what I tell others on the rare occasion that I care to, though I leave off the the "Unitarian" part. I've grown tired of the Unitarian/Trinitarian issue, which I researched rather heavily a few years ago, and find that it's just not worth it. SkepTex
  23. Folks, I've been reading posts here for a while and never quite understood why you expressed such loathing for Mike. I figured everybody but me must know Mike's true identity, and disliked him personally ... otherwise, how could you so spiteful? From his posts, Mike just seemed like a misguided soul, seriously adrift a sinking vessel in the uncharted waters of WayWorld. Having some sympathy for the mentally ill and mentally challenged, compassion seemed the more appropriate response to his rantings. And, anyway, the best way to shut the guy up would be to ignore him completely ... just never respond to anything. But now, Mikey has responded to MY posting, and I realize that the guy has a talent for punching hot buttons. Here's what he said: ***************************************************************** The Skeptical Texan, You wrote: ?Yeah, it all came down to money and sex ...but ironically, CF&S was mostly about money.? From the number of times I saw that class run, I think TWI lost money on it. It was video taped twice, once in B&W and then in color. VERY COSTLY. It was run very infrequently. You then wrote: ?I just can't imagine why anybody spend their time defending the infallibility of VPW's writings on this site, but I suppose some folks really do spit into the wind.? Like your guess on the money, your imagination needs help. That?s why I post here, to help armchair generals like you. You?ll never know why I do what I do until you come back to PFAL and master it. Eye has not seen and ear has not heard, neither has it entered the imagination of any man, the things that God has prepared for them that love Him. To love God is easy. Jesus quoted Deut.6 when he pegged the greatest commandment. So, how could those natural men in the OT love God? Look at the verses following that quote early in the chapter. It says master the written Word. We never mastered PFAL like Deut 6 outlines. Until this mastery is undertaken, you can?t imagine what God put in PFAL and why I post this here. ***************************************************************** The man is not just deranged; he's an idiot. (Oops, that's not compassionate. I hope he really has left this thread forever.) VERY COSTLY? FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, the production values of CFS sucked so bad that if TWI could not possibly have spent more money producing this sorry class than it generated in tuition and ABS taken up every session. It's simple arithmetic. Remember that distribution costs were negligible as the classes were sold and administered by volunteer labor working for free. (Of course, after kickbacks to VPW and friends, the accounts could have looked as though it was a loser. But I don't distinguish between TWI revenue generation and VPW's personal corruption in handling TWI funds.) But the citation of DUETERONOMY 6 takes the cake in this context. Our oh-so-ever-enlightened Mike cites Duetronomy 6 to demonstrate the divine inspiration of VPW's PFAL. Dueteronomy 6 follows the enumeration of the 10 Commandments in chapter 5. I surmise that Mike doesn't believe that they apply in any way to our day and time but, regardless of his vain reckoning, they still have relevance. Duetoronomy 6:2 is particularly relevant in this context: "That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged." Let's see did his holiness VPW ever violate any of these commandments; say, perhaps, ADULTERY. I don't have first-hand experience, but others of given their testimony. BUT I DO KNOW THIS: HIS DAYS WERE NOT PROLONGED! VPW didn't make it to the three-score and ten, which the Scripture clearly states is normative. That's a fact Jack ... your MOG died of cancer before 70. If he believe in VPW's divine inspiration, both the cause and timing of his death should cause Mike to reconsider. Face it man, the man is dead as a doornail, his "ministry" is in shambles, and his writings were stolen from the works of others. PFAL? ... don't waste my time. SkepTex
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