Well, Todd, you may be a "skimmer" of this thread, but me ... I've only read the last five posts. (28 pages is incredible !! ) Anyhow, just wanted to let you guys know that a mutual friend of Todd's and mine, who is still in TWI, recently told me ---
---- Now brace yourselves ---
--- Rosalie has formally and officially stated that "The Way International is not the only organization with the truth" !!!!
I really can't believe this discussion has continued for this long.................
28 pages, 1393 posts, 15,140 looks
Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Being that I work out of town, and thus away from my puter for 12 days at a time, I haven't kept up with many threads on a regular basis
Reading thru this one is a challenge....to say the least -->
From the little I have digested.....IMO
PFAL was flawed from the start, and VP said so himself
If God is real, and His words are perfect, then why would God commit Himself to imperfect words written in different colored books whose author admitted were flawed?
Not to mention the fact that author Vp stole concepts and ideas from others
1942 - 1982?
God's window of total salvation?
Mighty narrow time span considering the existrnce of His creation, dontya think
PFAL was and is no more than a collection of ideas, taken from previous authors.....period
Its concepts or precepts are no more God-breathed than the words written in this post
Mike.................I know for a fact that you will read this and I also know you will refute what I say..............directly or indirectly
In the past I have defended you, your right to post your thoughts and ideas here or anywhere
and I have also endeavoured to defend you as a person.............that choice I made months ago still stands, and I hold no ill will toward you
I will say that your view of VP and PFAL are wrong.............that is my opinion
If you want to believe in that as your basis for a Christian life...........have at it, and that is your choice.........amen
Please leave it at the table where you placed it, somebody may pick up your calling card and respond
For all the length of this thread, I STILL have massive amounts of data to post.
Most of this thread is composed of tangents to the topic; some I participated in heavily.
Still a lot of the topic?s data and applications have yet to be posted on, and the ones I have posted on could be discussed in far greater detail.
Maybe someday I can distill it down, but only after I?m finished with the data.
Those of you who think I?m wrong (most posters at present), have yet to see al the data. This is one reason I sometimes resist tight logical inspections of my so far posted data. It?s because I?m aware of what?s to come.
Wasn?t that post of PFAL pages awesome? I found two more to add, and I think I will, but I?ll edit them into the end of the list on whatever page that was.
That post of Dr?s handling of the realms was just the PFAL book ONLY! I have just as many for several more books each! Then there are magazine articles. Steve Lortz?s premature demand for understanding from me on BTMS p.23-24 will eventually find satisfaction in this body of text.
Additional posting I have planned involves applying the key vocabulary words. By carefully noting Dr?s choice of words in various passages in PFAL, we can see deeper and richer truths than when we first were exposed to these writings.
This is one way that Dr?s books unfold.
I said in the beginning of this thread that this was Dr?s UBIQUITOUS, or everywhere present teaching. Not only does he often come out into the open and mention the realm like key words, but he is almost ALWAYS applying this Natural/Spiritual spin to many of his vocabulary words.
The grand finale of applications of this Natural/Spiritual dichotomy is to the subject of spiritual understanding, the operation of the revelation manifestations, and the Appearance of Christ.
Mike, I don't agree with you, but you do have the right to your opinions as the rest of us do. But what I would like to know is Do You Have a Life beyond pfal and posting here?I think I did learn a lot from VPW in pfal, if nothing else I learned to read the bible and to some extent understand what it says, but and a big BUT, I also beleive that one way or another God would have lead me to him without pfal and without VPW. You remind me of the Momons that added the book of mormon to the bible. Have you added pfal to the bible yet? Victor was a man not a God, he also had the morals of an alley cat. so what? so do a lot of people but alot of people don't claim to be so righteous. As a supposed man of God he should have had the decencey to conduct himself like one. Well Mike I had my little say here so post away and I'll skim it from time to time. You are amusing to say the least. Have a great 4th of July.
So many people have mentioned the imposing length of this thread that I decided to do something to try and help.
I've placed a table of contents, or the bare beginnings of one, at the very beginning of page 1. This is only the beginning of a more thorough version to come. I've itemized some of the highlights of the data most pertinent to this thread's understanding.
Oh my gosh, such pressure on you Mike. And to think you offered to answer my questions if I would just post them again so you don't have to spend the time to look them up.
I just can't bear to impose my needs on the greatness of your business. I guess I'll just have to miss out on the grand finale. Dang, & here I thought that I operated manifestations and would partake of the benefits of the Appearance of Christ.
Oh, well, carry on Mike. Don't worry about me, please. At least I'm not going to hell. I'm not going to hell am I? UH OH! If I'm not really receiving revelation and don't partake of the Appearing of Christ - dummm dum dum dum DUMMMMMM!
Oh well, goodbye cruel world. Mike, take my PFAL books and give them to someone who you see will utilize them according to the greatness of your vision.
So many people have mentioned the imposing length of this thread that I decided to do something to try and help.
I've placed a table of contents, or the bare beginnings of one, at the very beginning of page 1. This is only the beginning of a more thorough version to come. I've itemized some of the highlights of the data most pertinent to this thread's understanding.
Gads! Do you ever dare step out of the sarcasm stance with me?
I?ve made some successful attempts at deeper discussion with some. Why are you so impatient or annoyed with my response schedule? I have four times as many posts as you, and I?ve only been registered half the time.
You?ve been on line for a shorter time than some, PLUS you?ve repeatedly ignored (or bothered not read) several questions I?ve posed to you.
So what?s your birds eye low down on this caper? ...whatever that means.
Since vpw used Scripture to defend his points. And you beluieve the Bible is tattered remnants, should we scrap our bibles?
Or should we keep KJV and scrap NIV, NLT et al?
I just bought a copy of the New Living Translation and it opens so much more than 17th century English.
If KJV is still valid, which edition of KJV is acceptable? There have been several revisions since the original 1611 text.
Please explain.
And if what you say is right about the time Dr. made this teaching (i.e. right before he died) Did it ever occur to you that his mind and body were being ravaged by cancer (in wayworld ? a devil spirit) So if he was being possessed (based on vpw's own theology) then how we can take his teaching as logos?
I'll take my chances with the remnants you despise and from teachers you deem unworthy.
So there is no doubt about my pov
I believe in the Bible
I believe in God the Father, God the Son and Holy Spirit.
I believe Jesus died on the cross, rose and ascended and is coming back.
I believe the Holy Spirit dwells within me.
I believe Jesus is the only way to heaven.
I believe Jesus' words are the words of God.
I believe the Old Testament has the same authority as the New since the word does not contradict itself.
I believe I have found the true God and have rejected ALL that vpw taught.
Gads! Do you ever dare step out of the sarcasm stance with me?
I?ve made some successful attempts at deeper discussion with some. Why are you so impatient or annoyed with my response schedule? I have four times as many posts as you, and I?ve only been registered half the time.
You?ve been on line for a shorter time than some, PLUS you?ve repeatedly ignored (or bothered not read) several questions I?ve posed to you.
So what?s your birds eye low down on this caper? ...whatever that means.
Hi Mike,
I did dare. I'm not impatient or annoyed with your response schedule. Your response schedule is absurd in the extreme. The extremity of its absurdity begs for sarcasm, the truth of it seeming too hard to come at directly. I apologize, Mike. Sarcasm sucks & is offensive.
You seem to strain at a knat and swallow a camel. Your attempts at deeper discussion are liberally peppered with rediculous pronouncements that are blatant contradictions to or in the doctrine you profess. Many have tried in many ways to point them out to you, but you continue to blunder over the stumbling stone in favor of your "depth." That invites mockery, not that you appear the fool for Christ's sake, but that you appear to make Christ look the fool.
My sarcasm was my crude attempt to make the obvious more obvious. Silly and mean, I know. I'm sorry. I'll stop.
To answer your question about E.W. Kenyon - I don't know. He wrote something called A New Kind of Love I think that was what it was called - and I suspect that was the name of what Wierwille stole and renamed The Love Way. You can find it easily at Amazon.com
Speaking of staining at knats and swallowing camels - why bother to read both texts looking for changes as indicators that the "revelation" had changed when Wierwille stole the whole thing either exactly & in its entirety or almost - acting as if it were his own "revelation" from God. Why not recognize the disgrace as the dishonor to Christ that it was instead of continuing to profess, compound, and partake of his dishonesty, hypocrisy, and sin?
That's my "birds eye low down on this caper."
Oh, and you ought not to ask questions when you don't even know what the question means, "low down on this caper? ...whatever that means."
"Caper" is absolutely the correct term.
As to its meaning - a caper is "A crime (especially a robbery)," or "A ludicrous or grotesque act done for fun and amusement." From Word Web.
Please discontinue presenting this caper in the name of Jesus Christ.
quote: Wierwille stole the whole thing either exactly & in its entirety or almost - acting as if it were his own "revelation" from God. Why not recognize the disgrace as the dishonor to Christ that it was instead of continuing to profess, compound, and partake of his dishonesty, hypocrisy, and sin?
Gee Mike... I've only been around here a short time but... in reading anything you've ever posted... all I can think to ask is:
Do you feel your purpose in life is to:
1)be right
2) be condescending or
3) cause strife
...because it doesn't seem like you're really interested in any "healing dialogue" or "constructive criticism" or... well anything but the above three things...
...it's been suggested numerous times that "you might want to find a different place to visit"... and the only name I've seen you post in is "in the name of Mike"...
Dude, your message is lost here... don't you see that?...
well... take care and write again soon...
I looked behind the curtain and saw that it was bad
MIke, the only person who appears to agree with you is seaspray. Me thinks that maybe you are seaspray. It seems to me that you are just spinning your wheels in here but you do have the right to do that.
Mike, After reading your index I have realized that this is going no where. It has totally turned me off to any of your thinking. I can't be part of a thread that is worshipping vpw. I will not participate nor will I read any of your threads. I hope your happy with your living for vpw and that his words will be peaceful to you as long as you go with it. Have a nice life!!!! bye
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
That table of contents is a joke..... I`ll just BET mike wishes folks would go straight to the points he wants to make via those links....(coincidentaly I am sure) bypassing all of the pertinant information, and logical challenges that so many posters have given displaying the ignorance of Mikes premise...
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Yanagisawa
Did you say "get the ball rolling" or get the kaballa rolling...for it sounds like that's your current freak - some sort of hidden, mystical kaballa-esque gnostic esotericism. I'm fascinated with you
Schwaigers
Well, Todd, you may be a "skimmer" of this thread, but me ... I've only read the last five posts. (28 pages is incredible !! ) Anyhow, just wanted to let you guys know that a mutual friend of Todd's and mine, who is still in TWI, recently told me ---
---- Now brace yourselves ---
--- Rosalie has formally and officially stated that "The Way International is not the only organization with the truth" !!!!
-Pat
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sirguessalot
Hi, Pat.
That's interesting news.
Maybe part spin and part wake-up on RRs part?
Anyway, I'm sending you an email.
Say hi to the fam for me.
Mike,
The challenge was for us all.
You and the mission of your thread is just a good clear example of the issue.
Sorry.
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firebee
I really can't believe this discussion has continued for this long.................
28 pages, 1393 posts, 15,140 looks
Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Being that I work out of town, and thus away from my puter for 12 days at a time, I haven't kept up with many threads on a regular basis
Reading thru this one is a challenge....to say the least
-->
From the little I have digested.....IMO
PFAL was flawed from the start, and VP said so himself
If God is real, and His words are perfect, then why would God commit Himself to imperfect words written in different colored books whose author admitted were flawed?
Not to mention the fact that author Vp stole concepts and ideas from others
1942 - 1982?
God's window of total salvation?
Mighty narrow time span considering the existrnce of His creation, dontya think
PFAL was and is no more than a collection of ideas, taken from previous authors.....period
Its concepts or precepts are no more God-breathed than the words written in this post
Mike.................I know for a fact that you will read this and I also know you will refute what I say..............directly or indirectly
In the past I have defended you, your right to post your thoughts and ideas here or anywhere
and I have also endeavoured to defend you as a person.............that choice I made months ago still stands, and I hold no ill will toward you
I will say that your view of VP and PFAL are wrong.............that is my opinion
If you want to believe in that as your basis for a Christian life...........have at it, and that is your choice.........amen
Please leave it at the table where you placed it, somebody may pick up your calling card and respond
It won't be me
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Tom
Good point, Sir G
2 Timothy 2:19a  ¶Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his...
Don't fret,
Tom
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Mike
For all the length of this thread, I STILL have massive amounts of data to post.
Most of this thread is composed of tangents to the topic; some I participated in heavily.
Still a lot of the topic?s data and applications have yet to be posted on, and the ones I have posted on could be discussed in far greater detail.
Maybe someday I can distill it down, but only after I?m finished with the data.
Those of you who think I?m wrong (most posters at present), have yet to see al the data. This is one reason I sometimes resist tight logical inspections of my so far posted data. It?s because I?m aware of what?s to come.
Wasn?t that post of PFAL pages awesome? I found two more to add, and I think I will, but I?ll edit them into the end of the list on whatever page that was.
That post of Dr?s handling of the realms was just the PFAL book ONLY! I have just as many for several more books each! Then there are magazine articles. Steve Lortz?s premature demand for understanding from me on BTMS p.23-24 will eventually find satisfaction in this body of text.
Additional posting I have planned involves applying the key vocabulary words. By carefully noting Dr?s choice of words in various passages in PFAL, we can see deeper and richer truths than when we first were exposed to these writings.
This is one way that Dr?s books unfold.
I said in the beginning of this thread that this was Dr?s UBIQUITOUS, or everywhere present teaching. Not only does he often come out into the open and mention the realm like key words, but he is almost ALWAYS applying this Natural/Spiritual spin to many of his vocabulary words.
The grand finale of applications of this Natural/Spiritual dichotomy is to the subject of spiritual understanding, the operation of the revelation manifestations, and the Appearance of Christ.
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wyteduv58
Mike, I don't agree with you, but you do have the right to your opinions as the rest of us do. But what I would like to know is Do You Have a Life beyond pfal and posting here?I think I did learn a lot from VPW in pfal, if nothing else I learned to read the bible and to some extent understand what it says, but and a big BUT, I also beleive that one way or another God would have lead me to him without pfal and without VPW. You remind me of the Momons that added the book of mormon to the bible. Have you added pfal to the bible yet? Victor was a man not a God, he also had the morals of an alley cat. so what? so do a lot of people but alot of people don't claim to be so righteous. As a supposed man of God he should have had the decencey to conduct himself like one. Well Mike I had my little say here so post away and I'll skim it from time to time. You are amusing to say the least. Have a great 4th of July.
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Mike
So many people have mentioned the imposing length of this thread that I decided to do something to try and help.
I've placed a table of contents, or the bare beginnings of one, at the very beginning of page 1. This is only the beginning of a more thorough version to come. I've itemized some of the highlights of the data most pertinent to this thread's understanding.
Maybe this can help.
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Tom
Oh my gosh, such pressure on you Mike. And to think you offered to answer my questions if I would just post them again so you don't have to spend the time to look them up.
I just can't bear to impose my needs on the greatness of your business. I guess I'll just have to miss out on the grand finale. Dang, & here I thought that I operated manifestations and would partake of the benefits of the Appearance of Christ.
Oh, well, carry on Mike. Don't worry about me, please. At least I'm not going to hell. I'm not going to hell am I? UH OH! If I'm not really receiving revelation and don't partake of the Appearing of Christ - dummm dum dum dum DUMMMMMM!
Oh well, goodbye cruel world. Mike, take my PFAL books and give them to someone who you see will utilize them according to the greatness of your vision.
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Mike
So many people have mentioned the imposing length of this thread that I decided to do something to try and help.
I've placed a table of contents, or the bare beginnings of one, at the very beginning of page 1. This is only the beginning of a more thorough version to come. I've itemized some of the highlights of the data most pertinent to this thread's understanding.
Maybe this can help.
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Mike
Thomas Heller,
Gads! Do you ever dare step out of the sarcasm stance with me?
I?ve made some successful attempts at deeper discussion with some. Why are you so impatient or annoyed with my response schedule? I have four times as many posts as you, and I?ve only been registered half the time.
You?ve been on line for a shorter time than some, PLUS you?ve repeatedly ignored (or bothered not read) several questions I?ve posed to you.
So what?s your birds eye low down on this caper? ...whatever that means.
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firebee
As per your request Mike..................
"This is a work in progress.
I?ll attempt to get it up to date, and then keep it up to date.
Suggestions welcome."
My suggestion is qiute simple...........................
Give it up...............Try your batting average in the Little League.............you'd be under the bench
Mike...........the adult............grow up, smell the coffee
I am NOT a devil spirit sent by Satan to be YOUR thorn in the side, rather I am a friend who simply asks............knock it off
The PFAL package of words is not, nor will ever be, tantamount to Godly advice or doctrine.
Have fun with your freedom, brother............
Speak your mind and/or heart
Don't ever feel surprised that the regugitation of VP's writings are rejected
"He that followeth a liar and a thief shall be condemed to the same fate as the leader, plus seven times seventy".............I Firebee 3:17a
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def59
Mike,
Since vpw used Scripture to defend his points. And you beluieve the Bible is tattered remnants, should we scrap our bibles?
Or should we keep KJV and scrap NIV, NLT et al?
I just bought a copy of the New Living Translation and it opens so much more than 17th century English.
If KJV is still valid, which edition of KJV is acceptable? There have been several revisions since the original 1611 text.
Please explain.
And if what you say is right about the time Dr. made this teaching (i.e. right before he died) Did it ever occur to you that his mind and body were being ravaged by cancer (in wayworld ? a devil spirit) So if he was being possessed (based on vpw's own theology) then how we can take his teaching as logos?
I'll take my chances with the remnants you despise and from teachers you deem unworthy.
So there is no doubt about my pov
I believe in the Bible
I believe in God the Father, God the Son and Holy Spirit.
I believe Jesus died on the cross, rose and ascended and is coming back.
I believe the Holy Spirit dwells within me.
I believe Jesus is the only way to heaven.
I believe Jesus' words are the words of God.
I believe the Old Testament has the same authority as the New since the word does not contradict itself.
I believe I have found the true God and have rejected ALL that vpw taught.
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Tom
Hi Mike,
I did dare. I'm not impatient or annoyed with your response schedule. Your response schedule is absurd in the extreme. The extremity of its absurdity begs for sarcasm, the truth of it seeming too hard to come at directly. I apologize, Mike. Sarcasm sucks & is offensive.
You seem to strain at a knat and swallow a camel. Your attempts at deeper discussion are liberally peppered with rediculous pronouncements that are blatant contradictions to or in the doctrine you profess. Many have tried in many ways to point them out to you, but you continue to blunder over the stumbling stone in favor of your "depth." That invites mockery, not that you appear the fool for Christ's sake, but that you appear to make Christ look the fool.
My sarcasm was my crude attempt to make the obvious more obvious. Silly and mean, I know. I'm sorry. I'll stop.
To answer your question about E.W. Kenyon - I don't know. He wrote something called A New Kind of Love I think that was what it was called - and I suspect that was the name of what Wierwille stole and renamed The Love Way. You can find it easily at Amazon.com
Speaking of staining at knats and swallowing camels - why bother to read both texts looking for changes as indicators that the "revelation" had changed when Wierwille stole the whole thing either exactly & in its entirety or almost - acting as if it were his own "revelation" from God. Why not recognize the disgrace as the dishonor to Christ that it was instead of continuing to profess, compound, and partake of his dishonesty, hypocrisy, and sin?
That's my "birds eye low down on this caper."
Oh, and you ought not to ask questions when you don't even know what the question means, "low down on this caper? ...whatever that means."
"Caper" is absolutely the correct term.
As to its meaning - a caper is "A crime (especially a robbery)," or "A ludicrous or grotesque act done for fun and amusement." From Word Web.
Please discontinue presenting this caper in the name of Jesus Christ.
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Mike
Thomas Heller,
It is in the name of Jesus Christ that I post.
Your request is denied.
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rascal
The name of Jesus Christ? I don`t think so, the only name I have seen you post in is vpw mof wisc ....
If you were posting in the name of Jesus or even about Jesus ... maybe we would have a little respect for you on that topic of discussion.
P.s. I ought to have known that your *table of contents* would not be an honest representation of this thread...
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Tom
I know.
That's the disgrace I was talking about.
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Tom Strange
Gee Mike... I've only been around here a short time but... in reading anything you've ever posted... all I can think to ask is:
Do you feel your purpose in life is to:
1)be right
2) be condescending or
3) cause strife
...because it doesn't seem like you're really interested in any "healing dialogue" or "constructive criticism" or... well anything but the above three things...
...it's been suggested numerous times that "you might want to find a different place to visit"... and the only name I've seen you post in is "in the name of Mike"...
Dude, your message is lost here... don't you see that?...
well... take care and write again soon...
I looked behind the curtain and saw that it was bad
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wyteduv58
MIke, the only person who appears to agree with you is seaspray. Me thinks that maybe you are seaspray. It seems to me that you are just spinning your wheels in here but you do have the right to do that.
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def59
Mike
I am surprised and shocked. No response. I guess that means I win doesn't it?
Well folks, war's over. Time to end the thread.
W
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excathedra
mike, do you ever feel lonely ?
do the light of pfal / wierwille's messages warm your heart and keep you going ?
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Tom Strange
MsEx: you're so compassionate!
Mike's not gone... he's working on the index...
I looked behind the curtain and saw that it was bad
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Tom
Bye everyone.
I'm outa here for a week - visiting my kids.
Love ya,
Tom
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vickles
Mike, After reading your index I have realized that this is going no where. It has totally turned me off to any of your thinking. I can't be part of a thread that is worshipping vpw. I will not participate nor will I read any of your threads. I hope your happy with your living for vpw and that his words will be peaceful to you as long as you go with it. Have a nice life!!!! bye
Ok!! I will not try to be a nice person...ok? I will not!!
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rascal
That table of contents is a joke..... I`ll just BET mike wishes folks would go straight to the points he wants to make via those links....(coincidentaly I am sure) bypassing all of the pertinant information, and logical challenges that so many posters have given displaying the ignorance of Mikes premise...
Geeze ........
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