but EX if someone is writing and using your story as an example of sexual abuse by vpw. and the thread got crazy I think you would want to chime in like now in this thread.
with a written testimony you wouldnt have to you could just reference the questions about your experience to that and not have to rehash it all over again.
no one would have to defend or misquote or read anything to understand and you could answer question if you chose in a private PM or soemthing to those you wanted to.
you wouldnt have to read it you know what it would say. and you wouldnt have to answer any querys . I would think it would be easier.
your alot more than what you say about your history with vpw.
I would not put a label on you .
to me your funny and kind and a poster who is fun in many ways and manners.
maybe your saying you do not want to be labeled as the victim of abuse at greasspot .
I understand that ex. I really do. and I do not think of you in such a manner , and I do understand how you may think others would.
But it is important to you to let others know your truth.
and you do end up having to get involved whether someone posts a link or whatever... in my thinking I just thought it would be eaiser to just reference that and not have to engage in the negative stuff for YOU .
because you do add alot of nice ness and joy to greas spot. and that is how I think of you .
Has VPW ever been sued during his years in charge, or is there any documents or letters inviting woman to his room or motor coach.
I know you have done your homework on plagerism's.
If those documents are out there, they should be displayed on the front page of GSC as well.
I am not trying to open wounds in those who have discussed on the boards thier personal spiritual hurt brought on by this man...I apologize to those, I am not trying to hurt anyone..
LETTERS?!?!?!?!?!
Dear Ms. Thang,
I like the, heh heh, assets you bring to the ministry and would like to examine them more closely. Please meet me in my motorcoach at midnight, and don't tell your husband, boyfriend or father.
Yours Falsely,
MOG.
Umm, no. The real life testimony of real life women is more tangible proof to me than some smoking gun letter that no one in his right mind would write.
So VPW was never sued. So what? Neither was Marting Luther King Jr, and he adultered left and right. It simply happened.
I believe it was a teaching about how to deal with issues within the church. I think it applies to the church today as well.
the difference is no one can confront vpw now nor can any confrontation effect change or speak knowledge of an incident , why because frankly the man is dead, and no one can go to the meeting even with two or three witness and speak of anything. a vital part of those instructions is the fact the one being accused is involved in the procedure. I believe the point was to allow problems to be dealt with without gossip or any question of what was being said about another. it can not be done now people can accuse all they want But it is not going to be done from a point of reference of that scripture as he is dead.
Yes. he is dead and there are ways in dealing with this all. May I suggest a book called "God's Remedy for Rejection-By Derek Prince"
It is very enlightening and useful in understanding a lot of issues we may have-toward anyone.
I do not want to quote the book, but to encourage you to reach out yourself for answers, get your self a copy. Go to the library if need be.
Setting yourself free from all this junk we carry around in life can be done. Come before the Lord he is waiting, Forgiveness and forgetting can be a reality for us all.
but to feel as though it "should be told" as many do , it would be easier , than trying to sort through all what others may think or feel or chose, to say about their experience.
It is already written down, all people have to do is search by a few keywords... there's no sifting required, it's right there in black and white...
no need to re-post... if folks want to see it, it's right there for them...
I believe the point of the scripture you use as examples was ...
Pond, I'd respond to this, but my post WAS a response to this. You just said the same thing in more words.
So, if you want to read a response to this, reread what I posted.
BTW, are you aware that you're doing the same thing in your argument with Ex & Cool? Are you aware that you just keep saying basically the same thing over and over. Do you think that if you outlast people who disagree with you that you've achieved some victory in conversational skill?
Pond: Ex, I think you should post a graphic represention of yourself in the act with VP on the opening page of the GS website with complete explanation. In a real conversation, you have to hear what the other person says also.
Ex: I don't want to.
Pond: You should want to.
Ex: I don't.
Pond: You should.
Ex: Don't
Pond : Should
Don't should don't should don't should don't should don't should.
Isn't there something in abusive relationships about an unwillingness on the part of the abuser to understand the word "No?"
It is already written down, all people have to do is search by a few keywords... there's no sifting required, it's right there in black and white...
no need to re-post... if folks want to see it, it's right there for them...
Well maybe those who know how to work this forum it is easy.
But mostly it happens as a question by somone who wants to knw something and a thread like this begins and it is lengthy and side tracked and full of attacks personal and name calling.
alot to find out an answwer to one question.
I do not know how to "look up topics", if you do not know the names of those who discussed it what area would you go to and it is difficult.
I think . you have alot of information tom strange and your familiar with the forum and its people . so for you it would be easy .
a person who is not would have to ask a simple question like the person who began this thread .. and look how it went. looks like alot of garbage now and not much help for the question posed .
a testimony would be simple and no one would get "hurt" .or have to repeat their story.
Raf
I do think it is common , doesnt make it right but it does happen alot im sure of it .
Well maybe those who know how to work this forum it is easy.
I went to search here recently for the first time, & was amazed at how easy to use and complete the search function is here. Who needs people's names - put in adultery, etc, as has been already said - you're not listening again or ignoring what people are saying, Pond.
I do think it might be a little difficult for those few who are new to the internet, but as I said, it is time to learn. It is not too much to ask someone who is on the internet to learn how to use its tools, especially when they are so simple as they are here.
I went to search here recently for the first time, & was amazed at how easy to use and complete the search function is here. Who needs people's names - put in adultery, etc, as has been already said - you're not listening again or ignoring what people are saying, Pond.
I do think it might be a little difficult for those few who are new to the internet, but as I said, it is time to learn. It is not too much to ask someone who is on the internet to learn how to use its tools, especially when they are so simple as they are here.
yeah could be it is simple I have never "searched" or used the tools here.
But it seems to me the threads are very long and often full of stuff that makes little sense like personal attacks and name calling so it was only an idea.
tom just to satify you I did PM excath and i do not think she feels pressure from me to comply . she would certainly say so if she did I trust. I know she knows how I feel for her at least I have atempted to say so.
ealier in the day of course. and no one is under any compulsion to say or do anything on this forum of course.
it just seems the band wagon gets icky and Im not one to place blame but if the threads with the actual discussion s are anything like this one I would find it difficult to navitgate as a new person to greasspot.
it was only an idea. man I really do not get the opposing side at all on this.
Some sound as if this is very important news to them and why they continue to post on greas spot , so I thought it was a help not anything eles.
your alot more than what you say about your history with vpw.
I would not put a label on you .
to me your funny and kind and a poster who is fun in many ways and manners.
maybe your saying you do not want to be labeled as the victim of abuse at greasspot .
I understand that ex. I really do. and I do not think of you in such a manner , and I do understand how you may think others would.
But it is important to you to let others know your truth.
and you do end up having to get involved whether someone posts a link or whatever... in my thinking I just thought it would be eaiser to just reference that and not have to engage in the negative stuff for YOU .
because you do add alot of nice ness and joy to greas spot. and that is how I think of you .
not black or white.
just a suggestin .
thank you, pond
it's hard for me to explain why that wouldn't be easy for me
I don't think the original question to start this thread is unreasonable....There's now something like 250,000 posts to sift through...Greasespot isn't in any way written in a newspaper or any other sort of periodical format...It's a discussion forum, haphazardly dotted with a smattering of facts...Most threads that discuss Weirwille's sexcapades are usually inundated with opinions,arguments and a lot of 'heard it from a friend of a friend ' type of testimonials...
I don't think any woman who was one of Wirwille's victims owes anybody anything---here,at gs or anyplace else....That experience is their burden to either share or keep to themselves as they choose...I also don't think anything resembling 'proof' could actually come from this or any other website,20 years after Wierwille is dead and gone...Of course,this isn't a court of law,either...
Could Greasespot as a whole be considered a 'reliable source' of information regarding VPW's adultrous affairs?...I don't know and the answer may not matter to anybody here....I've been here about four years and I can only recollect one first hand account and two or three attempts of VPW's adultry...Of course,I know of others who do not post here,and I consider all the testimonials reliable....Yet,I know of many other exwayfers,non gs members,who ask about VPW's adultry,and I can't honestly say I'd send them here to get the 'inside scoop'...
tom just to satify you I did PM excath and i do not think she feels pressure from me to comply . she would certainly say so if she did I trust. I know she knows how I feel for her at least I have atempted to say so.
Okay, thanks for that info, Pond. It does satisfy me, & I appreciate you mitigating my concerns on that account in so kindly a manner.
Hi Seth here, I have a hypothetical question, not meaning to derail this thread but parallel it.
What if men started coming forward to relate their sexual encounters with other male leadership in TWI? What if they came forward and described similar coersion by a top leader or two who afterwards if the leader wasn't successful in his attempt or felt his little secret would get out, publicly denounced and claimed his victim was more possed then a new boot in hell? What would we think then, surely if a man says it, it must be true?
Now Men, put yourself in the ladies shoes, if you feel as a man you could never ever share something like that on-line or even in private. Do not these women deserve some respect and honor for being brave enough to put in writting as a matter of public record their personnal stories of abuse? Do you not think for one moment these women thought a hundred times before exposing this? Do you not think that they thought a thousand times "Oh, they will never believe me." or do you not think they said to themselves ten thousand times, "what if they call me a liar?". Not in a million years would I lay at the feet of these honorable women even a grain of doubt. They have paid the price of admission to write their stories here, they should be honored and respected, because of the pain they carried for years with no outlet, no forum, no voice. Here they have a voice and a right and I for one will not sit by and have these wonderful ladies by told to prove it, telling them to prove it in my eyes is the same as telling them to shutup, I won't have it!
Threads dealing with the sexual exploits of spiritual leaders are always explosive. Those that were victims have to relive it.
Those that weren't, fall into numerous categories. There are some that understand. There are some that live in denial. There are some that just can't believe someone like VPW or LCM could possibly do it. And there are those that want to understand, but don't quite understand the dynamics of the situation.
All of these folks have something to say. It ranges from unbelievable paralysis to explain; to the dismissive statements by those that choose to remain uneducated and/or ignorant.
All have legitimate statements from their perspective though some insist on not being compassionate. I've never been able to make any "rule" that would include compassion. That becomes an individual decision. I would hope that on threads of this type, you would be compassionate for the scars of others, but I can't make a rule for it. It is possible to have compassion while disagreeing a point.
I've spoken with some that have been victims of these incidents and it is not something that can translate to a post in a thread. If someone doesn't want to share the details, don't try to force it. They have the right to share what they want when they want.
I recently told an "innie" relative about VPW. She laughed, denied, called it rumor, and then said "I was in the motorcoach, and nothing happend to me!"
SO!!! I run in the park alone sometimes too, and I have never been attacked!
Does this ridiculous method of logic determine its validity?
Not at all.
How do you prove if you were victimized in any way? You have to go immediatley to the POLICE and get "examined". And even then, who's to say you weren't a willing participant? See how evil this whole mentality is?
Don't forget the "innie" mentality either. We all were duped in one way or another. So being conned, groomed, lured, flattered, or seduced, by these leeches, would leave one stupified! You wouldn't be able to peice it all together because your thinking skills were put on hold for so long.
I was never attacked or molested physically by anyone it TWI.
But, I was molested with THEIR EYES and MOUTH.
How do I prove this? Can't.
But I know what I saw, how I felt, and what I heard.
Just the mere fact that it is spoken by more than one woman is enough for me to believe.
Those who demand proof other than what our wonderful women have stated don't want anything more than a blow by blow description of what happened. They want to know what kind of liquor was it that the bus driver served them. They want to know what did his member look like....they want to know how it sounded and how it smelled. They want every sordid dirty detail because they are voyeurs and want those like excathy to paint them a word picture of a triple X pornographic flick!
If and when they get that picture, they'll compare it piece by piece looking for inconsistencies so they can say it never happened. All they want is their own amusement at these women's expense.
Seth made an excellent point.
Now I want to ask you.....suppose your young teenage daughter came to you and told you a certain supposedly close family member or someone else whom you trusted such as a teacher or church official - suppose she came to you and told her she was molested. Would you treat her the same way? If so, IMHO you suck as a parent.
this seems to be another one of those posts where everything gets blown out of porportion.
the question was " Are there any documents or lawsuits" placed against VPW.
You guys just couldnt answer a simple question. You read way to much into things.
It seems if the words VPW and sex put together automaticaly sets off alarms and just encourages more strife and anger than needed.
I never asked of the woman who post here to bring forth their experiences and display them again......It wasnt a post I was looking for.
this is not a game to me...I have lost my marriage,friends,death,excrutiating pain that brought me to my knee's many of nights, I dont realy care to share on these boards..I have only shared a minut part of my experiences...
My 2 daughters where humiliated by people and also had their hearts very bruised by the Way.....We are helping each other get past and move on...but, at times it still hits my gut....
A fri**in simple question.......a fri**in simple ?
I do not know of other websites to go to..this is the only one...
I realy dont care to hear anymore of your comments..thank you
{{{Likeaneagle}}} I think you're wonderful. I don't think you (or Eagle, in starting this thread) had any malicious intent or desire to know all the gorey details.
Krys, I like you and respect your opinions, but I think what you've posted is uncharacteristically unfair of you. I have to wonder if you read the whole thread, or if maybe you just reacting to one or two obnoxious posts.
As Simon said, I also know only one person who came forward on GSC and directly stated that VPW abused her, and I can think of two or three who have said he tried something with them or a friend or family member. I have no doubt whatsoever that they're telling the truth. Not one iota.
I want people to do what THEY need to do when it comes to this subject. In other words, no one is obligated to tell his or her story here and no one ever should feel obligated or be pressured in any way. On the other hand, if telling one's story helps people heal, I think they should tell it as often as they need and want to and not be berated for retelling it. If SOME people don't want to read it, they should skip posts on the topic.
Having said all that, I don't think Eagle's question was out of line. Some people only post here occasionally. That is their right. Some people haven't read every thread. Some people come here as newbies and are trying to sort things out. What would better help them to do that: facts or third- and fourth- and whatever-hand stories that have reached urban legend proportions?
I've thought about this thread for the past couple days now, pondering whether it might be worth a poll. That way people could share their experiences totally anonymously, yet people who want to know could get some answers.
The poll choices would go something like this:
--I was forced to have sex with VPW (i.e., he raped me).
--VPW manipulated me into having sex with him (i.e., he abused his position as a minister and harmed me).
--VPW tried to entice me into having sex with him but didn't succeed.
--I had sex with VPW willingly.
--I was never approached by VPW for sex (and never approached him).
I'd like to know what people think of this idea before I actually post a poll. Maybe just the fact that there's a poll would be hurtful to people who were abused. I don't want that, so that's why I'm asking. If it's a stupid idea, we can forget it. It just seems like a way to get to some facts rather than "somebody told my friend who told her sister who told me." I would love to see people who have firsthand knowledge participate in the poll.
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pond
but EX if someone is writing and using your story as an example of sexual abuse by vpw. and the thread got crazy I think you would want to chime in like now in this thread.
with a written testimony you wouldnt have to you could just reference the questions about your experience to that and not have to rehash it all over again.
no one would have to defend or misquote or read anything to understand and you could answer question if you chose in a private PM or soemthing to those you wanted to.
you wouldnt have to read it you know what it would say. and you wouldnt have to answer any querys . I would think it would be easier.
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likeaneagle
yea or nea works for me....
TH evidence that LCM is clear..
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CoolWaters
Aha! Self-serving somethingorother somethingorother this n that whatever!
This was never about your care for people's heart.
*****************
Dear Darlene Thelma,
Sometimes feeding the trolls gets things put where they belong...
Like down in the zoo...?
I dunno...I'm in the mood right this second.
But in about 3 seconds I'm gonna be outta the mood and off to GGGW!!!!!
WOO HOO!!!!!!!!!!!
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pond
to me ex
your alot more than what you say about your history with vpw.
I would not put a label on you .
to me your funny and kind and a poster who is fun in many ways and manners.
maybe your saying you do not want to be labeled as the victim of abuse at greasspot .
I understand that ex. I really do. and I do not think of you in such a manner , and I do understand how you may think others would.
But it is important to you to let others know your truth.
and you do end up having to get involved whether someone posts a link or whatever... in my thinking I just thought it would be eaiser to just reference that and not have to engage in the negative stuff for YOU .
because you do add alot of nice ness and joy to greas spot. and that is how I think of you .
not black or white.
just a suggestin .
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Raf
LETTERS?!?!?!?!?!
Dear Ms. Thang,
I like the, heh heh, assets you bring to the ministry and would like to examine them more closely. Please meet me in my motorcoach at midnight, and don't tell your husband, boyfriend or father.
Yours Falsely,
MOG.
Umm, no. The real life testimony of real life women is more tangible proof to me than some smoking gun letter that no one in his right mind would write.
So VPW was never sued. So what? Neither was Marting Luther King Jr, and he adultered left and right. It simply happened.
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Ca_dreaming
Pond
Yes. he is dead and there are ways in dealing with this all. May I suggest a book called "God's Remedy for Rejection-By Derek Prince"
It is very enlightening and useful in understanding a lot of issues we may have-toward anyone.
I do not want to quote the book, but to encourage you to reach out yourself for answers, get your self a copy. Go to the library if need be.
Setting yourself free from all this junk we carry around in life can be done. Come before the Lord he is waiting, Forgiveness and forgetting can be a reality for us all.
That all I have to say for now......
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Tom Strange
It is already written down, all people have to do is search by a few keywords... there's no sifting required, it's right there in black and white...
no need to re-post... if folks want to see it, it's right there for them...
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Tom
Pond, I'd respond to this, but my post WAS a response to this. You just said the same thing in more words.
So, if you want to read a response to this, reread what I posted.
BTW, are you aware that you're doing the same thing in your argument with Ex & Cool? Are you aware that you just keep saying basically the same thing over and over. Do you think that if you outlast people who disagree with you that you've achieved some victory in conversational skill?
Pond: Ex, I think you should post a graphic represention of yourself in the act with VP on the opening page of the GS website with complete explanation. In a real conversation, you have to hear what the other person says also.
Ex: I don't want to.
Pond: You should want to.
Ex: I don't.
Pond: You should.
Ex: Don't
Pond : Should
Don't should don't should don't should don't should don't should.
Isn't there something in abusive relationships about an unwillingness on the part of the abuser to understand the word "No?"
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pond
Well maybe those who know how to work this forum it is easy.
But mostly it happens as a question by somone who wants to knw something and a thread like this begins and it is lengthy and side tracked and full of attacks personal and name calling.
alot to find out an answwer to one question.
I do not know how to "look up topics", if you do not know the names of those who discussed it what area would you go to and it is difficult.
I think . you have alot of information tom strange and your familiar with the forum and its people . so for you it would be easy .
a person who is not would have to ask a simple question like the person who began this thread .. and look how it went. looks like alot of garbage now and not much help for the question posed .
a testimony would be simple and no one would get "hurt" .or have to repeat their story.
Raf
I do think it is common , doesnt make it right but it does happen alot im sure of it .
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Tom
I went to search here recently for the first time, & was amazed at how easy to use and complete the search function is here. Who needs people's names - put in adultery, etc, as has been already said - you're not listening again or ignoring what people are saying, Pond.
I do think it might be a little difficult for those few who are new to the internet, but as I said, it is time to learn. It is not too much to ask someone who is on the internet to learn how to use its tools, especially when they are so simple as they are here.
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pond
yeah could be it is simple I have never "searched" or used the tools here.
But it seems to me the threads are very long and often full of stuff that makes little sense like personal attacks and name calling so it was only an idea.
tom just to satify you I did PM excath and i do not think she feels pressure from me to comply . she would certainly say so if she did I trust. I know she knows how I feel for her at least I have atempted to say so.
ealier in the day of course. and no one is under any compulsion to say or do anything on this forum of course.
it just seems the band wagon gets icky and Im not one to place blame but if the threads with the actual discussion s are anything like this one I would find it difficult to navitgate as a new person to greasspot.
it was only an idea. man I really do not get the opposing side at all on this.
Some sound as if this is very important news to them and why they continue to post on greas spot , so I thought it was a help not anything eles.
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excathedra
thank you, pond
it's hard for me to explain why that wouldn't be easy for me
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simonzelotes
I don't think the original question to start this thread is unreasonable....There's now something like 250,000 posts to sift through...Greasespot isn't in any way written in a newspaper or any other sort of periodical format...It's a discussion forum, haphazardly dotted with a smattering of facts...Most threads that discuss Weirwille's sexcapades are usually inundated with opinions,arguments and a lot of 'heard it from a friend of a friend ' type of testimonials...
I don't think any woman who was one of Wirwille's victims owes anybody anything---here,at gs or anyplace else....That experience is their burden to either share or keep to themselves as they choose...I also don't think anything resembling 'proof' could actually come from this or any other website,20 years after Wierwille is dead and gone...Of course,this isn't a court of law,either...
Could Greasespot as a whole be considered a 'reliable source' of information regarding VPW's adultrous affairs?...I don't know and the answer may not matter to anybody here....I've been here about four years and I can only recollect one first hand account and two or three attempts of VPW's adultry...Of course,I know of others who do not post here,and I consider all the testimonials reliable....Yet,I know of many other exwayfers,non gs members,who ask about VPW's adultry,and I can't honestly say I'd send them here to get the 'inside scoop'...
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Tom
Okay, thanks for that info, Pond. It does satisfy me, & I appreciate you mitigating my concerns on that account in so kindly a manner.
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excathedra
group hug please
i'm sorry that i failed to say i was never offended by eagle starting this thread
and even though a front-page thingy might help people believe the good doctor was a pig, i just can't be the one, even if i never have to read it
i'm debating whether i should tell how many girls i know firsthand were on the motorcoach. of course i would have to think about it
but where's the profit ? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
spiritual abuse of power is not love. god is love
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excathedra
and pond thank you very much for your pm
you too likeaneagle
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Seth R.
Hi Seth here, I have a hypothetical question, not meaning to derail this thread but parallel it.
What if men started coming forward to relate their sexual encounters with other male leadership in TWI? What if they came forward and described similar coersion by a top leader or two who afterwards if the leader wasn't successful in his attempt or felt his little secret would get out, publicly denounced and claimed his victim was more possed then a new boot in hell? What would we think then, surely if a man says it, it must be true?
Now Men, put yourself in the ladies shoes, if you feel as a man you could never ever share something like that on-line or even in private. Do not these women deserve some respect and honor for being brave enough to put in writting as a matter of public record their personnal stories of abuse? Do you not think for one moment these women thought a hundred times before exposing this? Do you not think that they thought a thousand times "Oh, they will never believe me." or do you not think they said to themselves ten thousand times, "what if they call me a liar?". Not in a million years would I lay at the feet of these honorable women even a grain of doubt. They have paid the price of admission to write their stories here, they should be honored and respected, because of the pain they carried for years with no outlet, no forum, no voice. Here they have a voice and a right and I for one will not sit by and have these wonderful ladies by told to prove it, telling them to prove it in my eyes is the same as telling them to shutup, I won't have it!
Seth
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excathedra
holy holy holy thank you dear dear seth
it never really occurred to me to see things how you just put it
damn OF COURSE i would never think of lying about such a thing
i hate arguments and confrontation
wierwille was a PIG SLIME CON MAN trying to heal me and help me sexually WHAT A DAMN JOKE
thank you going to bed now
:)
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pawtucket
For what it's worth.
Threads dealing with the sexual exploits of spiritual leaders are always explosive. Those that were victims have to relive it.
Those that weren't, fall into numerous categories. There are some that understand. There are some that live in denial. There are some that just can't believe someone like VPW or LCM could possibly do it. And there are those that want to understand, but don't quite understand the dynamics of the situation.
All of these folks have something to say. It ranges from unbelievable paralysis to explain; to the dismissive statements by those that choose to remain uneducated and/or ignorant.
All have legitimate statements from their perspective though some insist on not being compassionate. I've never been able to make any "rule" that would include compassion. That becomes an individual decision. I would hope that on threads of this type, you would be compassionate for the scars of others, but I can't make a rule for it. It is possible to have compassion while disagreeing a point.
I've spoken with some that have been victims of these incidents and it is not something that can translate to a post in a thread. If someone doesn't want to share the details, don't try to force it. They have the right to share what they want when they want.
Anyway. Back to your regularly scheduled posts.
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bliss
I recently told an "innie" relative about VPW. She laughed, denied, called it rumor, and then said "I was in the motorcoach, and nothing happend to me!"
SO!!! I run in the park alone sometimes too, and I have never been attacked!
Does this ridiculous method of logic determine its validity?
Not at all.
How do you prove if you were victimized in any way? You have to go immediatley to the POLICE and get "examined". And even then, who's to say you weren't a willing participant? See how evil this whole mentality is?
Don't forget the "innie" mentality either. We all were duped in one way or another. So being conned, groomed, lured, flattered, or seduced, by these leeches, would leave one stupified! You wouldn't be able to peice it all together because your thinking skills were put on hold for so long.
I was never attacked or molested physically by anyone it TWI.
But, I was molested with THEIR EYES and MOUTH.
How do I prove this? Can't.
But I know what I saw, how I felt, and what I heard.
Just the mere fact that it is spoken by more than one woman is enough for me to believe.
The proof is in their hearts.
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Sunnyfla
You got that right sista :)
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krys
Those who demand proof other than what our wonderful women have stated don't want anything more than a blow by blow description of what happened. They want to know what kind of liquor was it that the bus driver served them. They want to know what did his member look like....they want to know how it sounded and how it smelled. They want every sordid dirty detail because they are voyeurs and want those like excathy to paint them a word picture of a triple X pornographic flick!
If and when they get that picture, they'll compare it piece by piece looking for inconsistencies so they can say it never happened. All they want is their own amusement at these women's expense.
Seth made an excellent point.
Now I want to ask you.....suppose your young teenage daughter came to you and told you a certain supposedly close family member or someone else whom you trusted such as a teacher or church official - suppose she came to you and told her she was molested. Would you treat her the same way? If so, IMHO you suck as a parent.
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likeaneagle
And after all is said and done......
this seems to be another one of those posts where everything gets blown out of porportion.
the question was " Are there any documents or lawsuits" placed against VPW.
You guys just couldnt answer a simple question. You read way to much into things.
It seems if the words VPW and sex put together automaticaly sets off alarms and just encourages more strife and anger than needed.
I never asked of the woman who post here to bring forth their experiences and display them again......It wasnt a post I was looking for.
this is not a game to me...I have lost my marriage,friends,death,excrutiating pain that brought me to my knee's many of nights, I dont realy care to share on these boards..I have only shared a minut part of my experiences...
My 2 daughters where humiliated by people and also had their hearts very bruised by the Way.....We are helping each other get past and move on...but, at times it still hits my gut....
A fri**in simple question.......a fri**in simple ?
I do not know of other websites to go to..this is the only one...
I realy dont care to hear anymore of your comments..thank you
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Linda Z
{{{Likeaneagle}}} I think you're wonderful. I don't think you (or Eagle, in starting this thread) had any malicious intent or desire to know all the gorey details.
Krys, I like you and respect your opinions, but I think what you've posted is uncharacteristically unfair of you. I have to wonder if you read the whole thread, or if maybe you just reacting to one or two obnoxious posts.
As Simon said, I also know only one person who came forward on GSC and directly stated that VPW abused her, and I can think of two or three who have said he tried something with them or a friend or family member. I have no doubt whatsoever that they're telling the truth. Not one iota.
I want people to do what THEY need to do when it comes to this subject. In other words, no one is obligated to tell his or her story here and no one ever should feel obligated or be pressured in any way. On the other hand, if telling one's story helps people heal, I think they should tell it as often as they need and want to and not be berated for retelling it. If SOME people don't want to read it, they should skip posts on the topic.
Having said all that, I don't think Eagle's question was out of line. Some people only post here occasionally. That is their right. Some people haven't read every thread. Some people come here as newbies and are trying to sort things out. What would better help them to do that: facts or third- and fourth- and whatever-hand stories that have reached urban legend proportions?
I've thought about this thread for the past couple days now, pondering whether it might be worth a poll. That way people could share their experiences totally anonymously, yet people who want to know could get some answers.
The poll choices would go something like this:
--I was forced to have sex with VPW (i.e., he raped me).
--VPW manipulated me into having sex with him (i.e., he abused his position as a minister and harmed me).
--VPW tried to entice me into having sex with him but didn't succeed.
--I had sex with VPW willingly.
--I was never approached by VPW for sex (and never approached him).
I'd like to know what people think of this idea before I actually post a poll. Maybe just the fact that there's a poll would be hurtful to people who were abused. I don't want that, so that's why I'm asking. If it's a stupid idea, we can forget it. It just seems like a way to get to some facts rather than "somebody told my friend who told her sister who told me." I would love to see people who have firsthand knowledge participate in the poll.
Just a thought.
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