a few sections of my favorite verses on this spiritual perspective...emphasis and quick comments are mine
...plz pardon the ease with which i write of such incredibly sacred and potent "things"
Ezekial 1:22
And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.
clear as crystal, our native spiritual perspective radiates infinitely upwards and outwards from every living being
1 Kings 19:12
And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.
even though the spiritual perspective is and was and will always already be right here and now
...we have to exhaust ourselves searching for it before we realize the simplicity
but silence and stillness are often too terrifying to behold
...almost impossible to experience
Matthew 18:3-4
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
to "enter into the kingdom of heaven" is to leave behind our earthly perspectives (body and soul)
and the only way to rest in this heavenly perspective is to completely surrender to that which is
and find comfort in that sense of I AMness
even though this is perhaps the simplest smallest step we can take
it is also perhaps the most radical shift in perspective possible
(which is why we often think that only special people like Moses can do it)
Romans 1:19-23
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,
being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful;
but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
if you can, try and strip off all ideas that God is an object, or thing
but rather, read this as if God is the ultimate observer of all things
God is that which is invisible, clear, and everywhere
God is that gracious spacious infinity that simply allows us to be
and allows us to see
and so when we can rest in the "eye of God" (as it has been called)
when we can rest in our spacious sense of self
...the glory of God is evident...unavoidable
and to the depth and degree in which we can rest in this spiritual perspective
this glory is simply brilliant
everything simply glows and shines with obvious divinity in non-dual radiance
whether its something oft considered beautiful (such as a flower)
or a slab of broken, cracked and stained pavement in an alley
the "glory of God" is what we can't help but see when we shift our perspective to that of Spirit observing Spirit in everything
Romans 8:16-18
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
just as our body and soul moves from subject to object
when our wide open spirit moves from subject to object
there is found a paradox that simply shatters our perspective into something new
because we find our selves to be that clearing in which body and soul arise
and when that which is clear observes that which is clear...we are free
because "we" are more than body and soul, and we actually witness this to be true for ourselves
in fact all notions of "self" are born all over again
after having been pregnant all these years of our life
and everything we have ever known simply becomes more and more than it ever was
2 Corinthians 3:17-18
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
this is why this Spiritual perspective, as i have barely begun to describe it, is the ground of all being
when we rest in it, we are no longer trapped in our body and soul
and so we are able to openly observe them both
and being able to observe them, we are able to allow them to change, change, change
this capacity to truly relax as the space our body and soul dwells in
allows the tangled knots of our existence to finish the work they have to do
because there is pain and suffering in change
but when we mistakenly think we are merely our soul and body
this suffering is unbearable, and we resist
to change our soul is to die
and we dont want to die
which is why we need to change our sense of who we are
in order to help our soul die and be reborn
thus, AS SPIRIT, we are more free to change than ever before
from glory to glory, our perspective shifts again and again
and it doesn't bother us any more
death is no longer an enemy, but a beloved friend that frees us
simply because we have found and settled into that sense of self which existed prior to death
...and will exist long after...forever and ever, amen (as they used to say)
Todd, I am speechless. I read your initial post last night but was too exhausted to take it in. I re-read it again today and this
"I AM the way...the kid said
...man o man how we have misunderstood who he was talking about"
clicked perfectly. But again, I was too distracted to really take it in. I just read your second post, wow! I wish I had more time to go back through it again tonight, but fatigue is taking over. I am torn right now, because as you know, I have been on a bit of a quest of late. However, my physical committments are also in need of a great deal of my time right now. We are really pushing to increase enrollment at the boys' school and we are nearing the finish line of what has been a very political property purchase for the school as well. So my time is limited and divided. :(
However, I hope you will stick with this thread a bit and I pray to find a couple of hours over the next day or two to come back and really take it in some more and maybe add a thought or two.
p.s. Next month CNN will be airing an interview with the superintendent of our school! How cool is that!!! Credit for that deal goes to another board member and our vice-principal, I am still floored that they managed to make that happen. :)
Here I Roy William Perry III known as year2027 to some sat here to reach up to God for word of knowledge or understanding of knowledge that has came from the spirit of God by the spirit of Christ to our inner, outer spirit of our bodies and souls.
When I was a child I found that by body had fingers that could reach for things and even throw them into the air. This was the beginning of me learning the body that was growing all around me my body as I knew it then.
Then after a short time my inner body seem to want something so I cry out loud until I came to a understanding that I had to cry with breaks to breath and this is when I begin to see I had a breath life some call soul life.
My mother came and feed me and I forgot why I cry out in the first place and I went back to learn my body and all that I could do with it.
Over the years I learn to use my body for many things some good and some not so good but I was only limit in touch with my body.
Over the years I learn many things about my breath life how to think by five senses and when my body had basic needs like water, rest, and many other things.
But after I got older I learn about the space all around me from the very inside of each of the cells of my body and the cells of the oxygen I breath in to the very end of all things whatever that may be.
Then after getting in touch with this spirit life I had I took a new look at my body and soul and begin to get a closer relationship with both while putting both under the wise guild lines of my spirit.
Now I am growing in spiritual wisdom and spiritual power every day I get closer to the beginning of what is new the birth of being a new being one like the most high God which Christ is the image of.
I will end here my dear friends, thank you, with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy.
A common Biblical translation of an Aramaic idiom. In the original language, it translates in an interlinear, direct fashion as: "I I" (Aramaic uses a double reference to self when being emphatic about an action verb; e.g., "I-baptize-I you with water..." from Matthew 3:11 of the Aramaic Pe....ta; however "I I" -- with everything and nothing between the "I"s -- is what is translated into English as "I am", with accompanying spiritual meaning; the first occurrence of "I I" in the New Testament is in Matthew 14:27 of the Pe....ta).
The first person singular present tense form of the main copular verb in English (to be)
Some scholars believe it is the most meaningful English translation of Yahweh in Hebrew ('YHVH', יהוה), but this interpretation is disputed
I thought some of THIS article was rather fitting with the thread. The article is quite long, so I will quote the pertinent section.
The article is called "The Practical Implication of Infinity" and was written by Jonathan Sacks
"For the mystic, what counts as reality is the inherent presence of the Infinite behind all the scattered phenomena of the world as we see it. But how can we have a conception of this invisible presence which gives life to everything and yet can never be seen? Yet there is an analogy: the relation of the human soul to the body . . . . What is this "self" or soul, the "I" that we refer to when we talk in the first person?
We know it is not the body: our bodies change constantly, yet we remain the same person. It is not even our personality; that too may change. Though I may act and feel differently than I once did, I have not ceased to be me. To this self we give the name of "soul." It is the most mysterious of all phenomena. . . . .
The soul may hide its face even from its possessor. From Freud we learned to call this phenomenon the unconscious. . . . . .But this was known long ago to the Jewish mystics. It is just that they took a somewhat different view of what it was like: it was a G-dly soul. . . .The mystical task is to take a journey into the interior of the self, and rescue that love from its hiddenness.
Man, at his most spiritual level, does more than relate to G-d: he contains part of the reality of G-d."
I AM
As the author later points out, this also gives a significantly deeper meaning to "you shall love your neighbor as yourself"? Why? Because if we all contain a part of God, and if God is not many beings, but one - then your neighbor is yourself.
Abi, you have reminded me of how words like "spirit" and "soul" are really just interchangable labels
and the way they are used really is wild and varied, from person to person and tradition to tradition
and as you have pointed out, some traditions have come to use "soul" for what i have called "spirit" in this thread
and there are at least a dozen ways "spirit" is used and has been used throughout history
(with hundreds of correlates in other languages)
and sometimes the meanings are in direct opposition of each other
...and there are perhaps at least twice as many ways "soul" is used
and this linguistic condition was already "bad," and has only gotten "worse" with post-modernity, it seems
but i would think that as long the listeners/readers are are clear about the intent behind the word being used
there should be no confusion
because i'm sure it is ok with God,
that we can call something whatever we want or need,
as long as everyone knows what we are talking about
and sometimes, the regular ole' common vernacular language becomes such an impatient inter-ethnic re-hashed over-bashed global puddle of re-re-re-regurgitated kaleidoscopic jargon and inuendo....that we almost need to invent new words that have never been used before in order to speak with any sort of meaning at all
along these lines...in working with the dying
(which, in a wider sense...we are all on that road, to some degree)
being right is not important as simply listening deeply to what is trying to be MEANT,
and it's amazing how everyone has (or is searching for) a word for that which is simply ineffable
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
so who is greater?
1 John 5
12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
this classic notion of our triune nature is not unique to twi, of course...nor is it unique to Christianity
...and as with all things, there always seems room for more unfolding and unpacking
The classic notion of our triune nature is also not part of Hebrew thinking. Over in the Holy Spirit thread, I demonstrated that according to the Hebrew Scriptures (the Old Testament) man is a living being, or soul, consisting of a body that is animated by the "breath of life."
Actually, you are mistaken, Mark. Although in Judaism it is not referred to as triune, it is there. Man has body and soul. Then there is Shekina, which Sir mentioned in your other thread. Shekina is "in dwelling" or "dwelling within" and it is there, in the OT. It is also in the Midrash (which is where you will find many of the oral traditions and rabbinical arguments).
I don't have a lot of time to "play" during the week, but I will try to get back to this over the weekend. I know I've covered a lot of this in threads that are long burried now.
and Mark, for what it's worth, i really dont think one can demonstrate an understanding of Hebrew scripture with word studies and such.
now, I wouldnt dismiss them, either...not at all...i love using my septuagint and whatnot...and yeah, there is A LOT in the OT,
but there is also far too much outside of scripture that plays a role in interpretation. Experience and practice, for starters.
and too...like Christianity (and other religions)...Jewish thought is way too rich and diverse to be reduced in a way that applies to all.
i have met and read too many many wise and brilliant rabbis to say otherwise.
I don't claim to understand everything that is in the Scriptures. But since PFAL claimed to derive its understanding from the Bible, I wanted to demonstrate that the definitions of these terms that we were taught do not match the definitions used in the Bible.
Also, I realize there were and are other groups of Jews who have different beliefs, but in the Holy Spirit thread I am only dealing with that which is presented in the Hebrew Scriptures, aka the Old Testament. (I will later be dealing with the New Testament as well.)
The authority of other sources which may contradict the Bible comes down to a matter of who or what do you trust. Since I know several of you don't consider the Bible authoritative, you can see how getting into that debate would be fruitless.
A common Biblical translation of an Aramaic idiom. In the original language, it translates in an interlinear, direct fashion as: "I I" (Aramaic uses a double reference to self when being emphatic about an action verb; e.g., "I-baptize-I you with water..." from Matthew 3:11 of the Aramaic Pe....ta; however "I I" -- with everything and nothing between the "I"s -- is what is translated into English as "I am", with accompanying spiritual meaning; the first occurrence of "I I" in the New Testament is in Matthew 14:27 of the Pe....ta). The first person singular present tense form of the main copular verb in English (to be)
Some scholars believe it is the most meaningful English translation of Yahweh in Hebrew ('YHVH', יהוה), but this interpretation is disputed
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sirguessalot
a few sections of my favorite verses on this spiritual perspective...emphasis and quick comments are mine
...plz pardon the ease with which i write of such incredibly sacred and potent "things"
Ezekial 1:22
And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.
clear as crystal, our native spiritual perspective radiates infinitely upwards and outwards from every living being
1 Kings 19:12
And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.
even though the spiritual perspective is and was and will always already be right here and now
...we have to exhaust ourselves searching for it before we realize the simplicity
but silence and stillness are often too terrifying to behold
...almost impossible to experience
Matthew 18:3-4
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
to "enter into the kingdom of heaven" is to leave behind our earthly perspectives (body and soul)
and the only way to rest in this heavenly perspective is to completely surrender to that which is
and find comfort in that sense of I AMness
even though this is perhaps the simplest smallest step we can take
it is also perhaps the most radical shift in perspective possible
(which is why we often think that only special people like Moses can do it)
Romans 1:19-23
Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen,
being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful;
but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
if you can, try and strip off all ideas that God is an object, or thing
but rather, read this as if God is the ultimate observer of all things
God is that which is invisible, clear, and everywhere
God is that gracious spacious infinity that simply allows us to be
and allows us to see
and so when we can rest in the "eye of God" (as it has been called)
when we can rest in our spacious sense of self
...the glory of God is evident...unavoidable
and to the depth and degree in which we can rest in this spiritual perspective
this glory is simply brilliant
everything simply glows and shines with obvious divinity in non-dual radiance
whether its something oft considered beautiful (such as a flower)
or a slab of broken, cracked and stained pavement in an alley
or a carcass rotting in the sun
...the glory of God is already always there
Shekinhah it has been called in Jewish tradition
the "glory of God" is what we can't help but see when we shift our perspective to that of Spirit observing Spirit in everything
Romans 8:16-18
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
just as our body and soul moves from subject to object
when our wide open spirit moves from subject to object
there is found a paradox that simply shatters our perspective into something new
because we find our selves to be that clearing in which body and soul arise
and when that which is clear observes that which is clear...we are free
because "we" are more than body and soul, and we actually witness this to be true for ourselves
in fact all notions of "self" are born all over again
after having been pregnant all these years of our life
and everything we have ever known simply becomes more and more than it ever was
2 Corinthians 3:17-18
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
this is why this Spiritual perspective, as i have barely begun to describe it, is the ground of all being
when we rest in it, we are no longer trapped in our body and soul
and so we are able to openly observe them both
and being able to observe them, we are able to allow them to change, change, change
this capacity to truly relax as the space our body and soul dwells in
allows the tangled knots of our existence to finish the work they have to do
because there is pain and suffering in change
but when we mistakenly think we are merely our soul and body
this suffering is unbearable, and we resist
to change our soul is to die
and we dont want to die
which is why we need to change our sense of who we are
in order to help our soul die and be reborn
thus, AS SPIRIT, we are more free to change than ever before
from glory to glory, our perspective shifts again and again
and it doesn't bother us any more
death is no longer an enemy, but a beloved friend that frees us
simply because we have found and settled into that sense of self which existed prior to death
...and will exist long after...forever and ever, amen (as they used to say)
...
next...some stuff from 1 Corinthians 15
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dancing
well..by god i'll respond....
one can see when looking at the great spiritual vastness of the universe
yet why are we to limit the spirit that is beyond it and within
within our vast universe of the mind
the spirit is so unknown, barely seen
and a fine offering it is indeed
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dancing
3Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;
4He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself.
5After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded.
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Abigail
Todd, I am speechless. I read your initial post last night but was too exhausted to take it in. I re-read it again today and this
"I AM the way...the kid said
...man o man how we have misunderstood who he was talking about"
clicked perfectly. But again, I was too distracted to really take it in. I just read your second post, wow! I wish I had more time to go back through it again tonight, but fatigue is taking over. I am torn right now, because as you know, I have been on a bit of a quest of late. However, my physical committments are also in need of a great deal of my time right now. We are really pushing to increase enrollment at the boys' school and we are nearing the finish line of what has been a very political property purchase for the school as well. So my time is limited and divided. :(
However, I hope you will stick with this thread a bit and I pray to find a couple of hours over the next day or two to come back and really take it in some more and maybe add a thought or two.
p.s. Next month CNN will be airing an interview with the superintendent of our school! How cool is that!!! Credit for that deal goes to another board member and our vice-principal, I am still floored that they managed to make that happen. :)
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sirguessalot
thanks for chiming in, you guys
and i hear ya abi
i am presently up to my ears in a lot of different things going on, too
in fact, i'm somewhat surprised i started this thread
and now thinking i may not get to those other verses any time soon
<_<
i guess now would be a good time to sit back as Spirit and witness the pressures roiling around within the ole' body and soul...hehe
...so as not to confuse them for my self
btw...yeah, dancing...clothing says a lot
"...to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded" says a lot
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year2027
God first
wrote 07-27-2006
Here I Roy William Perry III known as year2027 to some sat here to reach up to God for word of knowledge or understanding of knowledge that has came from the spirit of God by the spirit of Christ to our inner, outer spirit of our bodies and souls.
When I was a child I found that by body had fingers that could reach for things and even throw them into the air. This was the beginning of me learning the body that was growing all around me my body as I knew it then.
Then after a short time my inner body seem to want something so I cry out loud until I came to a understanding that I had to cry with breaks to breath and this is when I begin to see I had a breath life some call soul life.
My mother came and feed me and I forgot why I cry out in the first place and I went back to learn my body and all that I could do with it.
Over the years I learn to use my body for many things some good and some not so good but I was only limit in touch with my body.
Over the years I learn many things about my breath life how to think by five senses and when my body had basic needs like water, rest, and many other things.
But after I got older I learn about the space all around me from the very inside of each of the cells of my body and the cells of the oxygen I breath in to the very end of all things whatever that may be.
Then after getting in touch with this spirit life I had I took a new look at my body and soul and begin to get a closer relationship with both while putting both under the wise guild lines of my spirit.
Now I am growing in spiritual wisdom and spiritual power every day I get closer to the beginning of what is new the birth of being a new being one like the most high God which Christ is the image of.
I will end here my dear friends, thank you, with love and a holy kiss blowing your way Roy.
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dancing
I am
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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I am can refer to:
A common Biblical translation of an Aramaic idiom. In the original language, it translates in an interlinear, direct fashion as: "I I" (Aramaic uses a double reference to self when being emphatic about an action verb; e.g., "I-baptize-I you with water..." from Matthew 3:11 of the Aramaic Pe....ta; however "I I" -- with everything and nothing between the "I"s -- is what is translated into English as "I am", with accompanying spiritual meaning; the first occurrence of "I I" in the New Testament is in Matthew 14:27 of the Pe....ta).
The first person singular present tense form of the main copular verb in English (to be)
Some scholars believe it is the most meaningful English translation of Yahweh in Hebrew ('YHVH', יהוה), but this interpretation is disputed
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sprawled out
sirguessalot:
just wondering...do you learn this stuff from someone(s) somewhere, or do you just think it all up?
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sirguessalot
i learn from a lot of someones, sprawled
as well as a lot of making stuff up as i go along
...a mixed cocktail, ya know
and beyond words, really
and with such relatively little time to explain
when it comes to words, often times all i can do is throw things at things
so i am somewhat of a beggar with a bowl, here
i do hope you will please permit me to NOT provide you with an answer to one of those impossible kinds of "either/or" questions
...by way of this tad ramble
cuz i think there comes a point when one realizes that the master teacher is already always everywhere
all you have to do is shut up and get out of the way...completely
simultaneously doubting and trusting everything
making a habit of shining light into shadows
and daring to look at that which is taboo
in a strange sense...the darkness is your greatest and most direct guide through the darkness
the pain is your only way through the suffering
ignorance is the only way through ignorance
and our Spirit (as this clearing) is that which illuminates
YOU ARE already the menorah of awareness
WE ARE already the temple of spiritual understanding
IF...we can find a way to rest in mutual clarity and nakedness
our spirit is that which is most clear and free, and thus, provides clarity
and if we can rest as spirit...we will unflinchingly look at any book, any belief
and we can observe (within) the structures of our own faith and beliefs as an ongoing process of change
and so...to tell ya the truth...what keeps me from listing my sources and inspirations
is that it would be like writing a long autobiography of many people and books
and its an even harder story to tell in an environment that is still reeling from a lot of pain from religious abuse
and a lot of competing fears regarding both scientific language and religious language and other things
so as that beggar...i sit here begging for a spare change of simple reflections
in a language that is a bit more direct and archetypically neutral
...i dunno
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dancing
To think that there may be an actual living epistle of the heart,
expanding in it's depth and reach and spiritual words.
Tied together in unity with us all yet as individual as we each are.
"I AM" is that one person or all or both?
To speak without an intent to ensnare but to put on the table,
that which we can all chew on together, for the writer is hearing also.
Not some ego type I have the answers, but that you all have the answers.
And they just keep coming like the Lord.
And not to overfill the bottle lest it burst,
but to drop a few sips of new wine out of a new bottle.
Who were these people that wrote the bible?
Surely the same questions were asked of them.
For their writings are still widely misunderstood and kept in an old bottle.
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Abigail
I thought some of THIS article was rather fitting with the thread. The article is quite long, so I will quote the pertinent section.
The article is called "The Practical Implication of Infinity" and was written by Jonathan Sacks
"For the mystic, what counts as reality is the inherent presence of the Infinite behind all the scattered phenomena of the world as we see it. But how can we have a conception of this invisible presence which gives life to everything and yet can never be seen? Yet there is an analogy: the relation of the human soul to the body . . . . What is this "self" or soul, the "I" that we refer to when we talk in the first person?
We know it is not the body: our bodies change constantly, yet we remain the same person. It is not even our personality; that too may change. Though I may act and feel differently than I once did, I have not ceased to be me. To this self we give the name of "soul." It is the most mysterious of all phenomena. . . . .
The soul may hide its face even from its possessor. From Freud we learned to call this phenomenon the unconscious. . . . . .But this was known long ago to the Jewish mystics. It is just that they took a somewhat different view of what it was like: it was a G-dly soul. . . .The mystical task is to take a journey into the interior of the self, and rescue that love from its hiddenness.
Man, at his most spiritual level, does more than relate to G-d: he contains part of the reality of G-d."
I AM
As the author later points out, this also gives a significantly deeper meaning to "you shall love your neighbor as yourself"? Why? Because if we all contain a part of God, and if God is not many beings, but one - then your neighbor is yourself.
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sirguessalot
hm..yeah
a few thoughts...
Abi, you have reminded me of how words like "spirit" and "soul" are really just interchangable labels
and the way they are used really is wild and varied, from person to person and tradition to tradition
and as you have pointed out, some traditions have come to use "soul" for what i have called "spirit" in this thread
and there are at least a dozen ways "spirit" is used and has been used throughout history
(with hundreds of correlates in other languages)
and sometimes the meanings are in direct opposition of each other
...and there are perhaps at least twice as many ways "soul" is used
and this linguistic condition was already "bad," and has only gotten "worse" with post-modernity, it seems
but i would think that as long the listeners/readers are are clear about the intent behind the word being used
there should be no confusion
because i'm sure it is ok with God,
that we can call something whatever we want or need,
as long as everyone knows what we are talking about
and sometimes, the regular ole' common vernacular language becomes such an impatient inter-ethnic re-hashed over-bashed global puddle of re-re-re-regurgitated kaleidoscopic jargon and inuendo....that we almost need to invent new words that have never been used before in order to speak with any sort of meaning at all
along these lines...in working with the dying
(which, in a wider sense...we are all on that road, to some degree)
being right is not important as simply listening deeply to what is trying to be MEANT,
and it's amazing how everyone has (or is searching for) a word for that which is simply ineffable
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dancing
another day another dollar or somethin....
finally found the right shoes for work at walmart and spent that dollar..lol..
what i was looking for was never on the aisle it had been before
the next aisle had em, crazy people reorganizing all that!!
i was used to my aisle for my shoes
so i changed...again....
and faith met faith or eye met shoe and bingo we walked off together!!!
actually it was a different shoe then the ones i was used to
but it had all the markings of the great comfort i was looking for and had found before
wonder about soul meeting soul or spirit meeting spirit
the same looking for each other
though the shoe wasn't looking for me...lol...uh two shoes..
remove myself completely out and see what's in me
hmmmm...when the mind is used to it's self, easy to sleep thru it
some get fed up with the answers that aren't quite the walk that the talk says
FEAR of CHANGE!!!!!! FEAR of LOOSING something....
well if you really got it you can't loose it
change change change....but also rest
and that change brings with it all that i am because i am
and we are
btw i didn't get any change at walmart, i charged it :)
but my feet will be happy!
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dancing
.
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dancing
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dancing
i am the way...
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
so who is greater?
1 John 5
12He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
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sirguessalot
bumping a 2 year old thread for possibilities of further reflection...
...I I find the topic seems to relate to cman's thread on Sacrifice
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Mark Clarke
The classic notion of our triune nature is also not part of Hebrew thinking. Over in the Holy Spirit thread, I demonstrated that according to the Hebrew Scriptures (the Old Testament) man is a living being, or soul, consisting of a body that is animated by the "breath of life."
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Abigail
Actually, you are mistaken, Mark. Although in Judaism it is not referred to as triune, it is there. Man has body and soul. Then there is Shekina, which Sir mentioned in your other thread. Shekina is "in dwelling" or "dwelling within" and it is there, in the OT. It is also in the Midrash (which is where you will find many of the oral traditions and rabbinical arguments).
I don't have a lot of time to "play" during the week, but I will try to get back to this over the weekend. I know I've covered a lot of this in threads that are long burried now.
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sirguessalot
Sounds wonderful, Abi. i do hope you are able to "play" a bit this weekend.
Please feel free to copy and paste whatever you wish to this thread, so as not to disrupt the other one.
And yeah...there are some gems in those long buried threads.
and Mark, for what it's worth, i really dont think one can demonstrate an understanding of Hebrew scripture with word studies and such.
now, I wouldnt dismiss them, either...not at all...i love using my septuagint and whatnot...and yeah, there is A LOT in the OT,
but there is also far too much outside of scripture that plays a role in interpretation. Experience and practice, for starters.
and too...like Christianity (and other religions)...Jewish thought is way too rich and diverse to be reduced in a way that applies to all.
i have met and read too many many wise and brilliant rabbis to say otherwise.
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Mark Clarke
Please refer to the Holy Spirit thread to see how the Hebrew Scriptures define those terms.
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Mark Clarke
I don't claim to understand everything that is in the Scriptures. But since PFAL claimed to derive its understanding from the Bible, I wanted to demonstrate that the definitions of these terms that we were taught do not match the definitions used in the Bible.
Also, I realize there were and are other groups of Jews who have different beliefs, but in the Holy Spirit thread I am only dealing with that which is presented in the Hebrew Scriptures, aka the Old Testament. (I will later be dealing with the New Testament as well.)
The authority of other sources which may contradict the Bible comes down to a matter of who or what do you trust. Since I know several of you don't consider the Bible authoritative, you can see how getting into that debate would be fruitless.
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sirguessalot
Mark...while i cant bring my self to agree with most anything you wrote in your last two posts,
i can at least agree that debate would be mostly fruitless...though not for the same reason you stated.
so i promise not to disturb your word study
peace
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sirguessalot
this has my attention
comments to follow
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