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WordWolf

Hippies, Conspiracy theorists, and greedy pervs.

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This spun off the 1976 discussion, since I didn't want to derail the memories.

It looks like some policies were the results of some things hippies were

already doing in the late 60s/ early 70s.

It looks like some policies were the results of some ideas conspiracy theorists

were putting forth.

It looks like some policies were just because they saved money or allowed

pervs to satisfy their sexual jollies in any of a number of ways.

So, a thread to discuss them all.

What practices existed,

and what were the most likely reasons FOR those practices?

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Ok, for those of us who were not flower children,

and those of us who could use a refresher,

1967-1968 seems to have been a big year for the hippie movement-

at least for the public news reports of them.

It's also when vpw acted on information.

I pulled this from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie

"Time and history revisionists have obscured the true origins and influence of the hippies, whose roots stretch back 100 years to Europe. Around the turn of the century (1890s), there was an active movement in Europe to return to the natural life away from the polluted, crowded cities. This movement was inspired by authors like Friedrich Nietzsche, Goethe, Hermann Hesse (Siddhartha), and Eduard Baltzer, who wrote about how modern man’s material yearnings were taking us away from our balance with nature and leading to spiritual and physical diseases. Thousands of young Germans turned their backs on modern society and sought a return to nature and the pagan spiritual life of their ancestors. They embraced a variety of radical lifestyles including vegetarianism, fasting, raw food diets, nudism, organic farming, communal living, sun and nature worship, etc. These ideas were introduced into the US over several decades as one by one these Germans settled in various places around the country,"

"With their emphasis on Free Love, hippies promoted many of the same counterculture beliefs that found early expresssion in the Beat Generation. Both Beats and Hippies advocated for legal and societal acceptance of most forms of consensual sexual expression outside the traditional bounds of marriage and procreation, with the notable exception of sex with children."

"In fact, hippie domestic life seemed largely to default to traditional gender roles, with women doing most of the work -- cooking, cleaning, child care, etc. -- while the men engaged in creative, artistic pursuits. Images of women in hippie art abound, generally as innocents, goddesses or muses. Most hippie entrepreneurs, philosophers, commune founders and leaders, writers and artists were men."

"At their inception, the back to the land movement, cooperative business enterprises, alternative energy, free press movement, and organic farming were all politically motivated hippie enterprises."

"Hippies tended to travel light and were able to pick up and go to wherever the action was at any given time, whether that was a "love-in" on Mount Tamalpais near San Francisco, a demonstration against the Vietnam War in Berkeley, one of Ken Kesey's "Acid Tests" or just because the "vibe" wasn't right and a change of scene was desired. Pre-planning was eschewed and most were happy to put a few clothes in a backpack, stick out their thumbs and hitchhike to just about anywhere. Hippies seldom worried about whether or not they had money, hotel reservations or any of the standard accoutrements of travel. Because most hippie households welcomed overnight guests on an impromptu basis, the reciprocal nature of the lifestyle permitted enormous freedom of movement. People generally co-operated to meet each other's needs in ways that became less common after 1971. This way of life is still seen today among some Rainbow Family participants."

From the "characteristics" section, I found this...

"# Free love, including open relationships and most consensual forms of sexual expression, except sex with children. Traditional legal constructs and religious teachings that prohibited non-procreative sex outside the bounds of marriage were widely flouted--premarital sex, extramarital sex, bisexuality and homosexuality. (See also: Sexual revolution).

# Communal living

# A fondness for nudity"

Now then,

on their "free love" page, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_love ),

I found this....

"While the phrase "free love" is often associated with promiscuity in the popular imagination, especially in reference to the counterculture of the 1960s and 1970s, historically the free love movement has not advocated multiple sexual partners. Rather, it has argued that love relations which are freely entered into should not be regulated by law. Thus, free love practice may include long-term monogamous relationships or even celibacy, but would not include institutional forms of polygamy such as a king and his concubines."

Interesting how vpw skipped this stage.

Perhaps he was just a victim of his times...

Then again,

"The history of free love is entwined with the history of feminism."

"Some feminists of the late 20th century would interpret the free love ethic of the 1960s and 1970s as a manipulative strategy against a women's ability to say no to sex."

"Free love became a prominent phrase used by and about the new social movements and counterculture of the 1960s and 1970s, typified by the Summer of Love in 1967 and the slogan "make love not war". Unrestrained sexuality became a new norm in some of these youth movements, leading certain feminists to critique the 60s/70s "free love" as a way for men to pressure women into sex; women who said "no" could be characterized as prudish and uptight."

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Now then,

the conspiracy theories vpw got from the Liberty Lobby

and from the John Birch Society.

Here's from the page on the LL, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Lobby

"While Liberty Lobby was founded as a conservative political organization, Willis Carto was known to hold strongly anti-Semitic views, and to be a devotee of the writings of Francis Parker Yockey, who was one of a handful of esoteric post-WWII writers who revered Adolf Hitler. Yockey, writing under the pseudonym of Ulick Varange, wrote a book entitled Imperium, which Willis Carto adopted as his own guiding ideology.

Many critics, including disgruntled former Carto associates as well as the Anti-Defamation League, have noted that Willis Carto, more than anybody else, was responsible for keeping organized anti-Semitism alive as a viable political movement during the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s, when it was otherwise completely discredited."

"Liberty Lobby attempted to promote a public image of being a conservative anti-Communist group, along the lines of the John Birch Society, but while the John Birch Society rejected white supremacy and anti-Semitism, Liberty Lobby promoted them. Francis Parker Yockey's Imperium was republished by Willis Carto's Noontide Press, which also published a number of other books and pamphlets promoting a racialist and white supremacist world view, and Liberty Lobby in turn sold and promoted these books."

"In 1975, Liberty Lobby began publishing a weekly newspaper called The Spotlight, which ran news and opinion articles with a very populist and anti-establishment slant on a variety of subjects, but gave little indication of being extreme-right or neo-Nazi. However, The Spotlight, critics charged, was intended as a subtle recruiting tool for the extreme right, using populist-sounding articles to attract people from all points on the political spectrum including liberals, moderates, and conservatives, and special-interest articles to attract people interested in such subjects as alternative medicine, while the newspaper subtly incorporated anti-Semitic and white racialist undertones in its articles, and carried advertisements in the classified section for openly neo-Nazi groups and books. The Spotlight for a while became the most widely-read periodical on the right in the United States, with circulation peaking around 200,000 in the early 1980s. While circulation experienced a steady drop after that, it continued to be published until Liberty Lobby's demise in 2001."

And here's the John Birch Society, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Birch_Society ...

"The JBS claims that collectivist conspiracies throughout the world have significantly shaped history, and it seeks to expose and eliminate their claimed control in government in the modern era. This degree of conspiracism has isolated the Society from many other conservative groups."

" "According to Welch," writes Political Research Associates in its analysis of the Birchers, "both the US and Soviet governments are controlled by the same furtive conspiratorial cabal of internationalists, greedy bankers, and corrupt politicians. If left unexposed, the traitors inside the US government would betray the country's sovereignty to the United Nations for a collectivist New World Order managed by a 'one-world socialist government.' The Birch Society incorporated many themes from pre-WWII rightist groups opposed to the New Deal, and had its base in the business nationalist sector…"

Welch saw "collectivism" as the main threat to western civilization, and liberals as "secret communist traitors" who provide the cover for the gradual process of collectivism, with the ultimate goal of replacing the nations of western civilization with one-world socialist government. "There are many stages of welfarism, socialism, and collectivism in general," he wrote, "but communism is the ultimate state of them all, and they all lead inevitably in that direction." "

"Much of the Society's early conspiracism, according to Political Research Associates, "reflects an ultraconservative business nationalist critique of business internationalists networked through groups such as the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR). The CFR is viewed through a conspiracist lens as puppets of the Rockefeller family in a 1952 book by Joe McCarthy fan Emanuel M. Josephson, Rockefeller, 'Internationalist': The Man Who Misrules the World. In 1962 Dan Smoot's The Invisible Government added several other policy groups to the list of conspirators, including the Committee for Economic Development, the Advertising Council, the Atlantic Council (formerly the Atlantic Union Committee), the Business Advisory Council, and the Trilateral Commission. Smoot had worked at FBI headquarters in Washington, DC before leaving to establish an anticommunist newsletter, the Dan Smoot Report. The shift from countersubversion on behalf of the FBI to countersubversion in the private sector was an easy one. The basic thesis was the same. In Smoot's concluding chapter, he wrote, 'Somewhere at the top of the pyramid in the invisible government are a few sinister people who know exactly what they are doing: They want America to become part of a worldwide socialist dictatorship, under the control of the Kremlin.'" Birchers elaborated on an earlier Illuminati/Freemason conspiracy theory, imagining "an unbroken ideologically driven conspiracy linking the Illuminati, the French Revolution, the rise of Marxism and Communism, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the United Nations". Unlike most advocates of the Illuminati-Freemason conspiracy theory, however, the Birch Society strenuously denies harboring any anti-Semitic ideation, and indeed claims many Jews among its membership. At one point a key leader in the JBS, Revilo P. Oliver, resigend after a dispute over his veering off into antisemitic conspiracy theories in public. "

" In October 1964, the Idaho Statesman newspaper expressed concern about what it called an "ominous" increase in JBS-led "ultra-right" radio and television broadcasts, which it said then numbered 7,000 weekly and cost an estimated $10 million annually. "By virtue of saturation tactics used, radical, reactionary propaganda is producing an impact even on large numbers of people who, themselves, are in no sense extremists or sympathetic to extremist views," declared a Statesman editorial. "When day after day they hear distortions of fact and sinister charges against persons or groups, often emanating from organizations with conspicuously respectable sounding names, it is no wonder that the result is: Confusion on some important public issues; stimulation of latent prejudices; creation of suspicion, fear and mistrust in relation not only to their representatives in government, but even in relation to their neighbors.” "

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"This movement was inspired by authors like Friedrich Nietzsche, Goethe, Hermann Hesse (Siddhartha), and Eduard Baltzer, who wrote about how modern man’s material yearnings were taking us away from our balance with nature and leading to spiritual and physical diseases. Thousands of young Germans turned their backs on modern society and sought a return to nature and the pagan spiritual life of their ancestors.

"With their emphasis on Free Love, hippies promoted many of the same counterculture beliefs that found early expresssion in the Beat Generation. Both Beats and Hippies advocated for legal and societal acceptance of most forms of consensual sexual expression outside the traditional bounds of marriage and procreation, with the notable exception of sex with children."

"In fact, hippie domestic life seemed largely to default to traditional gender roles, with women doing most of the work -- cooking, cleaning, child care, etc. -- while the men engaged in creative, artistic pursuits. "

From the "characteristics" section, I found this...

"# Free love, including open relationships and most consensual forms of sexual expression, except sex with children. Traditional legal constructs and religious teachings that prohibited non-procreative sex outside the bounds of marriage were widely flouted--premarital sex, extramarital sex, bisexuality and homosexuality. (See also: Sexual revolution).

# Communal living

# A fondness for nudity"

"Some feminists of the late 20th century would interpret the free love ethic of the 1960s and 1970s as a manipulative strategy against a women's ability to say no to sex."

"Unrestrained sexuality became a new norm in some of these youth movements, leading certain feminists to critique the 60s/70s "free love" as a way for men to pressure women into sex; women who said "no" could be characterized as prudish and uptight."

===========

Uncle Harry slipping in some German nationalism in his dialogue,

pg-79 of TW:LiL

"

VP always likes things done right, done the way they should be done.

That's why at the Sunday night service everything is checked right up to

snuff. See? Perfect. But that's the way we were brought up years ago.

Our German people were not afraid of work. I guess that stays with you."

Rhoda W, pg-91, TW:LiL

The growth among the young people began after

Dr. Wierwille made his trip to California the winter of 1967-68.

Then they began to come out here. First Steve and Sandi Heefner,

then more and more others.

Things really started speeding up after that. The young people were

mostly hippies-people with long hair. They really took to the

ministry because it made things fit for them."

vpw himself, pg-211, about Dr E.E. Higgins...

""She taught me the great respect and love I have for the

human body-the tenderness of it. She loved the body, like I love

the Word of God. She just stood in awe of how magnificently it was

put together. She rid me of my hang-ups, that false stuff, and

taught me the beauty of the human body. We used to talk about the

human body-where the life was located.""

vpw, pg-231,

on the "Christian hippies" at the House of Acts...

"I went with him. We got there. The women were in the

kitchen: Sandi Heefner, Judy Doop and Ted's wife. It was interesting

because they were mixing up stuff-a big green salad in a bowl,

bread, doing a whole trip.

I don't know how many we had around the table- maybe 16 -and then the

men came home, Steve Heefner and Jimmy Doop. They had just spent

the day witnessing in Haight-Ashbury.

We all had supper together.

The women cleaned the table and all the men yakked.

And finally we got around to the Word. The discussion centered around the Holy Spirit. "

""And I liked especially the tenderness among them. You see,

they themselves had previously been on sex and dope, so they didn't

find fault with everything all the time. They'd hug and kiss each

other and that I liked. They were always affectionate. I saw a lot

that I liked there."

JD, about something that vpw said back IN 1967-1968....

"As we relaxed and had a second drink, he asked Judy and me to describe

what it was like to attend an orgy. We were taken back by the question

and embarassed by it, because even though it was part of our testimony

in our deliverance from sin to God's righteousness, no one had ever

asked us to describe what it was like to go to an orgy.

We found his curiousity shocking.

But we gave him a brief description which is really all we could give him

since our encounter with an orgy had been so brief.

We had attended one orgy sponsored by the San Francisco

Sexual Freedom League, but we were so overwhelmed by the

spectacle that we had left after twenty minutes.

'You know that's all available," V.P. said.

'God put it in I Corinthians 7:1 which He said

"It is good for a man not to touch a woman."

If it wasn't available to have sex outside the marriage

God would have said "best" instead of "good".

I could not believe what I was hearing.

I responded with 'I just thank God that He pulled

our souls out of that pit of debauchery.'

When Judy and I went to bed, I said to her,

'I don't believe what he said tonight,

and I'm going to forget it.

I must have misunderstood him.' "

Someone's summary of JD using 20/20 hindsight to describe vpw...

"Weirwille sought things to validate his position. He did NOT research the word and change his opinion to IT. I becamed pretty good friends with Jim D*0p. He told me that he, Jim, had a ministry where they were sexually loose and an anything goes kinda group out in California. Weirwille flew out there, telling folks it was to talk with Jim about the Bible and witness or something to him. Jim told me Weirwille flew out there to LEARN from Jimmy about the free sex thinking. Weirwille said he always believed sex should be free and allowed with as many as you feel you want to be with -- but could NEVER prove it from the Bible. He was there to see if Jimmy could prove it was okay via scripture.

D0*p never really could and was more of a hippie minister than a sexual pervert looking for Biblical validation.

Weirwille had these concepts, notions, urges, illnesses and tried to find a way to SELL them to us. He was not about to CHANGE his thinking according to scripture. He was not a researcher. He was similar to a lot of cult leaders. He had an idea and looked for people who would buy into it. Like Charlie Manson."

One of the corps grads on vpw teaching the corps when the rest of us weren't looking....

"He also told a small group at Emporia one night to teach their children about their bodies, "you can brush their nipple with your hand and show them how it hardens. You can show them not to be ashamed of their body reactions" Then he shared about the African Tribe where the Father broke the hymen of the daughters to get them experienced in sex to prepare them for marriage -- he thought it to be beautiful.

VPW had already let me see his dark side. Sitting there I thought OH MY GOD, this is subtle but

he is teaching this group that it is beautiful to teach your daughters how to have sex, it is just not accepted in our culture!

He was standing behind his sex problems and setting us up to have sex with our godly "family" as well as the earthly one."

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Intresting stuff for sure...gives a glimpse into the mind and motivations of Wierwille.

One of the underlying themes of the hippies was "do your own thing"...Wierwille. on the other hand, was a control freak who stroked his own ego by controlling and manipulating other people. What Wierwille did to Jimmy Doop and Steve Heefner was criminal and immoral...he stepped in and took control of their ministerial work and just loved the idea of all those young hippie girls that he could sexually seduce...

...the guy was a shameless pervert.

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Um,

I agree,

but I'm really hoping for some discussion on connecting-the-dots.

I mean, that's some of the pieces right there.

What's the order they fit in?

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Well, after the Holocaust thread, I think we have established that there is at least ONE die hard conspiracy theorist in our midst. :wink2:

I DO have something pertinent to add, but can't do it tonight. :)

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WordWolf

“…but I'm really hoping for some discussion on connecting-the-dots.

I mean, that's some of the pieces right there.

What's the order they fit in?”

WordWolf, the first time I read your post I thought of that same phrase “connecting-the-dots” used by the media and security agencies in reference to discovering the trail of covert plans of the terrorists after 9/11. I don’t think VPW had the intellectual capacity to mastermind anything – I think his modus operandi was to take the path of least resistance in pursuit of sex, power and glory…But I don’t mean to put words in your wolf – did you mean it more like showing a connection with the counter-culture trends and their influence on VPW? That would be interesting – sort of a timeline thing like you did with The Way: Living in Wonderland.

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WordWolf, the first time I read your post I thought of that same phrase “connecting-the-dots” used by the media and security agencies in reference to discovering the trail of covert plans of the terrorists after 9/11. I don’t think VPW had the intellectual capacity to mastermind anything – I think his modus operandi was to take the path of least resistance in pursuit of sex, power and glory…But I don’t mean to put words in your wolf – did you mean it more like showing a connection with the counter-culture trends and their influence on VPW? That would be interesting – sort of a timeline thing like you did with The Way: Living in Wonderland.

Right-

I meant it more in the sense of trying to pin down what was counter-culture

in the sense of "flower power" and so on,

what was counter-culture in the sense of conspiracy theorists

and acting on their ideas,

and what was just some pervs trying to save a buck,

and in what percentages.

I don't remember a substantial discussion on this particular subject so far.

If we could GET a timeline eventually, that would be grand,

but if not, any coherent picture is bound to be handy,

and useful to SOMEONE-

remember, we STILL get new people here, who never knew what's considered

common knowledge on this board.

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Suggest you synopsize the following threads:

For a good connection (which is more likely to be a tangental, fellow-traveller connection than anything else), the reader should probably refer to these threads, which have discussed the topic ad nauseum:

As for the subject matter expert on that topic, I think that Sunesis.is about the foremost expert on TWI's involvement with this movement.

To repeat, Sunesis is probably your best resource on the subject.

For a hoot, you can check out the Loose Change thread over in 'tacks. TWI and VPW are not the only conspiracy theory mongers out there...

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For those who are really interested, Political Research Associates has a really good, detailed article that deals with Conspiracy Theories on their website, The Public Eye. The piece is called, Dynamics of Bigotry. (Caveat: this is a left-of-center website and I don't agree with their editorial position in general. This quality piece shows the truth of the concept of pointing out the speck in my eye while ignoring the 4X4 sticking out of your own. But the piece hyperlinked stil has a lot of value).

An interesting quote from the piece cited above:

In highlighting conspiracist allegation as a form of scapegoating, it is important to remember the following:

  • All conspiracist theories start with a grain of truth, which is then transmogrified with hyperbole and filtered through pre-existing myth and prejudice,

  • People who believe conspiracist allegations sometimes act on those irrational beliefs, which has concrete consequences in the real world,

  • Conspiracist thinking and scapegoating are symptoms, not causes, of underlying societal frictions, and as such are perilous to ignore,

  • Scapegoating and conspiracist allegations are tools that can be used by cynical leaders to mobilize a mass following,

  • Supremacist and fascist organizers use conspiracist theories as a relatively less-threatening entry point in making contact with potential recruits,

  • Even when conspiracist theories do not center on Jews, people of color, or other scapegoated groups, they create an environment where racism, anti-Semitism, and other forms of prejudice and oppression can flourish.

Skeptic Wiki and Wikipedia both also have detailed pieces on the subject.

But with any of the above, caveat emptor!

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I think that Wierwille was attracted to the counterculture of the 60's because it, like him, had rejected the mainstream establishment. Wierwille had rejected the established order of denomination Christianity while the hippies had rejected the established order of society as a whole.

The main difference of course, were the motivations. The hippies were idealistic while Wierwille had hidden motives. While he was involved with denominational Christianity, Wierwille was "middle management" within a large hierarchy...he had to answer to those above him and his ego was not allowed to flourish as he desired. His departure from the denomination allowed him to become the self proclaimed MOG and stand at the top as the authoritative leader.

Within the counter culture, Wierwille found fertile ground in which to recruit. The hippies were young and impressionable (gullible)...His discovery of the "Jesus people" with Heefner and Doop was an open door for him to merge his ambitions with the hippies. He played them like a fine violin, using his bait and switch tactics and luring them into his fold.

I'm not sure that the counter culture of the 60's influenced Wierwille all that much...he simply recognized them as a "mark" in which to pull his con...and of course he also recognized the potential for getting laid. (The established order of the denominations frowned upon his extra curricular sexual activities while the hippies took it in stride with their "free love" background)...The hippie movement was to Wierwille what children were to PT Barnum...He found his audience.

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The hippie movement was to Wierwille what children were to PT Barnum...He found his audience.

Worthy of the Gems section. :eusa_clap::eusa_clap::eusa_clap:

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On 8/1/2006 at 12:41 PM, WordWolf said:

"This movement was inspired by authors like Friedrich Nietzsche, Goethe, Hermann Hesse (Siddhartha), and Eduard Baltzer, who wrote about how modern man’s material yearnings were taking us away from our balance with nature and leading to spiritual and physical diseases. Thousands of young Germans turned their backs on modern society and sought a return to nature and the pagan spiritual life of their ancestors.

"With their emphasis on Free Love, hippies promoted many of the same counterculture beliefs that found early expresssion in the Beat Generation. Both Beats and Hippies advocated for legal and societal acceptance of most forms of consensual sexual expression outside the traditional bounds of marriage and procreation, with the notable exception of sex with children."

"In fact, hippie domestic life seemed largely to default to traditional gender roles, with women doing most of the work -- cooking, cleaning, child care, etc. -- while the men engaged in creative, artistic pursuits. "

From the "characteristics" section, I found this...

"# Free love, including open relationships and most consensual forms of sexual expression, except sex with children. Traditional legal constructs and religious teachings that prohibited non-procreative sex outside the bounds of marriage were widely flouted--premarital sex, extramarital sex, bisexuality and homosexuality. (See also: Sexual revolution).

# Communal living

# A fondness for nudity"

"Some feminists of the late 20th century would interpret the free love ethic of the 1960s and 1970s as a manipulative strategy against a women's ability to say no to sex."

"Unrestrained sexuality became a new norm in some of these youth movements, leading certain feminists to critique the 60s/70s "free love" as a way for men to pressure women into sex; women who said "no" could be characterized as prudish and uptight."

===========

Uncle Harry slipping in some German nationalism in his dialogue,

pg-79 of TW:LiL

"

VP always likes things done right, done the way they should be done.

That's why at the Sunday night service everything is checked right up to

snuff. See? Perfect. But that's the way we were brought up years ago.

Our German people were not afraid of work. I guess that stays with you."

Rhoda W, pg-91, TW:LiL

The growth among the young people began after

Dr. Wierwille made his trip to California the winter of 1967-68.

Then they began to come out here. First Steve and Sandi Heefner,

then more and more others.

Things really started speeding up after that. The young people were

mostly hippies-people with long hair. They really took to the

ministry because it made things fit for them."

vpw himself, pg-211, about Dr E.E. Higgins...

""She taught me the great respect and love I have for the

human body-the tenderness of it. She loved the body, like I love

the Word of God. She just stood in awe of how magnificently it was

put together. She rid me of my hang-ups, that false stuff, and

taught me the beauty of the human body. We used to talk about the

human body-where the life was located.""

vpw, pg-231,

on the "Christian hippies" at the House of Acts...

"I went with him. We got there. The women were in the

kitchen: Sandi Heefner, Judy Doop and Ted's wife. It was interesting

because they were mixing up stuff-a big green salad in a bowl,

bread, doing a whole trip.

I don't know how many we had around the table- maybe 16 -and then the

men came home, Steve Heefner and Jimmy Doop. They had just spent

the day witnessing in Haight-Ashbury.

We all had supper together.

The women cleaned the table and all the men yakked.

And finally we got around to the Word. The discussion centered around the Holy Spirit. "

""And I liked especially the tenderness among them. You see,

they themselves had previously been on sex and dope, so they didn't

find fault with everything all the time. They'd hug and kiss each

other and that I liked. They were always affectionate. I saw a lot

that I liked there."

JD, about something that vpw said back IN 1967-1968....

"As we relaxed and had a second drink, he asked Judy and me to describe

what it was like to attend an orgy. We were taken back by the question

and embarassed by it, because even though it was part of our testimony

in our deliverance from sin to God's righteousness, no one had ever

asked us to describe what it was like to go to an orgy.

We found his curiousity shocking.

But we gave him a brief description which is really all we could give him

since our encounter with an orgy had been so brief.

We had attended one orgy sponsored by the San Francisco

Sexual Freedom League, but we were so overwhelmed by the

spectacle that we had left after twenty minutes.

'You know that's all available," V.P. said.

'God put it in I Corinthians 7:1 which He said

"It is good for a man not to touch a woman."

If it wasn't available to have sex outside the marriage

God would have said "best" instead of "good".

I could not believe what I was hearing.

I responded with 'I just thank God that He pulled

our souls out of that pit of debauchery.'

When Judy and I went to bed, I said to her,

'I don't believe what he said tonight,

and I'm going to forget it.

I must have misunderstood him.' "

Someone's summary of JD using 20/20 hindsight to describe vpw...

"Weirwille sought things to validate his position. He did NOT research the word and change his opinion to IT. I becamed pretty good friends with Jim D*0p. He told me that he, Jim, had a ministry where they were sexually loose and an anything goes kinda group out in California. Weirwille flew out there, telling folks it was to talk with Jim about the Bible and witness or something to him. Jim told me Weirwille flew out there to LEARN from Jimmy about the free sex thinking. Weirwille said he always believed sex should be free and allowed with as many as you feel you want to be with -- but could NEVER prove it from the Bible. He was there to see if Jimmy could prove it was okay via scripture.

D0*p never really could and was more of a hippie minister than a sexual pervert looking for Biblical validation.

Weirwille had these concepts, notions, urges, illnesses and tried to find a way to SELL them to us. He was not about to CHANGE his thinking according to scripture. He was not a researcher. He was similar to a lot of cult leaders. He had an idea and looked for people who would buy into it. Like Charlie Manson."

One of the corps grads on vpw teaching the corps when the rest of us weren't looking....

"He also told a small group at Emporia one night to teach their children about their bodies, "you can brush their nipple with your hand and show them how it hardens. You can show them not to be ashamed of their body reactions" Then he shared about the African Tribe where the Father broke the hymen of the daughters to get them experienced in sex to prepare them for marriage -- he thought it to be beautiful.

VPW had already let me see his dark side. Sitting there I thought OH MY GOD, this is subtle but

he is teaching this group that it is beautiful to teach your daughters how to have sex, it is just not accepted in our culture!

He was standing behind his sex problems and setting us up to have sex with our godly "family" as well as the earthly one."

 

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