IMO, the reason so many people have titled responsibilities is to make the organization seem larger and more affluent than it really is. How impressive it must look to outsiders or newbies who know nothing of TWI or its history -- all those names, all those important titles!!!! "Minister" of facilities, U.S.A. operations, finances and International Operations - wow - he must be reallllllly important! And there are 14 members in the president's cabinet! They must have a LOT to manage in order to justify having that many staff to their followers. Hmmm - wonder what their responsibilites are?
Great point, Hope.
Behind closed doors.....I would imagine that the board of directors have discussed the "investment" of keeping an image of growth and, therefore, justified the extra salaried positions. And heck, with some $50 million in assets...........why not?
The cloak of "prevailing" seems to be manageable......at this point. But they'd better be bringing in some youngbloods..........because the older generation isn't going to stay golden forever.
My take is an overinflated sense of grandeur. Minister of Education, Minister of Finance, etc...sounds like Rosie is the Prime Minister and that TWI is its own little pitiful country. I wonder who the Minister of Defense is?
Maybe we could help them out in that regard and move them to the Bikini Islands in the Pacific. Since we did the above-ground H-Bomb testing there, I understand that there aren't any residents anymore. Sounds like the perfect place to set up "TWI-land."
I'd even buy the Kool-Aid for them (kidding, of course)
Does this mean what it looks like it means? Is rosie setting up her geriatric care? Sounds like they are stuck with her till they bury her. What happened to the "five years" and then time for new blood?
It also seems to me that, in addition to watering things down, they are operating from a "wishful thinking" perspective. Surely they aren't getting that many "new people" if they really are getting any new people. From what I understand and hear, it wouldn't be near enough to off-set the "old people" who are waking up and leaving the group.
Looks like she doesnt want a taste of the treatment she gave Mrs W.
And "term limits" was a campaign promise-you don't expect her to tell the TRUTH, do you?
And yes, they're reshuffling the chairs to make it LOOK like there's more people.
Because if they keep SAYING there's more people, some will believe it...
IMO, the reason so many people have titled responsibilities is to make the organization seem larger and more affluent than it really is. How impressive it must look to outsiders or newbies who know nothing of TWI or its history -- all those names, all those important titles!!!! "Minister" of facilities, U.S.A. operations, finances and International Operations - wow - he must be reallllllly important! And there are 14 members in the president's cabinet! They must have a LOT to manage in order to justify having that many staff to their followers. Hmmm - wonder what their responsibilites are?
Gotta justify the budget...
I remember the first year that I got involved in TWI: I was in a twig of over 20 people, a branch of 8 twigs, 8 local branches were grouped into an "Area" (later a "Territory"), there were 7 or 8 Areas in the State. The Region included all of the East Coast from Maine down to DC. Only 8 in the whole country.
The last year that I was involved in TWI I was in a twig that included only seven adults (3 married couples) and their children. There were no other fellowships in the state. Two years before the only Way Corps left the state after running a 2-fellowship "branch" and the Limb. We were included as part of the Limb of Missouri and the Kansas City branch, which was over 3 hours away.
Let's see... 20 x 8 x 8 x 7= 8,960 in the state.
Supposing all of those were "typical." (Average-sized twig, and branch, etc.)
And of course, that was one of the biggest states (NY, vs CA which were about it.)
Later... 7 x1=7 in a state.
My the numbers sure have gone down a bit, haven't they?
"Minister" of facilities, U.S.A. operations, finances and International Operations???
WTF is that all about? Seems like they are using the word "minister" differently these days. In the old days, the word "minister" was used as a verb describing a spiritual impartation towards someone in need, ie: "to minister healing"...but now it's used the same way that a government uses it...it's a "title" now.
...and just exactly what does a "minister of education" do?...sell books?
My thoughts exactly Groucho... Funny that in every third world country I have travelled to a minister is someone who holds a high government position usually acquired through graft, corruption and unethical use of power/money. Odd how TWI now looks like a third world country. Glad I have been gone so long as to not recognize more thana couple of those names.
One more odd thought...the only other Christian organization that appoints leadership for life (that I know of anyway) is the Roman Catholic church...and didn't we always hear that the pope was satan's child or some such snot?!?!?!
Thanks for posting Belle. That was kinda funny....
You asked, "I am still wondering about a pay scale. Anyone know?"
To put it simply, the answer is NO.. The pay scale actually is not based on what title you have, but rather A) What your needs are [The smallest amount to meet those] and B) How long have you been in the Way [The longer you are in a leadership position the more you learn about option C] And option C] being the louder and more noise you can make about being paid less, they will be glad to make you happy as long as you keep quiet [to a reasonable point].
There is 1 exception to the above. If you are the President, and a really good friend of them, you get extra perks! Thus people like Donna, get a lot of extras "under the table", while the rest of staffers and WCs get minimum amount necessary (unless they are in the know of option C]
You got that right Trust and Obey. When I was on staff at H.Q., I did make noises about money, I was getting raises every 3 or 4 months or so. Me and C*r*L Fr**b*rN were the two highest paid single women on staff, and good buddies. A ninth corps woman was a distant third. I know this because I worked in payroll :)
I was nothing special, a little worker bee, but, for some reason J. FW liked me and always got them pushed through. When I left I told a couple of my 7th corps female buddies who were just coming on staff, what to ask for, they were amazed I was getting that much. But CF - she had asked for something like $500 a pay period (this was '82 or 83 mind you). When she got her first check, she went back and said, no, not net, I mean gross - I want $500 gross. She got it - she was the top.
I really believe, if you were friends with J.FW and HA and they both liked you, they were generous. At TWI, so much of it really was, who you knew.
And, oh yes, about those perks. We were always getting notes from people like, DM, saying: I am going shopping tomorrow, please have $500 ready for me. All the nice clothes, toys, motorcyles, cowboy hats and boots - depending what the fad was at the time, never came out of their paychecks. Just send a note to Finance telling how much you wanted and it was waiting for you.
We were always getting notes from people like, DM, saying: I am going shopping tomorrow, please have $500 ready for me. All the nice clothes, toys, motorcyles, cowboy hats and boots - depending what the fad was at the time, never came out of their paychecks. Just send a note to Finance telling how much you wanted and it was waiting for you.
curious... I remember after the POP thing that DM and the singing ladies wore the same few dresses all the time, for every public appearance. was it a sham? did DM still spend money behind the backs of honest people who ABS'd extra because the ministry was existing on a shoestring? or had their budgets truly been cut?
I've got one other reason why they need so many "officers."
When the IRS comes calling, and wants the BOD to justify having such a big overhead, and so many assets, they have to point to some sort of organizational structure that needs money to keep it in place. When the IRS asks, "How many people do these positions support?" the BOD will say, "We don't know, it is our policy to allow people to freely avail themselves for spiritual nurture, and we have no membership."
They have to spend some of that money, in order to keep hold of the vast amount of it.
I've got one other reason why they need so many "officers."
When the IRS comes calling, and wants the BOD to justify having such a big overhead, and so many assets, they have to point to some sort of organizational structure that needs money to keep it in place. When the IRS asks, "How many people do these positions support?" the BOD will say, "We don't know, it is our policy to allow people to freely avail themselves for spiritual nurture, and we have no membership."
They have to spend some of that money, in order to keep hold of the vast amount of it.
Interesting the removing of "power" from many RCs.... Something must be cooking! Divide and conquer they always say.. More than likely not enough work for those who used to be RCs, so instead of being many Limbs, they are being RCs.. Much like when the "Territories" and "Areas" when TWI was big got dwindled into just having Regions, Limbs, and Branches.. Now, it's dwindling further.... Soon, the Regions will only be was "used" to be called Limbs..
Perhaps.........
The reduction of "power" within the Region Coord ranks has something to do with.....1) Less damage control and loss of the rank and file if/when the Region couple cuts their ties with twi and 2) Other field leaders are able to keep a closer eye on each other of "equal status."
In so many ways..........twi-seniority privileges are most prominent at hq. Field assignments are reshuffled every few years to keep allegiance and attachments away from field leaders and directed towards twi......whereas, at hq, its really a corporate structure not a ministry.
I would like to take this opportunity to say thank-you to Mike Anders*n, no. 1 under the prez. cabinet- for marking and avoiding my then fiance and giving me the ultimatum to choose between TWI and him.
I chose him and had 7 years and 17 days of marriage without the influence of TWI.
So, thanks Rev. Anderson, you did me a favor. I didn't think so at the time but I know so now.
If this year’s Director Annual Meeting had had a theme, it would have been “preparing for continuing growth and quality service to God’s people for the future.”
Sam & Jackie Seld*n—KS
OK first this is why Rosalie annoys me, she's a wind bag! Her Themes are longer then the taxonomic nomenclature of animal species.
This is surprising, 1) Sam is still in (15th corps grad) 2) Sam is married (good on ya boy!) 3) Sam is heading up a state. Sam was in my WOW team back in '92-'93, Loved those Mickey's Big Mouths we had a few over the year.
Other wise the Berryh*lls are the only other people I know.
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha bright green bottles they had those in kansas ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha good for guzzling ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
I didn't notice Br@d and Sa11& B@ily on that list. Aren't they still involved? I thought they were promoted and had made the list a few years back after they were LC of AL. I must be behind, anyone know what they are up to? Just curious.
Last I heard, they were Branch or Area coordinators in Cary, North Carolina outside Raleigh. Despite any claims to the contrary, S*lly has a "quarter century" of living proof of her lack of motherly love. Fortunately, her former husband (before Brad) remarried a loving woman who raised the child S*lly abandoned.
Thanks for the update - although my question may have been a bit off topic.
That seemed pretty harsh, her abandonning her child. She had told me that they were actually court ordered to not having any contact with him except for a few occasions until his 18th birthday. That was solely based on the fact that they were in the Way, and that the Way was a cult. Her ex was trying to protect their son.
On the flip side, I am pretty sure the Way told her to not worry about it, since her ex was supposedly out to lunch, since he didn't want any part of the "Truth." And unfortunately, some folks just have to be "put out" of our lives. The Way was trying to protect Sally and the Word moving in the Way, by this explanation of what the Word says on the situation. Weird.
I think it is all very manipulative and a real shame. I never did get that part in the Word about mothers will be against children, and fathers against sons, etc. It seems like tremendous division in the name of unity.
Anyway, it seems like that could be another post to put under the old thread about how the "Way ruined relationships." Very sad. :(
She lied ... the father is a Corps grad, and so is the adopted mother. Very loving people with whom I had Thanksgiving dinner just last evening. Her abandonment followed her having an affair with B**d while she was still married to the child's father.
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skyrider
Great point, Hope.
Behind closed doors.....I would imagine that the board of directors have discussed the "investment" of keeping an image of growth and, therefore, justified the extra salaried positions. And heck, with some $50 million in assets...........why not?
The cloak of "prevailing" seems to be manageable......at this point. But they'd better be bringing in some youngbloods..........because the older generation isn't going to stay golden forever.
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WordWolf
Reminds me of 1984.
The Ministry of Truth ran the propaganda.
The Ministry of Peace ran the war.
The Ministry of Love ran the brainwashing.
The Ministry of Plenty ran the rationing.
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WordWolf
Looks like she doesnt want a taste of the treatment she gave Mrs W.
And "term limits" was a campaign promise-you don't expect her to tell the TRUTH, do you?
And yes, they're reshuffling the chairs to make it LOOK like there's more people.
Because if they keep SAYING there's more people, some will believe it...
Gotta justify the budget...
Let's see... 20 x 8 x 8 x 7= 8,960 in the state.
Supposing all of those were "typical." (Average-sized twig, and branch, etc.)
And of course, that was one of the biggest states (NY, vs CA which were about it.)
Later... 7 x1=7 in a state.
My the numbers sure have gone down a bit, haven't they?
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Tom Strange
I know a couple of them as well!!!
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RumRunner
My thoughts exactly Groucho... Funny that in every third world country I have travelled to a minister is someone who holds a high government position usually acquired through graft, corruption and unethical use of power/money. Odd how TWI now looks like a third world country. Glad I have been gone so long as to not recognize more thana couple of those names.
One more odd thought...the only other Christian organization that appoints leadership for life (that I know of anyway) is the Roman Catholic church...and didn't we always hear that the pope was satan's child or some such snot?!?!?!
Thanks for posting Belle. That was kinda funny....
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TrustAndObey
Lindy,
You asked, "I am still wondering about a pay scale. Anyone know?"
To put it simply, the answer is NO.. The pay scale actually is not based on what title you have, but rather A) What your needs are [The smallest amount to meet those] and B) How long have you been in the Way [The longer you are in a leadership position the more you learn about option C] And option C] being the louder and more noise you can make about being paid less, they will be glad to make you happy as long as you keep quiet [to a reasonable point].
There is 1 exception to the above. If you are the President, and a really good friend of them, you get extra perks! Thus people like Donna, get a lot of extras "under the table", while the rest of staffers and WCs get minimum amount necessary (unless they are in the know of option C]
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Sunesis
You got that right Trust and Obey. When I was on staff at H.Q., I did make noises about money, I was getting raises every 3 or 4 months or so. Me and C*r*L Fr**b*rN were the two highest paid single women on staff, and good buddies. A ninth corps woman was a distant third. I know this because I worked in payroll :)
I was nothing special, a little worker bee, but, for some reason J. FW liked me and always got them pushed through. When I left I told a couple of my 7th corps female buddies who were just coming on staff, what to ask for, they were amazed I was getting that much. But CF - she had asked for something like $500 a pay period (this was '82 or 83 mind you). When she got her first check, she went back and said, no, not net, I mean gross - I want $500 gross. She got it - she was the top.
I really believe, if you were friends with J.FW and HA and they both liked you, they were generous. At TWI, so much of it really was, who you knew.
And, oh yes, about those perks. We were always getting notes from people like, DM, saying: I am going shopping tomorrow, please have $500 ready for me. All the nice clothes, toys, motorcyles, cowboy hats and boots - depending what the fad was at the time, never came out of their paychecks. Just send a note to Finance telling how much you wanted and it was waiting for you.
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potato
curious... I remember after the POP thing that DM and the singing ladies wore the same few dresses all the time, for every public appearance. was it a sham? did DM still spend money behind the backs of honest people who ABS'd extra because the ministry was existing on a shoestring? or had their budgets truly been cut?
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shazdancer
I've got one other reason why they need so many "officers."
When the IRS comes calling, and wants the BOD to justify having such a big overhead, and so many assets, they have to point to some sort of organizational structure that needs money to keep it in place. When the IRS asks, "How many people do these positions support?" the BOD will say, "We don't know, it is our policy to allow people to freely avail themselves for spiritual nurture, and we have no membership."
They have to spend some of that money, in order to keep hold of the vast amount of it.
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washingtonweather
Sunesis - I don't imagine its changed...so sad...that 500 dollars is blood money.
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skyrider
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skyrider
Perhaps.........
The reduction of "power" within the Region Coord ranks has something to do with.....1) Less damage control and loss of the rank and file if/when the Region couple cuts their ties with twi and 2) Other field leaders are able to keep a closer eye on each other of "equal status."
In so many ways..........twi-seniority privileges are most prominent at hq. Field assignments are reshuffled every few years to keep allegiance and attachments away from field leaders and directed towards twi......whereas, at hq, its really a corporate structure not a ministry.
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Hopefull
I would like to take this opportunity to say thank-you to Mike Anders*n, no. 1 under the prez. cabinet- for marking and avoiding my then fiance and giving me the ultimatum to choose between TWI and him.
I chose him and had 7 years and 17 days of marriage without the influence of TWI.
So, thanks Rev. Anderson, you did me a favor. I didn't think so at the time but I know so now.
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potato
funny how many people I ran across in my time with twi who left because of Mike.
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Seth R.
OK first this is why Rosalie annoys me, she's a wind bag! Her Themes are longer then the taxonomic nomenclature of animal species.
This is surprising, 1) Sam is still in (15th corps grad) 2) Sam is married (good on ya boy!) 3) Sam is heading up a state. Sam was in my WOW team back in '92-'93, Loved those Mickey's Big Mouths we had a few over the year.
Other wise the Berryh*lls are the only other people I know.
Seth
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excathedra
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Sami August
I didn't notice Br@d and Sa11& B@ily on that list. Aren't they still involved? I thought they were promoted and had made the list a few years back after they were LC of AL. I must be behind, anyone know what they are up to? Just curious.
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DogLover
Last I heard, they were Branch or Area coordinators in Cary, North Carolina outside Raleigh. Despite any claims to the contrary, S*lly has a "quarter century" of living proof of her lack of motherly love. Fortunately, her former husband (before Brad) remarried a loving woman who raised the child S*lly abandoned.
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Sami August
Hi Doglover,
Thanks for the update - although my question may have been a bit off topic.
That seemed pretty harsh, her abandonning her child. She had told me that they were actually court ordered to not having any contact with him except for a few occasions until his 18th birthday. That was solely based on the fact that they were in the Way, and that the Way was a cult. Her ex was trying to protect their son.
On the flip side, I am pretty sure the Way told her to not worry about it, since her ex was supposedly out to lunch, since he didn't want any part of the "Truth." And unfortunately, some folks just have to be "put out" of our lives. The Way was trying to protect Sally and the Word moving in the Way, by this explanation of what the Word says on the situation. Weird.
I think it is all very manipulative and a real shame. I never did get that part in the Word about mothers will be against children, and fathers against sons, etc. It seems like tremendous division in the name of unity.
Anyway, it seems like that could be another post to put under the old thread about how the "Way ruined relationships." Very sad. :(
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DogLover
Sami,
She lied ... the father is a Corps grad, and so is the adopted mother. Very loving people with whom I had Thanksgiving dinner just last evening. Her abandonment followed her having an affair with B**d while she was still married to the child's father.
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Sami August
That's very interesting.
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