Talk about something that turns PFAL ...

[GarthP2000]

Hey folks,

Remember when Doc Vic taught us that, according to Mendel's Law (or whatever law that he taught that its "everything according to its own kind")? Remember the part in the class where he said according to this, that you can't get a catty-dog or a doggy-cat" because you just cannot mix the 2 genuses?

Here's a story that will make you do a double take. Everything according to its own kind being inviolate, huh?

Catty-dog?

Is this wild, or not? :blink:

Talk about something that yanks Yet Another Plank out of the Creationist platform according to TWI.

Edited November 17, 2006 by GarthP2000

[potato]

without genetic proof, I'm in favor of the inheritance theory. I had a dog and cat who littered at the same time and shared their offspring. between them they co-mothered about 10 offspring and did a darn good job, but.... the ones who survived grew up with strange health issues or retardation, probably from malnourishment :blink:

[GarthP2000]

what about those little puppies who had cat-like claws?

And please don't tell me that they were due to demonic possession please. I dropped that song-and-dance long ago. <_<

[potato]

http://hattrick-dals.home.att.net/newbornnails.jpg

apparently puppies can have quite sharp claws at birth.

[GarthP2000]

ok. Good point.

I guess we'll wait and see what gives here.

[oldiesman]

Could be wrong but I remember reading someplace that dogs and cats were once of the same species of animal, and evolved.

If that is true, then the evolution would have been in the species, not the genus; and if that's the case then maybe that is what makes what happened possible and wouldn't necessarily contradict Wierwille's teaching.

[potato]

I await the genetic results with interest.

[lindyhopper]

One of our local K9 friends around here is the gray fox. It is the only K9 with semi-retractable claws (cat's are retractable) and the only one that can climb trees.

[potato]

and if that's the case then maybe that is what makes what happened possible...

what ALLEGEDLY happened.

[lindyhopper]

Could be wrong but I remember reading someplace that dogs and cats were once of the same species of animal, and evolved.

If that is true, then the evolution would have been in the species, not the genus; and if that's the case then maybe that is what makes what happened possible and wouldn't necessarily contradict Wierwille's teaching.

Actually, OM, all dogs are descendents of wolves. In fact, they come from domesticated wolves, estimated back about 130K years.

Never heard of cats and dogs coming from the same species.

Edited November 17, 2006 by lindyhopper

[shortfuse]

These are fun:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raccoon_Dog

[waysider]

Putting all PFAL references aside for a moment, may I point out that in biological studies there is a theory that is refered to as the "lock and key theory". This theory is based on genetics and has no connection to any biblical references. IMO, VPW simply restated it to serve his purpose.

Elephant +Rhino?------Elephino!

[GarthP2000]

Elephino = Hell if I know? ;)

[Goey]

Hey folks,

Remember when Doc Vic taught us that, according to Mendel's Law (or whatever law that he taught that its "everything according to its own kind")? Remember the part in the class where he said according to this, that you can't get a catty-dog or a doggy-cat" because you just cannot mix the 2 genuses?

Here's a story that will make you do a double take. Everything according to its own kind being inviolate, huh?

Catty-dog?

Is this wild, or not? :blink:

Talk about something that yanks Yet Another Plank out of the Creationist platform according to TWI.

Garth, I think you jumped the gun a bit in your zeal to discredit a VPW teaching. I think VPW got this one basically right.

My guess is that the dog/cat owner is trying to pull off a little scam. The story seems suspicious to me.

Edited November 18, 2006 by Goey

[Radar OReilly]

PLEASE FORGIVE THE DIVERSON:

GOEY!!! I have been thinking of you..........are you well?

Oldies!!!! I have been thinking of you and your sisters............I hope you know I pray for your family daily.

radar

[bliss]

We are talking about this very subject in doctrinal......................except were aren't talking cats and dogs.......it's about the Nephilium that was created when angels(sons of God) cohabitated with female humans (daughters of men).

It is interesting to note that in Genesis God did say, "everything after its kind"............but could it be that He was only referring to ''earthly'' creatures and not ''celestial'' beings??? To take it further, to ''establish'' the best way for all to stay pure? Obviously the Way theory cannot be used for everything!

So if this caty-dog was possible, it probably would have many problems. But, animals do a pretty good job of keeping this in order. *(minus a few wacky dogs I know that love legs.....) :blink:

[Sudo]

Garth,

Aw C'mon.. you know you can't mix the species. Now I had a strange cousin that seemed particularly fond of one of his dogs. But nobody accused him of anything when that dog had puppies even though they appeared a bit odd. Why, I just so happen to have a picture of one of the cute pups!!!

sudo

[WordWolf]

Hey folks,

Remember when Doc Vic taught us that, according to Mendel's Law (or whatever law that he taught that its "everything according to its own kind")?

I remember it clearly.

I was taking Genetics classes during the day and pfal at night in the same semester.

We used the EXACT same chart in both.

For a split second, I thought I'd lost about 12 hours of memory and went straight

from pfal to Genetics class before I woke all the way up.

(I was on a long schedule at the time...)

Remember the part in the class where he said according to this, that you can't get a catty-dog or a doggy-cat" because you just cannot mix the 2 genuses?

Here's a story that will make you do a double take. Everything according to its own kind being inviolate, huh?

Catty-dog?

Is this wild, or not? :blink:

Talk about something that yanks Yet Another Plank out of the Creationist platform according to TWI.

I heard that in the news.

I'm waiting a few days for the whole story to be researched before I'm even BOTHERING.

If somehow it's true, the extra documentation will help convince me.

More likely, this will give them time to debunk it.

Edited November 18, 2006 by WordWolf

[doojable]

Elephino = Hell if I know? ;)

When I was in Houston I was asked my last name:

"Califano"

"You don't know your last name?!!"

I just told you my last name!"

"You said, "Hell-if-I-know!"

I SAID, "CALIFANO!"

LOL!!!!!!

Edited November 18, 2006 by doojable

[johniam]

Remember that Nickelodean cartoon 'Rocko's modern life'? Heffer was raised by wolves. There was a story in the news about a dog/cat offspring in 1971. That turned out to be a hoax and so will this.

[GarthP2000]

Perhaps this is a hoax. Perhaps.

But I read with amusement some of the responses here, particularly coming from the Creationist side.

Not to worry my friends. This won't do neither here nor there in verifying evolution or not. But looking at the whole picture going over the years and decades, evolution seems to be getting more and more evidence pointing its way, and Creationism/'Intelligent' Design seems to be getting less and less.

And the march in that direction is showing no sign of slowing down.

[WordWolf]

Perhaps this is a hoax. Perhaps.

But I read with amusement some of the responses here, particularly coming from the Creationist side.

I'm a Creationist. And my comments were based ENTIRELY on genetics and cold science.

Someone made a claim that seems to violate taxonomic categorization as we know it,

and BLATANTLY so (like someone just jumping off a sidewalk and flying into the sky.)

What does that have to do with Creationism?

Not to worry my friends. This won't do neither here nor there in verifying evolution or not.

If anything, it might WEAKEN the case for evolution, if something could violate

not only species, but genus and so on.

But looking at the whole picture going over the years and decades, evolution seems to be getting more and more evidence pointing its way, and Creationism/'Intelligent' Design seems to be getting less and less.

And the march in that direction is showing no sign of slowing down.

I'd say that's a matter of opinion-I've seen evidence that the basis of evolutionary

thought has already been disproven on a biochemical level. But you're entitled to your

own opinion on things.

I'm curious, though.

Was this entire thread meant as an attempt to give Creationists here "the finger"?

If so, saying "your mother" would have been faster,

and more topical.

Just because your exposure to Mendel's Law was confined to twi does not mean it's either

obscure or unscientific. It's basic genetics, and any properly-educated Darwinist would

have had the same reaction I had.

Just because something was said in pfal is neither a guarantee it is right OR wrong.

[socks]

Aw c'mon Garth. There's gotta be better proof than this, I can't get my dander wrapped around this one, sorry. Granted those look like some extremely cute puppies, cute enough to be kittens. But a story of a woman in Brazil finding some doggies with her cat in a field - are you serious? You're not serious, right? This is a joke. File it next to the "Bowl of Chili Gets the Finger" story, the woman that said she found a finger in her food at a fast food resaurant. Remember that? These people may be well intentioned buuuuuut...

If this turned out to be true, I doubt anyone's going to be running out first thing and yelling "SEE? PFAL was WRONG!" I'd be more concerned about the Pet Shop industry. Any puppy I buy is gonna have to have some serious paperwork. SERious paperwork.

[waysider]

Socks------- To the best of my knowledge, ALL puppies require serious "paper work"!

[krys]

I am astonished that such a story was printed. I'm a creationist as well, but I know too much about the fossil record of certain evolutionary lines....between camels and horses for example....having been forced once in my educational career vto carefully study the evidence and evolution of the horse. (but I digress)

You know - the categories of classification...species, genus, family....they're all man made. I'm sure if the animals and plants knew about it...they'd do more to comply (toothy grin here) And - these classification categories were set long before anybody knew anything about chromosomes at all. It's not the chromosomes that make a thing what it is....it's the whole genome....meaning the total of what all the genes say.

Some parts of chromosomes are known to be "nonsense" no gene there....but we do know genes are on chromomosomes. So what's the difference if someobody has 12 and somebody has 16? Not much necessarily.All the genes fit...maybe they're arranged differently...but they fit.

The gene for hemoglobin is the gene for hemoglobin in Mammals. The gene for heart valves is the gene for heart valves....otherwise how could they use a pig valve to replace one of yours....and they can....and do sometimes...John Wayne had one.

I don't think those puppies are cute, I think they are deformed...at least to my eye. I'm not buying this story - but I'm not yet going to call it a hoax either. I'm gonna wait for the chromosome analysis and see what it shows.